Rant, Take One - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Jaron · 07-22-2003, 03:34 PM

I hate Christianity.

No... wait. I really, really, really hate Christianity. In fact, not only do I hate Christianity but I also hate Judiasm and Orthodox Grecian Christianity and Islam and Roman Catholicism and Protestantism and whatever the fuck Jehovah's Witnesses believe in and Mormonism and all other related forms of any religion even loosely based off of the "original" Hebraic form of religion. I really, really, really, really, REALLY hate them. All of them. This is beyond dislike, or even petty hatred. This is a pathological, methodological hatred of all things Christian.

Don't get me wrong. Jesus was a cool dude. He was completely full on, he was all about freedom and he actually DID something about it. This one time, for example, in one of the most overkilled, overtold stories in the New Testament (which is what Jesus was actually alive for, or at least parts of it), Jesus was exceedingly more cool than just about anyone else you will have heard of. He waltzes into the temple in Jerusalem, and sees a bunch of wankers selling stuff, so he goes ballistic and tears the place up 'cause he's PISSED at what they're using the temple for. Now that is some pretty crazy stuff.

It's not that I hate Christians, themselves. I don't. I really don't. Hell, I don't even hate Yahweh, Jehova, or whatever the fuck you want to call him. Far be it from me to pass judgement on their great judge after all. (Besides, I don't particularly put all that much intrinsic value in the existance of an almighty All Father Creator or any of that other bullshit.) Far be it from me to judge any of them. In fact, a large number of my friends are Christians, or at least profess to be. Those are some pretty damned cool people.

Here's what I mean: all organized religion, at some point or another, becomes an institution as a matter of course. The very fact that it's an organized group of individuals introduces beurocracy, heirarchy, segregation, segmentation, and all of the other shittyass things that come from institutionalized religion.

The bases for Christianity, I sympathize with. Hell, I even agree with alot of it. The Jews or Hebrews or whatever you want to call them, they were under alot of social and economic pressure. The Romans came in and did what they did, so Jesus popped out of his mother's bloody cunt after popping her cherry for the first time (head first, of course) and changed a few things. He told them about freedom, pacifism, personal beliefs... everything he said, or at least most of what he said, was pretty damned cool.

On the other hand, we don't technically know what he said. All of the gospels were written in retrospect, and hindsight is no clearer than foresight. Peoples' memories generally suck, and twist facts quite frequently. Everything past the gospels, the book of Matthew through to the book of John, should be cut out of the Christian Bible and burned. Everyone who takes those as canonized scripture should be taken to the village square, tied to a stake, and burned as a witch. They really, really should.

My reasoning for this is simple. Everything that Jesus didn't say shouldn't be taken as if Jesus said it. Seriously, most Christians these days put the opinions of the Apostles above what Jesus himself said. As I said before, Jesus was a bloody cool dude. Fully righteous (in the colloquial sense of the word, not the actual one) and all that shit. The apostles were dumbasses. None of them were "God's Holy Son" - how the fuck did they know what they were talking about?

Visions. Of course. I forgot about the visions. Did I tell you about this one time, my friend thought he was talking to his brother when he was tripping on acid, in my bedroom? It was a totally tripped out experience. He was full on hallucinating, and talking to his brother, and exchanging high fives, and doing all sorts of crazy shit that was only crazy because his brother wasn't actually there. Now, what were we saying about visions?

I'm sure you get the point of that. It's all fucking subjective, except for the parts which are supposed to be subjective. It's all a dictatorship, with the pastors and priests and church elders and self-appointed prophets and the evangelists and everyone else telling you that if you don't follow their mighty words, you will burn in the fires of hell. Eh... it's more like this. THOU SHOULDST FOLLOW MINE HOLY WORDS, ELSE YE BURN IN THE ETERNAL LAKES OF FIRE!! Riiight.

Gneh. I hate Christianity.

Sorry. This was bothering me.

