Major 911 Oddities Revealed In NY Firehouse Documentary - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

asshopo · 03-11-2004, 07:19 AM

Interesting read I got from a yahoo group posting.

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2002/03/912.shtml

Quote:

Major 911 Oddities Revealed In
NY Firehouse Documentary
From Top View
top_viewer@yahoo.com
3-31-2

On March 11, 6 months after the September 11 destruction of the World Trade Center, CBS aired a film consisting largely of documentary footage on the firefighters of the FDNY's Engine 7, Ladder 1. Engine 7's firehouse is just several blocks from the WTC.

The footage was taken by a team of two French brothers, Jules and Gedeon Naudet, who'd begun their documentary on the life and times of these particular firemen some days before.

The firefighters of Engine 7 -- all of whom ended up at ground zero on September 11 -- by incredible grace, and maybe luck, all survived and lived to see another day... And many of their days since September 11 have been spent searching for the bodies of their lost comrades and the many, many other victims at ground zero.

Truly significant -- indeed crucial -- oddities, anomalies and flagrantly irreconcilable contradictions with the "official" "version" of the staggering WTC devastation are brought forth in this film, which serve to further prove the UTTER FALSITY of the federal government/Bush administration/mass media's threadbare official lies on nearly every single important aspect of this tremendous, horrific tragedy.

** First and foremost

Right off the bat, we smell something fishy in the fact that on September 11 at 8:30 AM Engine 7 -- the fire station closest to the World Trade Center -- received what turned out to be a spurious report of an "odor of gas" about a half-mile AWAY from the WTC to the north. This potentially serious but false report served to take the 7th Battalion's chief Joe Pfeiffer and a crew TRAINED in dealing with explosive/incendiary conditions AWAY from the Trade Center location... at the EXACT TIME the first plane impacted the tower.

However: nearly every member of this crew including filmmaker Jules Naudet, who filmed it, watched from the street with horrifying clarity at 8:46 as the first plane made a dead-on beeline for WTC tower one and smacked right into it.

** Second

Ranking NYC fire official Chief Pfeiffer notified higher authorities WITHIN MOMENTS of the plane's impact that the incident was CLEARLY a deliberate attack; an intentional act of mass death and devastation. As the small crew that had eye-witnessed the first plane hit the WTC was racing to the location, Chief Pfeiffer sounded red alerts over the radio and phone; specifically stating that what they witnessed was a "DIRECT ATTACK," that the plane was clearly being directed straight at the building and the incident was definitely NOT any kind of accident.

THUS: If, by some unimaginable combination of sheer stupidity, criminal incompetence, negligence, ineptitude and apparent MASSIVE concurrent near-unilateral failure of a number of (semi-)automatic air defense warning and alert systems, US government/military authorities charged with defending and patrolling the nation's airspace had somehow FAILED to have become aware of a SERIOUSLY suspicious and threatening ongoing situation occurring over the skies of the eastern US with a number of large, fully-fueled passenger jets OBVIOUSLY being in serious trouble and/or under hostile control and TOTALLY out of communication with aviation authorities, then they had a DEFINITE official report that this WAS the case once Chief Pfeiffer radioed in his red alert. The intervening TWENTY MINUTES that elapsed before the second plane hit the south WTC tower was MORE than enough time for interceptors to have reached ground zero from Air Guard bases barely TEN minutes away at LESS than maximum speed.

Now we have solid proof that a NYC fire official who EYE-WITNESSED the first plane hit the WTC DID inform higher authorities that the incident was CLEARLY A HOSTILE ATTACK!!

WHY, THEN, WAS OUR MULTI-TRILLION DOLLAR AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM NOT AT SUCH TIME IMMEDIATELY ACTIVATED, if it had somehow NOT been activated SOONER?!

What's also worth noting is that even as Pfeiffer and the others were speeding downtown, the main fireball from the exploding jet fuel had almost completely dissipated and the flames had subsided significantly, as is visible in the footage taken then by Jules Naudet.

** Third

When the above-noted fire crew and cameraman Jules Naudet arrived at WTC's tower one along with other fire crews and entered the building's ground floor lobby, they were to a one completely puzzled -- actually astonished -- to find SIGNIFICANT and widespread damage to the entire lobby area; although NOT of a deep, structural kind. Moreover, NOWHERE was there ANY indication whatsoever of an incendiary-type explosion or ANY kind of fire in this area.

Yet the incredible number of blown-out windows and other extensive though rather superficial damage throughout the lobby area was profoundly perplexing to these EXPERIENCED professional firefighters in relation to the impact of the plane eighty stories above. As one put it: "The lobby looked like the plane hit the lobby!"

