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02-08-2004, 08:03 PM
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#1 (permalink) |
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green
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Politics and religion.... mostly religion
This is an excerpt from TFP chat today. Feel free to add whatever you want on the subject.
[22:00] Paq> USA USA [22:00] KWSN> do they make tux plushes? [22:00] Paq> france sux [22:01] Paq> this republican thing is easy [22:02] * KWSN kills everyone in the prisons, fills them right back up [22:02] KWSN> wow, it is [22:02] * BoCo lowers taxes and gives people more of their own money [22:03] * KWSN does what boco does and then spends 99999999999999999999999999999999999 dollars on the military [22:04] BoCo> cool, now the country is protected [22:04] Paq> 624,000,000,000 actually [22:04] * KWSN then does nothing about the defecit [22:04] Paq> bc it provides stimulus for the economy [22:04] * KWSN then orders some ribs [22:04] *** GakFace has joined #tfp [22:04] *** Cae has joined #tfp [22:04] KWSN> gakfizzle [22:04] * KWSN listens to: Aphex Twin - Flim (128kbps) [0:04/2:57] [22:05] BoCo> lowering taxes totally boosts the economy [22:05] BoCo> people buy more stuff and pay more sales tax at the same time [22:06] KWSN> so does a billions-of-dollars of defecit [22:06] KWSN> right? [22:06] Wren> absolutley [22:07] Wren> I mean who cares if the national will be rising another trillion dollars if we can go to the moon again [22:07] Wren> *debt will be rising [22:07] KWSN> oh of course [22:07] KWSN> because going to the moon has ever so much of a purpose [22:07] Wren> lol [22:07] KWSN> one of these days we're going to fuck up really bad [22:07] Wren> and totally justifies bringing down the hubble telescope [22:07] *** GakBeGone has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 201 seconds) [22:08] KWSN> and somehow manage to destroy the moon [22:08] KWSN> or knock it out of orbit [22:08] KWSN> or something [22:08] *** numist has joined #tfp [22:08] Wren> that would be sick [22:08] Wren> i'd watch that [22:08] *** numist has left #tfp (Leaving) [22:08] Wren> yo numist [22:08] KWSN> heh [22:08] * Cybermike hopes he's alive to see the moon crashing into earth [22:08] BoCo> going to the moon and mars isn't what's important; it's all we learn in getting there that matters [22:08] Cybermike> well.. [22:08] KWSN> we havent learned shit in a while from going to the moon [22:08] BoCo> yeah right [22:08] KWSN> there's no aliens, it's not made of cheese [22:09] KWSN> that's about it [22:09] * Cybermike hope's he's 90 and has lead one hell of a life when the moon crashes into earth [22:09] BoCo> we learned all kinds of shit from 1960s up to the 1990s [22:09] Wren> not really, we don't have enough resources to do anything useful with the knowledge we would gain from going to the moon AGAIN [22:09] BoCo> how do you know? [22:09] KWSN> we learned why the ships have fucked up on the way to the moon [22:09] KWSN> which we were going to because........................? [22:10] Wren> because our technology and economies will not support anything close to the resources we will need for a major spacial installation [22:10] BoCo> you're only against space travel right now because an 'evil, stupid republican' is making the decisions [22:10] Wren> we need to focus on social issues [22:10] *** springrain is now known as springrain|playing [22:10] Wren> and ethics [22:10] KWSN> i'm against space travel right now because it is money going to absolutely nothing right now [22:11] Wren> our technology has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 50 years [22:11] KWSN> if we were spending money to repair the hubble, i'm all for that [22:11] Wren> but as people we have not matured socially or ethically in any appreciable degree [22:11] BoCo> social issues? we'd have no 'issues' to worry about if people were raised by parents with morals, and we got the corrupt lawyers and judges out of the courts [22:11] KWSN> bush will earn a sliver of respect back if he entirely legalizes gay marraige [22:12] Wren> SO WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON THAT [22:12] KWSN> but he's not going to [22:12] Wren> not going to the moon and getting more technology [22:12] KWSN> because he's a stupid fuck [22:12] BoCo> that will earn him zero respect [22:12] BoCo> from me [22:12] BoCo> and all other conservatvies [22:12] KWSN> no shit [22:12] BoCo> and all christians and jews and muslims [22:13] KWSN> all christians jews and muslims. ok. [22:13] KWSN> that's