Ghosts And Sleep Paralysis - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

soma · 02-05-2007, 06:25 AM

Sleep paralysis is a temporary paralysis sometimes experienced upon waking. More at wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I've been experiencing sleep paralysis every couple of months or so and each time it happens, I dream of ghosts immediately prior to waking in a state of sleep paralysis. How can this be that each time I experience sleep paralysis, I dream of ghosts?

hagatha · 02-05-2007, 08:27 AM

When you say "ghosts" do you mean people you know to be dead? Or do you dream of images that are ghostly in appearance? Do they talk to you? This may help to clarify what is happening.

soma · 02-05-2007, 11:57 AM

What happens is this. There is a definite felt presence of a non-human being to explain something strange in a dream. When I get to a point in a dream where there are ghosts around me, I will wake up and i experience sleep paralysis.

Sorcha · 02-05-2007, 12:05 PM

I have sleep paralysis usually when I'm exhausted and stressed especially, or I am napping for whatever reason. But yeah, I actually usually dream of ghosts too...or at least have some sort of nightmare.

Is it the same dream for you, or is the only constant the ghosts? For me, it's different dreams, the only similarity is they're scary ish. lol

soma · 02-05-2007, 01:48 PM

The details are different, but always it has something to do with ghosts, or the discovery of ghosts, and then I wake up and I can't move.

hagatha · 02-05-2007, 05:56 PM

all I can recommend is that you not panic, and just let the rest of your body catch up with your waking mind. It will ease the transition to wakefullness.
I have no theories as to why it keeps happening.

MuadDib · 02-08-2007, 08:45 AM

I think what you see/hear/experience in sleep paralysis is effected by what parts of your brain are in a sleep state and what isn't. For starters, the entire process is based around certain motor functions going to sleep, but certain conscious process being awake. The experience of entities hanging around in the corners of vision, or even in full sight, is one of the more common experiences in sleep paralysis. I would wager that is so because certain vision areas of the brain and perhaps some areas related to paranoia. If that is just way off, which I doubt, then it might just be something of an automated response to your brain. This would be similar to recurring dreams that are often set off by similar circumstances either in your external life or your internal conscious. So because your first experience with paralysis had this ghost experience, and because it was such an emotionally strong experience, your mind just associates that state with the dream first experienced and fills in the blanks.

So there you go a neurological theory and a psychological theory. If you don't like either than maybe your house is just haunted or you're being abducted by aliens.

Cynosure · 02-08-2007, 03:29 PM

I'm probably going to regret sharing this with you, but...

I've had numerous "sleep paralysis" experiences, in the recent past. Only, I was never paralyzed. On numerous occasions, I woke up in the middle of the night, to see (and/or hear) a ghostly apparition that appeared to be quite real. Far from paralyzed, I was able to interact with it. Like, one time I sat up in bed and waved my hand through it, to see if I could touch it. Another time, when I saw it 3 or 4 feet away from the foot of my bed, I threw my pillow at it, to see what would happen. (The pillow passed through it, of course, and it disappeared.)

What did it look like? Well, sometimes it was a dark, wavering presence in the air, adult human in height and width but not really humanoid in shape. Other times, it was a small, hovering ball (or blob) of glowy stuff, like phosphorous.

As for what it sounded like: It had three voices. Most of the time, it sounded like a young woman with a pleasant albeit mischievous voice. A couple of times, it sounded like a young man with a gentle yet seductive voice. One time, it sounded like an innocent child. Each time, it said, "Hi" or "Hello", or it called my name. One time, I felt it's presence creeping up on me, and as I came awake, it said playfully, "Boo!" (That time, I sat up in bed and said aloud, grumbling, "Ha-ha. Very funny.")

Before all this started happening, there were some spooky things going on in our house, during the daytime and the early evening. One night, my wife – when she was wide awake and not on medication of any kind – swore she saw a darkly wavering yet distinct presence walk down our stairway and into our living room, where my wife was seated, watching TV. To this day, I don't know what to make of that. But shortly after that, the "sleep paralyses" experiences began for me (and continued for about six to nine months).

