Parabola

I have been raised in a religous family but I myself do not believe in god. I also am willing to admit god does indeed exists but I just find it all a little hard to believe.

There has always been one thing that has really bothered my about the whole religion thing. How do you know you have the right religion? If you do have the right religion then where did the other ones come from? Say Christianity is the path to salvatino and Jesus died for all of our sins. If that is the case then where did the other religions come from. I'm sure there are tons of history to Muslim, Hindu, Buddist and all kinds of other religions but they are not right. Where did these religions come from? If they aren't the one true religion and yet millions of people belive in it then how do you know for sure that what you believe in is true. Some one must have made them all up since god didn't have anything to do with it. If someone can make up a religion and get millions of people to belive in it then how can you be sure your religion wasn't just made up by someone?

j03th3j3w

religion is only a means...

ppl are only looking for answers... always looking.. and they think that believing in something(religion) will help them find the answers... makes them sleep better at night... i say.. good for them.. but that doesnt mean i have to believe...

mr sticky

Parabola, the basic tenet of any religion is faith. No religion proves itself... if so, then faith wouldn't be required. Search you heart, study other religions if you would like, but your spiritual journey is one you make by yourself.
I believe that there is a push of religion in this country, but a complete lack of spirituality. We "say it" but don't "feel it." Find teachings that appeal to your inner voice. You won't go wrong, I promise.

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Bill O'Rights

You're looking at "right" as in "right vs wrong". The right religion is the one that fits <b>you</b>. I don't really look upon the Christians being any more right than the Muslims, being any more right than the Hindus, being any more right than the Wiccans. The trick, of course, is to find the one religion that provides you with the greatest comfort level; then you've found the "right religion".

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

tecoyah

Seems to me, If you believe in a religion that accepts all others as correct as well....you have the correct one. Why does anyone have to be wrong in the first place.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

CSflim

The point is, that all religions make various statements of FACT.

Christianity (in its undiluted, non wishy-washy form) says:
The earth and all of its inhabitants was created in six days by an all powerful, all knowing force. Then 4000 years later a guy named jesus, the son of god, was born by a virgin, was put to death by the authorities, and he then came back from the dead, to continue preaching, and then three days later floated off into the sky, to join his father in heaven.

The question is, is this actually true?
No amout of "it's true if you believe it" will change the ultimate undeniable fact: It either happened, or it did not.

That is what the search for the "right" religion is. Since they all make contradictory statements of FACT, they cannot all be correct. So, you have to make a judgment, on these religions, and decide which one to "choose". And choose well, you must, the fate of your imortal soul may depend on it.

How do you make such a judgement? You, apparently must go with what "feels" right. So it comes down to simply believeing in whatever story pleases you most, for whatever particular reason.
But this method of choice, does not change the fact, that you are more than likely wrong, given the number of religions that you have to choose from.
Some religions would claim that it doesn't matter what you believe in, and thats fine, but yet others would claim that a correct chocie is the most important choice you will ever make. Make a bad one, and you'll burn in hell for all eternity.

The other option, is of course to go for the very modern, I believe in some undefined something or other, external wonderful magical powerful, mystical loving being. If you are vague enough, then, like astrology, you can't not be right.

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CSflim

A: B is lying
B: A is lying
C: Both A and B are telling the truth.

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wilbjammin

With humans, it is important to note that people in our culture tend be more concerned with having an illusion of safety and a net of external meaning to govern their lives. The Greeks had this figured out, they had two opposing gods, Dionysus and Apollo. Dionysus is the primordial god, the god of drinking, of existing and very much of the earth. Silenus, his eternal friend in the woods, was questioned about existence and after telling everyone that they didn't want to hear the truth he finally came out with it:

"The best thing would have been for you to have never been born. The next best thing would be to die as soon as possible."

Why? Because life is filled with suffering, because we feel alone, we know we're going to die, and the crushing weight of it all makes death a preferable option, but...

Silenus is not the only god with anything to say on the matter. Apollo, the god of images, takes the wisdom of Silenus and turns it on it's head:

"The worst thing would have been for you to have never been born. The next worst thing would be to die as soon as possible."