MrFlux · 07-22-2003, 03:39 PM

That's alright, they probably hate you too.

Ganguro · 07-22-2003, 04:10 PM

hahaha
*highfives Mr. Flux*

You cant hae an ideal.. you must mean you dislike people who identify themselves as christians.. and even that logic is flawed. You dont dislike all christians.. you dislike certain persons.

Jaron · 07-22-2003, 04:20 PM

It's passed now, but I think what I was trying to say is that I hate what the whole... "Christianity thing" for lack of better words. I mean, what modern Christianity (which is the only Christianity I've seen around, dunno about any of you people, but I'll bet you're not living in the dark ages) stands for.

Besides, I have to live with a family of Christians and a church in my living room - i.e., the rest of my family.

docbungle · 07-22-2003, 04:55 PM

Good for you. Hate, hate, hate. Lovely. Beautifull. Hate Christians because you don't agree with them. Typical.

denim · 07-22-2003, 06:24 PM

Sounds like someone from another board I used to frequent.

Lebell · 07-22-2003, 06:28 PM

Moved to philosophy...

elaphe · 07-22-2003, 08:18 PM

Trying to figure out your rant, Jaron.

You hate organized religion because it's... organized? Hate Judasim, Roman Catholosim, Greek Orthodox, Islam, etc because of it's institutionalized belief system? Don't like the priests, pastors, teachers, rabbi, imans, etc methods of spreading the religion because it's too preachy? Don't like the "holy" books because of the pages?

You hate Christianity and its codex, but agree with and sympathize with Jesus' teachings. How? You want to tear out the gospels because the "tales" they tell are hearsay. Then where are you going to find any recorded teachings of Jesus? Two thousand year old tape recording?

Could it be that your hatred has blinded you to any belief system?

I normally don't berate any poster online, but hatred any intolerance should be ridiculed.

Mantus · 07-22-2003, 09:51 PM

Its all quite simple really. The people you should really hate are politicians. For they are the ones that will go to any lengths to control the populace.

As you said, allot of these religions started with really good concepts. People flocked to them because they saw something beneficial in them. As soon as the religions gained enough popularity with the masses, politicians hijack them for their own purposes. For what better way to get people to do your bidding then to say you are speaking for God.

bermuDa · 07-23-2003, 12:59 AM

I despise organized religion in general, but some good does come out of it. Hate is too strong a word anyways.

rogue49 · 07-23-2003, 04:39 AM

That's why I say I don't do religion,
but I do have faith.

sportsrule101 · 07-23-2003, 08:32 AM

You hate me huh. Well I don't believe I have ever done anything to you, probably never seen or met you either. Just because one religion has hurt you, don't write them all off. Catholics are diffferent then baptists and there diffferent then ect. ect. Do research.

Jaron · 07-23-2003, 09:15 AM

Good point, but it's not so much that the religion or the religious have failed me as I've been influenced by it to try other things.

My views were... erm... phrased a bit strongly, yes. I don't hate the religious, but I do hate the religion. It's my personal belief that everyone's entitled to their own views, and if they just don't bullshit around about it then it's totally fine with me. If someone's got something that gives them hope, something to live for, motivation to get up in the morning, even something that acts as their emotional safety net, then more power to them. That is to say, provided that they actually believe what they're talking about and not fucking around.

Honestly, the root of the problem I have with most religious or spiritual individuals that I meet is that they don't really know what they're talking about. I'll admit that I'm an asshole about it and take merciless advantage of them through their ignorance... but hell, whatever. Specifics for the different religions are different, of course.

Take Christianity, for example.