Later, the experiences for me began to get increasingly sexual in nature. But I'm averse to sharing any of that on the Internet, because the last time that I did, on a different message board, the members there heckled me and said I was making all this shit up. Well, I wasn't making any of it up, but I did feel I had bared my psyche to everyone, much to their amusement and their derisive analyses.

hagatha · 02-08-2007, 03:55 PM

Actually, I believe what you're saying Cynosure. But i would suggest that you cease and desist with the sexual stuff. It robs your energy, I'm sure you've felt it. And if you get too wrapped up in it, it could start to affect your waking life.
And you really don't know who, what you're dealing with.

Sounds like a bonafide haunting...do you know anything about the house? Previous owners, etc?

Cynosure · 02-08-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagatha

But i would suggest that you cease and desist with the sexual stuff. It robs your energy, I'm sure you've felt it. And if you get too wrapped up in it, it could start to affect your waking life.

Well, it wasn't my idea (at least, not consciously) for my experiences to start veering off, in that direction. And when they did, I said, "Whoa. This is getting damn creepy." But the scientific part of me wanted to investigate it, to see what it was and how far it would go. Real or not, it was fascinating. (Oh, the experiences were real enough, but what I was wondering was whether there was anything supernatural about them.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagatha

And you really don't know who, what you're dealing with.

About 80% of me was convinced these were a form of "sleep paralysis" dreams. But that remaining 20% of me was wondering what the hell else this could be: a ghost? a demonic spirit? a former lover, contacting me telepathically? a physical manifestation of my sexual-spiritual frustration?

MuadDib · 02-08-2007, 09:34 PM

Cynosure,

I could not disagree more with hagaths's post (with all due respect). If you have motor volition then your experience is definatively NOT sleep paralysis. I think everyone could agree upon that.

At that point you have a choice. Either you choose that the experience is an internal mechanism (outside of sleep paralysis) or it is physically real. Either one involves a big problem! I would recommend that you absolutely do not give in to these experience, be they delusional or real. No matter what you are either in conflict with yourself or a malignant force and you 100% want your current prevailing thoughts to fight through.

My recommendation would be to start sleeping in a different room and see how that influences the experience. If it does not then try one or two nights in a different house completely. That should be enough to determine if the effect is around you or a location. If it is around you then try sleeping alone with a light ring of salt around your sleeping area. In almost every culture that has an effect on supernatural forces (which I have a limited belief in). If none of this helps then you may have a legitimate paranormal experience occurring, but even that could be influences by your own perception of this occurrence.

The important thing to keep in mind is that regardless of the source it should be of concern and that it could become a serious problem. Take steps to figure out the meaning behind it all and always remember that you are your own best guide. Do what works for you and solve the problem. DO NOT IGNORE IT. Confronting it now, no matter what it means, will save you much anxiety and hardship in the future.

hagatha · 02-09-2007, 07:48 AM

Would I be totally out to lunch in suggesting you contact a psychic? I don't know where you are, but I noticed that a lot of larger centres have psychic investigators and the like who go into people's homes and tell them if there's spirit activity and why.
Just a thought, I get weirded out when people who don't know what they're at start dicking around with the supernatural, it tends to escalate rather than eradicate events.
Just my thoughts on this.

Cynosure · 02-09-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagatha

I get weirded out when people who don't know what they're at start dicking around with the supernatural...

Heh. Was that meant to be a pun?

Okay, the greater part of me (around 80%, like I said) believes my experiences were a form of sleep paralysis dreams. My experiences did share a lot of the symptoms of this condition, according to the research I did on the subject.

Like, half the time that I had these experiences, I had awakened lying on my back. (Not a usual sleeping position for me.) And all of these experiences occurred just after I was woken up from being sleep. Now, I'm pretty sure that with most of these experiences, I had become fully awake; for sure, I was cognizant and fully aware of my surroundings; but with none of these experiences was I elsewhere in the house and not in my bed, and not asleep just prior to having them.

However, one very weird thing did happen, during the daytime and while I was fully awake.

I'll tell you all about that, in my next post here.