Why? Because we create meaning in our lives, we create a veil over the starkness of existence to make it tolerable, and even enjoyable - to make it <i>meaningful</i>.

So... when it comes to discussing religion, this little story brings it all down to a good representation of the choices. Choosing a religion is equivalent to picking a veil. I think organized religions of all sorts tend to be the easiest exits towards facing the Dionysian world. Personally, I think we need balance between experiencing both the veils and the real nature of existence, which I find to be lacking in religions which try cover existence in such a tight veil that really experiencing that other side of existence is discouraged and dogmatically so vehemently that it almost becomes a way to negate existing at all. Particularly putting an emphasis on an afterlife I find has the net effect of cancelling out the lives we lead now, which is the only thing we know we are guaranteed to have. All Apollo and no Dionysus is a totally abstract existence.

I could say more, but that covers the heart of it.

chavos

I'll take exception to that. There is no good evidence that Jesus intended any sort of credal faith in starting his movement. To say that Christianity is undiluted when it is credal is to fundamentally ignore the history of the early Church. I understand that fundamentalism, post-reformation orthodoxy, and biblical literalism seem like they are the real Christianity, but the truth is that they are not. What does Christianity say in its undiluted form? Why not ask Jesus?

That, that is an examples of undiluted Christian teaching. Original sin is a construction of Aquinas, The Godhood of Christ and the virgin birth are Nicean additions, the five fundamentals come from the 1900s... So , i ask you to cease making statement about what True Christianity is about...becuase you have shown a propensity to singluarly focus on a specific strain, while deligitimating others. Why? I don't know...but it troubles me. You obviously have no love for fundamentalist belief, so i'm forced to believe that you are simply using a strawman, using the guilt and fear constructs of fundamentalist belief to try to force people out of mainline to liberal views, and then turn around and use those same constructs to attack fundamentalism. All you are proving is that fundamentalism is hard to defend logically...

CSflim

Ok. point taken. I take back the "undiluted form" comment and replace it with "a particular form of christianity states".

My point was not so much to claim that christianity was hard to defend logically. But rather that christianity (like most religions) makes certain statements of fact. These facts are either true or false regardless of what you might believe. The idea that truth is somehow subjective was the idea that I was going against.
As such, there must be a religion which is "correct", in that the statements it makes are objectively true (independant of our ability to logically reason these facts/find any evidence for them).

To rephrase:
Most religions make statements of fact.
These often contradict statements made by other religions.
Therefore they can't ALL be right.
It is that case that either:
A: Only one religion is correct.
B: A small subset of religions are correct.
C: No religion is correct.

Either way, Parabola is faced with a problem, despite the fact that the first replies to this thread simply denied that any problem exists in the first place.

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Mantus

Religion causes more grief then good. My advice is to learn from all but follow none.

Kyo

Well, the problem lies in the all-or-nothing nature of religion. I've found that inter-religious discussions are impossible, simply because most are fundamentally opposed from square one. Religion is a no-compromise proposition - either you believe it or you don't. Either it is correct or it is incorrect. Either you are wrong, or they are wrong.

And really, who in their right mind is going to stand for some fool making false claims when clearly, you are in the right? Not that you could prove it, but you are sure you're right, because your heart and soul tells you so, so you should go tell those unbelievers that they are wrong and will burn in the cleansing fires of hell for their blasphemy.

Blah blah blah. Yadda yadda. Etc.

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chavos

Do the factual claims really provide the substance? Most people will probably affirm the virgin birth if you ask them about it, at least in the US. But whether that's correct or not, probably doens't have much to do one way or the other with the quality of their religious experience. What if the test of a religion isn't about if the truth claims it makes are objectively true, and more about the experience of the divine that it makes possible? I have friends who i think are mistaken on matters of faith, and they think i'm the one in teh wrong...but we all acknowledge that our disparate paths, with different claims, all have led us in to the precesnse of God. Right? Wrong? Perhaps it doesn't matter...

