RelaX

Are there Buddhists here? I don't know if I'm the only one, but I've always found Buddhism and texts on Buddhism fascinating. If I should ever chose to follow a religion it would be Mahayana Buddhism.
The one thing I wonder about though is if you are a Buddhist, how can you live in the western world? I mean, if you can't kill even a single insect then driving a car would be out of the question.

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The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents.
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ninety09

Buddhism is a very interesting religion. In my opinion, it makes a lot more sense than most other religions. I have a lot of respect for Buddhists (real ones, not the wannabes), they are very commited to it.

sipsake

Been a student of the nyingma lineage of Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism for about 5 years.

"The one thing I wonder about though is if you are a Buddhist, how can you live in the western world? I mean, if you can't kill even a single insect then driving a car would be out of the question."

It has to do with intent and karma. Of course it would be impossible to live in the West...or the East for that matter, if you couldn't kill an insect. The thing is, I don't get into my car with the express intent to go kill insects.

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When life hands you a lemon, say "Oh yeah, I like lemons. What else you got?"

Henry Rollins

The_Dude

isnt the killing of minute living things more assosiated with jainism than buddhism?

hindu-atheist here.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

skinbag

There are a number of stories about monks going out of their way to avoid killing sentient beings. In my mind Jains are very extreme on this, while Buddhists tend to do their best considering the circumstances at hand and the Middle-Way doctrines. As sipsake mentioned, intent has everything to do with it. There is even a story about a highly realized individual (maybe the Buddha in a prior life) killing a bandit who was threatening those around him on the boat they were all traveling in. The lesser evil, I guess.

tehblaed

I am an atheist but hold the ideas and values of Buddhism and Taoism in very high respect. If I was anything, I would be a Buddhist.

Zeld2.0

Buddhists are pretty misunderstood but those who do know it, even many of other religions such as christians, see its *values* as being very good for life (though they don't see it as a religion).

I tend to agree as well for they do very well and i like their philosophies as well.

dtheriault

i've thought for a while about going to a buddhist temple. i think many of their ideas are more "christ-like" than the many perversions of christianity that have sprouted up.

my only problem is that just like christianity there seems to be a large number of schools/types of buddhism. isn't there just a plain old normal buddhism or one that isn't too caught up in specific rules.

it's hard to get rid of desire if you are constantly worrying about minute rules.

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"Remember, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -Homer

Unless you are the freakin Highlander, what is the point in learning how to fight with a sword?

John Henry

There certainly is. The kind of Buddhism that I try to subscribe to isn't a religion, because it doesn't require any stretching of credence. There are no fixed rules and 'if you do this you will be punished' ideas. The precepts form more of a method for attaining contentment, along the lines of 'try doing this more and you'll feel better for it. The idea of worrying about rules and feeling bad for not following them is completely against Buddhist ideas.

P.S. Surely you mean 'Christ is Bhudda-Like'?

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"No one was behaving from very Buddhist motives. Then, thought Pigsy, he was hardly a Buddha, nor was he a monkey. Presently, he was a pig spirit changed into a little girl pretending to be a little boy to be offered to a water monster. It was all very simple to a pig spirit."

John Henry

There certainly is. The kind of Buddhism that I try to subscribe to isn't a religion, because it doesn't require any stretching of credence. There are no fixed rules and 'if you do this you will be punished' ideas. The precepts form more of a method for attaining contentment, along the lines of 'try doing this more and you'll feel better for it. The idea of worrying about rules and feeling bad for not following them is completely against Buddhist ideas.

P.S. Surely you mean 'Christ is Bhudda-Like'?

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"No one was behaving from very Buddhist motives. Then, thought Pigsy, he was hardly a Buddha, nor was he a monkey. Presently, he was a pig spirit changed into a little girl pretending to be a little boy to be offered to a water monster. It was all very simple to a pig spirit."

sixate

This is kinda off topic, but I'd like to hear your explanation of what a hindu-atheist is. Remember, atheists don't believe in gods....

CSflim

I would guess that that means he was raised as a Hindu, but has now stopped believing, but keeps up with the associated traditions?

(e.g I was raised as a christian , but no longer believe, but I still celebrate christmas)

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dimbulb

From what i've gathered, Buddhism is a very practical religion.
I've talked to some tibetan monks. (it just happens that the personal monastry of the Dalai Lama has a 'branch' here in my little town in upstate NY), and my dad, who believes in Tibetan Buddhism, has said the same thing to me in a totally different conversation. (I'm an agnostic, by the way.... but buddhism would be my choice, if i HAD to choose a belief system)

Anyway, I asked why Buddhists are allowed to eat meat. And the answer i received was that if they do not actively kill the animal, but buy a dead animal from the supermarket, it doesn't count as taking a life, since the animal is already dead. Not totally convincing, from my point of view, since purchasing meat, promotes the killing of animals for meat, but its another way of looking at it.