But it DIDN'T: it hit EIGHTY STORIES ABOVE. There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage eighty stories below. In a building which by design had easily withstood an amazing amount of flexing and swaying from high winds, the ground-floor damage witnessed by these men and recorded on camera could not POSSIBLY have been caused by that plane crash. Over and over, these professional firefighters expressed their complete puzzlement over the damage in this area. However, this glaringly anomalous factor was spin-doctored by the narrator, who said fire officials were later informed (OBVIOUSLY by "certain" federal officials) that the lobby damage occurred because "burning jet fuel" had poured eighty stories down the elevator shafts and then exploded in the lobby. Interesting fable -- but in fact there was not one SINGLE visible indication of ANY kind of burning, fire or incendiary-type explosion in the lobby area. The Feds' complete and utter fabrication about jet fuel having "exploded" in the lobby is thoroughly nullified by the clear visual evidence on the footage of the fire-crews in the tower one lobby.

According to this visual evidence, it is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (apparently of a non-incendiary kind such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash -- before ANY fire crews and rescue workers arrived at the scene!

** Fourth

ALL the hundreds of professional firefighters massing at tower one AND their chiefs and superiors -- a number of whom had eye-witnessed the plane's actual impact -- along with other emergency services personnel familiar with and trained to deal with such disasters, were VERY surprised to find that EVERY SINGLE ONE of the north tower's elevators was OUT OF COMMISSION. Despite the obvious severity of the impact and the ensuing explosion and fire in parts of the building eighty stories above, these professional firefighters and rescue workers were at a loss to explain how EVERY SINGLE elevator could have been knocked out. Clearly, SOMETHING ELSE besides the plane crash was responsible for this truly dangerous state of affairs, which was a big factor in the large number of fatalities which ensued.

** Fifth

After the attack on the first tower, which had been reported by Chief Pfeiffer and other officials to higher authorities as a DELIBERATE AND HOSTILE ATTACK, the occupants of tower two were in the process of being evacuated. But THEN, obviously issuing from some diabolical source, word was spread throughout tower two's communications system that there was NO FURTHER DANGER and that ALL OCCUPANTS should return to their offices! Thus: Although clearly and SUSPICIOUSLY there was a VERY low attendance rate in both WTC towers that day, SOME agency or other took very deliberate steps to ensure that whoever WAS there that day was almost certain to die.

** Sixth

Clearly heard on the soundtrack of the CBS presentation of the Naudets' footage is the sound of a TV or radio announcer stating that there were reports of a FIRE and possible explosion having occurred at the Pentagon. Absolutely NOTHING was said about any PLANE having hit the Pentagon in these initial reports!

** Seventh

Explosions of varying loudness can be heard going off repeatedly throughout tower one during the time fire crews had set up their command post there after the first attack. WHAT WAS CAUSING THESE EXPLOSIONS? This is never even commented upon: but what else is there to SAY about this other than OTHER EXPLOSIVE DEVICES were DEFINITELY being detonated throughout the building after the plane had hit?!

** Eighth

ALL firefighters and rescue workers and their superiors and chiefs were FULLY CONFIDENT at ALL TIMES -- even after the attack on the south tower but before its unimaginable and unprecedented collapse -- that the dwindling conflagrations on the upper levels of the twin towers WOULD be fully contained, and that the majority of those people still up there WOULD be brought to safety. These trained and experienced professionals were FULLY aware of the extent and severity of the damage and destruction; yet not ONE of them even remotely envisioned something as catastrophic as the TOTAL, UTTER COLLAPSE of these two behemoth, tremendously solid structures. They knew they had a tough job to do -- and they KNEW -- every one of them -- that they COULD do it.

But then something they could never, ever have imagined DID happen. The buildings -- beginning strangely enough with the far less damaged and last to be struck south tower -- crumbled and sank from the Manhattan skyline in a vast and truly apocalyptic cloud of dust and rubble.

** Ninth

The south tower, which suffered far less damage than tower one, somehow or other crumpled to the ground. Professional fire and rescue workers on-site were in a state of near-total disbelief. THIS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY THE PLANE CRASH!

And THEN the same thing happened to the north tower.

And even MORE unbelievable: other than 3-4 inch thick steel beams jutting out everywhere which showed NO sign at all of having become softened, melted or anything similar, there was literally NOTHING LEFT of these gargantuan structures but DUST.

Moreover: EACH of the Trade Center's twin towers had a TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND+ GALLON water tank atop it. That's nearly a HALF-MILE gallons of water atop those two buildings. And not a single drop of it reached the ground.

In the words of Engine 7's Joe Casaliggi: "You have two 110-story office buildings. You don't find a desk; you don't find a chair; you don't find a telephone or a computer... . The biggest piece of a telephone was half of a keypad.

"There was nothing left of those buildings BUT DUST."

And we're supposed to believe that was caused by burning jet fuel -- THAT'S BASICALLY KEROSENE, folks -- which had LONG SINCE burned off in the initial fireballs.

We don't believe it. And neither do MANY, MANY other people, including a large number of New York City firefighters -- may God bless them for their selfless, honorable and heartfelt efforts to save others; all tragically sacrificed to further the demonic and hellish agendas of the mass-murdering within the US government so DEEPLY, deeply complicit in the carnage of 9.11.