Cynosure · 02-13-2007, 08:44 AM

As these experiences were getting more frequent and more intense, I was praying for divine revelation of what these experiences actually were. Were they a manifestation of my sub-consciousness, or were they truly supernatural? And if they were truly supernatural, then what was their source: a ghost? a demonic (or angelic) spirit? or something else?

It had occurred to me that the voice used most frequently by the "apparition", visiting me in the night or pre-dawn, sounded familiar. I was reminded of a women who I had lived with and had been deeply in love with, a decade ago. My relationship with this woman was one of the most – if not the most – intense and passionate I've ever had. (BTW: I've been married twice; the first time, for nearly 9 years; the second time, for over 7 years, so far. And during the 4-year span between those marriages, I lived with this woman whom I'm talking about, for nearly 2 years.) But when these strange experiences began, I had not had any contact with this woman for nearly eight years. She had gotten married and moved away, out of state, and I did not have her address or phone number, or even her e-mail address.

Well, as these experiences grew more frequent and intense, and as they became sexual in nature, I began to have dreams about this former lover of mine, and during my waking hours I found myself thinking about her. And then I began to wonder if (assuming these experiences were indeed supernatural) that she had recently died and was somehow contacting me from the Other Side. So, I tried looking for her, through the Internet. I used google to search for her name and whereabouts, but I didn't find anything useful.

And then, a few days later, I get this e-mail from out of the blue – it was from her! She had done the same thing as I had, using google to search for my name and whereabouts; only, her search was successful.

As it turned out, this woman was going through a divorce and she had been thinking about me an awful lot, remembering fondly our lives together, with its many deeply passionate and intimate moments. And, yes, she was wondering if I was available.

But I was not available, as I made clear to this woman through our subsequent e-mail correspondences. I'm re-married now, and intend to remain so. Furthermore, I have a 7-year-old daughter (from this marriage) who I cherish. I'm not about to jeopardize any of that.

Thus, nothing really came out of this re-connection through the Internet with my former lover. We never moved beyond e-mail correspondences; not even a phone call. And already, we've fallen out of contact again; she's moved on, with her life. And, so... What to make out of all this?

Shrug.

I still believe, for the most part, that what I was experiencing was a form of "sleep paralyses dreams". But the strange thing is, those experiences pretty much stopped right after I got in contact with this former lover of mine. And there seems to be too much that happened here for me to shrug off as mere coincidence.

hagatha · 02-13-2007, 09:43 AM

The mind and the bonds we form with people is a powerful thing.

lemmingslover · 02-26-2007, 08:25 AM

This topic is why i joined this forum

I just experienced this sleep paralysis/ hallucination for the first time without knowing what it was.
I was lying in bed and it felt as if I'd just had a hit of laughing gas which those who have had it can imagine is not nice when your not expecting it.

I became paralysed but could feel my hand touching the bedside table.

I saw a shadow figure and at this point i had the strongest feeling of a pressense in the room ( sounds strange but many of you will know what im talking about)

The shadow then came for me and i heard a child/ girls laughter

Somehow I broke this and fell of my bed.

The experience lasted I would say about a minute.

As I say before this was not a dream but I was fully awake...I do not believe it was supernatural...however I can strongly see why many people would

just wanted to share this with people =]

hagatha · 02-26-2007, 10:04 AM

Thanks lemmingslover, as you may have gleened from previous posts, this phenomena is more common than we think.

MuadDib · 02-26-2007, 11:23 AM

What is really interesting is the variety here. All lot of the scenarios in this forum share similar experiences to sleep paralysis, but, by definition, are not a part of this malady (waking experiences or motor functionality).

hagatha, I've also found it interesting that so many here have experienced this phenomena. It isn't an extremely common affliction and we seem fairly over-represented on this forum.

Sorcha · 02-26-2007, 12:07 PM

I had a really different one recently.

I was eating dinner with my friends, and we were talking about what to do with this religious artifact I'd found. A lot of people wanted it, because it would be this religion's undoing, so I was in rather grave danger.