not an off-target generalization at all [22:13] KWSN> religion should have no part in politics first of all [22:13] BoCo> the reason crazy islamists want us dead isn't because of Bush. it's because of shit like gay marriage and those of you who support it [22:14] KWSN> second of all it's fucking no-brainer. one man's views should NOT dictate how people run their lives [22:14] Wren> it's because of 11 year olds dressed up as whores. [22:14] KWSN> yeah, ok, sure boco [22:14] KWSN> so we avoid gay marraige and POOF [22:14] KWSN> no more terrorism! [22:14] BoCo> you people don't even vote, do you? [22:14] Wren> hah [22:14] KWSN> yeah, i do, as a matter of fact [22:14] KWSN> wasn't legal last election unfortunately [22:14] KWSN> i'd have voted for nader or browne [22:14] BoCo> ugh [22:16] BoCo> can't you guys talk about something other than your hate for republicans and religious people? [22:16] Wren> i don't hate religious people [22:16] Wren> i hate fundamentalists [22:16] KWSN> i hate religious extremists [22:16] oberon> i don't hate religious people, but I am an atheist nonetheless. [22:16] BoCo> i was an atheist and it got me nowhere [22:16] KWSN> i hate people who must be faithful to ALL of their religion, including to the totally ludicrous parts that have been phased out by society [22:17] Wren> Many of my religious friends believe in their religion becuase of the values and morals they emphazise [22:17] BoCo> ...phased out by corrupt society [22:17] Wren> right.... [22:17] oberon> heh [22:17] KWSN> society is corrupt because it would like to allow gay marraige? [22:17] BoCo> yes [22:17] oberon> HAHAHAHA [22:17] BoCo> absolutely [22:17] KWSN> wow. [22:17] Wren> and you think republicans will fix our society [22:17] oberon> that's ridiculous, BoCo [22:18] KWSN> yeah boco [22:18] KWSN> it really is [22:18] BoCo> is not [22:18] KWSN> just because it says something in the bible doesnt mean it's right [22:18] Wren> give him a chance to back himself up [22:18] KWSN> and applies to everyone [22:18] oberon> sexual orientation changes nothing [22:18] BoCo> it's also corrupt because of porn, people who value material goods over faith, etc, etc [22:18] oberon> how about bisexual people, BoCo? [22:18] Wren> what is your reasoning behind your belief boco [22:18] Cybermike> isn't eating porn an abomination, like being gay? Pretty sure it says that right in the same paragraph [22:18] KWSN> eating porn? [22:18] KWSN> lol [22:18] Cybermike> pork [22:18] Wren> heh that was a good typo [22:19] KWSN> hahahahah [22:19] Cybermike> lol [22:19] BoCo> everything in the Bible applies to every person who has ever lived or ever will live, whether you want to believe in it or not [22:19] BoCo> just because you disagree with it doesn't mean you're immune to it [22:19] Wren> even the parts that contradict themselves? [22:19] KWSN> it applies to people who actually believe yahweh god came down and said that. [22:19] oberon> haha [22:19] BoCo> nothing contradicts itself [22:19] Wren> i'll fidn a few examples [22:19] KWSN> boco.... you say it as though it is a definite fact. [22:19] Wren> are you jewish or catholic [22:19] Wren> or protestant [22:20] BoCo> i used to believe that, too, until i began reading the Bible [22:20] KWSN> did you actually witness yahweh god come down and say this? [22:20] KWSN> no. [22:20] BoCo> i'm a non-denominational Christian [22:20] KWSN> if you did, fine, it applies to everyone [22:20] Wren> ok [22:20] KWSN> but you didn't [22:20] Cybermike> Jesus abolished many sins of the old testiment.. how do you know he didn't abolish being gay? [22:20] KWSN> so you have know way of knowing the truth of whether it applies or not [22:21] Cybermike> He plowed his field on the sabbath, which was a pretty big sin [22:21] KWSN> the bible is a creation myth as is everything laid down in it [22:21] KWSN> just the same as the greek creation myth [22:21] *** Toecutter has joined #tfp [22:21] oberon> i don't know how you can be a skeptic and a christian at the same time [22:21] BoCo> believe what you want and i'll pray for your souls [22:21] KWSN> do you believe everything was born of chaos and gaea? [22:21] oberon> these are mutually exclusive traits [22:22] KWSN> providing souls are objects at all [22:22] KWSN> if god is truly good as the christians say than why would he punish a skeptic? [22:22] BoCo> as far as Jesus abolishing sins, he didn't do that. you still sin, but unless you have faith in him as your Savior, your sins count against you [22:22] BoCo> skepticism proves you don't really believe [22:23] KWSN> and you have to fully