THE TRAITORS IN OUR GOVERNMENT WILL PAY FOR THEIR VICIOUS AND INHUMAN TREACHERY ON 9.11.

Thagrastay · 03-11-2004, 12:02 PM

I have always felt this way as well, but haven't had anyone to pin it to.
so?
Who did it?

SaltPork · 03-11-2004, 01:15 PM

Well, this is the appropriate board, although maybe there should be a board called "Total Paranoia".

I think that while it's possible for the government to have been involved, it's not likely. Perhaps I'm not willing to accept that my government wants to kill me. Maybe I am naive to believe that there are actually bad people out there that hate us so much that they would do something like this. I suppose also that the government of Spain is behind the train bombing that happened today, right? And that the Russian government was behind the subway explosion and the theater hostage situation.

I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you ask me, I think that if you believe that your own government is capable of doing these things, then maybe you should leave and go to a safer country where things like this won't ever happen. If you don't live here, then don't worry about it, it's not your problem.

Peryn · 03-11-2004, 02:29 PM

ok, this guys has some interesting "points" but as far as i am concerned, he is pretty much just some angry nutjob.

He keeps bringing up more and more examples that make him les and less credible, and he continually gets more close-minded.

Quote:

Explosions of varying loudness can be heard going off repeatedly throughout tower one during the time fire crews had set up their command post there after the first attack. WHAT WAS CAUSING THESE EXPLOSIONS? This is never even commented upon: but what else is there to SAY about this other than OTHER EXPLOSIVE DEVICES were DEFINITELY being detonated throughout the building after the plane had hit?!

Well, explosions in a burning building huh? Damn...musta been teh government boming us... No burning structures could possible have anything flammable or possibly explosive in them.

Quote:

These trained and experienced professionals were FULLY aware of the extent and severity of the damage and destruction; yet not ONE of them even remotely envisioned something as catastrophic as the TOTAL, UTTER COLLAPSE of these two behemoth, tremendously solid structures. They knew they had a tough job to do -- and they KNEW -- every one of them -- that they COULD do it.

Apparently there WERENT fully aware of the damage were they? From 80 stories down, how could anyone even begin to think so highly of themselves as to think they could know the full extent of the damage?

Quote:

And even MORE unbelievable: other than 3-4 inch thick steel beams jutting out everywhere which showed NO sign at all of having become softened, melted or anything similar...blah blah blah...

Back to superman. Good thing he was able to give the firemen this information. Bullshit. this guy is now starting to anger me. From 80 stories down he thinks he can see how hard a metal beam is? Hell, let him get real close, and he probably couldn't tell teh difference in softness between stainless steel and aluminum if you polished em up good. Let him work with it a while, and he still probably couldn't tell steel apart from a hardened steel. Yet he can tell from 80 stories down that a plane full of jet fuel burning could not have possible softened teh metal.

This guy is full of crap. he is so quick to blame the government or the Men in Black of whatever bullshit he can think up. He uses big words to try and convince people he is right, but half the stuff he is saying doesn't even make sense. Mr Top_Viewer is just a wacky conspiracy theorist as far as i can tell.

... · 03-11-2004, 03:18 PM

This is simply an insult to anyone who possesses an ounce of intelligence.
That is my opinion.

Bossnass · 03-11-2004, 03:36 PM

I am of the firm belief that if someone resorts to using all uppercase for EMPHASIS then they loose credibility immediately.

(With no offense intended to Peryn and his usage, but the credibility of the initial author)

iman · 03-11-2004, 04:38 PM

Okay, so Top-Viewer does make a few stupid points, but what about the damage in the lobby? Apparently there is evidence of this on videotape. What about fighter planes not being dispatched? What about the unusually low attendance at the WTC that day? What about the increasing number of people saying that burning jet fuel 80 floors up could not - no way no how, never - cause entire buildings to collapse in the way the WTC towers did. I mean, think about it intuitively: imagine heating up a metal beam - even one with a heavy weight on top - until a part of it near the top is red hot - is the whole fucking thing going to crumble to the earth? Now that's just an intuitive view, there are actual scientists with credentials that deny that that sort of thing could ever happen without a precisely coordinated series of explosions.

Oh, and there's lots more questions about 9/11 than the way the towers came down.

03-11-2004, 07:27 PM

Wow, guess I'd have to watch the video. I couldn't imagine the planes or jet fuel doing all of that damage.

nash · 03-11-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ...
This is simply an insult to anyone who possesses an ounce of intelligence.
That is my opinion.

I agree. Each of these points can be very easily explained away and most if not all already have been. As for lobby damage, a decent sized earthquake can easily do such damage. In this case, the quake originated from 80 stories up from the same building. And as we all know, vibrations travel fastest and with least energy loss through solids so it's not unplausible that significant amounts of damage would be evident in all parts of the building.