I remember seeing a woman out of the corner of my eye, wearing a long houndstooth coat and black boots. She had her hair cut in a black bob, and she was very pale. Kinda the coloring you'd picture snow white having. In any case she came behind me with a knife, and pulled my head back and was about to cut my throat, when I woke up.

I woke up and I couldn't move. There was a blonde woman in a blue dress (old fashioned, 1850s-ish) floating above me holding my shoulders and I couldn't move. She was trying to kill me too I assumed, though I got the distinct impression she was a ghost. I was able to break away, but it was no less terrifying. In retrospect it was more like she was trying to wake me up.

Didn't mind. Rather not die

lol

02-05-2007, 06:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
soma Addict Location: USA	Ghosts And Sleep Paralysis Sleep paralysis is a temporary paralysis sometimes experienced upon waking. More at wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis I've been experiencing sleep paralysis every couple of months or so and each time it happens, I dream of ghosts immediately prior to waking in a state of sleep paralysis. How can this be that each time I experience sleep paralysis, I dream of ghosts? __________________ Having Girl Problems?

02-05-2007, 08:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
hagatha Addict	When you say "ghosts" do you mean people you know to be dead? Or do you dream of images that are ghostly in appearance? Do they talk to you? This may help to clarify what is happening. __________________ Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

02-05-2007, 11:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
soma Addict Location: USA	What happens is this. There is a definite felt presence of a non-human being to explain something strange in a dream. When I get to a point in a dream where there are ghosts around me, I will wake up and i experience sleep paralysis. __________________ Having Girl Problems?

02-05-2007, 01:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
soma Addict Location: USA	The details are different, but always it has something to do with ghosts, or the discovery of ghosts, and then I wake up and I can't move. __________________ Having Girl Problems?

02-05-2007, 05:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
hagatha Addict	all I can recommend is that you not panic, and just let the rest of your body catch up with your waking mind. It will ease the transition to wakefullness. I have no theories as to why it keeps happening. __________________ Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

02-05-2007, 12:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sorcha Tilted Location: South Carolina	I have sleep paralysis usually when I'm exhausted and stressed especially, or I am napping for whatever reason. But yeah, I actually usually dream of ghosts too...or at least have some sort of nightmare. Is it the same dream for you, or is the only constant the ghosts? For me, it's different dreams, the only similarity is they're scary ish. lol

02-08-2007, 08:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
MuadDib Psycho	I think what you see/hear/experience in sleep paralysis is effected by what parts of your brain are in a sleep state and what isn't. For starters, the entire process is based around certain motor functions going to sleep, but certain conscious process being awake. The experience of entities hanging around in the corners of vision, or even in full sight, is one of the more common experiences in sleep paralysis. I would wager that is so because certain vision areas of the brain and perhaps some areas related to paranoia. If that is just way off, which I doubt, then it might just be something of an automated response to your brain. This would be similar to recurring dreams that are often set off by similar circumstances either in your external life or your internal conscious. So because your first experience with paralysis had this ghost experience, and because it was such an emotionally strong experience, your mind just associates that state with the dream first experienced and fills in the blanks. So there you go a neurological theory and a psychological theory. If you don't like either than maybe your house is just haunted or you're being abducted by aliens. __________________ "The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751

