The quest for Money and Power - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

BentNotTwisted · 01-29-2004, 11:35 PM

I've never understood other peoples drive to acquire money and power over others. This has been in my thoughts lately because of the Democratic primaries. You have a half dozen or so people driving themselves and others to extremes just to become the leader of the free world and take on all the stress and pressure the job brings. Why would someone want that?

One of my first jobs in the computer industry was working as an entry level tech. The network manager that I reported to was nice enough, until she turned 30. Then she became, pardon my expression, a bitch on wheels. Nothing was ever good enough for her, no matter how hard I tried. It was nearly 6 months after her 30th birthday that I found out why. Apparently the woman had a goal of making a million dollars by her 30th birthday. Since she hadn't achieved that goal she decided to make herself and everyone else around her miserable. This makes no sense to me.

In my career I have strived for better positions with more responsibility (and money) according to my skills. I have tried to live within my means and when I didn't I suffered the consequences. It never occurred to me to be come a workaholic just so I could have a bigger house or a fancier car. Can anyone explain why some people are so driven to acquire the almight dollar or gain power over more and more people?

fnaqzna · 01-29-2004, 11:36 PM

Easy answer... they want to get laid.

BentNotTwisted · 01-29-2004, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fnaqzna
Easy answer... they want to get laid.

Yeah, but who would want to sleep w/ Gdubbya?

KellyC · 01-30-2004, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BentNotTwisted
Yeah, but who would want to sleep w/ Gdubbya?

His...Wife?

goateebird · 01-30-2004, 08:41 PM

When it comes to power, one might feel that they have the tools necessary to lead people in the right direction, and so they feel obligated to become leaders. For example, if you're a better basketball player than the others, it would make sense for you to be the captain of the basketball team, especially if you are also charismatic, wise, kind, etc.

With that in mind, maybe the problem with some power-grabbers is that they are overly cocky; they think they are better qualified, and so they are more fit to be in a position of power.

This isn't really something I've thought about a lot, I just came up with this now on the spur of the moment, so please point out any flaws/holes in my position.

As for those who are greedy for money, perhaps it's just a feeling of insecurity, that money could possibly fill. I'm a lot less sure about this one.

sexymama · 01-30-2004, 08:52 PM

My ex wanted money because he was afraid of poverty. He felt that to have money, you had to have power. He has neither.

I'm happy with what I have. I work hard to provide for my family. I am a natural leader and I use my skills when I can -- but not for power -- for service.

powerclown · 01-30-2004, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Can anyone explain why some people are so driven to acquire the almight dollar or gain power over more and more people?

I say it's because its hardwired into every human being to have a desire to want to dominate/manipulate/control someone or something - either overtly (masculine) or covertly (feminine) - as much as it is to want to control oneself.

The Holy Trinity of Civilization: Power, Sex & Money.

Johnny Rotten · 01-30-2004, 11:28 PM

Is has a lot to do with the values instilled in you, or drilled into you, by your parents or whatever authority had the most effect on you during your formative years, in my opinion. I also think that those who are the most driven to acquire money and power are usually the most insecure and paranoid as well. Some people are driven to advance up the ladder just because it's there.

Unfortunately, they generally do not make good leaders--they tend to crack the whip and make everyone work harder until a problem is solved, through sheer force. They are hated because they will use your energy to propel themselves higher by taking the credit for project after brutal project.

You'd think this type of person would just burn out by the age of thirty, but it's the thrill of the chase that gives them go power on a daily basis. They are true predators, and acquisition junkies. They have an almost elemental disdain for individuals even subtly below them in status, and a soul-battering fear of those who are, or even might be, above them.

Externally, they exude confidence and sociability, but inside that head, the clockwork is always, always moving.

Rodney · 01-31-2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Rotten
Is has a lot to do with the values instilled in you, or drilled into you, by your parents or whatever authority had the most effect on you during your formative years, in my opinion. I also think that those who are the most driven to acquire money and power are usually the most insecure and paranoid as well. Some people are driven to advance up the ladder just because it's there.

Unfortunately, they generally do not make good leaders--they tend to crack the whip and make everyone work harder until a problem is solved, through sheer force. They are hated because they will use your energy to propel themselves higher by taking the credit for project after brutal project.

You'd think this type of person would just burn out by the age of thirty, but it's the thrill of the chase that gives them go power on a daily basis. They are true predators, and acquisition junkies. They have an almost elemental disdain for individuals even subtly below them in status, and a soul-battering fear of those who are, or even might be, above them.

Externally, they exude confidence and sociability, but inside that head, the clockwork is always, always moving.

Boy, you've worked in high tech, haven't you? I've seen a lot of these guys -- marketing guys, product managers -- always proposing some crack-brained project that isn't really sound but that they think will impress the senior VP, at the cost of several months of 80-hour weeks for the peons. The thing, these guys think that if you're not a predator like them, you're nothing and are basically there to be taken advantage of.

As to why? Who knows? I've tried to figure out a number of power-seeking, money-seeking bosses in my day, and I've had a number of different theories about different people:

1) They're following the script somebody gave 'em. They've been told they're nothing unless they're on top, as children and teenagers. And they believe it. This is basically what Mr. Rotten says.

2) Bad boundaries. These are the guys who basically believe that the world belongs to them and should automatically work the way they want it to. Tend to be abusive, because when you don't do the thing they wanted (and they're often really bad at making it clear), they're royally pissed. Because you're supposed to KNOW.

