This is an excerpt from TFP chat today. Feel free to add whatever you want on the subject.
[22:00] Paq> USA USA
[22:00] KWSN> do they make tux plushes?
[22:00] Paq> france sux
[22:01] Paq> this republican thing is easy
[22:02] * KWSN kills everyone in the prisons, fills them right back up
[22:02] KWSN> wow, it is
[22:02] * BoCo lowers taxes and gives people more of their own money
[22:03] * KWSN does what boco does and then spends 99999999999999999999999999999999999 dollars on the military
[22:04] BoCo> cool, now the country is protected
[22:04] Paq> 624,000,000,000 actually
[22:04] * KWSN then does nothing about the defecit
[22:04] Paq> bc it provides stimulus for the economy
[22:04] * KWSN then orders some ribs
[22:04] *** GakFace has joined #tfp
[22:04] *** Cae has joined #tfp
[22:04] KWSN> gakfizzle
[22:04] * KWSN listens to: Aphex Twin - Flim (128kbps) [0:04/2:57]
[22:05] BoCo> lowering taxes totally boosts the economy
[22:05] BoCo> people buy more stuff and pay more sales tax at the same time
[22:06] KWSN> so does a billions-of-dollars of defecit
[22:06] KWSN> right?
[22:06] Wren> absolutley
[22:07] Wren> I mean who cares if the national will be rising another trillion dollars if we can go to the moon again
[22:07] Wren> *debt will be rising
[22:07] KWSN> oh of course
[22:07] KWSN> because going to the moon has ever so much of a purpose
[22:07] Wren> lol
[22:07] KWSN> one of these days we're going to fuck up really bad
[22:07] Wren> and totally justifies bringing down the hubble telescope
[22:07] *** GakBeGone has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 201 seconds)
[22:08] KWSN> and somehow manage to destroy the moon
[22:08] KWSN> or knock it out of orbit
[22:08] KWSN> or something
[22:08] *** numist has joined #tfp
[22:08] Wren> that would be sick
[22:08] Wren> i'd watch that
[22:08] *** numist has left #tfp (Leaving)
[22:08] Wren> yo numist
[22:08] KWSN> heh
[22:08] * Cybermike hopes he's alive to see the moon crashing into earth
[22:08] BoCo> going to the moon and mars isn't what's important; it's all we learn in getting there that matters
[22:08] Cybermike> well..
[22:08] KWSN> we havent learned shit in a while from going to the moon
[22:08] BoCo> yeah right
[22:08] KWSN> there's no aliens, it's not made of cheese
[22:09] KWSN> that's about it
[22:09] * Cybermike hope's he's 90 and has lead one hell of a life when the moon crashes into earth
[22:09] BoCo> we learned all kinds of shit from 1960s up to the 1990s
[22:09] Wren> not really, we don't have enough resources to do anything useful with the knowledge we would gain from going to the moon AGAIN
[22:09] BoCo> how do you know?
[22:09] KWSN> we learned why the ships have fucked up on the way to the moon
[22:09] KWSN> which we were going to because........................?
[22:10] Wren> because our technology and economies will not support anything close to the resources we will need for a major spacial installation
[22:10] BoCo> you're only against space travel right now because an 'evil, stupid republican' is making the decisions
[22:10] Wren> we need to focus on social issues
[22:10] *** springrain is now known as springrain|playing
[22:10] Wren> and ethics
[22:10] KWSN> i'm against space travel right now because it is money going to absolutely nothing right now
[22:11] Wren> our technology has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 50 years
[22:11] KWSN> if we were spending money to repair the hubble, i'm all for that
[22:11] Wren> but as people we have not matured socially or ethically in any appreciable degree
[22:11] BoCo> social issues? we'd have no 'issues' to worry about if people were raised by parents with morals, and we got the corrupt lawyers and judges out of the courts
[22:11] KWSN> bush will earn a sliver of respect back if he entirely legalizes gay marraige
[22:12] Wren> SO WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON THAT
[22:12] KWSN> but he's not going to
[22:12] Wren> not going to the moon and getting more technology
[22:12] KWSN> because he's a stupid fuck
[22:12] BoCo> that will earn him zero respect
[22:12] BoCo> from me
[22:12] BoCo> and all other conservatvies
[22:12] KWSN> no shit
[22:12] BoCo> and all christians and jews and muslims
[22:13] KWSN> all christians jews and muslims. ok.