02-08-2007, 03:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cynosure Psycho Location: the center of the multiverse	I'm probably going to regret sharing this with you, but... I've had numerous "sleep paralysis" experiences, in the recent past. Only, I was never paralyzed. On numerous occasions, I woke up in the middle of the night, to see (and/or hear) a ghostly apparition that appeared to be quite real. Far from paralyzed, I was able to interact with it. Like, one time I sat up in bed and waved my hand through it, to see if I could touch it. Another time, when I saw it 3 or 4 feet away from the foot of my bed, I threw my pillow at it, to see what would happen. (The pillow passed through it, of course, and it disappeared.) What did it look like? Well, sometimes it was a dark, wavering presence in the air, adult human in height and width but not really humanoid in shape. Other times, it was a small, hovering ball (or blob) of glowy stuff, like phosphorous. As for what it sounded like: It had three voices. Most of the time, it sounded like a young woman with a pleasant albeit mischievous voice. A couple of times, it sounded like a young man with a gentle yet seductive voice. One time, it sounded like an innocent child. Each time, it said, "Hi" or "Hello", or it called my name. One time, I felt it's presence creeping up on me, and as I came awake, it said playfully, "Boo!" (That time, I sat up in bed and said aloud, grumbling, "Ha-ha. Very funny.") Before all this started happening, there were some spooky things going on in our house, during the daytime and the early evening. One night, my wife – when she was wide awake and not on medication of any kind – swore she saw a darkly wavering yet distinct presence walk down our stairway and into our living room, where my wife was seated, watching TV. To this day, I don't know what to make of that. But shortly after that, the "sleep paralyses" experiences began for me (and continued for about six to nine months). Later, the experiences for me began to get increasingly sexual in nature. But I'm averse to sharing any of that on the Internet, because the last time that I did, on a different message board, the members there heckled me and said I was making all this shit up. Well, I wasn't making any of it up, but I did feel I had bared my psyche to everyone, much to their amusement and their derisive analyses. Last edited by Cynosure; 02-08-2007 at 03:52 PM..

02-08-2007, 03:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
hagatha Addict	Actually, I believe what you're saying Cynosure. But i would suggest that you cease and desist with the sexual stuff. It robs your energy, I'm sure you've felt it. And if you get too wrapped up in it, it could start to affect your waking life. And you really don't know who, what you're dealing with. Sounds like a bonafide haunting...do you know anything about the house? Previous owners, etc? __________________ Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

02-08-2007, 09:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
MuadDib Psycho	Cynosure, I could not disagree more with hagaths's post (with all due respect). If you have motor volition then your experience is definatively NOT sleep paralysis. I think everyone could agree upon that. At that point you have a choice. Either you choose that the experience is an internal mechanism (outside of sleep paralysis) or it is physically real. Either one involves a big problem! I would recommend that you absolutely do not give in to these experience, be they delusional or real. No matter what you are either in conflict with yourself or a malignant force and you 100% want your current prevailing thoughts to fight through. My recommendation would be to start sleeping in a different room and see how that influences the experience. If it does not then try one or two nights in a different house completely. That should be enough to determine if the effect is around you or a location. If it is around you then try sleeping alone with a light ring of salt around your sleeping area. In almost every culture that has an effect on supernatural forces (which I have a limited belief in). If none of this helps then you may have a legitimate paranormal experience occurring, but even that could be influences by your own perception of this occurrence. The important thing to keep in mind is that regardless of the source it should be of concern and that it could become a serious problem. Take steps to figure out the meaning behind it all and always remember that you are your own best guide. Do what works for you and solve the problem. DO NOT IGNORE IT. Confronting it now, no matter what it means, will save you much anxiety and hardship in the future. __________________ "The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751

02-09-2007, 07:48 AM	#12 (permalink)
hagatha Addict	Would I be totally out to lunch in suggesting you contact a psychic? I don't know where you are, but I noticed that a lot of larger centres have psychic investigators and the like who go into people's homes and tell them if there's spirit activity and why. Just a thought, I get weirded out when people who don't know what they're at start dicking around with the supernatural, it tends to escalate rather than eradicate events. Just my thoughts on this. __________________ Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