A few of the problems I have with Christianity, especifically (and I'm picking on Christianity because I know more people belonging to that faith than any other):
1) The general segregationism, in that you're either a "believer" or a "nonbeliever"; even within the entirety of the faith, I've seen a large amount of friction between the different communities, even within the same congregation. The general attitude I've come across among Christians is that "if you're not one of us then you're somehow a lesser person."
2) The lack of faith, especially when things get hard to deal with. I've seen so many people realize that they don't actually really believe in what they were professing to believe in: for example, if they're preaching about the whole "adultery" thing and are caught sleeping with their girlfriend or some whore later that day. What I'm talking about is people who don't hold to what they say, and then try to bullshit their way out of it.
3) The blind faith. So many people take things as they see them simply because they were told to by a higher authority. This doesn't just apply to religions. It applies to a good number of people. This type of person will defend a doctrine or a law to their dying breath simply because it is what they are SUPPOSED to believe. Trying to talk to these people is like trying to talk to an animate brick wall, when the brick wall is bleating something along the lines of "That's just the way things are."

However, I've also got alot of respect for the religion as based on the scriptures. Jesus Christ was talking about basically being a nice guy, putting other people before you (and the local deity before that, but hey... I don't agree with everything, eh?). He was preaching acceptance (not conformity), and saying alot of things that're really actually fucking good. (Incidentally, I have about a dozen different English translations, and have read them all.)

However, the problem I have with this is that so much of what's in the actual Bible relies on interpretation. Having gone to a Christian school in Hong Kong (also having dropped out from there), I was placed in the mandatory Bible class. When I wasn't sleeping or eating, I'd argue constantly with the teacher over points of theology, basically to prove one point: Nobody's interpretation is infallible. Interpretation is entirely subjective, and when it's presented as "The Bible Truth," I get exasperated. Especially when you mix that with blind faith...

Again, this doesn't just apply to Christians. I'm using Christianity as an example because it's the religion that I know best. It applies to general spirituality, religion, and philosophy as well.

And hell... one thing that I've always held to is that I'm probably wrong, so tell me why. Especially the Christians. (Honestly, this is me actually really wanting to know how you see it... not just being a jackass.)

sportsrule101 · 07-23-2003, 12:21 PM

Your talk of hypocracy with believers is so very true. Which is why I hold to only relying on my interpretation of the Bible. My interpretation is probably wrong. But hopefully it will become more and more refined as I learn, through reading books, and talking to "experts" who have devoted their life to trying to figure it out. All of what I learn I try to filter the best way I know how based on certain facts and beliefs I've formed.

Your right on the bickering within groups of "Christians" it is probably the most frusteration thing to those who are trying to learn and grow. All I can do is say that Christians are wrong and twisted in their views, every single one of them, including me. But if you believe in God of some form I believe you owe it to yourself to learn as much as you can about Him. Those who say things are that way just because they are, have stopped "growing" and are content with the way things are in their mind.
One last thing before I go home for the day, I was wondering what "religion" or denomination you were part of.
Thanks

Jaron · 07-23-2003, 02:56 PM

I, myself, am... well, nothing in particular. Honestly, I don't know what I believe. I just know what I DON'T believe. You could probably tag me as some sort of agnostic, or possibly an atheist. It's sort of a result of having learned far too much about far too many religions, spiritualities, faiths, and philosophies all at one time (that time being when I "fell away" from Christianity).

Anyways, you see bickering in just about any group you go to. Politics, religion, social systems, philosophies... anything and everything that people can bitch at other people about, they'll bitch.

Generally, I tend to be more of an anarchistic thinker myself. I figure that everyone should make up their own damned minds, and keep them open. If anyone ever becomes entirely set it their ways, I disapprove. I think that everyone should keep "improving" themselves, 'cause hell... nobody's ever going to be perfect, but at least we can try. My personal goal, which I know that I will never achieve, is to become omniscient. I'm always looking out for new philosophies and belief systems, so that I can take what I see as the good bits out of them and incorporate them into my own belief sets. This does, of course, mean that I don't entirely believe in any absolutes. Good, evil... light, dark... whatever you want to call them, I don't think they exist. At least not as we know them.

In any case, I used to be a Christian.

