ChrisJericho

I was just wondering why people believe in still believe in gods.

Also, if you could include your level of education and what you studied in college that would be great.

__________________
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

chavos

Why? Too long to really explain here....but i suppose the short version is that i've come to beleive that what i sense by reason, emotion, ethics, and experience through reflection and community is real, as real as anything else i've sensed.

Currently a Junior in college, majors in Religious Studies and History. Planning on Div school afterwards.

Rodney

Well, I'm not going to argue with Chavos -- got some real cred there. But I think that there are multiple reasons. And I would say that it least some of it is built-in. When you're in trouble and someone else comes along and says, "I'll stand with you as you deal with this problem," do you feel better? Of course. And with that support you keep going through hard times rather than giving up or turning back.

For some people, belief in a god helps the same way: when times are tough, it's easy to give up and turn back. But belief in a god that will somehow help them or support them gives them the strength to continue. And really, a great many problems in life are resolved eventually if the person just keeps on keeping on, through the pain to the other side. Without support, it's hard to do that. With support -- especially from faith in a caring god -- it's easier.

So, that's one reason for some people. I'd say that there maybe be as many reasons for believing in God as there are people on this earth.

Sho Nuff

Excellent insight Rodney. There are 3 main reasons that many religion appeals to many people:

Fear/ Insecurity - The fear of going to hell is a lot greater than the fear of being wrong. It’s just easier on the psyche. It is also good to have something to rely on in tough times, something to make you feel that everything will be ok. It is often a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Megalomania - Being a servant of an all-powerful god makes you a master of the universe in many ways. To believe that you are one of the creators chosen followers and have exclusive access to the truth is a rush.

Indoctrination - Many people are raised in the church and it is the filter for their life. Leaving the church at age 20 was the most frightening experience of my life. I can’t imagine feeling more alone. Not only had I lost my schema for the entire world, but also I was distanced from most of my friends and family. The church was my home and the center of my social life. It’s hard to give that up.

I have a Bachelors in Business Admin, Marketing and Finance, but I think your implication that religious people may be primarily uneducated is way off base. Many of the most well educated and intelligent people I have ever met are deeply religious even though often in their educational lives, science and belief come into conflict.

__________________
I know Nietzsche doesnt rhyme with peachy, but you sound like a pretentious prick when you correct me.

CSflim

some people need a god to give their lives meaning.

__________________

Peetster

Are you asking why some people believe in gods as in polytheism, or religion in general? Two very different questions.

asaris

For a variety of reasons; myself personally, because I believe it to be true, which I believe for a variety of reasons. I have a Master's Degree in Philosophy and am currently a Master's student in German.

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

filtherton

You say "still" as if somehow we should be beyond that at this point. Faith is a vital part of any perspective because no one can ever predict with perfect accuracy what is going to happen to you when you get out of bed every day. People still believe in god because there is no conclusive evidence that they shouldn't. People will believe in god until science can prove without a shadow of a doubt that god doesn't exist(good luck). Even then some will still believe in a god just as some still believe the vikings will make it to the playoffs this year.

irateplatypus

the way you posed the question implies so many things that a person who believes in God would probably never agree with.

you said...

"I was just wondering why people believe in still believe in gods."

what has happened recently that would have ruled that out for them? the majority of theists in the world (Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Jewish etc.) believe in a God (or gods) that exists without any reliance on scientific data for confirmation of his existence. so, from that perspective, we aren't any closer to *knowing* if God exists. your question really becomes mute for the majority theists. i realize that this question wasn't necessarily posed to theists only, but it does frame the argument in a way that i think is ill-fitting.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

CandleInTheDark

We should be beyond faith. We can get beyond faith.

An excellent article by Martin Willett, on faith and why we should get past it.

__________________
Where there is doubt there is freedom.

lordjeebus

Although I do not believe in God or Gods, such belief can be a useful hermeneutic device for understanding the spiritual world which we cannot observe directly.

I am defining spiritual world as that which exists beyond space, time, energy, and mass.

Of course I cannot prove the existance of a spiritual world, and my point is not to debate whether or not there is such a reality. Such debate is futile.

But I think it is certainly possible that there are planes of existence beyond what our minds can conceptualize and observe. Because we cannot directly conceptualize and observe them, those that have a spiritual aspect to their paradigms require a symbolic method to understand them. For some, the "god concept" is what does that.

krwlz

I do not believe in god, but I think a better question would be is... Why dont you believe in god.