Thagrastay · 03-12-2004, 07:09 AM

People are willing to believe any lie as long as you make it big enough.

When a building collapses from earthquake or other damage, it collapses in large, noticeable, measurable chunks. These chunks fall haphazardly, posing a danger to the surrounding area and passersby as well.

When a building is expertly taken down, it is dropped through a series of explosives which are expertly placed at crucial points within the structure to ensure that there is maximum damage to the structure itself, but also to ensure that the structure implodes, collapsing in upon itself so that when it comes down, it does so neatly in a heap, creating a great billowing, cloud of dust, but very little else except a neat pile of rubble where the building used to be.
Does this sound at all like what took place on September 11th?
The News reporters were stating that there were several explosions within the towers that morning, but then abruptly ceased mentioning that again.
I have worked around jet fuel when I served in the Navy. It burns very hot for a very brief time, and then it is done. It is not at all like phosphorous,which is a substance I could understand doing the damage they claim came from the jet fuel, but nothing short of that or interior charges rigged to level those buildings could have done that horrendous deed.
I am not convinced that it was our own government who did this, and I do not understand why so many are so quick to point the finger that way.
Whoever it was that conceived of and carried out this heinous act has something seriously and diabolically evil in their heart and mind. This is no less evil than the Jonestown massacre, the Oklahoma City Bombing, The Gas Chambers and Ovens of the Third Reich in that this was a deliberate and decided and thought out act against innocent and unknowing persons who were sacrificed for no good cause.

If this was the work of Osama Bin Laden, then we need spare no expense rooting him out and bringing him to justice and letting him languish on a chain gang somewhere in Alabama or in complete Solitary confinement for the remainder of his days so that he has time to consider what he has done with no audience to gloat or share it with.No death penalty for that boy- let him grow old with the knowledge that there is no escape and no hope for glory and none will ever know what became of him. Then once he has died, wrap his corpse in Pig skin and bury it in an unmarked grave and be shut of him.

If this was the work of another country's government, then it was an act of war and we have no choice but to take care of business.

If it was the work of our own government then it is time for a full-out, no-holds-barred Revolution since we can no longer trust our own government to keep us from harm, but to use us as sacrificial lambs for their own purposes whenever and for whatever they choose. We make Al Sharpton King of the United States and run like hell!

I say make them open all the records from the Kennedy assassination on down and let's see what's really going on!

Boy- wait until my phone gets tapped and my internet gets bugged and I have an agent show up at my door- huh?
I'll let you know how all that goes, if I am able.

Redlemon · 03-12-2004, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iman
What about the increasing number of people saying that burning jet fuel 80 floors up could not - no way no how, never - cause entire buildings to collapse in the way the WTC towers did.

A buddy of mine works in an airline-related field. He was at work when he heard about the impacts. They did a quick calculation of the amount of fuel that would be remaining in the planes and concluded that the towers would fall, before it happened.

For what it's worth.

shakran · 03-12-2004, 07:35 AM

Um. Those "explosions" they heard in tower 1 WERE explained. They werent' explosions. They were the sounds of bodies impacting with the ground and roof of the building.

... · 03-12-2004, 11:42 AM

They made a special program expalining the design of the building and had questioned the actual designer during a thorough investigation into the cause of the collapse.. The fire retardent material they used between floors was inadequate.
Each floor also had a tremendously heavy concrete slab.
When a couple of floors collapsed on top of each other it's easy to see that a domino effect happened.
ALso, if you people would think.......a couple of other buildings collapsed around that area too from heat stress, gravity and weight. Funny.......why don't mention that in their idiotic conspiracy theory ?
That's all the explaining I'm going to do in this thread because it insults 3,000 murdered people and their entire families.
It insults the rescue workers and volunteers.
It insults Americans.
It insults anyone with common sense.
Please pardon my attitude.

*waves

Fallon · 03-12-2004, 12:40 PM

The tone in which it was written may be insulting, but a couple of the questions it raises are good. I question what came of the claim that a ranking chief claims it was an attack, yet nothing was done about it. I personally don't believe that our gov't attacked its own people. I would not be surprised though if there were more terrorists involved with 9/11 then were claimed. The elevator makes me wonder but thinking about it further, if a fire alarm goes off, unless the WTC was different, generally elevators are turned off.

analog · 03-12-2004, 07:35 PM

It's a slap in the face to all those who survived, and those left behind by the dead.

Every piece of that commentary is bullshit, and not a thread of it holds up to truth, reason, or consequence.

I'm not even going to bother breaking it down, because the whole damn thing is one giant joke.

And what's with all the caps? A story needn't depend on your shift key to grab attention.

Shame on the person who wrote this. You have a special seat in hell.

hulk · 03-12-2004, 09:20 PM

This is Paranoia, mind you =) It's perfectly at home here. While 9/11 was indeed a tragedy, you folks did have it coming. Your intelligence knew of the attack, and yet did nothing. IMO, too much went wrong for it to be as simple as aircraft flying into buildings.

