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Old 03-24-2007, 07:53 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
On numerous occasions you have stated that the statistical probability of God existing is minuscule that it's safe to assume he doesn't exist. I'm simply asking you to defend that point through scientific reasoning (Which is what you're basing your argument on, anyway).
No evidence exists to suggest that any god or gods are real, therefore the absolute belief in god is unreasonable. Ir's more an argument of reason than science, but I feel it adequately explains my thoughts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
1.) If God were to exist, then there would be good objective evidence for that.
2.) There is, however, no good objective evidence for God's existence.
3.) Therefore, God probably doesn't exist.
For everything that we know, there is proof. The supernatural by definition doesn't have scientific proof. Therefore, the supernatural cannot be known.

Doesn't that make sense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
I know that I've said this before, but not having evidence for something is not proof that something is not nor cannot be true. Similarly, merely not having evidence for a particular proposition is not proof that an alternative proposition is instead the case-- It is in fact simply lack of evidence, and nothing more (Wikipedia).

Your position is no more 'logical' than mine.
Of course it is. Would you care to tell me how absolute belief in god is as logical than looking at evidence and coming to the reasonable conclusion that god probably doesn't exist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
I don't believe I ever said that one was more likely than the other, but rather that I believe in the Judeo-Christian God more so than I believe in Zeus.
And why is that? Why do you believe in the Judeo-Christian god and not Zeus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Trying to use science to explain religious beliefs/phenomena is rather problematic, wouldn't you say? Religion explains the 'who' and 'why' while science typically tries to answer the 'how'.
Something without how is something to be skeptical about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
I said that your experience was wrong? Find it. I believe I said that you can't qualify other people's experiences based on your own, which you were trying to do.
I was explaining my experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
The only way to not fall into one of those two categories is to make no conclusions regarding the existence of God either way. Anyway, I don't believe I've ever claimed my argument to be logical (By scientific standards) and I'm perfectly happy to admit that my beliefs contradict what science knows about the natural world. You, however, claim to base your argument on scientific reasoning yet the conclusions you make exist outside the realm in which science is able to estimate (See link above).
That's because while there is no evidence to suggest that god is real, there is evidence to suggest that god isn't real. Remember my first post? Avoid this all you want, but it's pretty clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Didn't I, like, already explain this?

Your argument against the existence of God relies heavily on the premise that, while you might not be able to disprove God's existence today, tomorrow you might know more than you know today and thus be able to disprove his existence (Stop me now if I'm wrong).
You're wrong. I didn't take sides on the future concept of discovering god. We may prove his existence or we may discover that he's fiction. That's speculation. The point is that based on all evidence today, the only reasonable conclusion one can come to is that god probably doesn't exist. When more information becomes available, then we can change the conclusion as necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Such an argument simply avoids the fact that science will never be able to make claims regarding God's existence one way or the other. With that being said, I believe God to be inexplicable. As I'm sure you're well aware, two contradictory statements (Or in this case, beliefs) can't both be true; Either God can be explained or he can't be explained. The growing inability to explain/rationalize God only serves to support my claim that God is unexplainable.
How very unscientific of you. How could you be so arrogant as to say that god is unprovable? You believe god to be inexplicable....well I'm sure there were plenty of people who thought that the sun was inexplicable at one time. They were wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
You continued the discussion, even though I clearly stated that it was slightly off-topic and better suited for a thread of it's own.
Explain the argument's merit and reasoning or take it back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
I didn't say you won't find any atheists from different ethnic backgrounds (As you seemingly believe I said), but rather that the majority of atheists do stem from a singular background.
And you have absolutely no evidence to support that racist claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
You can't call me on anything when I specifically stated (Before you replied, mind you), "Slightly off-topic, but I've always wondered why atheism is most prevalent in non-minorities. I guess, however, that's another topic for another day."
Oh how dare I question your claim? I should naturally assume that anything that is qualified with "slightly off topic" is true beyond question.
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:05 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Godless thumping and bible savages: I think you're beating a dead horse and have long since been reacting to each other's words rather than your sincere thoughts! Please reconsider.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:43 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
No evidence exists to suggest that any god or gods are real, therefore the absolute belief in god is unreasonable. Ir's more an argument of reason than science, but I feel it adequately explains my thoughts.
Explain to me how an absolute belief in God is unreasonable without having to resort to the "Well, there's no evidence of his existence!" argument (Which is fallacious in nature)?

Quote:
For everything that we know, there is proof. The supernatural by definition doesn't have scientific proof. Therefore, the supernatural cannot be known.

Doesn't that make sense?
...Didn't I state the same thing around thirty responses or so? I'm glad you finally came to this conclusion (Better late than never).

Quote:
Of course it is. Would you care to tell me how absolute belief in god is as logical than looking at evidence and coming to the reasonable conclusion that god probably doesn't exist?
No, your position isn't any more 'logical' than mine is. Conversely, you'll find that I've never made a claim stating that my position is any more 'logical' than any position anyone can take regarding the non-existence of God. You, however, have (On numerous occasions) stated that a disbelief in God is more rational than a belief in God as a lack of proof for existence is apparently the same thing as proof of non-existence (Which, as I'm sure you know by now, isn't the same thing).

To make use of Wiki again, such an argument is generally classified as an argument from ignorance.

Quote:
And why is that? Why do you believe in the Judeo-Christian god and not Zeus?
Quite simply because I do (I know what you're getting at and I've already acknowledged that they both have about the same chance of existing as the other).

Quote:
Something without how is something to be skeptical about.
It's nothing to be skeptical about because, once again, science can't qualify religious beliefs and vice versa. Doing so will inevitably lead to problems (As seen in atheists trying to rationalize God's existence based on scientific evidence-- Or a lack thereof).