Kostya

I disagree. While religious pluralism appears to be the only fair and balanced way to appraoch religion on the surface, it's very nature leads its proponents into logical inconsistencies. Firstly, in order to have pure pluralism, such as that tecoyah is advocating, one would be forced to admit that all religions are correct, despite the fact that there are irreconcilable differences between say Christianity's 'no killing' policy and the beliefs of the Charles Manson. If you were to apply pure pluralism to religion, you would have to accept that the evil cult in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom is in fact correct, but how can this be so if one believes that the Hindu belief of non-violence is also equally correct.

Moreover, pluralism, is in fact an exclusivist claim. By saying that all religions, or a select number of core religions are all correct, you are therefore making the claim that pluralism is the correct belief and exclusivism is the incorrect one.

Is it really legitimate to choose a religion, in the sense of a preference, because it feels comfortable to you? I don't think this really fits in with the fact that most religions require that their followers have some kind of self validating faith. By simply choosing to become a Muslim because it seemed like a comfortable and easy religion, I beleive you are really making a choice about lifestyle, not religion.

I'm rambling...

wilbjammin

Well... at risk of sounding like a non-sequitur... In an absurd world everything is allowed. Correctness is only measured in if you feel that your choices you make are the best choices. The comparitive value in looking at your decision compared to another is essentially nil. "Truth" (with a capital T) doesn't exist except in the eye of the beholder.

emmdubbs

kinda like the wind...you can't see it, but you know it's there, and you feel it's effects... a weird analogy i know..but *shrugs*

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Bloodslick

All of the comfort of religion comes from knowing that there is a God, that He/She/It cares for you, and in most cases that you won't simply die, but will live on afterwards in your loving God's presence.

That's not a subjective experience. If you took away the ideas that God was there, loved you, and would take you under His/Her/Its wing after you died, what would you have? What would you have been "close" to?

Most religions tell you pretty flat-out that you shouldn't believe in other gods, and can't if you want to get The Big Reward instead of being shunned. How is that ultimatum a personal experience? What about it doesn't speak of it being one objective Truth?

Philosophy is more suited to the "world outlook and belief" that you're talking about. Religion, while it may not always be perfectly clear, is always very specific, very black and white about some things.

Mantus

It pisses me off how so many people here talk about religion as if it had no effect in the corporal world. Religions dictate how you will act, think and feel. I would argue that these actions are very real. We cannot not look at the Crusades and say: “well that was faith” or 9-11 and say: "well those were just some faithful people, we should not question their actions."

The moral, spiritual and philosophical components of most religions have been adopted from society, and are in no way original to the religion. The only thing that separates religions are their corporal details.

The.Lunatic

I like it how we are like science is the answer and stupid shit like that when all we can do is observe and prove nothing.

If you can explain to me why electrons attract protons, and why objects in motion tend to stay in motion then i will consider the possibility of this cosmic impossiblity. The probobality of our universe forming as it has can only be described by quantum physics in which all possibly soloutions exist. I've got a soloution for you divine intervention.

God exists get over it.

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tecoyah

The questionis not whether "GOD" exists....But why is any one god more plausible in general than any other. God does not kill, It is the ignorant , misguided humans who act in the name of a religion that kill.I can accept everyones creator and be perfectly happy with my own spirituality, simply because I think I am beyond the need of an outside force to guide my growth. That does not mean I think others should forgo the belief they have at my bidding. Your god may very well exist...just keep it to yourself when it comes to social interaction with those of another path.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

TheFirstDuffMan

D: Both A and B are lying.

Oooo... I like that

GakFace

WRONG!!!!!!
Sorry, but let me get my Anthropology notes out to let you know of an error you made here. I'm not meaning to be an ass, but no where do we say that the world is 6000 years old.

A man by the name of Archbishop James ussher used the bible to state how old the Earth was. He even came up with an EXACT time. He stated that the Earth was created at 9:00 AM October 23rd, 4004 B.C. I'm a christian and I find this to be a load of crap.

Dendochronology alone goes back 11,000 years to the Ice Age. The only reason it doesn't go back further is because the ice kind of had a way of wiping out the tree line that was used for the dating method. Dendochronology is by comparing tree rings and going back in years. Trees in a region will have a certain thickness in their rings depending on how well they 'fed'. From this you can actually compare trees through generations.. the newer generation will have years that coincide with the the older generations and so on and so forth.