WarWagon · 03-12-2004, 10:49 PM

I agree with analog completely.

I also believe that saying "you folks had it coming," regardless of the context, is immature and inappropriate.

... · 03-13-2004, 03:06 PM

How can Hulks idiotic comment stay when I've been banned for so much less ?

Thagrastay · 03-13-2004, 03:38 PM

Had it coming?!
This then is the target of our retribution!
Which of the "you folks" are you addressing when you say
"You folks had it coming"? The people working in the towers? the firemen? Policemen? Foreign Nationals working in the Towers? Americans working in the Towers? Pilots of the planes? Passengers aboard the planes? Families of the victims? Witnesses to the tragedies? Victims at the Pentagon? Which "you folks"? If by that, you mean Americans in general, then I wonder how you can be so self righteous, and I would like to know where it is you hail from that exempts you from having it coming as well.
What a smug, sad little statement you've made.

I don't expect for a moment that my own government did this to it's people. And then again, I don't believe that the planes themselves are the sole cause of the amoutn of the destruction that was caused.
I believe that this was planned out and executed over a very long time, and the murderous bastards that did this learned very well from their first go-round with the car bomb in the car garage of the WTC just what it would take to bring down these structures and then went about their stinking deeds with care and precision. Pigs that they are, they succeeded. Now it is just a matter of identify who all the piglets involved were.
I say follow the money first and it inevitably leads to the maniacs.
They're the ones who truly have it coming. Eh, Hulkie?

bermuDa · 03-13-2004, 03:46 PM

we can't be everywhere at once, that's why there's a report post link.

I think hulk's comment could be taken one of two ways, either as "it could've been prevented" which is suggested by the following sentence, or as "you deserved what happened", which is definitely not acceptable. Either way, "you folks had" it coming is a poor way to phrase it. Care to clarify what you meant, hulk?

and ..., you've been banned huh. why come back then?

... · 03-13-2004, 09:03 PM

Because I still feel like it was totally unneccesary and unjustified.
I think it's quite plain and simple what he meant in his bastardized remark.
I did report his post.

Also.......I got edited for making a sarcastic joke about homosexuals.

I find it disturbing that I would get edited for making one dumb cynical joke about a lifestyle.... but this is allowable.
I'm almost confused.
There seems to be some sort of double standard here.
Gay jokes are taboo.
I let that situation rest though because after contemplating the comment, I felt that it might of offended less than 4 percent of the population.....but certainly not the mature and intelligent citizens of an entire nation.

I got banned twice simply for criticizing the moderators judgement in other matters and asking questions about their quick knee jerk reactions to ban people ....... which in itself is ludicrous and unjustified.

Ok....back to the real subject.

You're allowing people to make insulting comments about Nationality and clearly disrespect the victims of fanatical murdering lunatics along with the survivors and fellow citizens of America.

I guess it would be okay to make a comment about the Lockerbie incident and now Spain ?

How about that genocide in Rwanda and Sudan ???

Let's disrespect and insult the citizens from those Nations that have suffered from brutal fanatical regimes and terror....by insinuating that they had it coming....they should have known better....or that they deserved it.

Yeah.....that's allowed.

uhm....NO THANKS
I don't believe I'll stoop to that low lying piece of shit level.

hulk · 03-13-2004, 09:59 PM

Jeeze, way to take things the entirely wrong way, guys. What I meant is that the US has spent decades policing the world and generally not being very nice to countries in the Middle East. Civilian casualties caused by your military are huge. Your intelligence should have realised that retaliation was going to happen, sooner or later, and when it did, they failed to act. There was major breakdown in some area, although where I doubt we'll ever know.

I apologise if anyone took offence at my previous post (which is kinda obvious they did).

Thagastray, I'm hailing from Perth. That's in one of those countries that has suffered from brutal fanatical regimes of terror. I knew members of the Kingsley Football Club who were killed in the Bali nightclub bombings. Which, incidentally, was caused by a group of terrorists who wanted to kill Americans. Problem is they got 80 of us and only a handful of you.

analog · 03-14-2004, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hulk
This is Paranoia, mind you =) It's perfectly at home here. While 9/11 was indeed a tragedy, you folks did have it coming. Your intelligence knew of the attack, and yet did nothing. IMO, too much went wrong for it to be as simple as aircraft flying into buildings.

Tilted Paranoia is ghosts, government plots, etc., not a person making wild assertions with nothing to back it up that INSULT thousands of people who lost their lives either directly, or helping with the disaster. That is not paranoia- that is an affront to reason, intelligence, and basic use of rational thought.

Secondly, "as simple as" planes crashing into buildings? Are you saying that without a government conspiracy for you to chase, over 3,000 people lost their lives over "simple" airplane crashes?

