onionmon

If we define God to be a being of infinite power, ability, and intellegence, a being that can do anything according to his will, then we can also show that an advanced species from somewhere (another dimension, whatever) with superior technologies can be God.

They high advanced techs can make anything out of nothing, create things that we can't even dream of creating, and think of things that we can even comprehend. (Think startrek-ish.)

How do we tell the difference between God and this advanced species?

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Yes sir!

I'm Dutch-Irish...
...I'm from Iowa!

Mantus

God as a concept is generally defined as the Supreme Being. Which translates to the greatest being in the universe...whatever that is.

If an alien species just happens to be the Supreme Being then obviously they would qualify as God. Though we prefer to believe that any being, which is Supreme would be greater then simply a supper human, even though ironically that is the only way we can understand such a concept.

Another problem with the Supreme Being concept is that even if we came in contact with such a being, we would immediately imagine a being, which is greater then it, hence debunking it from its title. Hmm...thats the first time ive ever though of that. Thanks onionmon

chavos

what matters to me, is not the theological titling: Most High, All Powerful...etc...

What matters is that God is the one who has acted in human history and my life to redeem creation. If anyone or thing started doing what God does...then you can talk about splitting the title. in short, action and idenity are important, not power or majesty.

Yakk

There are science fiction stories based off this very idea.

http://www.sfwriter.com/excg.htm

The book isn't bad, and contains a significant number of neat ideas.

Basically, imagine if you could prove that the universe is cyclic, and that in the previous incarnation of the universe some "being" built and designed this cycle of the universe, with the goal of creating intelligent life.

Which leads to interesting questions, like "why", "how", and is this "god" still doing it?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Aurthur C Clark.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

tiberry

"... a being of infinite power, ability, and intellegence, a being that can do anything according to his will..."

Is it so hard to imagine humans as such a species? Sure, you can present an obvious counter-argument such as "Can you create a star like the sun?" I'd however, answer - "Yes." Then of course, you'd ask me to prove it. Then when I could (or would) not; you'd label me a liar or a fraud.

The point is, man (humans) can 'do' anything there will allows them too. Just think about that for a moment. We 'create' new realities on a daily basis. Maybe not the scale of creating a star from 'thin-air'; but could early man travel to the moon? Even these examples are too simple to even begin to describe the potential of the mind.

"If you have but the faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains".

Stop limiting yourself by your thinking. Stop 'believing' that you are 'lesser than god' or even apart from god. Overcome your fear of responsibility...its YOU who's responsible for your life, not god or anyone else. People cling to the notion of god as some supreme being that lives "somewhere" and chooses to act or not act because it gives them an out. It allows them to always have 'someone else to blame', or 'someone else to thank'.

I'm not saying that there is not a god, or god doesn't exist. EVERYTHING (even things you cannot see, hear, taste, smell, measure, or even conceive of) is god. Including you. There is nothing that is not god and there is no degree of 'godness'. All of god is perfect and equal in magnificance.

I'm not asking you to believe me. You already know I'm right. Whether or not you choose to accept it is up to you. Read the bible or study your religion while keeping this thought in the forefront of your mind. I'll bet that where you previously sensed inconsistencies, or possible 'errors' you'll now understand what the *real* meaning is. Even "life" in general. Measure or look at life through these goggles I've given you. Or if you prefer, think of it as a frame to a jig-saw puzzle. Tell me that the pieces don't now fall into place.

Its up to you.

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My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

tiberry

Yakk -

You should check out this thread:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=39145

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My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

onionmon

tiberry -- you got some really great thoughts. put alot of new ideas in my mind and reinforced alot of my own that i have already accepted. thanks.

sry i dunno how to make those quotes

"The point is, man (humans) can 'do' anything there will allows them too. Just think about that for a moment. We 'create' new realities on a daily basis. Maybe not the scale of creating a star from 'thin-air'; but could early man travel to the moon? Even these examples are too simple to even begin to describe the potential of the mind."

very well said.
thanks again

__________________
Simmons! I want you to poison Grif's next meal!
Yes sir!

I'm Dutch-Irish...
...I'm from Iowa!

tiberry

See onionmon? We only have to remember the truth.