believe to be accepted into his domain? [22:23] BoCo> yup [22:23] KWSN> well if i remember correctly god is forgiving [22:23] BoCo> yes He is [22:23] meff> stop abusing capitalization  [22:24] BoCo> No [22:24] MSD> So if I live my life, do good things, help others, and don't "sin," but I don't go to church or believe in God, then I've wasted my time doing good? [22:24] BoCo> yes [22:24] Paq> yep [22:24] Paq> sorry, you're fucked [22:24] Paq> bend over [22:24] BoCo> you're not judged by what you do, only your faith or lack of it [22:24] Toecutter> boco, you're a christian? [22:24] Paq> 10 foot flaming dick coming in [22:24] Wren> Can I be forgiven for any sin as long as i believe wholeheatedly in god? [22:24] KWSN> and if you've devoted yourself entirely to good for the purpose of religion, and there is no god, haven't you done the same thing? [22:24] MSD> sorry, but I can't see that as anything other than absurd [22:24] Toecutter> of the born again flavor? [22:24] BoCo> yes [22:25] Paq> Umm [22:25] Wren> to who? [22:25] BoCo> yes to Toecutter [22:25] Paq> isnt' religion another way of saying "i can't see that as anything other than absurd" [22:25] Toecutter> and you are in this channel [22:25] Toecutter> you must be a brave soul [22:25] Toecutter> LOL [22:25] KWSN> Ockham's Razor is a bad thing. [22:25] BoCo> yup, i sure am here [22:25] Paq> <-- is going to put boco in office [22:25] meff> im a neopagan but im not even going to introduce my views into a religious war  [22:25] MSD> why, is there something wron gwith christians? [22:25] BoCo> thanks, Paq [22:25] Paq> i'm with meff [22:25] Toecutter> how long have you been saved? [22:25] oberon> heh [22:25] BoCo> i'll send you cutbacks [22:26] * KWSN is an agnostic [22:26] BoCo> about 10 months [22:26] Paq> hmm [22:26] * Cybermike is nostic [22:26] Paq> 40% [22:26] oberon> that coincides with when TFP crashed [22:26] BoCo> yeah [22:26] Toecutter> how did you come to christ? [22:26] * MSD hands Cybermike a "g" [22:26] BoCo> He brought me to Him [22:26] KWSN> i don't think anyone is an atheist entirely [22:26] Cybermike> heh [22:26] * meff sighs [22:27] Toecutter> who brought to whom? [22:27] BoCo> Jesus brought me to Jesus [22:27] oberon> KWSN: well, i'm more of an atheist than an agnostic [22:27] KWSN> boco, you follow ockham's razor, yes? [22:27] Toecutter> "There are no Atheists in foxholes." Some famous person [22:27] Toecutter> LOL [22:27] KWSN> you can't be more one than another, oberon [22:27] Paq> patton [22:27] Toecutter> How so? [22:27] oberon> sure you can [22:27] KWSN> it's black and white [22:28] MSD> in other words, you looked at your life, looked at religion, and decided that it made more sense to believe than to disbelieve [22:28] KWSN> atheist: no god. at all. [22:28] KWSN> agnostic: maybe a god... but probably not. [22:28] Wren> i am existentialist [22:28] Paq> agnostic: can't know true meaning of got [22:28] Paq> god [22:28] Paq> gohd [22:28] Toecutter> There must have been some sort of process to this event? [22:28] Paq> ghod [22:28] Paq> there we are [22:28] oberon> KWSN: it just means I haven't really decided which way it should be [22:28] BoCo> yeah, the process was obvious to me as it was happening [22:28] oberon> s/should be/is/ [22:28] MSD> as long as it makes you happy, it's good [22:28] KWSN> ockham's razor depresses me [22:29] oberon> are you sure that's how it's spelled? [22:29] KWSN> it's ockham or occam [22:29] MSD> i thought it was occam [22:29] meff> occam [22:29] BoCo> ockham is incorrect i think [22:29] oberon> occam sounds better [22:29] KWSN> whichever [22:29] Toecutter> What about this process was obvious to you? [22:29] * KWSN listens to: French Toast - Where Did You Go? (128kbps) [0:04/4:03] [22:29] Toecutter> and what was happening [22:29] KWSN> heh [22:30] KWSN> this person told me the other day that he's an atheist/satanist [22:30] KWSN> what a moron [22:30] BoCo> all of it, Toecutter. want me to write an essay? [22:30] Wren> HAHAHA [22:30] Cybermike> Satan exist but not god heh [22:30] KWSN> yep cyber [22:30] KWSN> amusing [22:30] meff> satan was a sexy bitch [22:30] BoCo> atheists don't believe in Satan; what a dumbass [22:30] KWSN> satan was a lesbian [22:30] KWSN> exactly boco [22:30] KWSN> that's why i was so amused [22:31] KWSN> i asked him if he believed in yin and yang [22:31] Toecutter> This must be very important to you [22:31] KWSN> "what's that?" "where the good can not exist without the evil." "oh... yeah, i'd say so" [22:31] KWSN> makes him even dumber [22:31] BoCo> of course. why else would i sit here and take a