CB_Brooklyn

Regarding a Plane Crash into the South Tower on 9/11


First, let's take the videoclips here: http://www.911researchers.com/node/98

I'd have to say there's something very odd about the 9/11 clips. What do others think?


But what about this video? It seems even more revealing of who might have been behind 9/11: http://www.livevideo.com/video/landi...dia-perps.aspx



What has become of the corporate media??

Dilbert1234567

* There's no crushing, no bending, no twisting

the footage is to far away to catch minute details

* Tail does not snap off

there is no torque forces acting on the plan in 9/11 it goes straight in

* Fuel filled wings do not explode on impact

it was not ripped open on the ground and airated, that happens about 3 seconds later as it does get mixed with air and does explode.

* Wing tips (which are swept back 35 degrees) sawing through structural steel

high speeds will do that.

* The building self-heals itself before the explosion

most people can't convert ntsc to pal, the person who posted that video on kazaa is one of them.

but i think the first response says it best to the second link, the angle was bad, the second plane hit but they did not see it, all the say was the fuel spraying out and igniting, they called it an explosion because it was an explosion.

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samcol

I believe 9/11 was in inside job, but these particular vidoes are almost pointless in my opinion. It's absurd to claim that the TV videos of the plane attacks were fakery. There were plenty of videos from average citizens from dozens of angles recording the planes hitting the towers as well as eye witness reports. This pointless debate does nothing but give straw man arguments to non-believers in the 9/11 cover-up.

Concentrate on things like the drills on 9/11 or the 'pull it' comment from Silverstein and his massive insurance policy, or the dozens of other REAL incriminating evidence.

What you posted does nothing but hurt the credibility of the 9/11 truth movemnt.

Dilbert1234567

the pull it conspiracy....

the biggest problem with it is that pull it, with regards to building demolitions, 'pull it' means to drag the building down with wires, not explosives.

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samcol

Ya, sure it does What's the biggest problem of having drills of the exact same thing happening at the exact same time then?

Dilbert1234567

coincidence.

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samcol

That's some great detective work. I'm suprised you're not being recruited by the FBI/CIA, they love people who can willfully ingnore glaring problems in intelligence/investigations while spending infinite resources on things that don't matter. Literally, everything is hidden in plane site.

Bill O'Rights

"Plane site". I get it.

Seriously...there's something like a 10 page thread with all of the conspiracy theories in it. If we need a new thread on the subject, at least let's keep it to the topic at hand. And that...is the videoclips that were supplied to us by CB_Brooklyn. Let's narrow the focus to that one tiny area.

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fastom

One of the replies on that site mentions the lack of passengers on the Social Security Death Index.

That is a valuable tool i've used before for finding out when somebody died in car racing crashes. I think that bears some more study. For instance the famous phone caller Mark Bingham , there are 4, none that died in 2001. Closest is June 12th 2000, that guy was 34. SSN 518-98-0345

Todd Beamer... there's just one, a Todd E Beamer who died in 1997. His birthday was Sept 11th 1968 oddly enough! SSN 544-92-3952

CB_Brooklyn

I agree that the "pull it" statement by Silverstein is very incriminating, and so is the obvious controlled demolition of WTC 7. But wouldn't it be interesting if the whole WTC 7 thing was designed to distract the Truth Movement from other issues?

Let's take TV-Fakery for example. It implicates the corporate media directly as being the actual orchestrators of the attacks. The corporate media are the ones who scared Americans into supporting a war in the Middle East, and into giving away their liberties.

Even this article in Technology Review magazine, published one year before 9/11, explains that the military/media can insert prerecorded footage into live feed, and use it to alter world politics.

I'm not saying WTC 7 isn't important. But would it expose the real perpetrators of 9/11? Those who know that 9/11 was an inside job also know that the 9/11 perps are masters at creating propaganda.

Dilbert1234567

as previously stated, pull it referees to collapsing a building by pulling it down, not by explosives. under the stress of the day, maybe he meant 'it' to be the fire fighting effort, it's not incriminating at all, the next time you make a slip of the tongue, thing back to how many you'd make when the world is going to hell around you.

i totally agree with you, the medias handling of the bush administration was shameful at best, being hand fed instead of asking questions. i wont go into details because i know we both feel about the same way regarding the war.

i'm sure the technology exist to do this, however, after it's done, they would get back on the air and at least say, 'that wasn't what we posted.' further more you forget about all the amature video showing the exact same things from that day. the technology exist and is not very practical, it is designed to create short term confusion, posting a false clip showing troop movements way off from where they really are...

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fastom

So Dil...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Beamer

Todd Morgan Beamer (November 24, 1968 – September 11, 2001)

Go to http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi
-------------------------------------------------------------

Social Security Death Index Search Results
79,161,604 Records
last updated on 03-20-2007 The key to your research
Join Ancestry.com Today!

The most full-featured SSDI search engine on the internet

Field Value Records Results
Last Name BEAMER 1298 1298
First Name TODD 5575 1
Middle Name MORGAN Scanned

Nothing found
Check your search criteria and/or make a less restrictive search.
----------------------------------------------------------------

OK so maybe it isn't complete...

But if we take away the "Morgan" middle name...

Field Value Records Results
Last Name BEAMER 1298 1298
First Name TODD 5575 1

Viewing 1-1 of 1
Name Birth Death Last Residence Last Benefit SSN Issued Tools Order
Record?
TODD E BEAMER 11 Sep 1968 10 Jun 1997 (P) (72) (none specified) 544-92-3952 Oregon SS-5 Letter
-------------------------------------------------------------

Sept 11th and also 1968, add this to the thousands of odd coincidences.