Quote:

Originally posted by ...
How can Hulks idiotic comment stay when I've been banned for so much less ?

Based on the fact that- and I'm being honest here- you're stupid enough to out yourself as having been banned from here before... I question the validity of your statement. People get banned because they're underage or don't follow the rules. They're very easy to follow, and only require the most basic of human intellgence to master. Hell, there are about a dozen total MORONS (that I am directl aware of) who post all the time and have never once made an infraction. If those people can manage, so can everyone else.

Quote:

Originally posted by ...
Also.......I got edited for making a sarcastic joke about homosexuals.

I find it disturbing that I would get edited for making one dumb cynical joke about a lifestyle.... but this is allowable.
I'm almost confused.
There seems to be some sort of double standard here.
Gay jokes are taboo.
I let that situation rest though because after contemplating the comment, I felt that it might of offended less than 4 percent of the population.....but certainly not the mature and intelligent citizens of an entire nation.

I got banned twice simply for criticizing the moderators judgement in other matters and asking questions about their quick knee jerk reactions to ban people ....... which in itself is ludicrous and unjustified.

Ok....back to the real subject.

You're allowing people to make insulting comments about Nationality and clearly disrespect the victims of fanatical murdering lunatics along with the survivors and fellow citizens of America.

I guess it would be okay to make a comment about the Lockerbie incident and now Spain ?

How about that genocide in Rwanda and Sudan ???

Let's disrespect and insult the citizens from those Nations that have suffered from brutal fanatical regimes and terror....by insinuating that they had it coming....they should have known better....or that they deserved it.

Yeah.....that's allowed.

uhm....NO THANKS
I don't believe I'll stoop to that low lying piece of shit level.

I agree that is was a totally horrific thing to say, and that will be dealt with accordingly. Did you read my initial post and how pissed I was? Just because one Moderator looks over it, doesn't mean that it will not be dealt with. This IS NOT allowed, as you seem to think it was- you just caught it before a Moderator did. Chill out a bit, hmm?

Your being banned for criticizing moderators in the past notwithstanding, you're still behaving like a child, and I again question the validity of your claims. Just because you fuck up doesn't mean we're jerks. We were all members once, too, you know.

Quote:

Originally posted by hulk
Jeeze, way to take things the entirely wrong way, guys. What I meant is that the US has spent decades policing the world and generally not being very nice to countries in the Middle East. Civilian casualties caused by your military are huge. Your intelligence should have realised that retaliation was going to happen, sooner or later, and when it did, they failed to act. There was major breakdown in some area, although where I doubt we'll ever know.

I apologise if anyone took offence at my previous post (which is kinda obvious they did).

Thagastray, I'm hailing from Perth. That's in one of those countries that has suffered from brutal fanatical regimes of terror. I knew members of the Kingsley Football Club who were killed in the Bali nightclub bombings. Which, incidentally, was caused by a group of terrorists who wanted to kill Americans. Problem is they got 80 of us and only a handful of you.

When every person who responds to your comment is offended by it, that's fairly significant, and not just "taking it the wrong way". Perhaps you should reconsider your wording to be more appropriate next time you post about something that could VERY easily be an insult to an entire nation of people- or indeed anyone with a brain in their head.

I allowed this thread to exist because I believe that we must shine a light on "unpopular" topics such as this until everyone sees it for what it is.

If anyone wants to further this conversation, start a new thread with some actual substance, not some person screaming at us via keyboard.

What a horrible tragedy, and what a shitty way to talk about it. Who'd I lose to 9-11? I lost over 3,000 fellow Americans- hundreds of whom gave their lives to save anyone they could.

Anyone with questions, please feel free to PM me. Thank you.

03-11-2004, 12:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	I have always felt this way as well, but haven't had anyone to pin it to. so? Who did it? __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!"

03-11-2004, 01:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
SaltPork Everything's better with bacon Location: In your local grocer's freezer.	Well, this is the appropriate board, although maybe there should be a board called "Total Paranoia". I think that while it's possible for the government to have been involved, it's not likely. Perhaps I'm not willing to accept that my government wants to kill me. Maybe I am naive to believe that there are actually bad people out there that hate us so much that they would do something like this. I suppose also that the government of Spain is behind the train bombing that happened today, right? And that the Russian government was behind the subway explosion and the theater hostage situation. I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you ask me, I think that if you believe that your own government is capable of doing these things, then maybe you should leave and go to a safer country where things like this won't ever happen. If you don't live here, then don't worry about it, it's not your problem. __________________ It was like that when I got here....I swear.