Most people cant give a cohesive answer.

thebpem

I don't believe in god. I have faith in science.
Seeking BS in Chemistry

orphen

Well, i tend to agree with Pascal's argument. In Pascal's "Wager" he essentially logically point out the reason to believe in God.

if you draw a table
If you believe in God and there is God: infinite happiness
If you believe in God and there is no God: Temporal (finite) suffering
If you don't believe in God and there is God: Eternal (infinite) suffering (ie. hell)
If you don't believe in God and there is not God: Temporal (finite happiness)

so in conclusion, as a wager, it's better to bet on believeing in God because you have a chance to have infinite happiness and if you lose, all you get is finite suffering. but if you don't believe in god, you get either eternal suffering or temporal happiness. if you add it all up, it's worthit to believe in God

wilbjammin

I hate Pascal's wager... Its just a fear tool used to make you feel like you have to believe in God. I could go on and on about this, but I'm too tired to right now, and I don't have any of my good quotes with me to help back up my claims. If you're going to believe in God, do it for other reasons than duress.

__________________
Innominate.

filtherton

God and science rule two seperate realms. Until science can tell me conclusively what happens after i die, or how long the universe has existed in any form theism and science can coexist peacefully.

Mantus

There is actually a huge conflict there. During the Renaissance, the Christian church made it a deal with science that it should hold responsibility for matters of the soul and the afterlife. Metaphysics has been separated from the sciences ever since. As a result very little research has ever been done in the field and the scientists who do seek answers in this realm are often regarded as quacks and have very little attention paid to their research.

Congobongo

because some people have faith

__________________
i break for dinosaurs

raeanna74

The human makeup is such that we cannot do without faith. Without faith we give up and there is no reason to pursue anything. I have faith that I can give me daughter a decent education. I have faith that if I keep working I can pay off my debts. People have faith that humans will learn from their mistakes. Citizens have faith in the law of the land to protect them. Now if you are talking about faith in a supreme being - there is no reason in the world that you have that is suffient to convince me that I'm better of believe that this world is completely caotic and a result of chance. You cannot convince me that there will be no ultimate punishment whether it be carma, reincarnation, or hell for the deeds of those who so disrespect other humans as to torture or kill them without regret. Faith in a supreme being or God is necessary to most humans and will always be. It's the fountations of most cultures and cultural traditions. It's not going away its just too ingrained.

We have to have faith in something be it relgion, science, or ourselves. I prefer not to have ultimate faith in myself because I know I make mistakes.

Bachelor of Science in Elementary Education with Minor in Bible.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Mantus

There are two definitions for faith. The faith in a daughter's education, paying off debts (and having a secure retirement), and faith that humanity will learn and evolve from its mistake are all rational faiths. With such faith one is aware that result is not certain. Yet the choice is made to pursue the goal anyways in hope of attaining the result.

The other flavor of faith is blind faith. Blind faith postulates that the result is certain. Therefore if the goal is pursued, it is not a matter of hope, but a matter of certainty that it will be attained.

Saying that one cannot convince you of your conclusion that there is no such thing as chance creation/existence or the non-existence of ultimate punishment; make me presume that you have blind faith on this matter. Another words you are certain of this knowledge. Yet I do not believe that you are an irrational or dogmatic person. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you are saying that you are not convinced by the alternatives to your religious beliefs and therefore do not wish to accept them as truth.

Therefore if you were in fact a rational person then I would assume that you have rational faith in the existence of god and god’s creation of the universe, as the knowledge is uncertain.

When it comes to the subject of metaphysics most people simply feel the need to take sides in the arguments. In such a case they simply pick a side and have faith that it is correct. Other people, like myself, do not chose sides readily but rather choose to have faith in neither argument until one is proven correct.

Blind faith is not as common as some atheist would have you think. If it were then we would still be living on a flat world, as all scientific discoveries would have been dismissed. Yet it does occur and when it does it is the greatest abomination to all humanity because blind faith is the anti-thesis of though and knowledge. For blind faith does not allow one to question nor to allow other possibilities to come into play.

filtherton

Is there such thing as blind antifaith?

nanofever

scepticism / rationality

__________________
I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect.

Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

Mantus

I don’t think that antifaith is the correct term for it.

