Do you associate human intelligence to your pet? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

krwlz · 04-30-2003, 05:17 PM

Yea i associate human inteligence, and i think my dog is really smart, (sometimes he just gets that creepy look in his eye, where you kno something is going on in there) but bottom line, they cant reason/rationalize...the biggest step between animal and human.

phoenix1002 · 04-30-2003, 05:17 PM

I believe that animals are "intelligent" and have personalities. They are not humans, though, so saying that they are stupid because they cannot do things that humans can do is not a good comparison. Ask anyone with a pet, and they will tell you that their animals all act differently to certain situations. I have one cat that is very agressive in a fight, until he thinks he's losing, at which point he becomes a chicken. My other cat is always chicken, but is always a lapcat. They both were brought up under the same conditions, too, so that doesn't explain it.

in·tel·li·gence

the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations

my cat was missing for about 2 months. He definitely had to deal with new or trying situations.

the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria

Many animals manipulate their environment- cats, birds, fish, dogs, etc...

The capacity to know or understand; readiness of comprehension; the intellect, as a gift or an endowment

some primates can understand and speak in sign language.

Knowledge imparted or acquired, whether by study, research, or experience; general information

My friend had two dogs, one older than the other. The older dog they trained certain things. The younger dog they did not have to train, because the older dog taught the younger one the 'rules'

I can think of examples for every aspect of that definition of 'intelligence' that describes the actions of animals.

Atropos4 · 04-30-2003, 05:34 PM

When Elephants Weep: The Emotional Lives of Animals
by Susan McCarthy, Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson

I read that book a while ago...It is very factual....Check it out...
I believe my pets are intelligent ...of course some more than others and they all have feelings ....my mind will never be changed about this.....

greytone · 04-30-2003, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GakFace
WhoaitsZ: GakFace.. not GadFace

What? Birds don't communicate? Bees don't say where to find food? You need to remember that the HUMAN language is not the ONLY language. One does not need to be VOCAL to communicate... Sign Language says enough. So it is a FACT that animals communicate and thus have a language, thus.. Animals are NOT dumb.

Intelligence -- The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
Ya know? That is precisly it. You guys keep saying, they aren't smart, they just learn things and apply it.. um.. yeah and that is intelligence.

Sixate: Everything is from Humans... Maybe now, but how did we first try to fly? We mimic'd the birds... I bet if you go back archaeologically, you might find out that we learned things from the animals. But more importantly, you state that animals just copy things... Hmm thats what we do.. We learn things..and then do those... You said when you can see a cat shoot hoops then you'll say its intelligent.. Did you learn how to shoot hoops by copying someone? Hmm you just copied, by that definition, you're not that intelligent.

As always, No offence intended, Just debating and debating needs opposition.

I think you may have misunderstood me. I was disagreeing with Sixate. I absolutely believe that animals exhibit the ability to problem solve and that means intelligence in my book. I would, however, have to disagree with your examples of communication. Bees communicate through phermons and a genetically programed dance. That is not language. I am not sure if bird songs can be understood to be language either. They are composed by individual birds and may be closer to music than language.

GakFace · 04-30-2003, 06:44 PM

we cannot say its not a language.. as we dont' have the slightest idea what it means (birds).. just a thought tho.

As for bees, I saw an episode on PBS about a guy studying bees. He would train them to leave the nest for sugar water (not the main test).. Until he got them NEAR a tower. I forget the height of the tower, but it took the guy a few minutes of stairs to climb. He would tag the bee's daily, so he knew which bees were new and which ones have been there for a while. The first time.. he set the sugar water at the top.. once a few bees found it.. then they set up another one at the base... All of the bees went to the top and ignored the bottom... As it was communicated to them that it was on top. To further the study, the next day he reversed it.... and sure enough bees went to the new location. And to point out, There were lots of new bees (hehehe accidental pun) at the correct one. Aka, they had no clue where it was at, yet it got to the exact place without a problem... (if it had a problem, you would have expected to see a lot more bee's at the other sugar water stand, but you didn't)

Thats is why i brought up bees.. It may be a dance, but its still a form of communication, and pretty good if you ask me.