Quote:
I was explaining my experience.
No, you were trying to pass off your 'experiences' as absolutes.

Quote:
That's because while there is no evidence to suggest that god is real, there is evidence to suggest that god isn't real. Remember my first post? Avoid this all you want, but it's pretty clear.
There's evidence to suggest that God isn't real? Really...? Where is it? I'm really praying that your 'evidence' isn't a 'lack of evidence'.

Quote:
You're wrong. I didn't take sides on the future concept of discovering god. We may prove his existence or we may discover that he's fiction. That's speculation. The point is that based on all evidence today, the only reasonable conclusion one can come to is that god probably doesn't exist. When more information becomes available, then we can change the conclusion as necessary.
I will continue to say this until you finally understand, but the MOST science can state regarding the God is that He might exist outside the absence of scientific evidence.

That's it. Nothing more and nothing less. Any other claims you make regarding God and science are wrong. Plain and simple. End of story. Sorry.

Quote:
How very unscientific of you. How could you be so arrogant as to say that god is unprovable? You believe god to be inexplicable....well I'm sure there were plenty of people who thought that the sun was inexplicable at one time. They were wrong.
Ummm... Hypocrite? Didn't you just state:

Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
For everything that we know, there is proof. The supernatural by definition doesn't have scientific proof. Therefore, the supernatural cannot be known.
Yes, I believe God to be inexplicable. You, yourself, acknowledged that God is supernatural and that the supernatural can't be explained so why are you now trying to take that statement back?

Quote:
Explain the argument's merit and reasoning or take it back.

And you have absolutely no evidence to support that racist claim.
...Are you seriously serious about having no evidence? Ok... How about I make you a deal? I'll start a new topic and we can go debate it there (Since, after all, I did state it a topic for discussion in a new thread)?

And racist claim? Pffft! "Godless whites! You're all going to Hell with your devil worshiping selves!" would be a racist remark

Quote:
Oh how dare I question your claim? I should naturally assume that anything that is qualified with "slightly off topic" is true beyond question.
...Right. That response makes a whole world of sense. I feel as if I'm typing responses out for my own personal viewing pleasure.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:48 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Can I bum a cig??? Anyone???
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:57 PM   #45 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Explain to me how an absolute belief in God is unreasonable without having to resort to the "Well, there's no evidence of his existence!" argument (Which is fallacious in nature)?
Absolute belief in something without any evidence to support it's existence is simply illogical. It's not a fallacy, it's reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
No, your position isn't any more 'logical' than mine is. Conversely, you'll find that I've never made a claim stating that my position is any more 'logical' than any position anyone can take regarding the non-existence of God. You, however, have (On numerous occasions) stated that a disbelief in God is more rational than a belief in God as a lack of proof for existence is apparently the same thing as proof of non-existence (Which, as I'm sure you know by now, isn't the same thing).
So you're going to ignore the fact that I'm an agnostic atheist. That's super.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
To make use of Wiki again, such an argument is generally classified as an argument from ignorance.
Yes, your position is an argumentum ad ignorantiam. Again, and for the last time, I am an agnostic atheist. I recognize that god might exist. If that's not clear enough for you, please let me know what you're native language is so we can get on the same page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Quite simply because I do (I know what you're getting at and I've already acknowledged that they both have about the same chance of existing as the other).
No reason, eh? Check and mate. Now king me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
It's nothing to be skeptical about because, once again, science can't qualify religious beliefs and vice versa. Doing so will inevitably lead to problems (As seen in atheists trying to rationalize God's existence based on scientific evidence-- Or a lack thereof).
There is either real or not real. Everything real has, is, or will be covered by science. As you seem to think that god will never be covered by science, that makes god not real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
No, you were trying to pass of your 'experiences' as absolutes.
Do you have anything to disprove my experience? Maybe an experience of your own, at least? No?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
There's evidence to suggest that God isn't real? Really...? Where is it? I'm really praying that your 'evidence' isn't a 'lack of evidence'.
There's evidence that god is something else, namely fiction. Didn't you read my first post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
I will continue to say this until you finally understand, but the MOST science can state regarding the God is that He might exist outside the absence of scientific evidence.
Freeze yourself until science is finished, then get back to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
That's it. Nothing more and nothing less. Any other claims you make regarding God and science are wrong. Plain and simple. End of story. Sorry.
It must be frustrating having to resort to the "I'm right and you're wrong" argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Ummm... Hypocrite? Didn't you just state:
You not understanding my post hardly makes me a hypocrite. I clearly meant that god is fiction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
...Are you seriously serious about having no evidence? Ok... How about I make you a deal? I'll start a new topic and we can go debate it there (Since, after all, I did state it a topic for discussion in a new thread)?
Present evidence of your claim or take it back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
And racist claim? Pffft! "Godless whites! You're all going to Hell with your devil worshiping selves!" would be a racist remark
You're religious, right? So, in your mind, religious people are better than atheists, right? So you saying that most atheists are white is racist. Jeez.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
...Right. That response makes a whole world of sense. I feel as if I'm typing responses out for my own personal viewing pleasure.
You made a bullshit claim, and when I asked you to back it up you said no. Grow up. Either the claim has merit, and you can supply a source of evidence, or the claim is baseless, and you can't. I've not seen evidence, so the claim currently has no merit.

If I were to jump into a thread in politics and say, "All black people vote Democrat", I'd be called on it. People would say, "Oh yeah? Prove it!" When I couldn't prove it, which I couldn't because it's obviously not true, people would learn to ignore the claim. Actually, they might even learn to ignore me.
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