Now I'm not.

sportsrule101 · 07-24-2003, 04:50 AM

Just don't ever be content, always keep striving. Thats about all i can say because thats all i can do in my life.
One last thing is that i'm pretty sure that
Sometime the truth hurts though. Its not always a plesant thing or what we want to hear.

anti fishstick · 07-24-2003, 10:20 PM

you know i went through your hatred phase. i ventured away from christianity and saw how futile it all was and became angered becuse people actually believe this shit.. now i'm a lot more tolerant and a lot more accepting of ALL religions. i think all religions are a vehicle to the same path.. its just the details people are hung up over and fight about. i'm more pissed when certain religions teach intolerance.. so i try not to be that way. in any event this more peaceful attitude towards religion came when i immersed myself in eastern philosophy. buddhism/zen/taoism etc. i think you're just struggling with what you DON'T believe and need to find some sort of calm between the two. don't make religion a personal attack based on your own experiences... hatred is such a negative emotion. you've already established what you DON'T believe.. why not find something you do?

Jaron · 07-25-2003, 03:54 PM

See... I don't hate the actual religion, or any other religion for that matter. I don't hate the religious, either. What I DO hate are the institutions that have been built around those religions, where it's a government and heirarchy rather than a group of people who believe the same thing and try to learn. What I DO hate is that many religions take away, many times subversively, what little freedom people don't even realize that they have and give the illusion of both freedom and emotional/spiritual power instead of the reality of it.

Of course, there are always the good points, but if you can't come by those without the religion... ?

Lebell · 07-25-2003, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaron
See... I don't hate the actual religion, or any other religion for that matter. I don't hate the religious, either. What I DO hate are the institutions that have been built around those religions, where it's a government and heirarchy rather than a group of people who believe the same thing and try to learn. What I DO hate is that many religions take away, many times subversively, what little freedom people don't even realize that they have and give the illusion of both freedom and emotional/spiritual power instead of the reality of it.

Of course, there are always the good points, but if you can't come by those without the religion... ?

Interesting points, and when you put it that way, we are in complete agreement.