Oh and sorry, yeah i mis-understood you. Oh and to note... we are genetically "programmed" to speak. Regardless if you talk around a child, they will begin to use their voices... They just need others to learn how to speak like us. I read that last semester on MSNBC.

sixate · 04-30-2003, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phoenix1002
I believe that animals are "intelligent" and have personalities. They are not humans, though, so saying that they are stupid because they cannot do things that humans can do is not a good comparison. Ask anyone with a pet, and they will tell you that their animals all act differently to certain situations. I have one cat that is very agressive in a fight, until he thinks he's losing, at which point he becomes a chicken. My other cat is always chicken, but is always a lapcat. They both were brought up under the same conditions, too, so that doesn't explain it.

in·tel·li·gence

the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations

my cat was missing for about 2 months. He definitely had to deal with new or trying situations.

the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria

Many animals manipulate their environment- cats, birds, fish, dogs, etc...

The capacity to know or understand; readiness of comprehension; the intellect, as a gift or an endowment

some primates can understand and speak in sign language.

Knowledge imparted or acquired, whether by study, research, or experience; general information

My friend had two dogs, one older than the other. The older dog they trained certain things. The younger dog they did not have to train, because the older dog taught the younger one the 'rules'

I can think of examples for every aspect of that definition of 'intelligence' that describes the actions of animals.

Great, so you think you're a s smart as a dog, cat, or monkey. Congratulations. Is it just me or did this discussion get really weird?

Can anyone tell me why we are the top of the food chain? Cause we are the smartest things on the planet. We created everything on the planet that isn't natural. Animals didn't create medicine, cars, stoves, and everything else you can think of. Only humans have the capability to do these things.

GakFace · 04-30-2003, 07:34 PM

Sixate: Every human has a different level of intelligence than that of another... But from you it sounds like an animal has to be AS smart as you or its dumb.... thats not workin'

WhoaitsZ · 04-30-2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greytone
Bees communicate through phermons and a genetically programed dance. That is not language.

why is this not language? Isn't language just a type of communication? if they understand each other, they comunicate, the work, they build........

i'm not understanding this.

WhoaitsZ · 04-30-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

[i]
Can anyone tell me why we are the top of the food chain? [/B]

we got the 'Big Pointy Stick' first. and 'Fire". we have a thumb, thus allowing us to grasp/hold objects and use them as tools.

we evolved. now we have Guns and Nucleur weapons.

i think if it were not for our thumbs and bipedal abilities, we would not be so high up.

riptide4070 · 05-01-2003, 11:05 AM

I talk to all animals as if they had human intelligence. I believe all animals can communicate, but they usually use body language or actions. Some call me crazy but I don't mind...."we all get a little crazy sometimes"

GakFace · 05-01-2003, 12:37 PM

I belive you riptide.. I do the same. And its not just cause i'm bored, I honestly believe they know what i'm saying. and they definately understand body actions.

Z: Yeah we're only high up because we were able to make weapons, until then we were having trouble surviving. Originally way back when... early Humans would eat the remains of an animal as we could not do it ourselves.

from that.. Sixate: Yeah we created all this.. but look at the animals.. they don't NEED it to survive, thus they don't. For all we know they can make some pretty neat shit,maybe they know how to do nuclear Fission, but they don't because they don't see the need. We have guns because we can't take down an Deer without them.. Yet if you look at other animals... why use a gun then your own claws work just as well?

hrdwareguy · 05-01-2003, 02:17 PM

Like people, animals have their own personalities. I am able to tell when my dogs are happy, or when they don't feel good. They know when they have been bad and gotten into trouble. (and no I don't have to beat them for them to understand this.

I consider my pets to be like small children that will never grow up. They have emotions, attitudes and personalities. All you have to do is learn what your pets are and you will be better able to understand them.