03-12-2004, 07:09 AM	#10 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	People are willing to believe any lie as long as you make it big enough. When a building collapses from earthquake or other damage, it collapses in large, noticeable, measurable chunks. These chunks fall haphazardly, posing a danger to the surrounding area and passersby as well. When a building is expertly taken down, it is dropped through a series of explosives which are expertly placed at crucial points within the structure to ensure that there is maximum damage to the structure itself, but also to ensure that the structure implodes, collapsing in upon itself so that when it comes down, it does so neatly in a heap, creating a great billowing, cloud of dust, but very little else except a neat pile of rubble where the building used to be. Does this sound at all like what took place on September 11th? The News reporters were stating that there were several explosions within the towers that morning, but then abruptly ceased mentioning that again. I have worked around jet fuel when I served in the Navy. It burns very hot for a very brief time, and then it is done. It is not at all like phosphorous,which is a substance I could understand doing the damage they claim came from the jet fuel, but nothing short of that or interior charges rigged to level those buildings could have done that horrendous deed. I am not convinced that it was our own government who did this, and I do not understand why so many are so quick to point the finger that way. Whoever it was that conceived of and carried out this heinous act has something seriously and diabolically evil in their heart and mind. This is no less evil than the Jonestown massacre, the Oklahoma City Bombing, The Gas Chambers and Ovens of the Third Reich in that this was a deliberate and decided and thought out act against innocent and unknowing persons who were sacrificed for no good cause. If this was the work of Osama Bin Laden, then we need spare no expense rooting him out and bringing him to justice and letting him languish on a chain gang somewhere in Alabama or in complete Solitary confinement for the remainder of his days so that he has time to consider what he has done with no audience to gloat or share it with.No death penalty for that boy- let him grow old with the knowledge that there is no escape and no hope for glory and none will ever know what became of him. Then once he has died, wrap his corpse in Pig skin and bury it in an unmarked grave and be shut of him. If this was the work of another country's government, then it was an act of war and we have no choice but to take care of business. If it was the work of our own government then it is time for a full-out, no-holds-barred Revolution since we can no longer trust our own government to keep us from harm, but to use us as sacrificial lambs for their own purposes whenever and for whatever they choose. We make Al Sharpton King of the United States and run like hell! I say make them open all the records from the Kennedy assassination on down and let's see what's really going on! Boy- wait until my phone gets tapped and my internet gets bugged and I have an agent show up at my door- huh? I'll let you know how all that goes, if I am able. __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!" Last edited by Thagrastay; 03-12-2004 at 07:19 AM..

03-12-2004, 11:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
... Banned	They made a special program expalining the design of the building and had questioned the actual designer during a thorough investigation into the cause of the collapse.. The fire retardent material they used between floors was inadequate. Each floor also had a tremendously heavy concrete slab. When a couple of floors collapsed on top of each other it's easy to see that a domino effect happened. ALso, if you people would think.......a couple of other buildings collapsed around that area too from heat stress, gravity and weight. Funny.......why don't mention that in their idiotic conspiracy theory ? That's all the explaining I'm going to do in this thread because it insults 3,000 murdered people and their entire families. It insults the rescue workers and volunteers. It insults Americans. It insults anyone with common sense. Please pardon my attitude. waves Last edited by ...; 03-12-2004 at 11:47 AM..*

03-12-2004, 09:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	This is Paranoia, mind you =) It's perfectly at home here. While 9/11 was indeed a tragedy, you folks did have it coming. Your intelligence knew of the attack, and yet did nothing. IMO, too much went wrong for it to be as simple as aircraft flying into buildings. __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

03-11-2004, 03:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
... Banned	This is simply an insult to anyone who possesses an ounce of intelligence. That is my opinion.

03-11-2004, 03:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
Bossnass Détente Location: AWOL in Edmonton	I am of the firm belief that if someone resorts to using all uppercase for EMPHASIS then they loose credibility immediately. (With no offense intended to Peryn and his usage, but the credibility of the initial author)

03-11-2004, 04:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
iman Upright Location: NYC	Okay, so Top-Viewer does make a few stupid points, but what about the damage in the lobby? Apparently there is evidence of this on videotape. What about fighter planes not being dispatched? What about the unusually low attendance at the WTC that day? What about the increasing number of people saying that burning jet fuel 80 floors up could not - no way no how, never - cause entire buildings to collapse in the way the WTC towers did. I mean, think about it intuitively: imagine heating up a metal beam - even one with a heavy weight on top - until a part of it near the top is red hot - is the whole fucking thing going to crumble to the earth? Now that's just an intuitive view, there are actual scientists with credentials that deny that that sort of thing could ever happen without a precisely coordinated series of explosions. Oh, and there's lots more questions about 9/11 than the way the towers came down.

03-11-2004, 07:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
:::OshnSoul::: Guest	Wow, guess I'd have to watch the video. I couldn't imagine the planes or jet fuel doing all of that damage.

03-12-2004, 07:35 AM	#12 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Um. Those "explosions" they heard in tower 1 WERE explained. They werent' explosions. They were the sounds of bodies impacting with the ground and roof of the building.