[22:13] KWSN> that's not an off-target generalization at all
[22:13] KWSN> religion should have no part in politics first of all
[22:13] BoCo> the reason crazy islamists want us dead isn't because of Bush. it's because of shit like gay marriage and those of you who support it
[22:14] KWSN> second of all it's fucking no-brainer. one man's views should NOT dictate how people run their lives
[22:14] Wren> it's because of 11 year olds dressed up as whores.
[22:14] KWSN> yeah, ok, sure boco
[22:14] KWSN> so we avoid gay marraige and POOF
[22:14] KWSN> no more terrorism!
[22:14] BoCo> you people don't even vote, do you?
[22:14] Wren> hah
[22:14] KWSN> yeah, i do, as a matter of fact
[22:14] KWSN> wasn't legal last election unfortunately
[22:14] KWSN> i'd have voted for nader or browne
[22:14] BoCo> ugh
[22:16] BoCo> can't you guys talk about something other than your hate for republicans and religious people?
[22:16] Wren> i don't hate religious people
[22:16] Wren> i hate fundamentalists
[22:16] KWSN> i hate religious extremists
[22:16] oberon> i don't hate religious people, but I am an atheist nonetheless.
[22:16] BoCo> i was an atheist and it got me nowhere
[22:16] KWSN> i hate people who must be faithful to ALL of their religion, including to the totally ludicrous parts that have been phased out by society
[22:17] Wren> Many of my religious friends believe in their religion becuase of the values and morals they emphazise
[22:17] BoCo> ...phased out by corrupt society
[22:17] Wren> right....
[22:17] oberon> heh
[22:17] KWSN> society is corrupt because it would like to allow gay marraige?
[22:17] BoCo> yes
[22:17] oberon> HAHAHAHA
[22:17] BoCo> absolutely
[22:17] KWSN> wow.
[22:17] Wren> and you think republicans will fix our society
[22:17] oberon> that's ridiculous, BoCo
[22:18] KWSN> yeah boco
[22:18] KWSN> it really is
[22:18] BoCo> is not
[22:18] KWSN> just because it says something in the bible doesnt mean it's right
[22:18] Wren> give him a chance to back himself up
[22:18] KWSN> and applies to everyone
[22:18] oberon> sexual orientation changes nothing
[22:18] BoCo> it's also corrupt because of porn, people who value material goods over faith, etc, etc
[22:18] oberon> how about bisexual people, BoCo?
[22:18] Wren> what is your reasoning behind your belief boco
[22:18] Cybermike> isn't eating porn an abomination, like being gay? Pretty sure it says that right in the same paragraph
[22:18] KWSN> eating porn?
[22:18] KWSN> lol
[22:18] Cybermike> pork
[22:18] Wren> heh that was a good typo
[22:19] KWSN> hahahahah
[22:19] Cybermike> lol
[22:19] BoCo> everything in the Bible applies to every person who has ever lived or ever will live, whether you want to believe in it or not
[22:19] BoCo> just because you disagree with it doesn't mean you're immune to it
[22:19] Wren> even the parts that contradict themselves?
[22:19] KWSN> it applies to people who actually believe yahweh god came down and said that.
[22:19] oberon> haha
[22:19] BoCo> nothing contradicts itself
[22:19] Wren> i'll fidn a few examples
[22:19] KWSN> boco.... you say it as though it is a definite fact.