WhoaitsZ · 05-01-2003, 03:23 PM

getting a parrot is almost the absolute last thing i'd recommend someone to get for a pet because they requires sooo much responsibility.. but i've owned one.. a quaker.. anyhow, bad road tha went down. anyhow, if you want to ever see if animals can gain intelligence, work with a bird, especially great parrots (greys of course, macaws and amazons are good too) or even quakers, parrotless.... believe me.. your minds will change..

it amazes me how big and bad and all out mighty we humans are..... when we have guns or six or seven people with a weapon.

put a man up against a bull with no sword or anything..... that would be a fight i'd pay money to see.

or maybe try to kill some wolves for fur.
yeah, i'd DEFINATLY pay to see that. it'll get dumb people thinned out quickly!

queedo · 05-29-2003, 07:31 PM

Just from observation you can tell that some pets understand things better than others, just as humans do. But I would not say that pets have human intelligence, they have superior or inferior or average intelligence for their particular species.

guthmund · 05-29-2003, 09:12 PM

All I can say is I had a German Shepard with a built in "Asshole detector." He could spot the jerks faster than I could. He had a pretty good system. If he let you pet him; you're an okay guy. If he softly growled and stepped forward; you're probably an asshole.

He knew when it was feeding time, bath time, vet time, walking time, and he knew that when faced with a long afternoon the best thing is to take a nap. He found the toilet all by himself and always 'asked' to go outside to shit.

He may not have been as smart as I am, but he's was a damn sight smarter than some of my former roommates.

As for human intelligence....I've seen specials with gorillas who have been taught to 'speak' using sign-language; and it really makes you wonder sometimes. Dominating the planet as a species really isn't that big an accomplishment. Dinosaurs dominated their world as well, and I don't see any of those lurking around anymore....

duckznutz · 05-30-2003, 08:11 AM

If your dog digs you out of the snow and rolls you over and then barks at you then it is doing so just because you are the hand that feeds it. Human emtional attachment to animals is largely a one-way street I think. When I was a child our dog absolutely loved one neighbour and hated the other . . . turned out one of them was feeding him chocolate biscuits! Guess which neighbour the dog 'loved'?

Microphonic · 05-30-2003, 05:49 PM

http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1...424630,00.html

Worth considering given the debate.

gov135 · 05-30-2003, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Microphonic
http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1...424630,00.html

Worth considering given the debate.

Interesting. Thanks.

oldtimer · 06-04-2003, 07:06 PM

I wish I didn't but I think I do. My cat does have a personality that I associate with him. But I evy all animals, except the ones we torture day in and day out (cows, pigs, cattle, hens, you name it we probably eat it), for not having human intelligence because all we do now are work ourselves into a tiresome rut, well at least everyone older than 17. Animals, heh, do what they do, what nature instinctly taught them to do. No worries except if they are not at the top of the food chain or wheter or not a Toyota Supra will come slamming into them when they cross the street (Not an actual event). but back to the topic, Yes I do associate a lttle human intelligence to my cat though in my book he does not have to exihibit human intelligence in order to be smart, they are a completely different species.

MacGnG · 06-04-2003, 08:09 PM

for dogs, cats, and similar animals i think most owners without really thinking about it treat there pets as if they are children, people that just dont know better, or havent learned yet. thats how i see it

XenuHubbard · 06-04-2003, 10:32 PM

My fiancee does. Her dog looks like a cross between a really small hamster and a dishrag. It's stupid, but she thinks it's lovely and about to get the Nobel prize in economics.

It's sitting right next to me. Licking it's ass.

Only cool thing about it is that I've seen it chase off large street dogs (some are quite nasty here in Taiwan). This is of course just another example of it's stupidity.

But noo, it just shows how brave the dog is. Pooping on the floor shows it's feeling mistreated, and is protesting. The list goes on. Whatever the creature does, my fiancee comes up with another reason why it proves that the dog's a MENSA member.

bender · 06-05-2003, 08:54 AM

I think that all animals have intel. and we just associate it with our own exp.
The smarts that a dog will show are due to training, and that in it self proves that they and all animals have some intel. to one degree or another.
The rest of what an aminal shows is specific to that particular animals history, and evolution.