07-22-2003, 03:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jaron Crazy Location: Hong Kong.	Rant, Take One I hate Christianity. No... wait. I really, really, really hate Christianity. In fact, not only do I hate Christianity but I also hate Judiasm and Orthodox Grecian Christianity and Islam and Roman Catholicism and Protestantism and whatever the fuck Jehovah's Witnesses believe in and Mormonism and all other related forms of any religion even loosely based off of the "original" Hebraic form of religion. I really, really, really, really, REALLY hate them. All of them. This is beyond dislike, or even petty hatred. This is a pathological, methodological hatred of all things Christian. Don't get me wrong. Jesus was a cool dude. He was completely full on, he was all about freedom and he actually DID something about it. This one time, for example, in one of the most overkilled, overtold stories in the New Testament (which is what Jesus was actually alive for, or at least parts of it), Jesus was exceedingly more cool than just about anyone else you will have heard of. He waltzes into the temple in Jerusalem, and sees a bunch of wankers selling stuff, so he goes ballistic and tears the place up 'cause he's PISSED at what they're using the temple for. Now that is some pretty crazy stuff. It's not that I hate Christians, themselves. I don't. I really don't. Hell, I don't even hate Yahweh, Jehova, or whatever the fuck you want to call him. Far be it from me to pass judgement on their great judge after all. (Besides, I don't particularly put all that much intrinsic value in the existance of an almighty All Father Creator or any of that other bullshit.) Far be it from me to judge any of them. In fact, a large number of my friends are Christians, or at least profess to be. Those are some pretty damned cool people. Here's what I mean: all organized religion, at some point or another, becomes an institution as a matter of course. The very fact that it's an organized group of individuals introduces beurocracy, heirarchy, segregation, segmentation, and all of the other shittyass things that come from institutionalized religion. The bases for Christianity, I sympathize with. Hell, I even agree with alot of it. The Jews or Hebrews or whatever you want to call them, they were under alot of social and economic pressure. The Romans came in and did what they did, so Jesus popped out of his mother's bloody cunt after popping her cherry for the first time (head first, of course) and changed a few things. He told them about freedom, pacifism, personal beliefs... everything he said, or at least most of what he said, was pretty damned cool. On the other hand, we don't technically know what he said. All of the gospels were written in retrospect, and hindsight is no clearer than foresight. Peoples' memories generally suck, and twist facts quite frequently. Everything past the gospels, the book of Matthew through to the book of John, should be cut out of the Christian Bible and burned. Everyone who takes those as canonized scripture should be taken to the village square, tied to a stake, and burned as a witch. They really, really should. My reasoning for this is simple. Everything that Jesus didn't say shouldn't be taken as if Jesus said it. Seriously, most Christians these days put the opinions of the Apostles above what Jesus himself said. As I said before, Jesus was a bloody cool dude. Fully righteous (in the colloquial sense of the word, not the actual one) and all that shit. The apostles were dumbasses. None of them were "God's Holy Son" - how the fuck did they know what they were talking about? Visions. Of course. I forgot about the visions. Did I tell you about this one time, my friend thought he was talking to his brother when he was tripping on acid, in my bedroom? It was a totally tripped out experience. He was full on hallucinating, and talking to his brother, and exchanging high fives, and doing all sorts of crazy shit that was only crazy because his brother wasn't actually there. Now, what were we saying about visions? I'm sure you get the point of that. It's all fucking subjective, except for the parts which are supposed to be subjective. It's all a dictatorship, with the pastors and priests and church elders and self-appointed prophets and the evangelists and everyone else telling you that if you don't follow their mighty words, you will burn in the fires of hell. Eh... it's more like this. THOU SHOULDST FOLLOW MINE HOLY WORDS, ELSE YE BURN IN THE ETERNAL LAKES OF FIRE!! Riiight. Gneh. I hate Christianity. Sorry. This was bothering me.

07-22-2003, 03:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
MrFlux Fluxing wildly... Location: Auckland, New Zealand	That's alright, they probably hate you too. __________________ flux (n.) Medicine. The discharge of large quantities of fluid material from the body, especially the discharge of watery feces from the intestines.

07-22-2003, 06:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Moved to philosophy... __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

07-22-2003, 08:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
elaphe Tilted Location: British Columbia, Canada	Trying to figure out your rant, Jaron. You hate organized religion because it's... organized? Hate Judasim, Roman Catholosim, Greek Orthodox, Islam, etc because of it's institutionalized belief system? Don't like the priests, pastors, teachers, rabbi, imans, etc methods of spreading the religion because it's too preachy? Don't like the "holy" books because of the pages? You hate Christianity and its codex, but agree with and sympathize with Jesus' teachings. How? You want to tear out the gospels because the "tales" they tell are hearsay. Then where are you going to find any recorded teachings of Jesus? Two thousand year old tape recording? Could it be that your hatred has blinded you to any belief system? I normally don't berate any poster online, but hatred any intolerance should be ridiculed. __________________ "Forty-two," said Deep Thought, with infinite majesty and calm. Last edited by elaphe; 07-22-2003 at 08:20 PM..

07-23-2003, 12:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	I despise organized religion in general, but some good does come out of it. Hate is too strong a word anyways. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

07-22-2003, 04:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ganguro Army of Me	hahaha highfives Mr. Flux You cant hae an ideal.. you must mean you dislike people who identify themselves as christians.. and even that logic is flawed. You dont dislike all christians.. you dislike certain persons.

07-22-2003, 04:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jaron Crazy Location: Hong Kong.	It's passed now, but I think what I was trying to say is that I hate what the whole... "Christianity thing" for lack of better words. I mean, what modern Christianity (which is the only Christianity I've seen around, dunno about any of you people, but I'll bet you're not living in the dark ages) stands for. Besides, I have to live with a family of Christians and a church in my living room - i.e., the rest of my family.