3) Psycho. I worked with a marketing guy who was just out there, crazy, into winning every deal, getting every piece of cash, laying every woman, having the biggest house, no matter what, at all costs. Kept a gun in his desk, too, and once threatened to draw it on me. And people who knew him told me that he'd been this real, buttoned-down, shy management type at one point until he'd taken a job with some Reno-based casino entertainment outfit and run into lot of high-rolling, hard-knuckled gamblers and remade himself with a total personality change overnight. This is a guy who would sell out anybody, anything, for personal advantage. I googled him a couple of months ago, he's now president of a fairly large tech company.

And there are others. But the key ingredient is that they feel that other people are basically unimportant. And in our current iteration of capitalism, where the quarterly bottom line tends to trump all other considerations, these guys thrive.

01-31-2004, 05:13 PM

How we've been raised and what we're taught: Survival of the Fittest.
Bleh- I just want to be myself, strive to be the best parent, wife, and person- not worrying about succeeding in money, fame, or power. That is worthless stuff to me. Love isn't.

BentNotTwisted · 02-01-2004, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodney
1) They're following the script somebody gave 'em. They've been told they're nothing unless they're on top, as children and teenagers. And they believe it. This is basically what Mr. Rotten says.

Yeah, I know guys like this. One of them had a sign on his desk that said 'If you're not the lead dog the view never changes.' All that sign makes me think is the owner believes everyone plays follow the leader. There are plenty of us willing to strike out on our own and not give a crap about what others think.

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodney
2) Bad boundaries. These are the guys who basically believe that the world belongs to them and should automatically work the way they want it to. Tend to be abusive, because when you don't do the thing they wanted (and they're often really bad at making it clear), they're royally pissed. Because you're supposed to KNOW.

It's called entitlement. My ex-wife had it. She believed she could have anything she wanted because she deserved it, whether we had the money or not. Unfortunately I see this trait in lots of other people I have met as well. As the character George Costanza in Seinfeld used to say 'We're living in a society!' These people just don't understand that concept.

Thanks for the great examples Rodney.

MojoRisin · 02-02-2004, 11:40 PM

Life is the will to power, and nothing besides. - Nietzsche

01-29-2004, 11:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
BentNotTwisted Optimistic Skeptic Location: Midway between a Beehive and Centennial	The quest for Money and Power I've never understood other peoples drive to acquire money and power over others. This has been in my thoughts lately because of the Democratic primaries. You have a half dozen or so people driving themselves and others to extremes just to become the leader of the free world and take on all the stress and pressure the job brings. Why would someone want that? One of my first jobs in the computer industry was working as an entry level tech. The network manager that I reported to was nice enough, until she turned 30. Then she became, pardon my expression, a bitch on wheels. Nothing was ever good enough for her, no matter how hard I tried. It was nearly 6 months after her 30th birthday that I found out why. Apparently the woman had a goal of making a million dollars by her 30th birthday. Since she hadn't achieved that goal she decided to make herself and everyone else around her miserable. This makes no sense to me. In my career I have strived for better positions with more responsibility (and money) according to my skills. I have tried to live within my means and when I didn't I suffered the consequences. It never occurred to me to be come a workaholic just so I could have a bigger house or a fancier car. Can anyone explain why some people are so driven to acquire the almight dollar or gain power over more and more people? __________________ IS THAT IT ???!!! Do you even know what 'it' is? When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

01-30-2004, 08:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
sexymama My own person -- his by choice Location: Lebell's arms	My ex wanted money because he was afraid of poverty. He felt that to have money, you had to have power. He has neither. I'm happy with what I have. I work hard to provide for my family. I am a natural leader and I use my skills when I can -- but not for power -- for service. __________________ If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.

02-02-2004, 11:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
MojoRisin Crazy Location: Just got into town about an hour ago.	Life is the will to power, and nothing besides. - Nietzsche __________________ Dropping a barbell he points to the sky and says "The suns not yellow, It's chicken!"

01-29-2004, 11:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
fnaqzna Meat Popsicle Location: Left Coast	Easy answer... they want to get laid.

01-30-2004, 08:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
goateebird Tilted Location: NC	When it comes to power, one might feel that they have the tools necessary to lead people in the right direction, and so they feel obligated to become leaders. For example, if you're a better basketball player than the others, it would make sense for you to be the captain of the basketball team, especially if you are also charismatic, wise, kind, etc. With that in mind, maybe the problem with some power-grabbers is that they are overly cocky; they think they are better qualified, and so they are more fit to be in a position of power. This isn't really something I've thought about a lot, I just came up with this now on the spur of the moment, so please point out any flaws/holes in my position. As for those who are greedy for money, perhaps it's just a feeling of insecurity, that money could possibly fill. I'm a lot less sure about this one.

01-30-2004, 11:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Johnny Rotten lost and found Location: Berkeley	Is has a lot to do with the values instilled in you, or drilled into you, by your parents or whatever authority had the most effect on you during your formative years, in my opinion. I also think that those who are the most driven to acquire money and power are usually the most insecure and paranoid as well. Some people are driven to advance up the ladder just because it's there. Unfortunately, they generally do not make good leaders--they tend to crack the whip and make everyone work harder until a problem is solved, through sheer force. They are hated because they will use your energy to propel themselves higher by taking the credit for project after brutal project. You'd think this type of person would just burn out by the age of thirty, but it's the thrill of the chase that gives them go power on a daily basis. They are true predators, and acquisition junkies. They have an almost elemental disdain for individuals even subtly below them in status, and a soul-battering fear of those who are, or even might be, above them. Externally, they exude confidence and sociability, but inside that head, the clockwork is always, always moving.

01-31-2004, 05:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
:::OshnSoul::: Guest	How we've been raised and what we're taught: Survival of the Fittest. Bleh- I just want to be myself, strive to be the best parent, wife, and person- not worrying about succeeding in money, fame, or power. That is worthless stuff to me. Love isn't.