Darkblack · 06-06-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
Can anyone tell me why we are the top of the food chain? Cause we are the smartest things on the planet. We created everything on the planet that isn't natural. Animals didn't create medicine, cars, stoves, and everything else you can think of. Only humans have the capability to do these things.

I read through this entire post and sixate you stuck out like a soar thumb.

We are at the top of the food chain because we are the smartest for our time.

That being said, animals do eat certain plants only when they are sick. These plants contain certain things that cure illness.

Chimps have taken sticks to use as tools to dig out or scoop out termites from logs and holes.

Otters use rocks to crack open shellfish.

Birds and squirrels build nests to provide shelter.

Dolphins have a language and communicate with each other. They will baby-sit each other’s young.

Does this not take intelligence?

Minx · 06-06-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atropos4
When Elephants Weep: The Emotional Lives of Animals
by Susan McCarthy, Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson

I read that book a while ago...It is very factual....Check it out...
I believe my pets are intelligent ...of course some more than others and they all have feelings ....my mind will never be changed about this.....

This is one of the best books I have ever read on the subject of anthropomorphism (which is basically subscribing human emotions to animals...the theory has killed the reputation of many a good scientist).

I feel not only are most animals very intelligent but they feel emotions as we do. I saw footage once of a mother seal with her babe, another female seal who was too old to breed stole the baby and in trying to retrieve it and the ensuing struggle...the baby seal was dashed to the rocks and died. If you could have seen the mother with it's dead babe and heard her obvious cries (not of physical pain but the pain of losing a loved one) you would never ever doubt that some animals feel emotions just as humans do. There are numerous stories regarding all types of animals, both domesticated and wild which prove that they are capable of emotions and this, to me, also indicates that they are intelligent creatures.
Some of what they do can be attributed to instinct but not always.
Is a dog smart enough to write a thesis on the theory of relativity....nope - but that does not mean they are stupid by any means at all. And animals, just as humans, have varying degrees of intelligence. Pigs and horses are incredibly intelligent animals who can learn at the pace of a small child.
Sixate mentioned something along the lines (sorry it was back at the beginning so I'm not quoting here) that animals were stupid because they lacked the ability to write, speak, read, create, etc. I completely disagree. Animals build their own homes, care for and defend their young just as we do. Because they don't speak English does not mean they do not have their own language. Bees can communicate very well as do ants and many other creatures...wolves...even elephants (they use high pitched noises not picked up by the human ear). Dolphins and whales communicate among their pods. Just because they are not speaking our language does not mean they do not have the ability to communicate. If you say Sixate that the defining idea of intelligence is whether you can walk, talk, read or write....well, I would think there are a few people in wheelchairs who don't have those capabilities who would disagree with you 100%.
For myself....I only wish that I could claim my dog as a dependent on my income tax! He has a job - he guards my home and my family. He eats, breaths, snores and dreams. He is happy when I mention the word walk and pouts when I leave for work. He is depressed when "his" kids leave for the weekend and he is a family member...albeit just a little hairy!

MacGnG · 06-06-2003, 01:10 PM

animals don't have "intelligence" - as we know it anyway.

aliens might see us and think, "oh they are dumb, lets not go to Earth."

<center>perspective</center>

WhoaitsZ · 06-07-2003, 11:00 AM

hmm. a serious thought that would sound almost like a joke:

so, a dog licks his own butt. how does this make him stupid or even less intelligent than humans?

it is hygiene. sure, its gross, but it is nature to them.

hell, we have baths/showers/soaps/shamppoos.. tons of tools to clean ourselves and some of us are still too damned stupid to take a bath!

i think shrugging off intelligence for such actions is more proof that we over exagerate our own intelligence.

debaser · 06-07-2003, 11:22 AM

A friend of mine in Montana has a dog that will actually fetch women in a bar. You point to a cute chick and the dog will go grab her by the sleeve and gently but insistently drag her over to you.

That being said, the dog still eats its own shit.

YMMV.

Minx · 06-09-2003, 12:54 PM

I will just leave two quotes from Mark Twain from two different items he wrote....