07-22-2003, 04:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	Good for you. Hate, hate, hate. Lovely. Beautifull. Hate Christians because you don't agree with them. Typical.

07-22-2003, 06:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	Sounds like someone from another board I used to frequent.

07-22-2003, 09:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mantus lascivious	Its all quite simple really. The people you should really hate are politicians. For they are the ones that will go to any lengths to control the populace. As you said, allot of these religions started with really good concepts. People flocked to them because they saw something beneficial in them. As soon as the religions gained enough popularity with the masses, politicians hijack them for their own purposes. For what better way to get people to do your bidding then to say you are speaking for God.

07-23-2003, 04:39 AM	#11 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	That's why I say I don't do religion, but I do have faith.

07-23-2003, 08:32 AM	#12 (permalink)
sportsrule101 Insane	You hate me huh. Well I don't believe I have ever done anything to you, probably never seen or met you either. Just because one religion has hurt you, don't write them all off. Catholics are diffferent then baptists and there diffferent then ect. ect. Do research. __________________ winning isn't everything but losing isn't anything

07-23-2003, 09:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
Jaron Crazy Location: Hong Kong.	Good point, but it's not so much that the religion or the religious have failed me as I've been influenced by it to try other things. My views were... erm... phrased a bit strongly, yes. I don't hate the religious, but I do hate the religion. It's my personal belief that everyone's entitled to their own views, and if they just don't bullshit around about it then it's totally fine with me. If someone's got something that gives them hope, something to live for, motivation to get up in the morning, even something that acts as their emotional safety net, then more power to them. That is to say, provided that they actually believe what they're talking about and not fucking around. Honestly, the root of the problem I have with most religious or spiritual individuals that I meet is that they don't really know what they're talking about. I'll admit that I'm an asshole about it and take merciless advantage of them through their ignorance... but hell, whatever. Specifics for the different religions are different, of course. Take Christianity, for example. A few of the problems I have with Christianity, especifically (and I'm picking on Christianity because I know more people belonging to that faith than any other): 1) The general segregationism, in that you're either a "believer" or a "nonbeliever"; even within the entirety of the faith, I've seen a large amount of friction between the different communities, even within the same congregation. The general attitude I've come across among Christians is that "if you're not one of us then you're somehow a lesser person." 2) The lack of faith, especially when things get hard to deal with. I've seen so many people realize that they don't actually really believe in what they were professing to believe in: for example, if they're preaching about the whole "adultery" thing and are caught sleeping with their girlfriend or some whore later that day. What I'm talking about is people who don't hold to what they say, and then try to bullshit their way out of it. 3) The blind faith. So many people take things as they see them simply because they were told to by a higher authority. This doesn't just apply to religions. It applies to a good number of people. This type of person will defend a doctrine or a law to their dying breath simply because it is what they are SUPPOSED to believe. Trying to talk to these people is like trying to talk to an animate brick wall, when the brick wall is bleating something along the lines of "That's just the way things are." However, I've also got alot of respect for the religion as based on the scriptures. Jesus Christ was talking about basically being a nice guy, putting other people before you (and the local deity before that, but hey... I don't agree with everything, eh?). He was preaching acceptance (not conformity), and saying alot of things that're really actually fucking good. (Incidentally, I have about a dozen different English translations, and have read them all.) However, the problem I have with this is that so much of what's in the actual Bible relies on interpretation. Having gone to a Christian school in Hong Kong (also having dropped out from there), I was placed in the mandatory Bible class. When I wasn't sleeping or eating, I'd argue constantly with the teacher over points of theology, basically to prove one point: Nobody's interpretation is infallible. Interpretation is entirely subjective, and when it's presented as "The Bible Truth," I get exasperated. Especially when you mix that with blind faith... Again, this doesn't just apply to Christians. I'm using Christianity as an example because it's the religion that I know best. It applies to general spirituality, religion, and philosophy as well. And hell... one thing that I've always held to is that I'm probably wrong, so tell me why. Especially the Christians. (Honestly, this is me actually really wanting to know how you see it... not just being a jackass.)