verbal beating from porn nuts? [22:31] MSD> some divisions of satanism are non-theistic sects that believe that satan is a state of prersonal enlightenment that is achieved when traditional morals are abandoned in favor of teh pursuit of hedonism and extravagance [22:31] Toecutter> All of it? [22:31] MSD> same name, different belief [22:31] KWSN> yeah ok boco [22:31] * Cybermike isn't a porn nut [22:31] KWSN> we're all complete porn nuts [22:32] KWSN> thanks. [22:32] Toecutter> as you can tell, i am very inquisitive [22:32] KWSN> i find nothing wrong with doing things for pleasure that have no harm to others [22:32] BoCo> i'm a porn nut but i'm not proud of it; actually i prefer just plain nude modelling to porn. porn sucks [22:32] KWSN> such as masturbating [22:32] Toecutter> i like to know how peoples beliefs operate [22:32] Toecutter> and what is important to th em [22:32] Toecutter> thats all [22:33] BoCo> i jerk off all the time; just because you become a Christian doesn't mean you are suddenly perfect or expected to be. Jesus died because we all sin and always will--that's the whole point [22:33] Toecutter> not my place to judge, boco [22:33] Wren> that's quite hypocritical boco [22:33] BoCo> not [22:33] KWSN> so some people giving up sin will somehow help? [22:33] KWSN> no... no i don't think that works [22:33] Toecutter> you are the one who has to live with yourself [22:34] BoCo> is jerking off any different from working a ton of OT to save up for an amplifier i don't need? it's all the same sin. [22:34] Wren> so these gay men you hate on that shouldn't be married are unjustified in their sin but you are in yours? [22:34] Toecutter> you do not have to justify or explain anyting [22:34] BoCo> i don't hate gays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUUUUUUUUUUUCK [22:34] BoCo> i hate what they are doing [22:34] Toecutter> other to than yourself [22:34] Wren> being gay? [22:34] *** macgng has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [22:34] BoCo> yes [22:34] KWSN> so... [22:34] Wren> ... [22:34] KWSN> you hate THEM [22:34] * oberon watches the conversation spiral to chaos with amusement [22:35] BoCo> i hate homosexuality just like i hate rape or murder or stealing [22:35] KWSN> thet is completely contradictory [22:35] BoCo> but i don't hate them, just their actions [22:35] * Cybermike peers over oberon's shoulder [22:35] KWSN> but you don't hate rapists or murderers? [22:35] Toecutter> yep [22:35] BoCo> no [22:35] Toecutter> I do not discriminate [22:35] BoCo> if you smoke weed, i hate the fact you smoke weed, but i don't hate you [22:36] KWSN> but isn't a person defined by their actions? [22:36] Toecutter> i hate everyone the same [22:36] Toecutter> LOL [22:36] BoCo> you can hate one's actions without hating the person [22:36] KWSN> isn't that part of the religion? [22:36] Toecutter> (rimshot) [22:36] BoCo> no [22:36] KWSN> well if god lets people into heaven based on actions.... [22:36] KWSN> doesn't that mean that that is part of the religion? [22:36] BoCo> he doesn't [22:36] KWSN> ok................................ [22:37] Wren> If a homosexual man lusted after other males all his life and fantasiesed being with them but did not act he would be better than other homosexuals? [22:37] BoCo> i alrwady said you're not judged by your actions [22:37] BoCo> no [22:37] BoCo> he still sinned because lust is a sin [22:37] ** ZeroCool has joined #tfp [22:37] ** ChanServ sets mode: +o ZeroCool [22:37] KWSN> ok [22:37] Wren> And you hate everything he thinks about [22:37] KWSN> he sinned [22:37] Wren> other men [22:37] BoCo> all sin is pretty much equal [22:37] KWSN> and that will put him in hell [22:37] KWSN> so he is judged by actions [22:38] BoCo> not having faith in Jesus will put him in hell; that's all [22:38] *** phredgreen changes topic to 'welcome to #mindless_religious_bickering' [22:38] Wren> WOO [22:38] BoCo> thanks, phred [22:38] *** SuperMidget has joined #tfp [22:38] KWSN> boco i think that was aimed at all of us [22:38] *** ubertuber has joined #tfp [22:38] phredgreen> take it to pm, kids [22:38] Wren> i'm trying to get this. would a rapist or murderer ever get into heaven [22:38] KWSN> if that was the point of your comment [22:38] * BoCo doesn't care to argue religion, but won't back down when attacked [22:38] * KWSN is done [22:38] phredgreen> or to the specified channel in the topic [22:38] BoCo> Wren, yes [22:39] * Wren will not bicker anymore ^^^ this is where it got when we stopped. please discuss. i have nothing else to say on the matter... i believe that the above says it all.