For sure that isn't a complete list and there have been many more than 79 million deaths, but many others that i did look up are on there. There is a government site for this but i've never bothered to find it.

Basically if the victims didn't die there, and it seems the alive suicide pilots do point to that, then what else is phony?

Cavi Mike

"In Plane Site" is actually a documentary on this topic and it's not a very good one because it's full of finger pointing and opinions. If anyone wants to see every piece of footage and every fact gathered and put together like a good unbiased Discovery Channel-esque documentary, look up Loose Change 2. It's not a sequel to the original, it just has a lot more footage, interviews and other facts added to the original and it's put together a little better. I showed my mother and she couldn't stop crying through the whole thing.

But I agree with samcol, this recent crap about the planes being fake is just that, crap. The planes that hit the twin towers were very real.

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Dilbert1234567

while you watch loose change 2, read the http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

its a good guide to weed out the lies and distortions of it.

read the disclaimer. then throw out your claim.
http://www.ancestry.com/search/recty...di/miscon.aspx

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pornclerk

Ok, so when I saw the second video, I didn't really get why the guy was making such a huge deal of the script. That doesn't prove anything about whether it is fake or not.

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shakran

I think I love idiots who can't even craft a coherent conspiracy theory.

Let's review:

1) the NYC news outlets are incredible technical wizards. They're able to sync, TO THE FRAME (i.e. 1/30th of a second) the "fake" plane with the real explosion. How the hell did they do that?

2) Oh, I see. They managed to do it because they were collaborating with whoever in government actually attacked the building. They were all in on it, and therefore could possibly have somehow synced a video server with some sort of output from the missile. OK, not real probable, maybe a 1 in 3 million shot that they'd pull this off precisely, but hey, I'll give you that.

3) So again, it's a conspiracy. The media is in on it. The news team has been given scripts to read.

4) Well then who the hell forgot to tell the reporter on the ground? Why is he out there saying "I didn't see a plane?" Why isn't he adding to the lie?

5) So you're telling me that we can somehow sync a video server to play, precisely, to the 30th of a second, an exactly synchronized fake plane that hits precisely when the explosion happens, but we can't manage to fake it from a chopper cam? I hate to tell you, but we have the technology to track camera motion. If we were trying to plant a fake plane, we could have done it from the chopper too.

I also hate to tell you that Chopper4 has a gyrocam. This is a gyroscopically stabilized camera that's capable of holding rock steady shots provided the pilot doesn't move too much. Here, you can see it hanging under the nose of the chopper in this pic. It's the big white ball:



You'll notice all the movement there was camera zooms and pans. If the guys in Chopper4 were trying to fake a plane crash into the tower, why didn't they just not fool with the zoom button and let the effects wizard superimpose the plane on their video too?

And, if we in the evil media knew this was coming, why did WCBS send transmitter engineer Bob Pattison up to the 104th floor to work on their transmitter the morning they supposedly knew the attack was coming? Why did WNBC send transmitter engineer Bill Steckman, a husband and 5 times a father, up to work that morning? Why did ABC send transmitter engineer Don Difranco? All three of these guys were killed when the towers collapsed.

Are you suggesting that we're such cold calculating bastards that we kill off our friends in order to perpetrate this conspiracy on the American public, or are you just watching random shit on the internet and believing whatever you think is cool?



By which you mean why don't corporate media's reporters fall for every mindless bit of dumbassedness that halfwit conspiracy theorists spew out when they're fantasizing about being noticed. The media covered 9/11. We did not cause it. We did not fake it.

CB_Brooklyn

But all the amateur videos show the same thing: an aluminum airplane gliding into a steel/concrete building like it glides through the air..

Dilbert1234567

that’s what happens when you throw a heavy object at a high rate of speed into essentially a hollow tube.

there is nothing wrong with the video or what it shows. you must also remember these are low grade video shot at hundreds of feet away, minute detail does not exist.

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CB_Brooklyn

Ummm..... the towers weren't hollow tubes:

The perimeter columns were steel (see here: http://www.veoh.com/videos/v228812FdPt5ZBB )

Each tower had 47 massive core columns.

Between each floor was a slab of steel-reinforced concrete. (The "plane" hit on an angle impacting approximately 7 floors)

Here's an analogy to help explain:

Let's say you're driving a car toward a brick wall. How fast would you need to drive for the car to glide smoothly in the wall without showing signs of bending, twisting, or tearing?

The_Jazz

If you're in a heavy enough car about 300 mph would do it. With a thin enough wall, you mind even manage to get through the wall with only minor scratches.

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Dilbert1234567

Ok... here we go...

the plane impacted at roughly 450 mph, that is 660 feet per second, the video showing the impacts is 30 fps (29.97 for NTSC) so the plane travels roughly 22 feet per frame. NTSC uses 484 of the 525 scan lines for video, however to save on bandwidth they are interlaces, only half displaying at a time. It is shot at a 4:3 ratio giving us approximately 640x480 ‘pixels’ to work with. At best, the closest video of the impacts was shot at over 3000 feet away and at worst several miles away. We know the tower is about 207 feet wise. The best footage I can find of the impact has the tower taking up half of the horizontal space, 320 pixels; this means that each pixel is representing 2/3rds of a foot. You simply cannot see enough details from any of the videos’ of the impacts to see anything except the plane sliding into the building. We are not talking about watching something a car hit a brick wall across the street; we are talking about watching something from several thousand feet away. It is simply impossible to see any more then that.

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