Automaton Theory - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Spritebox · 06-13-2003, 01:25 PM

Could someone please explain this to me in a paragraph or two?

I was reading Descartes' views on it, but that man confuses me.

rogue49 · 06-13-2003, 05:31 PM

Essentially, this is a subset of Epiphenomenalism
"The traditional doctrine of epiphenomenalism is that mental phenomena are caused by physical phenomena but do not themselves cause anything."

Thus body before mind.

Actually Descartes' arguments state the opposite...
"I am a thinking thing or a mind in my essence. In his philosophy mental processes come on first place."

Thus mind before body

Automaton Theory takes the middle road...
"Automaton-theory sees them as an independently existing world parallel to the world of physical events. These ideas make it easier to distinguish our bodily and mental actions by not mixing their nature at all. It is more convenient and avoids in a sense misunderstandings of our own behavior."

Thus mind & body are individual, neither is more important

http://www.geocities.com/boriana.geo...talevents.html

BTW, Automaton Theory is also a branch of study in mathematics, physics, economics and computers.
I would assume since this is Tilted Philosophy
you are talking about the Philosophical history & definition.

Personally, I think mind & body are BOTH unioned & separate.
One & Individual.

ARTelevision · 06-13-2003, 06:17 PM

rather than get upset about the implications of mind/body dualism - here's a link to some things you should know about descartes

http://www.vegans.org.uk/descartes.html

yeah its a vegan link
that's not the point.
the point is what kind of person or whatever this guy descartes was and the implications of his absurd ideas

rogue49 · 06-13-2003, 08:41 PM

Uh...I don't believe Descartes wanted his ideas used to hurt animals or others.

Others used those to rationalize their evil,
as many have done in the past with other branches of thought and concept.

But he did place humans above animals,
mind above body or sense,
as did many at that time

We know more now...in animals as well as humans,
that mind does not equate to consciousness

or better stated...intellect does not equal feeling or self.

We have had this problem through the ages even to this day,
where some will state those who are intellectually challenged
are lesser in being.

The retarded many times have their rights taken from them & questioned.
Or even those even slightly less intelligent are looked down upon.

duckznutz · 06-17-2003, 05:25 AM

great posts Rogue49! This is why I love the TFP . . . I can learn from people who I might not necessarily agree with . . . . . . . most excellent!

duckznutz · 06-17-2003, 05:27 AM

and a quote from that link . . . . . "Descartes decided to disregard what he had been told by others and insisted on thinking for himself" . . . . . . . . . what a guy! Maybe we should all be FORCED to think for ourselves (a conundrum) and disregard what others tell us.

06-13-2003, 01:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Spritebox Insane Location: Charlotte, N.C.	Automaton Theory Could someone please explain this to me in a paragraph or two? I was reading Descartes' views on it, but that man confuses me.

06-13-2003, 05:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	Essentially, this is a subset of Epiphenomenalism "The traditional doctrine of epiphenomenalism is that mental phenomena are caused by physical phenomena but do not themselves cause anything." Thus body before mind. Actually Descartes' arguments state the opposite... "I am a thinking thing or a mind in my essence. In his philosophy mental processes come on first place." Thus mind before body Automaton Theory takes the middle road... "Automaton-theory sees them as an independently existing world parallel to the world of physical events. These ideas make it easier to distinguish our bodily and mental actions by not mixing their nature at all. It is more convenient and avoids in a sense misunderstandings of our own behavior." Thus mind & body are individual, neither is more important http://www.geocities.com/boriana.geo...talevents.html BTW, Automaton Theory is also a branch of study in mathematics, physics, economics and computers. I would assume since this is Tilted Philosophy you are talking about the Philosophical history & definition. Personally, I think mind & body are BOTH unioned & separate. One & Individual. Last edited by rogue49; 06-13-2003 at 05:35 PM..

06-13-2003, 06:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	rather than get upset about the implications of mind/body dualism - here's a link to some things you should know about descartes http://www.vegans.org.uk/descartes.html yeah its a vegan link that's not the point. the point is what kind of person or whatever this guy descartes was and the implications of his absurd ideas __________________ create evolution

06-17-2003, 05:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
duckznutz Addict Location: Brook Cottage, Lanark, Scotland	great posts Rogue49! This is why I love the TFP . . . I can learn from people who I might not necessarily agree with . . . . . . . most excellent! __________________ Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

06-17-2003, 05:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
duckznutz Addict Location: Brook Cottage, Lanark, Scotland	and a quote from that link . . . . . "Descartes decided to disregard what he had been told by others and insisted on thinking for himself" . . . . . . . . . what a guy! Maybe we should all be FORCED to think for ourselves (a conundrum) and disregard what others tell us. __________________ Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

06-13-2003, 08:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	Uh...I don't believe Descartes wanted his ideas used to hurt animals or others. Others used those to rationalize their evil, as many have done in the past with other branches of thought and concept. But he did place humans above animals, mind above body or sense, as did many at that time We know more now...in animals as well as humans, that mind does not equate to consciousness or better stated...intellect does not equal feeling or self. We have had this problem through the ages even to this day, where some will state those who are intellectually challenged are lesser in being. The retarded many times have their rights taken from them & questioned. Or even those even slightly less intelligent are looked down upon.