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Your arms are broken! |
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02-08-2004, 08:18 PM
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#3 (permalink) | |
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green
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i will admit to exaggeration but we were exaggerating to get our points across... as most people will when they are trying to make a point.
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Your arms are broken! |
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02-08-2004, 08:28 PM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Kiss of Death
Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow
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Boco's stating on you go to hell if you have no faith in Jesus for one. Jesus himself said that there were others not of the "same flock" he never said they were denied heaven.
KSWN's assertation that religion is the hating of Gay's or other sinners. If people were true Christians that wouldn't be the case, judgement belongs to God. Stupid shit like that. Really hard to pick out anything substantial. BTW France does suck and Bush's tax cuts did help revive the economy 
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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition. |
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02-08-2004, 08:34 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
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Three things:
First, you were clearly provoking BoCo and not in a nice way. You were not fair or respectiveful and it's kind of a shame. Second, BoCo is clearly insane, but we all knew that from reading his posts. Thridly, this is a terrible post and will probably be removed by a moderator. I can't help but notice it's brand new (less than fifteen minutes old) which explains why it's still here. All you've done here is made fun of a particular TFP memeber and I'm pretty sure that's against the TFP charter. Now, I can't decide whether I found this conversation amusing or disturbing... |
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02-08-2004, 08:34 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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green
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I didn't say that religion involved hating of gays automatically. I said that that was what BoCo was saying. And I know that judgement belongs to god, and what my belief was was that god tends to judge against sinners, not necessarily hate them or promote hate towards them through beliefs.
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02-08-2004, 08:36 PM
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#7 (permalink) | |
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i asked permission to post this and was not objected to. if moderators would like to remove this thread, please do.
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Your arms are broken! |
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02-08-2004, 11:39 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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If any of the major players in that don't want it posted, I'll remove it.
Otherwise, I don't see a problem from a board rules standpoint.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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02-08-2004, 11:55 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Rawr!
Location: Edmontania
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Ah I love religious/political debate. Everyone has a position, and they want everyone else to adopt their own. Really Gets the blood going!
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"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim |
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02-09-2004, 12:13 AM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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Please, disregard almost anything i said in that chatroom, i was in and out of the convo and most of what i said was from an earlier time in the room
except for the part about bending over...bc really, he's f**ked
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Live. Chris |
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02-09-2004, 12:53 AM
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#11 (permalink) |
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Junkie
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what i find amusing about this is that boco talks about lack of morals and corruption being a problem and evil of society, and then offers paq cutbacks. sounds like following the big "J's" plan to me.
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shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer |
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02-09-2004, 01:12 AM
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#12 (permalink) |
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Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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NOTE:
Just remember y'all, Boco is a member here. So all the rules of courtesy still apply. It isn't like a Bash Bush thread, over in Politics 
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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02-09-2004, 01:19 AM
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#13 (permalink) | |
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green
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Quote:
BoCo, feel free to put in whatever you did not get to say here.
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Your arms are broken! |
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02-09-2004, 08:07 AM
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#15 (permalink) |
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Banned
Location: St. Paul, MN
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Science Project #4986
Materials: An Angry Badger A Stick Directions: Poke badger with stick. Observe response. Honestly, i disagree with what Boco spouts. as i understand him from his journal entries, its more about bravado than Christ. But...y'all probably knew he was fundamentalist before this. if so, there should be no shock or surprise that you didn't care for what he said. |
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02-09-2004, 11:09 PM
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#16 (permalink) | |
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Huzzah for Welcome Week, Much beer shall I imbibe.
Location: UCSB
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Quote:
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I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect. Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum: "Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt." |
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02-14-2004, 05:08 AM
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#17 (permalink) | |
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A Storm Is Coming
Location: The Great White North
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Quote:
Now, isn't this the real paradox of our times? Religious/political debate is about like military intelligence or rap music - kind of oxymoronic! Or perhaps one in the same. You decide.
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If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy. |
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