Oh also, I will soon be getting my hands on the PDF on Ussher's methods so I can delve further into this.

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tecoyah

So anyway, back to the origional thread-

All religions are the creation of men, period. This is undeniable. People wrote the books, came up with the concept, and have revised them all thru the centuries.

All religions are now interpreted by people who were not around during the drafting period of the origional document or belief, and therefor are further revising thru interpretation.

All religions will be the correct path for some people, but not for all. There is nothing "wrong " with this, it is human nature.

All religions will have fervent followers who feel the need to convert the rest in order to "save "them , or for whatever reasoning they have.

Most religions are harmless to society as a whole ,and in fact serve great purpose in creating ethical guidelines for the masses to follow, often running courses parallel to each other.

Most religions need to be revised as time goes by in order to adapt to changes in the world-view.This creates new forms of the origional and allows for religious evolution, thus keeping the religion alive.

No religion can claim to be unchanged from the text written by its creator entity. Things are forgotten, changed, misinterpreted, or purposefully reworded to reflect current or past leadership values.

No human being can rightfully claim to know the mind of "god", and expect to be unchallenged. No religion can expect anything more.

All this being stated, we come to the unfortunate reality of your situation. There is no creature of this earth who can guide you to the "right" spiritual path ........other than yourself.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Rodney

Religions are all different traditions of worshipping God, understanding the universe, whatever. Back when people didn't more around so much, religions were regional; literally, what people believed in a given area based on their culture and history. Now, we all move around more, and so do our religions.

Like any good tradition or belief system, a religion contains mechanisms for its own self-preservation -- this is the one, right, and true way, pay no attention to what they do on the other side of the river, they're heathens (regional, see?). And the hierarchs who run these religions (not all religions have them) have a vested interest in keeping their flock from wandering away, so they keep up the walls between religion A and B (or Christian Sect A and B) with teachings and canons and all sorts of holy-sounding things that tell you that God _really_ is here, not there, don't go over there, DON'T go over there. Some of their followers buy the line, some don't. Actually, except for the most ingrown of religions, I'd say most followers are pretty okay with different religions.

Are all religions good? I would say, some are better than others. The ones that encourage you to seek out your fellow man with an open hand and love and help him/her _unconditionally_, not just as a potentional convert --- those are the keepers.

TheKak

How can you quote Jesus when the people who wrote what he said werent even there when he said it?!

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:::OshnSoul:::

I was brought up in a christian church with my family, and I respect the religion, as every other religion, but it always seemed too limited and quite a bit contradicted in the bible, new testament vs. old testament.
Such as: In the Old Testament-
God created every one of us equally and "in the image and likeness of Him",
God loves us all unconditionally
God is all-powerful
God gave us the greatest gift of all: Free Will

New Testament-
God judges us,
we must obey the 10 commandments and go to church and be "saved" to have the path to heaven,
we are born with sin,
we are sent to "Hell" if we do not accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour,
Jesus was sent down from God as His one and only "son"
there is a "devil" figure who constantly rivals with God


I respect all means of religions and beliefs as a path to God, but I see Truth in each religion, yet keeping in mind that religion is afterall man-created.
But what people miss and forget is the connection and communication with God, which all of us are unlimited to doing.


Conversations with God book series by Neale Donald Walsch might be something you would be interested in- it's just a suggestion. Everything I ever felt deep down, that I couldn't pinpoint and really describe was all spelled out word for word in such a clear way throughout that series. It blew me away.

It explains all the questions you may have to help you understand and decide what Your Truth is.

Knowing that all beliefs are a path to God, no right- no wrong, as we have the Free Will to be who we want and to choose our path and destiny.
It's deeper than religion, however- it's the spirituality within it that seems to get ignored.
God is not "someone" outside of us, who loves us yet judges us.
Think of it as "something" residing within and all around us. It never ceases, never ignores, never punishes, never judges, never tests us or tricks us.

Just my thoughts for you. I know how you feel, but now I have opened my mind and spirit to realize Who I Truly Am and the true abundance of Life as My Choice.
Now you have the choice of deciding what feels good and true to you.

bonehed1

good answer.....I feel the same way

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