Certainly one can have faith that a result will not occur. If it is rational then one hopes that a result does not occur. If faith is blind then one is certain that a result will not occur. Though such thoughts are obviously synonymous with their positives. For example: if one has hope for a desired result then it is clear that one also has hope that the alternatives do not happen. If one has blind faith in a result then one has blind faith that the alternative cannot happen.

If on the other hand you are referring to antifaith as a term for the blind faith in the non-existence of god, then I can assure you that it does exist. Though the term used is rather poor because religion does not have a monopoly on faith.

Mind you am I making up these definition as I go along…though they seem to fit so far.

MSD

People are afraid of freedom. If handed absolute freedom, most people would not know what to do with it. The belief that an omniscient being is watching them gives them an excuse to restrict their actions.

Belief in God is fear of freedom (I came up with that before X-files. Damn you, Chris Carter)

pazza

it gives people a framework by which they can live their lives, believing it will ultimately lead to a reward if they follow it. It could also give people an easy way out, so they can say god created me so i have no choice in how i live.

__________________
The above thoughts are not necessarily the thoughts of this user.

nanofever

I had a funny kind of realization last night, why not believe that when you die you go to a wonderful carnival in the sky. In this carnival in the sky everyone is happy and all things are great and everyone is happy there, even bad people.

I mean a wonderful carnival in the sky that everyone is invited to is about as rational as anything else...

__________________
I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect.

Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

prosequence

Same reason I believe in gravity..... it exists.

__________________
And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

taliendo

I have spent quite bit of time searching for the truth; it is a part of my very essence, as I grew up in a pseudo-religious family and then continued my studies in both eastern and western philosophy/theology. The truth that I have found is that there is a diety, and a unity among mankind. It makes logical sense, and it rings true to my spirit.

I am a senior in an undergrad studies program of english literature. (although I think that this has no bearing on anything at all)

__________________
-LIFE IS ABSURD-

The Geek

I'm not sure if I do still believe in a god. Most religious ideas seem like utter nonsense to me any more, and I was raised Catholic. But still, there are a couple things here and there that have kept me from going completely athiest. Just things that seem like they can't be just coincidence.

I have a Master's in accounting, for your educational inquiry

SVT01Cobra

I'm not very avid religiously, but I do believe in a God.

Simply because I like to have faith, not fear or insecurity, or any of that, just that I like to believe there is something else after death.

tecoyah

Humans still believe in "Gods" because.....they need to. Like it or not, most people cant survive without the crutch under an arm.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

SVT01Cobra

You're comparing God, THE God, to a crutch??

Oh you're going to hell for that one!!

tecoyah

svt01, If your god really wants me to burn eternally for that statement....I not only pity the ignorance(of your god and you) ,but would honestly prefer the company of your made up anti god in the afterlife. Please dont attempt to "save" me,I prefer an open mind.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

filtherton

I think you could change the whole focus, but not the gist of this thread by inserting "The Green Bay Packers" wherever you find the word religion and "Brett Farve" wherever you find the word god.

SVT01Cobra

Someone can't tell sarcasm very well.

prosequence

Hehe... so much for an open mind.

__________________
And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

dragon2fire

yes

so am i then


o well



what a great god that sends good people to hell because they dont belive in him


yea thats a god i want to follow

GakFace

I'm sorry but I find this "debate" a little fucked up. First off you guys are stating reasons why people must believe in god. If you don't believe yourself, then who the hell are you to state why others believe. Lots of people don't believe just because they grew up to it. Yes they might when they were younger, but there comes a time when everyone evaluation their faith... thus this reason is BS. I have yet to see this one. As for the fear? Yeah I suppose that one could be a working one... but if many people only believe because they are scared... don't you think many of them would just try to figure out God's existance so they can hopefully ignore it or find a loophole? That seems more logical to me. I have yet to see a christian that acts the way they do because they are scared of God. They are happy with they live their life, not scared shitless. Megalomania? Yeah, I can see this one happening, I won't disagree with that. The fact that its a main reason though, I will disagree with. That sounds more like the assholes that also believe in God. "I have a god, you don't, so FUCK YOU" kinda thing... not everyone has that belief.. I'd put that much lower than a top three.

Another thing, whats this "I don't believe in God I believe is science" Or "Rationalism is Anti-Religion." Now I'm sorry, but I believe is Science, Rational, and God. OOOOOOH did you catch that? all fucking three. It IS possible you know. For this being a philosophy board I figured this would be a given, something even I remember discussing in philosophy course.