"It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions."

"Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one that inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it."

Smart man, that Mr. Twain.

YourNeverThere · 06-09-2003, 10:59 PM

I know that my dog is really stupid because he is huge and uncoordinated and bangs into things all the time, but yet i still think of him with a voice and thoughts, strange

coulrophobia · 06-14-2003, 09:38 PM

Okay, one thing to add is that we can't tell what animals are thinking and before we call them stupid we should know what they think. They say that dogs and cats are incapable of abstract thought.. But my cat once seemed to plan an excape from me.. It wasn't clever plan but it worked.. She bit my arm and ran away. But it looked like she was figuring out how and when to do it.
a plan. yes.

madsenj37 · 06-14-2003, 11:37 PM

The dog we have is a dog. Plain and simple, If it was human at all, I would have human expectations of it.

GakFace · 06-15-2003, 04:00 AM

If they have Intelligence such as us, then they have to portray things that we think of. They don't make ovens cause they don't NEED an oven, and moreso, they don't have the PHYSICAL makeup to do so, WE DO. This my friends is not a mental characteristic.. aka Intelligence related. So you can't bring up how they can't play basketball or hit a golf ball 180 yards in one swing, as they don't have the PHYSICAL makeup to do so. They can be dumb, because to be dumb, they have to have Intelligence. Hmm.. how interesting is that? So many "non-intelligence people say animals are dumb, but to be DUMB, means they have some sort of intelligence..as instinct doesn't make you smart or dumb.. just instinctive. The hand that feeds it? blehg! My sister's dog is nice to people after she meets them. She knows to search my house for crumbs, because if a small crumb falls, we'll get it soon with the vacuum, as we dont' have a dog. So she knows that she might find something on our kitchen floor. When she grabs something she isn't supposed to have... she RUNS!!!!! if she didn't have any intelligence she would just bite it and look up or whatever..but she KNOWS she's gonna get yelled at so she runs and hides.. does this remind you of a young child? I sure would hope so. The dog also has a funny Ego Trip. Small Jack Russel, but she works out so much with her owner that she's almost pure muscle. Well, she KNOWS she's pure muscle and thus she shows NO FEAR. Some dog 4 times her size doesn't scare her. The thing can be dripping with spit, and razor sharp teeth, ready to maul her, and she's still ready to kick his ass. I dunno about you, But I know a few people that thing they are so good, that nothing can knock them down.
So here is the question.
Do animals have Human Intelligence?
OR
Do Humans LACK Human Intelligence?

XenuHubbard · 06-16-2003, 10:37 PM

What does a cat do?
Whatever it wants to.
Does it still get food?
Yep.

Cats are smart.

04-30-2003, 05:17 PM	#42 (permalink)
phoenix1002 Psycho Location: lost	I believe that animals are "intelligent" and have personalities. They are not humans, though, so saying that they are stupid because they cannot do things that humans can do is not a good comparison. Ask anyone with a pet, and they will tell you that their animals all act differently to certain situations. I have one cat that is very agressive in a fight, until he thinks he's losing, at which point he becomes a chicken. My other cat is always chicken, but is always a lapcat. They both were brought up under the same conditions, too, so that doesn't explain it. in·tel·li·gence the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations my cat was missing for about 2 months. He definitely had to deal with new or trying situations. the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria Many animals manipulate their environment- cats, birds, fish, dogs, etc... The capacity to know or understand; readiness of comprehension; the intellect, as a gift or an endowment some primates can understand and speak in sign language. Knowledge imparted or acquired, whether by study, research, or experience; general information My friend had two dogs, one older than the other. The older dog they trained certain things. The younger dog they did not have to train, because the older dog taught the younger one the 'rules' I can think of examples for every aspect of that definition of 'intelligence' that describes the actions of animals. __________________ I'd rather be climbing... I approach college much like a recovering alcoholic--one day at a time...