Furthermore, he went on to mention (and i guess this has to be taken in context) that plants don't grow very well in Tibet, and well, if you don't want to starve and get malnutrition, you eat meat. Or the lay buddhist is allowed to eat meat, at least. And killing yaks and cows isn't so bad, since taking one life allows you to keep many others alive. (And by extension, i guess eating shrimp is a BAD thing.... )

And back to the point about killing insects when driving. You only do bad things to your karma when killing intentionally. Or at least thats the moral i've drawn.

zodiac3k

even though i am not a buddhist, if i were going to explore and become a part of a religion buddhism would be my first choice

i'm fascinated with its teachings and belief systems

and i feel i relate to the beliefs of buddhism more then anything else

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zodiac3k

Darkblack

I am a Buddhist. I would not consider it a religion though, more of a philosophy. The Buddha wanted to create a path for others to follow to find spiritual enlightenment. This is my understanding.

Moonduck

The insect thing is definitely more based on Jainist thoughts on Karmic Accretion. BUddhism is nowhere so strict in most sects (at least from what I have seen in my studies).

The topic of eating meat is an interesting one. The early Buddhist monks would eat meat on occassion. As wandering ascetics, they begged for food and alms to keep them hale. They were bound by convention and tenet to eat what they were given. Thus if some passer-by gave them meat, the monk would prepare it and eat it, safe in the knowledge that his karma was in no danger. He had, in no way, contributed to the death of the animal as he did not ask for meat, did not buy meat, nor was the animal killed in sacrifice for the monk.

The_Dude

that's the cool thing 'bout hinduism.

there are no set rules or tenets that you have to follow. you dont have to believe in one single word the religion says, yet still can be classified as a hindu. nobody can deny you hinduism. i like some of the principles the religion emphasizes, but i'm not really into the mythology part.

it's evolved into a way of a life more than a religion.

sry about hijackin this thread.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Moonduck

There is a distinct Hindu philosophy system that parallels the religion. While strange to indentify onesself as a Hindu-atheist, it is not entirely bizarre. It would be similar to living within the confines of Judeo-Christian morality, as the majority of atheists in this country do, while not following the belief system underlying that morality.

sublue

For me, its all about the 4 noble truths and the middle path. Whenever I find myself getting really involved my life (having intense emotional experiences like anger, or guilt for killing bugs while driving), I remember that this is just a game and am reminded not to take it too seriously. At the same time, I'm playing this game so I wish not to take it too lightly. It's the ultimate Koan, the dicotomy, or the dynamic tension that makes this game so engaging. In my current understanding, killing the bug is not the way, while avoiding the bug is not the way, while saving the bug is not the way, while ignoring the bug is not the way...

The middle path.

Pennington

Nobody can rid themselves off all karma, that is not the point of Buddhism. Inhearent in living is suffering, pain and evil and it is not physically possible to remove pain from life. It is possible to release oneself from that pain. Minimizing bad karma is just one way of reaching that goal. When one reaches nirvana, you are beyond the reach of the rules and laws of karma because you see through the cycle of life and death and find the true meaning behind it all.

dtheriault

so i want to find out more about buddhism.

i live in southern california. specifically the OC. which branch of buddhism is most open to someone just showing up and exploring or asking questions and then coming back occasionally when you need more help with the ideas?

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"Remember, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -Homer

Unless you are the freakin Highlander, what is the point in learning how to fight with a sword?

omnigod

I'm sooo screwed. I get into my car for the sole purpose of hitting lightning bugs/fireflys because they glow forever on the windshield and are soooo cool!

