WindGillsPlease

Of these four traits of the universe -Order, Uniqueness, Fluidness, and Relationships- Which is most Constant?

When do these catagories overlap? when do they diverge? What's left out from these catagories?

Is the universe first of all built out of Order?
All Nature, with enough understanding, breaks down into building blocks, and physical laws.
-Structure of the Atom from quarks to protons to specific electron shell energies, etc.
-consisant form of electrical charges, or magnetic feilds
-The periodic table
-The formation of Galaxies, solar systems, Planets
-Formation of protein Chains, Carbon Chains, Compounds, etc.
-The distintively progressive animal kingdom
-Matter is neither created nor destroyed, it is rearranged
-Social heirarchies among mammals
-Bee hives, flocks of birds, uniform cells
-sound waves, shock waves, water waves, Sand dune patterns
-viewing cities from an airplane or space
-Male and Female parts among Most species
-Dna to build life
etc. etc.

Is the Universe's most abundant characteristic Uniqueness?
Despite the fact nature repeats itself endlessly, it personifies itself as insanely untired to continue to create uniqueness in
Grass
Snowflakes
Planets
Fingerprints
Personalities
People
Dogs
Muts
leaves
Cells
bacteria
trees
seasons
species
etc etc. -with no two of anything ever being completely identical


Is the Nature of the Universe mostly Fluid?
It seems that as a liquid has some form to it, will fill the shape of it's container, and also exibit motion, so does the universe.

-the universe is expanding, and everything in it is moving, rotation, colliding, boiling, cooling ...etc
-We know from life that
-species change over time
-climate changes
-Every living thing grows, moves, dies
-seasons
-thinking sturcture and conciousness
-culture
-bateria
-adaptation
-states of matter
-electons shifting in energy shells
....etc.

OR, lastly, is the universe mostly dependant on Relationships?
Everything is Related.
Symbiotic relationships
Preditor-pray
proton-neutorn-electron etc
Chemical bonds
magentism
The Gravity of one object on another
Ecology
nucleous, mitochondria, Rna, etc... parts of the cell
life eats or breaks down something else for energy
Family (human and animal)
society
Cooperation
competion
etc.... etc...



If we find any of these catagory are reliable, have we begun to understand absolutes?

__________________
Lungs are logical standing on the ground- I ask also for Gills- That I may thrive, and not suffocate in the atmosphere of dreams.

Zeraph

I changed my mind with what I was going to post. I'm going to withhold it until you make your own opinion. That is the custom here. Besides, this looks too much like homework.

nezmot

If forced - I'd go for relationships. It is the relationships between lots of different particles that makes a body of fluid - it is the relationship between opposing forces that builds order - and it is the relationship between items interacting - over time - and the way that those relationships accumulate a history - that makes things unique.

Unfortunately, you can't describe relationships in terms of absolutes - relationships are, by definition, relative.

WindGillsPlease

Zeraph,
Thank you for checking me. I don't intend to trap people in their words just to make fools of them. If you don't want to answer, that's fine. I've also thought about it, and I can't say I have an answer. Maybe the thoughts were still good for us.

Nezmot,
If forced at gun point, I'd probably say relationships to save my life, But also because it's the one I want to be true the most.

What do you mean relationships are relative?
One relationship is Relative to itself? That doesn't say anything. We need another "anything" to messure it's relative properties.

Each relationship is relative to other relationships? Again, That could be true, but we still need to bring in some other thing to messure the shifting values of relationships.

I think Relationships are absolute, but only while they last. While a proton and neutron are drawn into a nucleus, they have a relationship. absolutely. We can see it. If they break away and their bonds are broken, that relationship isn't there. ...But, then you look at them again and say, "no, LOOK, I can see it, they are both crossing the galaxy! That's a relationship!" From there, you infer that it's the SAME relationship that CHANGED because it's RELATIVE. But, You changed your focus.
'Relationship' is a human thought device. so is order, so is unique, so is fluid. I do believe our words try very hard to describe what we see, but WE change, We change focus. I think absolutes were always there.

But if you say, how can a relationship that doesn't last be absolute? I say, because it's true also that the universe is fluid.

...Which is not an answer for some.

which is why I wouldn't answer unless I was at gun point. Hopefully the mad man was satified and let me go.

__________________
Lungs are logical standing on the ground- I ask also for Gills- That I may thrive, and not suffocate in the atmosphere of dreams.

nezmot

This is going to start sounding mystical - but bear with me please.
I mean that a relationship is the relation between different things. Hence, a relationship describes how two things relate. That is why it is relative.

That's not particularly interesting - UNTIL you come to realise that most things we call discrete objects - i.e. atoms, stones, cells, planets, light, sound, gravity - everything - when you look closely enough is actually created through the interaction, or relationships between something else. When you look closer at those other things, they two appear to be born out of the relationship between yet further things, all the way down until everything becomes too subtle for us to see them any more.

WindGillsPlease

I like that, and I agree, sort of...

I think it's interesting that we can't even make a case for one trait, without using it's Relationship to another trait. But, we can prove and disprove the priority relationships with one sentance- Without two unique objects (themselves arranged of smaller objects) There would never be a relationship, and a relationship wouldn't be relative if the universe wasn't fluid.

It's seems that these are pillars of traits holding up the universe, if we remove one, the whole thing falls. But, that's structure of these traits and therefore Order again. on and on....

It seems the only way out is to say that order, uniqueness, fluidness, and Relationships are all True in the universe. There must be something deeper between them called Truth.

__________________
Lungs are logical standing on the ground- I ask also for Gills- That I may thrive, and not suffocate in the atmosphere of dreams.

Zeraph

I think it is a mistake to look at it like theyre actually seperate parts, but rather look at it as a whole. It's like the different states of water, liquid, solid, and gas. It would be a fallacy to assume we can take away one. They exist as one, they only seem seperate because we give them our labels.

Or it's like looking at different parts of the universe with different lenses, they are really apples and oranges. It doesn't make sense to say the universe is more one thing, unless you mean it metaphorically, from your own POV and experiences. If the latter was the case then for me it would be most fluid, cyclical process.

This difference being it looks this way to me, but I know it is colored by my experiences, subjective, and not an objective view of the world.

If youre going to say, duh zeraph, of course I meant it subjectively, then sorry, but this is the way I answer it.

WindGillsPlease

yeah... Exactly right.

The question is pointless here. we could go around and around looking at it subjectively, arguing about our viewpoints, whatever....

But here's why I wanted to post:

Once we say that each is vaild, and part of a whole, I think we must concede that there is something by which we are judging the whole, that is not relative.

__________________
Lungs are logical standing on the ground- I ask also for Gills- That I may thrive, and not suffocate in the atmosphere of dreams.