04-30-2003, 05:34 PM	#43 (permalink)
Atropos4 Think about it Location: North Carolina	When Elephants Weep: The Emotional Lives of Animals by Susan McCarthy, Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson I read that book a while ago...It is very factual....Check it out... I believe my pets are intelligent ...of course some more than others and they all have feelings ....my mind will never be changed about this..... __________________ Minds are like parachutes. They work better open. "If I were Hermione, I would have licked his pantleg."

04-30-2003, 06:44 PM	#45 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	we cannot say its not a language.. as we dont' have the slightest idea what it means (birds).. just a thought tho. As for bees, I saw an episode on PBS about a guy studying bees. He would train them to leave the nest for sugar water (not the main test).. Until he got them NEAR a tower. I forget the height of the tower, but it took the guy a few minutes of stairs to climb. He would tag the bee's daily, so he knew which bees were new and which ones have been there for a while. The first time.. he set the sugar water at the top.. once a few bees found it.. then they set up another one at the base... All of the bees went to the top and ignored the bottom... As it was communicated to them that it was on top. To further the study, the next day he reversed it.... and sure enough bees went to the new location. And to point out, There were lots of new bees (hehehe accidental pun) at the correct one. Aka, they had no clue where it was at, yet it got to the exact place without a problem... (if it had a problem, you would have expected to see a lot more bee's at the other sugar water stand, but you didn't) Thats is why i brought up bees.. It may be a dance, but its still a form of communication, and pretty good if you ask me. Oh and sorry, yeah i mis-understood you. Oh and to note... we are genetically "programmed" to speak. Regardless if you talk around a child, they will begin to use their voices... They just need others to learn how to speak like us. I read that last semester on MSNBC. __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

04-30-2003, 07:34 PM	#47 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	Sixate: Every human has a different level of intelligence than that of another... But from you it sounds like an animal has to be AS smart as you or its dumb.... thats not workin' __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

05-01-2003, 11:05 AM	#50 (permalink)
riptide4070 Addict Location: Boone, NC	I talk to all animals as if they had human intelligence. I believe all animals can communicate, but they usually use body language or actions. Some call me crazy but I don't mind...."we all get a little crazy sometimes" __________________ "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was making the world believe he didn't exist" -Kevin Spacey 'The Usual Suspects'

04-30-2003, 05:17 PM	#41 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	Yea i associate human inteligence, and i think my dog is really smart, (sometimes he just gets that creepy look in his eye, where you kno something is going on in there) but bottom line, they cant reason/rationalize...the biggest step between animal and human.

05-01-2003, 12:37 PM	#51 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	I belive you riptide.. I do the same. And its not just cause i'm bored, I honestly believe they know what i'm saying. and they definately understand body actions. Z: Yeah we're only high up because we were able to make weapons, until then we were having trouble surviving. Originally way back when... early Humans would eat the remains of an animal as we could not do it ourselves. from that.. Sixate: Yeah we created all this.. but look at the animals.. they don't NEED it to survive, thus they don't. For all we know they can make some pretty neat shit,maybe they know how to do nuclear Fission, but they don't because they don't see the need. We have guns because we can't take down an Deer without them.. Yet if you look at other animals... why use a gun then your own claws work just as well? __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

05-01-2003, 02:17 PM	#52 (permalink)
hrdwareguy "Officer, I was in fear for my life" Location: Oklahoma City	Like people, animals have their own personalities. I am able to tell when my dogs are happy, or when they don't feel good. They know when they have been bad and gotten into trouble. (and no I don't have to beat them for them to understand this. I consider my pets to be like small children that will never grow up. They have emotions, attitudes and personalities. All you have to do is learn what your pets are and you will be better able to understand them. __________________ Gun Control is hitting what you aim at Aim for the TFP, Donate Today

05-01-2003, 03:23 PM	#53 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	getting a parrot is almost the absolute last thing i'd recommend someone to get for a pet because they requires sooo much responsibility.. but i've owned one.. a quaker.. anyhow, bad road tha went down. anyhow, if you want to ever see if animals can gain intelligence, work with a bird, especially great parrots (greys of course, macaws and amazons are good too) or even quakers, parrotless.... believe me.. your minds will change.. it amazes me how big and bad and all out mighty we humans are..... when we have guns or six or seven people with a weapon. put a man up against a bull with no sword or anything..... that would be a fight i'd pay money to see. or maybe try to kill some wolves for fur. yeah, i'd DEFINATLY pay to see that. it'll get dumb people thinned out quickly!