07-23-2003, 12:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
sportsrule101 Insane	Your talk of hypocracy with believers is so very true. Which is why I hold to only relying on my interpretation of the Bible. My interpretation is probably wrong. But hopefully it will become more and more refined as I learn, through reading books, and talking to "experts" who have devoted their life to trying to figure it out. All of what I learn I try to filter the best way I know how based on certain facts and beliefs I've formed. Your right on the bickering within groups of "Christians" it is probably the most frusteration thing to those who are trying to learn and grow. All I can do is say that Christians are wrong and twisted in their views, every single one of them, including me. But if you believe in God of some form I believe you owe it to yourself to learn as much as you can about Him. Those who say things are that way just because they are, have stopped "growing" and are content with the way things are in their mind. One last thing before I go home for the day, I was wondering what "religion" or denomination you were part of. Thanks __________________ winning isn't everything but losing isn't anything

07-23-2003, 02:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jaron Crazy Location: Hong Kong.	I, myself, am... well, nothing in particular. Honestly, I don't know what I believe. I just know what I DON'T believe. You could probably tag me as some sort of agnostic, or possibly an atheist. It's sort of a result of having learned far too much about far too many religions, spiritualities, faiths, and philosophies all at one time (that time being when I "fell away" from Christianity). Anyways, you see bickering in just about any group you go to. Politics, religion, social systems, philosophies... anything and everything that people can bitch at other people about, they'll bitch. Generally, I tend to be more of an anarchistic thinker myself. I figure that everyone should make up their own damned minds, and keep them open. If anyone ever becomes entirely set it their ways, I disapprove. I think that everyone should keep "improving" themselves, 'cause hell... nobody's ever going to be perfect, but at least we can try. My personal goal, which I know that I will never achieve, is to become omniscient. I'm always looking out for new philosophies and belief systems, so that I can take what I see as the good bits out of them and incorporate them into my own belief sets. This does, of course, mean that I don't entirely believe in any absolutes. Good, evil... light, dark... whatever you want to call them, I don't think they exist. At least not as we know them. In any case, I used to be a Christian. Now I'm not.

07-24-2003, 04:50 AM	#16 (permalink)
sportsrule101 Insane	Just don't ever be content, always keep striving. Thats about all i can say because thats all i can do in my life. One last thing is that i'm pretty sure that Sometime the truth hurts though. Its not always a plesant thing or what we want to hear. __________________ winning isn't everything but losing isn't anything

07-24-2003, 10:20 PM	#17 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	you know i went through your hatred phase. i ventured away from christianity and saw how futile it all was and became angered becuse people actually believe this shit.. now i'm a lot more tolerant and a lot more accepting of ALL religions. i think all religions are a vehicle to the same path.. its just the details people are hung up over and fight about. i'm more pissed when certain religions teach intolerance.. so i try not to be that way. in any event this more peaceful attitude towards religion came when i immersed myself in eastern philosophy. buddhism/zen/taoism etc. i think you're just struggling with what you DON'T believe and need to find some sort of calm between the two. don't make religion a personal attack based on your own experiences... hatred is such a negative emotion. you've already established what you DON'T believe.. why not find something you do? __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

07-25-2003, 03:54 PM	#18 (permalink)
Jaron Crazy Location: Hong Kong.	See... I don't hate the actual religion, or any other religion for that matter. I don't hate the religious, either. What I DO hate are the institutions that have been built around those religions, where it's a government and heirarchy rather than a group of people who believe the same thing and try to learn. What I DO hate is that many religions take away, many times subversively, what little freedom people don't even realize that they have and give the illusion of both freedom and emotional/spiritual power instead of the reality of it. Of course, there are always the good points, but if you can't come by those without the religion... ?