02-13-2007, 08:44 AM	#14 (permalink)
Cynosure Psycho Location: the center of the multiverse	As these experiences were getting more frequent and more intense, I was praying for divine revelation of what these experiences actually were. Were they a manifestation of my sub-consciousness, or were they truly supernatural? And if they were truly supernatural, then what was their source: a ghost? a demonic (or angelic) spirit? or something else? It had occurred to me that the voice used most frequently by the "apparition", visiting me in the night or pre-dawn, sounded familiar. I was reminded of a women who I had lived with and had been deeply in love with, a decade ago. My relationship with this woman was one of the most – if not the most – intense and passionate I've ever had. (BTW: I've been married twice; the first time, for nearly 9 years; the second time, for over 7 years, so far. And during the 4-year span between those marriages, I lived with this woman whom I'm talking about, for nearly 2 years.) But when these strange experiences began, I had not had any contact with this woman for nearly eight years. She had gotten married and moved away, out of state, and I did not have her address or phone number, or even her e-mail address. Well, as these experiences grew more frequent and intense, and as they became sexual in nature, I began to have dreams about this former lover of mine, and during my waking hours I found myself thinking about her. And then I began to wonder if (assuming these experiences were indeed supernatural) that she had recently died and was somehow contacting me from the Other Side. So, I tried looking for her, through the Internet. I used google to search for her name and whereabouts, but I didn't find anything useful. And then, a few days later, I get this e-mail from out of the blue – it was from her! She had done the same thing as I had, using google to search for my name and whereabouts; only, her search was successful. As it turned out, this woman was going through a divorce and she had been thinking about me an awful lot, remembering fondly our lives together, with its many deeply passionate and intimate moments. And, yes, she was wondering if I was available. But I was not available, as I made clear to this woman through our subsequent e-mail correspondences. I'm re-married now, and intend to remain so. Furthermore, I have a 7-year-old daughter (from this marriage) who I cherish. I'm not about to jeopardize any of that. Thus, nothing really came out of this re-connection through the Internet with my former lover. We never moved beyond e-mail correspondences; not even a phone call. And already, we've fallen out of contact again; she's moved on, with her life. And, so... What to make out of all this? Shrug. I still believe, for the most part, that what I was experiencing was a form of "sleep paralyses dreams". But the strange thing is, those experiences pretty much stopped right after I got in contact with this former lover of mine. And there seems to be too much that happened here for me to shrug off as mere coincidence. Last edited by Cynosure; 02-13-2007 at 09:12 AM..

02-13-2007, 09:43 AM	#15 (permalink)
hagatha Addict	The mind and the bonds we form with people is a powerful thing. __________________ Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

02-26-2007, 08:25 AM	#16 (permalink)
lemmingslover Upright	This topic is why i joined this forum I just experienced this sleep paralysis/ hallucination for the first time without knowing what it was. I was lying in bed and it felt as if I'd just had a hit of laughing gas which those who have had it can imagine is not nice when your not expecting it. I became paralysed but could feel my hand touching the bedside table. I saw a shadow figure and at this point i had the strongest feeling of a pressense in the room ( sounds strange but many of you will know what im talking about) The shadow then came for me and i heard a child/ girls laughter Somehow I broke this and fell of my bed. The experience lasted I would say about a minute. As I say before this was not a dream but I was fully awake...I do not believe it was supernatural...however I can strongly see why many people would just wanted to share this with people =]

02-26-2007, 10:04 AM	#17 (permalink)
hagatha Addict	Thanks lemmingslover, as you may have gleened from previous posts, this phenomena is more common than we think. __________________ Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

02-26-2007, 11:23 AM	#18 (permalink)
MuadDib Psycho	What is really interesting is the variety here. All lot of the scenarios in this forum share similar experiences to sleep paralysis, but, by definition, are not a part of this malady (waking experiences or motor functionality). hagatha, I've also found it interesting that so many here have experienced this phenomena. It isn't an extremely common affliction and we seem fairly over-represented on this forum. __________________ "The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751

02-26-2007, 12:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
Sorcha Tilted Location: South Carolina	I had a really different one recently. I was eating dinner with my friends, and we were talking about what to do with this religious artifact I'd found. A lot of people wanted it, because it would be this religion's undoing, so I was in rather grave danger. I remember seeing a woman out of the corner of my eye, wearing a long houndstooth coat and black boots. She had her hair cut in a black bob, and she was very pale. Kinda the coloring you'd picture snow white having. In any case she came behind me with a knife, and pulled my head back and was about to cut my throat, when I woke up. I woke up and I couldn't move. There was a blonde woman in a blue dress (old fashioned, 1850s-ish) floating above me holding my shoulders and I couldn't move. She was trying to kill me too I assumed, though I got the distinct impression she was a ghost. I was able to break away, but it was no less terrifying. In retrospect it was more like she was trying to wake me up. Didn't mind. Rather not die lol __________________ Ew gross germs! It's all icky and corpsey!