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My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

MazdaspeedZOOM

What is the turth, I still don't see the scientific evidence that God exists to begin with.

:::OshnSoul:::

We think God as a Being- a Him or a Her- a Superior Being that we cannot see, but wonder "His form".
God is but Energy which binds us, holds us together, moves us.
Scientists have drawn recent conclusions that show energy as space and energy as time...same thing. They also found that energy makes up 90% of an object- and humans. The energy force is so strong, moving so fast, that it makes *material* objects.
I don't see God as a Being-not superior to me or anyone/anything else. I see God as the Force within and all around us.
I just posted this in daily thoughts:
"......For my ally in the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you...me...the tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that ship!"
-Yoda (Empire Strikes Back)

GOD created US in the image & likeness of him. We are but energy divided up- in which we call Souls- and this human body we see before us is merely matter- a costume, per say.

We could say that We are our own Gods.

Mojo_PeiPei

I always get a kick when people say ridiculous stuff like this. You are placing the burden of revelation of a divine and infinite being on a science of man that is not only flawed, but also limited to what we understand. Not to mention that we here as humans on earth, our science and technology is basically built off of what 500, 600 years of thought? You are placing 500 or 600 years of thought on something that is greater then time. And with that having been said, say there isn't a god, the universe is said to be 4 billion years old, we don't even know that, there are verying accounts... fact is everything is relative and science knows dick in the grand scheme of everything... at least as far as our understanding is.

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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Yakk

The sad sad part is, every other source of knowledge is far far far smaller and less reliable than science.

That is what science basically is, a means we have picked up that generates reliable information about the world.

And with all due respect, "you know it is already true" has been shown time and time again to be very unreliable. It is a neat way to get a fuzzy feeling, so keep playing with it, but don't expect to find truth from feeling fuzzy.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

:::OshnSoul:::

I think Scientists are amazing and I have much respect for them, in general, because of how they theorize. They know that there is a 50/50 chance their first theory could not work. They know that a hypothesis may come up differently as they first thought- but they keep redoing tests and hypotheses until they come up with a solid answer.
Basically- 1: they don't give up, 2: they believe in any possibility
3: they take their time 4: They are not out to prove something, they are out to discover it.

Scientists have the more open minds than many of us do.

They have seen that Energy Flow is in and around everything.

But- to find proof as a human when it comes to the Truth is impossible. Has it happened yet? No. Therefore, it will never be.
How about this- you come to a situation, theory, idea- and ask, "does it work for me? Does it make me feel good?" then conclude your Truth from the answer. That is Your Truth. We all have our own- and that's fine- because, afterall, we've been given Free Will.

Stiltzkin

Have you played Xenogears? If you haven't, play it. You may not find answers, but at least you will find the story infinitely interesting

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The most important thing in this world is love.

Rodney

I think some of us are smart enough to know that , if we're shown something that we can't understand, that doesn't mean that the only explanation is a miracle. Arthur Clarke once said something like, "A sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic."

Of course, there would be those -- mayb e even the majority -- who would look at the kind of aliens you describe and declare their divinity. But a goodly chunk of us would simply be wondering how the hell they do that. Plus, we've got a lot of memes in our culture -- examples like well-known science fiction plots and movies -- that tell the tale, over and over, that godlike beings aren't necessarily gods.

:::OshnSoul:::

We all have the answers within us, I mean, cmon, we aren't using 98% of our brains- put them to work by applying your Soul "feelings" to your thoughts on this and it will begin to expand the mind.
"open-mindedness" means you use more of your brain to accept and know many things and that all things are possible.
Humans are born into a closed-minded world where most of us are taught that there is a superior being and that we are less superior and that we can't do or be like that superior being, when there are plenty of people do what we call "magic" or the "unexplainable"- moving an object with our minds, psychic powers, touching fire and not being burned, etc. It's all in the mind. Think beyond.....and imagine.