05-29-2003, 07:31 PM	#54 (permalink)
queedo Shodan	Just from observation you can tell that some pets understand things better than others, just as humans do. But I would not say that pets have human intelligence, they have superior or inferior or average intelligence for their particular species. __________________ If you think you can or you can't, you are right!

05-29-2003, 09:12 PM	#55 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	All I can say is I had a German Shepard with a built in "Asshole detector." He could spot the jerks faster than I could. He had a pretty good system. If he let you pet him; you're an okay guy. If he softly growled and stepped forward; you're probably an asshole. He knew when it was feeding time, bath time, vet time, walking time, and he knew that when faced with a long afternoon the best thing is to take a nap. He found the toilet all by himself and always 'asked' to go outside to shit. He may not have been as smart as I am, but he's was a damn sight smarter than some of my former roommates. As for human intelligence....I've seen specials with gorillas who have been taught to 'speak' using sign-language; and it really makes you wonder sometimes. Dominating the planet as a species really isn't that big an accomplishment. Dinosaurs dominated their world as well, and I don't see any of those lurking around anymore.... __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

05-30-2003, 08:11 AM	#56 (permalink)
duckznutz Addict Location: Brook Cottage, Lanark, Scotland	If your dog digs you out of the snow and rolls you over and then barks at you then it is doing so just because you are the hand that feeds it. Human emtional attachment to animals is largely a one-way street I think. When I was a child our dog absolutely loved one neighbour and hated the other . . . turned out one of them was feeding him chocolate biscuits! Guess which neighbour the dog 'loved'? __________________ Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

05-30-2003, 05:49 PM	#57 (permalink)
Microphonic Upright	http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1...424630,00.html Worth considering given the debate.

06-04-2003, 07:06 PM	#59 (permalink)
oldtimer Addict	I wish I didn't but I think I do. My cat does have a personality that I associate with him. But I evy all animals, except the ones we torture day in and day out (cows, pigs, cattle, hens, you name it we probably eat it), for not having human intelligence because all we do now are work ourselves into a tiresome rut, well at least everyone older than 17. Animals, heh, do what they do, what nature instinctly taught them to do. No worries except if they are not at the top of the food chain or wheter or not a Toyota Supra will come slamming into them when they cross the street (Not an actual event). but back to the topic, Yes I do associate a lttle human intelligence to my cat though in my book he does not have to exihibit human intelligence in order to be smart, they are a completely different species. __________________ Slowly but surely getting over the loss of TFP v. 3.0. Where the hell am I?.... Showering once a month does not make you a better person. "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." Martin Luther King, Jr.

06-04-2003, 08:09 PM	#60 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	for dogs, cats, and similar animals i think most owners without really thinking about it treat there pets as if they are children, people that just dont know better, or havent learned yet. thats how i see it

06-04-2003, 10:32 PM	#61 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	My fiancee does. Her dog looks like a cross between a really small hamster and a dishrag. It's stupid, but she thinks it's lovely and about to get the Nobel prize in economics. It's sitting right next to me. Licking it's ass. Only cool thing about it is that I've seen it chase off large street dogs (some are quite nasty here in Taiwan). This is of course just another example of it's stupidity. But noo, it just shows how brave the dog is. Pooping on the floor shows it's feeling mistreated, and is protesting. The list goes on. Whatever the creature does, my fiancee comes up with another reason why it proves that the dog's a MENSA member. __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

06-05-2003, 08:54 AM	#62 (permalink)
bender Addict Location: around the corner	I think that all animals have intel. and we just associate it with our own exp. The smarts that a dog will show are due to training, and that in it self proves that they and all animals have some intel. to one degree or another. The rest of what an aminal shows is specific to that particular animals history, and evolution.