skinbag

RelaX, your girl has a great chest! I was in Rotterdam and Amsterdam for work a few years back, and I loved your people and your country. I have never felt as free here in the states. Our culture is lacking, although I am glad to be home. (Wisconsinite forever!) And I have never seen so many healthy, attractive, real people in all my life. I'd better stop. My heart is aching from longing to visit again.
As for eating meat, I talked to a Tibetan friend (layman)and he also says that even if you pay a butcher to kill, you're not getting bad karma. Sounds like a religion gone stale to me. It's probably unfair, but since then I have been sensitive to the difference between "cultural Buddhism" and "fresh Buddhism". Any religion that becomes wrote repetition and/or incorporates rationalizations is in decline, IMHO. The Buddha himself addressed this, and I believe his teaching was to judge actions good or bad in terms relative to the suffering or joy that results. In many ways I feel that we westerners have an advantage in that we seek out the source of Buddhadharma rather than being spoon-fed out parents' beliefs, only to reject them later. --I know I cut Christianity apart while young and critical.
The branch of Buddhism most closely associated with the way of life of the Buddha and his students is called Theravada, which means "elder teachings" among other things. I prefer Zen because it is the result of collection and examination of the Dharma by our ancient chinese friends who were in a similar position, as outsiders examining a new way. I think they did a good job getting to the point, and the influence of Taoism and the existing culture of China was a bonus treat. Some Zen is deviant because of the poor state of information storage/transfer in those days. So I think any Buddhist study has to be backed up by reading multiple translations if possible and getting ahold of actual sutras, not just interpretations. With meditation one can begin to see the truth being referred to in the sutras. "The words are not the thing", to paraphrase Shakespeare. Direct experience and personal scientific examination of one's own "Being" are the original teachings. All other teachings are messy approximations used out of compassion. The Buddha doubted that this sublime experience could be passed from one to another, but realized he had to try. What was he going to do, just stay on the cushion the rest of his life? He had already been there & done that! I recommend "The raft is not the shore" for all zealots and fundamentalists. (Only a fool would carry his raft on his back after crossing the stream of suffering.) Love that teaching. Oh- the one comparing his own teaching to a poisonous snake that must be handled carefully lest one be killed is also a good proscription for independent thought. If anyone is actually interested in details, pm me. I'm dying for interpersonal communication with minimal commitment !

air45

hello to you, my friend!

i study the meditation with a monk who wears an orange robe. he has many wise things for sharing with me and others who sit with him.

buddhism is premium religion and i give it the thumb up!

utang

I'm a Buddhist, and its not really all that difficult. I agree with sipsake, its all about intent. If you don't do something for the sole purpose of killing, then you're golden. For the most part, Buddhism preaches not to kill, as long as it doesn't keep one from living one's life. If one needs to eat, and one must hunt to do so, one is not hunting to kill, but rather hunting to eat... Well, ok, I'm not entirely sure of that example, but I'm pretty sure it applies.

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I am a ridiculous man- Fyodor Doestoevsky

skinbag

We westerners have many misconceptions regarding Buddhism, but I second utang. The teachings are deep and wide enough to accomodate anyone who sincerely attempts to learn and grow. I have even been told not to worry about taking the precepts before I was sober, although I still think it's hippocritical to take precepts I don't expect to keep. ( Namely avoiding intoxicatoin.) It must be my guilt-ridden Protestant upbringing!

Ubermensch

I have studied some Buddhism and find it a very interesting religion. As with many above, if I had to make a choice about which religion to follow, it would be some creed of this nature. However, I am concerned about the new age adornments that are often attached to modern sects of Buddhism (crystals etc). Similarly, Buddhism also has other tennets or beliefs that are positively antiquated and could be described as superstition. The BBC recently showed a great documentary about the creation of a sand mandala at a hugely important Buddhist festival attended/presided over by the Dalai Lama. I was very impressed by how personal the experience was for those attending, and how open the discussions were on points of scripture and metaphysics. On the flip side, there were people performing ritual prostrations (10,000 or more) in the belief that it would being some kind of spiritual benefit. Similarly, there were people hugging a stone pillar that was said to possess healing powers.

My point is that Buddhism can be a hugely positive force (anyone ever heard of the Buddhist Crusades?) and a benign personal ethical code, but don't tell me that it cannot be compared to evangelical cristian worship or even primative superstition in some respects. Still, I stand by what I have said: I think it's the best of whats out there.

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"Man is a rope, fastened between animal and superman - a rope aver an abyss."
Thus spake Zarathustra

skinbag

I point out that that was Tibetan, which has many good points, but also has many cultural accretions. no offence to those practicing in the lineage, but I don't follow the logic of these cultural additions.

Lunchbox7

Ubermensch,
It has nbeen scientifically proven that the belief that healing takes place will actually promote healing. You see the human body and the human mind are marvelous things. They have an incredible ability to self repair. If a person is given a placebo drug they usually get better quicker than someone who didnt take the placebo. That is one of the reasons why modern day doctors dish out antibiotics so easily. There is no scientific evidence that it is the antibiotics that help and not just the individual getting better over time. So these Budhists who hug the stone for healing will actually heal faster and better if they believe it. There are numerous other examples ranging from reiki to meditation. This same principle is also applied to the reverse. The Australian Aboriginals have a saying "Pointing the bone". The witchdoctors would point a bone at someone and within a few days they would die everytime. The aboriginals would believe they were going to die which caused their bodies to secrete a whole heap of hormones to cope with the stress which would eventually kill them. There nis therefor a biological explanation for it. Basically they body soul and mind are closely interlinked. One aspect can effect the others. he belief that healing or damage is being done actually selffullfills the belief. So it is not superstition but a way of utilising our full potential.