03-12-2004, 12:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
Fallon Junkie Location: RI	The tone in which it was written may be insulting, but a couple of the questions it raises are good. I question what came of the claim that a ranking chief claims it was an attack, yet nothing was done about it. I personally don't believe that our gov't attacked its own people. I would not be surprised though if there were more terrorists involved with 9/11 then were claimed. The elevator makes me wonder but thinking about it further, if a fire alarm goes off, unless the WTC was different, generally elevators are turned off.

03-12-2004, 07:35 PM	#15 (permalink)
analog Banned	It's a slap in the face to all those who survived, and those left behind by the dead. Every piece of that commentary is bullshit, and not a thread of it holds up to truth, reason, or consequence. I'm not even going to bother breaking it down, because the whole damn thing is one giant joke. And what's with all the caps? A story needn't depend on your shift key to grab attention. Shame on the person who wrote this. You have a special seat in hell.

03-12-2004, 10:49 PM	#17 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	I agree with analog completely. I also believe that saying "you folks had it coming," regardless of the context, is immature and inappropriate.

03-13-2004, 03:06 PM	#18 (permalink)
... Banned	How can Hulks idiotic comment stay when I've been banned for so much less ?

03-13-2004, 03:38 PM	#19 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	Had it coming?! This then is the target of our retribution! Which of the "you folks" are you addressing when you say "You folks had it coming"? The people working in the towers? the firemen? Policemen? Foreign Nationals working in the Towers? Americans working in the Towers? Pilots of the planes? Passengers aboard the planes? Families of the victims? Witnesses to the tragedies? Victims at the Pentagon? Which "you folks"? If by that, you mean Americans in general, then I wonder how you can be so self righteous, and I would like to know where it is you hail from that exempts you from having it coming as well. What a smug, sad little statement you've made. I don't expect for a moment that my own government did this to it's people. And then again, I don't believe that the planes themselves are the sole cause of the amoutn of the destruction that was caused. I believe that this was planned out and executed over a very long time, and the murderous bastards that did this learned very well from their first go-round with the car bomb in the car garage of the WTC just what it would take to bring down these structures and then went about their stinking deeds with care and precision. Pigs that they are, they succeeded. Now it is just a matter of identify who all the piglets involved were. I say follow the money first and it inevitably leads to the maniacs. They're the ones who truly have it coming. Eh, Hulkie? __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!"

03-13-2004, 03:46 PM	#20 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	we can't be everywhere at once, that's why there's a report post link. I think hulk's comment could be taken one of two ways, either as "it could've been prevented" which is suggested by the following sentence, or as "you deserved what happened", which is definitely not acceptable. Either way, "you folks had" it coming is a poor way to phrase it. Care to clarify what you meant, hulk? and ..., you've been banned huh. why come back then? __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

03-13-2004, 09:03 PM	#21 (permalink)
... Banned	Because I still feel like it was totally unneccesary and unjustified. I think it's quite plain and simple what he meant in his bastardized remark. I did report his post. Also.......I got edited for making a sarcastic joke about homosexuals. I find it disturbing that I would get edited for making one dumb cynical joke about a lifestyle.... but this is allowable. I'm almost confused. There seems to be some sort of double standard here. Gay jokes are taboo. I let that situation rest though because after contemplating the comment, I felt that it might of offended less than 4 percent of the population.....but certainly not the mature and intelligent citizens of an entire nation. I got banned twice simply for criticizing the moderators judgement in other matters and asking questions about their quick knee jerk reactions to ban people ....... which in itself is ludicrous and unjustified. Ok....back to the real subject. You're allowing people to make insulting comments about Nationality and clearly disrespect the victims of fanatical murdering lunatics along with the survivors and fellow citizens of America. I guess it would be okay to make a comment about the Lockerbie incident and now Spain ? How about that genocide in Rwanda and Sudan ??? Let's disrespect and insult the citizens from those Nations that have suffered from brutal fanatical regimes and terror....by insinuating that they had it coming....they should have known better....or that they deserved it. Yeah.....that's allowed. uhm....NO THANKS I don't believe I'll stoop to that low lying piece of shit level. Last edited by ...; 03-13-2004 at 09:21 PM..

03-13-2004, 09:59 PM	#22 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	Jeeze, way to take things the entirely wrong way, guys. What I meant is that the US has spent decades policing the world and generally not being very nice to countries in the Middle East. Civilian casualties caused by your military are huge. Your intelligence should have realised that retaliation was going to happen, sooner or later, and when it did, they failed to act. There was major breakdown in some area, although where I doubt we'll ever know. I apologise if anyone took offence at my previous post (which is kinda obvious they did). Thagastray, I'm hailing from Perth. That's in one of those countries that has suffered from brutal fanatical regimes of terror. I knew members of the Kingsley Football Club who were killed in the Bali nightclub bombings. Which, incidentally, was caused by a group of terrorists who wanted to kill Americans. Problem is they got 80 of us and only a handful of you. __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review. Last edited by hulk; 03-13-2004 at 10:10 PM..