[22:19] Wren> are you jewish or catholic
[22:19] Wren> or protestant
[22:20] BoCo> i used to believe that, too, until i began reading the Bible
[22:20] KWSN> did you actually witness yahweh god come down and say this?
[22:20] KWSN> no.
[22:20] BoCo> i'm a non-denominational Christian
[22:20] KWSN> if you did, fine, it applies to everyone
[22:20] Wren> ok
[22:20] KWSN> but you didn't
[22:20] Cybermike> Jesus abolished many sins of the old testiment.. how do you know he didn't abolish being gay?
[22:20] KWSN> so you have know way of knowing the truth of whether it applies or not
[22:21] Cybermike> He plowed his field on the sabbath, which was a pretty big sin
[22:21] KWSN> the bible is a creation myth as is everything laid down in it
[22:21] KWSN> just the same as the greek creation myth
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[22:21] oberon> i don't know how you can be a skeptic and a christian at the same time
[22:21] BoCo> believe what you want and i'll pray for your souls
[22:21] KWSN> do you believe everything was born of chaos and gaea?
[22:21] oberon> these are mutually exclusive traits
[22:22] KWSN> providing souls are objects at all
[22:22] KWSN> if god is truly good as the christians say than why would he punish a skeptic?
[22:22] BoCo> as far as Jesus abolishing sins, he didn't do that. you still sin, but unless you have faith in him as your Savior, your sins count against you
[22:22] BoCo> skepticism proves you don't really believe
[22:23] KWSN> and you have to fully believe to be accepted into his domain?
[22:23] BoCo> yup
[22:23] KWSN> well if i remember correctly god is forgiving
[22:23] BoCo> yes He is
[22:23] meff> stop abusing capitalization
[22:24] BoCo> No
[22:24] MSD> So if I live my life, do good things, help others, and don't "sin," but I don't go to church or believe in God, then I've wasted my time doing good?
[22:24] BoCo> yes
[22:24] Paq> yep
[22:24] Paq> sorry, you're fucked
[22:24] Paq> bend over
[22:24] BoCo> you're not judged by what you do, only your faith or lack of it
[22:24] Toecutter> boco, you're a christian?
[22:24] Paq> 10 foot flaming dick coming in
[22:24] Wren> Can I be forgiven for any sin as long as i believe wholeheatedly in god?
[22:24] KWSN> and if you've devoted yourself entirely to good for the purpose of religion, and there is no god, haven't you done the same thing?
[22:24] MSD> sorry, but I can't see that as anything other than absurd
[22:24] Toecutter> of the born again flavor?
[22:24] BoCo> yes
[22:25] Paq> Umm
[22:25] Wren> to who?
[22:25] BoCo> yes to Toecutter
[22:25] Paq> isnt' religion another way of saying "i can't see that as anything other than absurd"
[22:25] Toecutter> and you are in this channel
[22:25] Toecutter> you must be a brave soul
[22:25] Toecutter> LOL
[22:25] KWSN> Ockham's Razor is a bad thing.
[22:25] BoCo> yup, i sure am here
[22:25] Paq> <-- is going to put boco in office
[22:25] meff> im a neopagan but im not even going to introduce my views into a religious war
[22:25] MSD> why, is there something wron gwith christians?
[22:25] BoCo> thanks, Paq
[22:25] Paq> i'm with meff
[22:25] Toecutter> how long have you been saved?
[22:25] oberon> heh
[22:25] BoCo> i'll send you cutbacks
[22:26] * KWSN is an agnostic
[22:26] BoCo> about 10 months
[22:26] Paq> hmm
[22:26] * Cybermike is nostic
[22:26] Paq> 40%
[22:26] oberon> that coincides with when TFP crashed
[22:26] BoCo> yeah
[22:26] Toecutter> how did you come to christ?
[22:26] * MSD hands Cybermike a "g"
[22:26] BoCo> He brought me to Him
[22:26] KWSN> i don't think anyone is an atheist entirely
[22:26] Cybermike> heh
[22:26] * meff sighs
[22:27] Toecutter> who brought to whom?