06-06-2003, 01:10 PM	#65 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	animals don't have "intelligence" - as we know it anyway. aliens might see us and think, "oh they are dumb, lets not go to Earth." <center>perspective</center>

06-07-2003, 11:00 AM	#66 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	hmm. a serious thought that would sound almost like a joke: so, a dog licks his own butt. how does this make him stupid or even less intelligent than humans? it is hygiene. sure, its gross, but it is nature to them. hell, we have baths/showers/soaps/shamppoos.. tons of tools to clean ourselves and some of us are still too damned stupid to take a bath! i think shrugging off intelligence for such actions is more proof that we over exagerate our own intelligence.

06-07-2003, 11:22 AM	#67 (permalink)
debaser Sir, I have a plan... Location: 38S NC20943324	A friend of mine in Montana has a dog that will actually fetch women in a bar. You point to a cute chick and the dog will go grab her by the sleeve and gently but insistently drag her over to you. That being said, the dog still eats its own shit. YMMV. __________________ Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.

06-09-2003, 12:54 PM	#68 (permalink)
Minx Junkie Location: Up yonder	I will just leave two quotes from Mark Twain from two different items he wrote.... "It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions." "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one that inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." Smart man, that Mr. Twain. __________________ You've been a naughty boy....go to my room!

06-09-2003, 10:59 PM	#69 (permalink)
YourNeverThere Practical Anarchist Location: Yesterday i woke up stuck in hollywood	I know that my dog is really stupid because he is huge and uncoordinated and bangs into things all the time, but yet i still think of him with a voice and thoughts, strange __________________ The Above post is a direct quote from Shakespeare

06-14-2003, 09:38 PM	#70 (permalink)
coulrophobia Upright	Okay, one thing to add is that we can't tell what animals are thinking and before we call them stupid we should know what they think. They say that dogs and cats are incapable of abstract thought.. But my cat once seemed to plan an excape from me.. It wasn't clever plan but it worked.. She bit my arm and ran away. But it looked like she was figuring out how and when to do it. a plan. yes.

06-14-2003, 11:37 PM	#71 (permalink)
madsenj37 Still searching... Location: NorCal For Life	The dog we have is a dog. Plain and simple, If it was human at all, I would have human expectations of it. __________________ "Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

06-15-2003, 04:00 AM	#72 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	If they have Intelligence such as us, then they have to portray things that we think of. They don't make ovens cause they don't NEED an oven, and moreso, they don't have the PHYSICAL makeup to do so, WE DO. This my friends is not a mental characteristic.. aka Intelligence related. So you can't bring up how they can't play basketball or hit a golf ball 180 yards in one swing, as they don't have the PHYSICAL makeup to do so. They can be dumb, because to be dumb, they have to have Intelligence. Hmm.. how interesting is that? So many "non-intelligence people say animals are dumb, but to be DUMB, means they have some sort of intelligence..as instinct doesn't make you smart or dumb.. just instinctive. The hand that feeds it? blehg! My sister's dog is nice to people after she meets them. She knows to search my house for crumbs, because if a small crumb falls, we'll get it soon with the vacuum, as we dont' have a dog. So she knows that she might find something on our kitchen floor. When she grabs something she isn't supposed to have... she RUNS!!!!! if she didn't have any intelligence she would just bite it and look up or whatever..but she KNOWS she's gonna get yelled at so she runs and hides.. does this remind you of a young child? I sure would hope so. The dog also has a funny Ego Trip. Small Jack Russel, but she works out so much with her owner that she's almost pure muscle. Well, she KNOWS she's pure muscle and thus she shows NO FEAR. Some dog 4 times her size doesn't scare her. The thing can be dripping with spit, and razor sharp teeth, ready to maul her, and she's still ready to kick his ass. I dunno about you, But I know a few people that thing they are so good, that nothing can knock them down. So here is the question. Do animals have Human Intelligence? OR Do Humans LACK Human Intelligence? __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

06-16-2003, 10:37 PM	#73 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	What does a cat do? Whatever it wants to. Does it still get food? Yep. Cats are smart. __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000