God = No Freedom? Maybe to some, but not to all. I have freedom to do whatever the hell I want. My life is good. I don't want to live it any other way, even IF God did not exist. He doesn't restrict what I do.. luckily for me, I just prefer to help people than to screw them over.

Faith? Why do we still have faith? Faith != christianity. Some have faith is science, some have faith in God, some have faith in their car that it wont' break down on the interstate when its -40 degrees outside. I don't think Fait is the word you really want to go for.

Oh, um Tecoyah? Yeah you say people NEED God? Who the hell are to make such a bold statement as this? You don't even believe. If you think SOME people NEED God.. then my apology, but you didn't so you just generalized all believers as someone that HAS TO have a God. Sorry but thats very very wrong. Also if you state that people NEED a god, and you don't seem the slightest bit willing to change your mind... you don't have that open mind you think you do.

Dragon2Fire, we have an entire life as "proving grounds" to live in a life of harmony without all that greedy bullshit we see here. Thats why its here and not there. I mean think about it.. if someone doesn't give a rat's ass about you, why would you invite them to your house? Think about that, I don't invite people over if I don't care for them, or if I hate them... Why can't a God do the same thing.. Is it not possible for a God to care too? Besides, the funny thing is this. You are stating God is evil as he sends people to hell. So you are saying you don't believe in God, yet you do believe that he sends people to hell. How does that make sense? Figure that out a bit more, he doesn't just send people to hell of the whim. I personally don't think that many people go to hell. IF you're a good person, you still have a chance to that harmony of which I speak. God is like the master poker player, he's had the time to look at us and just KNOW if we're lying or not. When we die and get judged, he'll KNOW if you honestly are good and want to be up there with him or if you don't. This doesn't mean ignore God until you die.. as I'm sure he'd see that too. But there are people who don't believe cause it just doesn't make sense or doesn't seem plausable. I think that when they get judged they still can be "saved." I put that in quotes for a reason, I'm sure you can understand why. Also I am going to be a bit redundent with this but... You don't want to follow a god who doesn't invite people into his land that don't like him..... just as you don't seem to want to follow him as is sounds like you don't like him. So your reasons to not like him are very similiar to his reasons to not let people into heaven... Kinda weird, is it not?

As for me? I was born and raised Catholic, and then I took time to look upon my faith and analyze it. I still very much believe in God, but not for any of the reasons I saw stated here by the non believers. Personally, aside from it making sense, much like the response "Because it exists.... just like gravity".. there is also this. I have gone through too much in my life for me to NOT believe. To not believe would be to ignore everything I have witnessed. I can tell you some of the things I have witnessed, and if you honestly are not willing even willing to believe me(or at least leave your mind open to it being possible), then you'll just see me as insane. If that is to be the case, then so be it. You don't have to believe me, but you should take a more open mind before judging me to be an insane lunatic. I was one of the main people going to get the Paranoia boards started. So that I would have a place to express many of the things that I witnessed. Personal Experience is a reason why people believe in God. (maybe not all, but its my reason for one, and I haven't seen a single non believer state this one) I am a Junior in College, majoring in Psychology. I am probably going to take a minor in Computer Science and Anthropology.

I would also like to point something out. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the people on this board who do believe in God don't make us shitty excuses as to why people don't believe... Yet many of the people who don't believe are making up some rather crude responses for anyone that does?

__________________
RoboBlaster:
Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

dragon2fire

no what i am saying is acrroding to orgainze christaniy you only go to heavn if you are a christian and to me that is fucked up


you make my point for me if there is a god and i am a good person i sould go to heavn but what i am saying is thats not how the bible puts it


the bible says that if you dont belive in god you go to hell and i am sorry but thats worng


if there is agod like that i want nothing to do with him


now if god as you claim does let good people into heavn weather they belive in him or not well then that is a good god

GakFace

Yeah.. I was thinking that was more along what you thought. We've talked about this before.. but I must have just read it wrong every time... Yeah, I think one should be able to get to heaven on good merits alone. But I still think there is the chance for ultimate "redemtion" so to speak at judgement.

But we have to remember, what happens right after we die.. we don't really know.. so who knows how we'll feel...

__________________
RoboBlaster:
Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.