[22:27] BoCo> Jesus brought me to Jesus
[22:27] oberon> KWSN: well, i'm more of an atheist than an agnostic
[22:27] KWSN> boco, you follow ockham's razor, yes?
[22:27] Toecutter> "There are no Atheists in foxholes." Some famous person
[22:27] Toecutter> LOL
[22:27] KWSN> you can't be more one than another, oberon
[22:27] Paq> patton
[22:27] Toecutter> How so?
[22:27] oberon> sure you can
[22:27] KWSN> it's black and white
[22:28] MSD> in other words, you looked at your life, looked at religion, and decided that it made more sense to believe than to disbelieve
[22:28] KWSN> atheist: no god. at all.
[22:28] KWSN> agnostic: maybe a god... but probably not.
[22:28] Wren> i am existentialist
[22:28] Paq> agnostic: can't know true meaning of got
[22:28] Paq> god
[22:28] Paq> gohd
[22:28] Toecutter> There must have been some sort of process to this event?
[22:28] Paq> ghod
[22:28] Paq> there we are
[22:28] oberon> KWSN: it just means I haven't really decided which way it should be
[22:28] BoCo> yeah, the process was obvious to me as it was happening
[22:28] oberon> s/should be/is/
[22:28] MSD> as long as it makes you happy, it's good
[22:28] KWSN> ockham's razor depresses me
[22:29] oberon> are you sure that's how it's spelled?
[22:29] KWSN> it's ockham or occam
[22:29] MSD> i thought it was occam
[22:29] meff> occam
[22:29] BoCo> ockham is incorrect i think
[22:29] oberon> occam sounds better
[22:29] KWSN> whichever
[22:29] Toecutter> What about this process was obvious to you?
[22:29] * KWSN listens to: French Toast - Where Did You Go? (128kbps) [0:04/4:03]
[22:29] Toecutter> and what was happening
[22:29] KWSN> heh
[22:30] KWSN> this person told me the other day that he's an atheist/satanist
[22:30] KWSN> what a moron
[22:30] BoCo> all of it, Toecutter. want me to write an essay?
[22:30] Wren> HAHAHA
[22:30] Cybermike> Satan exist but not god heh
[22:30] KWSN> yep cyber
[22:30] KWSN> amusing
[22:30] meff> satan was a sexy bitch
[22:30] BoCo> atheists don't believe in Satan; what a dumbass
[22:30] KWSN> satan was a lesbian
[22:30] KWSN> exactly boco
[22:30] KWSN> that's why i was so amused
[22:31] KWSN> i asked him if he believed in yin and yang
[22:31] Toecutter> This must be very important to you
[22:31] KWSN> "what's that?" "where the good can not exist without the evil." "oh... yeah, i'd say so"
[22:31] KWSN> makes him even dumber
[22:31] BoCo> of course. why else would i sit here and take a verbal beating from porn nuts?
[22:31] MSD> some divisions of satanism are non-theistic sects that believe that satan is a state of prersonal enlightenment that is achieved when traditional morals are abandoned in favor of teh pursuit of hedonism and extravagance
[22:31] Toecutter> All of it?
[22:31] MSD> same name, different belief
[22:31] KWSN> yeah ok boco
[22:31] * Cybermike isn't a porn nut
[22:31] KWSN> we're all complete porn nuts
[22:32] KWSN> thanks.
[22:32] Toecutter> as you can tell, i am very inquisitive
[22:32] KWSN> i find nothing wrong with doing things for pleasure that have no harm to others
[22:32] BoCo> i'm a porn nut but i'm not proud of it; actually i prefer just plain nude modelling to porn. porn sucks
[22:32] KWSN> such as masturbating
[22:32] Toecutter> i like to know how peoples beliefs operate
[22:32] Toecutter> and what is important to th em
[22:32] Toecutter> thats all
[22:33] BoCo> i jerk off all the time; just because you become a Christian doesn't mean you are suddenly perfect or expected to be. Jesus died because we all sin and always will--that's the whole point
[22:33] Toecutter> not my place to judge, boco
[22:33] Wren> that's quite hypocritical boco
[22:33] BoCo> not
[22:33] KWSN> so some people giving up sin will somehow help?
[22:33] KWSN> no... no i don't think that works
[22:33] Toecutter> you are the one who has to live with yourself
[22:34] BoCo> is jerking off any different from working a ton of OT to save up for an amplifier i don't need? it's all the same sin.
[22:34] Wren> so these gay men you hate on that shouldn't be married are unjustified in their sin but you are in yours?
[22:34] Toecutter> you do not have to justify or explain anyting
[22:34] BoCo> i don't hate gays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUUUUUUUUUUUCK
[22:34] BoCo> i hate what they are doing
[22:34] Toecutter> other to than yourself
[22:34] Wren> being gay?
[22:34] *** macgng has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[22:34] BoCo> yes
[22:34] KWSN> so...
[22:34] Wren> ...
[22:34] KWSN> you hate THEM
[22:34] * oberon watches the conversation spiral to chaos with amusement
[22:35] BoCo> i hate homosexuality just like i hate rape or murder or stealing
[22:35] KWSN> thet is completely contradictory
[22:35] BoCo> but i don't hate them, just their actions
[22:35] * Cybermike peers over oberon's shoulder
[22:35] KWSN> but you don't hate rapists or murderers?
[22:35] Toecutter> yep
[22:35] BoCo> no
[22:35] Toecutter> I do not discriminate
[22:35] BoCo> if you smoke weed, i hate the fact you smoke weed, but i don't hate you
[22:36] KWSN> but isn't a person defined by their actions?
[22:36] Toecutter> i hate everyone the same
[22:36] Toecutter> LOL
[22:36] BoCo> you can hate one's actions without hating the person
[22:36] KWSN> isn't that part of the religion?
[22:36] Toecutter> (rimshot)
[22:36] BoCo> no
[22:36] KWSN> well if god lets people into heaven based on actions....
[22:36] KWSN> doesn't that mean that that is part of the religion?
[22:36] BoCo> he doesn't
[22:36] KWSN> ok................................
[22:37] Wren> If a homosexual man lusted after other males all his life and fantasiesed being with them but did not act he would be better than other homosexuals?
[22:37] BoCo> i alrwady said you're not judged by your actions
[22:37] BoCo> no
[22:37] BoCo> he still sinned because lust is a sin
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[22:37] ** ChanServ sets mode: +o ZeroCool
[22:37] KWSN> ok
[22:37] Wren> And you hate everything he thinks about
[22:37] KWSN> he sinned
[22:37] Wren> other men
[22:37] BoCo> all sin is pretty much equal
[22:37] KWSN> and that will put him in hell
[22:37] KWSN> so he is judged by actions
[22:38] BoCo> not having faith in Jesus will put him in hell; that's all
[22:38] *** phredgreen changes topic to 'welcome to #mindless_religious_bickering'
[22:38] Wren> WOO
[22:38] BoCo> thanks, phred
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[22:38] KWSN> boco i think that was aimed at all of us
[22:38] *** ubertuber has joined #tfp
[22:38] phredgreen> take it to pm, kids
[22:38] Wren> i'm trying to get this. would a rapist or murderer ever get into heaven
[22:38] KWSN> if that was the point of your comment
[22:38] * BoCo doesn't care to argue religion, but won't back down when attacked
[22:38] * KWSN is done
[22:38] phredgreen> or to the specified channel in the topic
[22:38] BoCo> Wren, yes
[22:39] * Wren will not bicker anymore
^^^ this is where it got when we stopped. please discuss. i have nothing else to say on the matter... i believe that the above says it all.