Dr. David Thorpe (from SA) Defends Avril Lavigne - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

RoboBlaster · 05-25-2004, 12:44 PM

"Dr." David Thorpe, the guy who usually tears apart popular music on Something Awful had this to say about Avril Lavigne. I found it to be pretty intersting.

Quote:

Uttering the name “Avril Lavigne” in most elitist music-snob circles will provoke a response not unlike that which might result from saying the name “George W. Bush” on the quad of a liberal arts college. All conversation will fall silent. The eyes of those in attendance will fix on you, trying to work out whether you mentioned the name with a tone of spite or, heaven forbid, with a tone of approval. If the slightest barely-perceptible indicator betrays that you have anything but pure righteous hatred of the person named and all that he or she stands for, you’ll be bitterly (and at great length) harangued about, depending on the circumstances, the co-optation of “punk” imagery by the mainstream or dead Iraqi babies. The Bush-Lavigne analogy falls apart when one considers the actual reasoning behind the hatred. Young liberals hate George W. Bush due to what they see as a clear history of quantifiable villainy, but musical elitists hate Avril Lavigne for a far more selfish reason: they hate her for what they think she’s taken away from them.

Just what do they think she’s taken away? Well, first of all, they can’t wear ties anymore, obviously. To a hipster, it would be an unrecoverable loss of face if a total stranger silently and fleetingly assumed that their dandy wardrobe was inspired by a teenaged Canadian pop-star instead of by Paul Weller. What hipsters don’t realize is that the average stranger sees the tie as nothing more than an easy way to file the hipster’s image under the “preening jackasses who are trying to impress someone” section of their mental rolodex. She’s taken many elements of the indie/punk style of dress and made them more accessible to fourteen-year-old girls than ever before. Business is booming at Hot Topic, and it’s not just for goths anymore. Some hipsters might even have become wary of slathering on ridiculous amounts of eyeliner, which has long been a staple of the female (and in many cases, male) hipster look. I think even most hipsters will be fair enough to agree, however, that Avril’s eyeliner use is not so much a theft of their stylistic ground as it is her way of preventing herself from looking exactly like Axl Rose (I’m not saying that as a dig on Avril; it is absolutely and irrefutably true).

It goes deeper than ties and white belts, though. To thousands of people, hearing the name “Avril Lavigne” mentioned in the same breath as the word “punk” is like being slapped in the face with the bloated corpse of their counterculture. Typing those two terms into Google, in fact, will yield countless sites dissecting her connection to that term. She’s hailed as a “punk princess” by some sites and derided as a reprehensible poseur by many more. The truth of the matter is she has more in common with Marilyn Manson than Sid Vicious, in a strange way. Why on earth would I make such a ridiculous statement? It’s simple: she is the whipping-boy for an imaginary moral decline. Much as the Christian right deemed Marilyn Manson a dangerous puppy-smashing psychopath responsible for turning thousands of misfit teenagers against The Lord, the music snobs of the world have deemed Avril Lavigne a manufactured fake responsible for spoon-feeding direly un-hip pop music to thousands of preteens under the false banner of punk. However, any sane person can see that the notion that Avril could possibly contribute anything to the destruction of punk simply by her fairly ridiculous association with it is as laughable as thinking Marilyn Manson ever had any hope of making a lasting impact on anything other than the world’s supply of assless vinyl unitards. The word “punk” has been dragged through the mud for decades by such notorious mainstream faux-punk hacks as Billy Idol and Blink 182. Thousands are concerned that Avril Lavigne has taken something away from the credibility of punk, but perhaps they fail to see that punk has been greedily digesting itself since the moment it began.

So what are the “real” punks worried about? Is their connection on coolness so tenuous that Avril Lavigne actually poses a threat to it? Why should they care about the tastes of a demographic that’s using punk rebellion via Avril to wean them off the Olsen Twins? Their major problem, as I see it, is jealousy. Whether they like it or not, whether it’s authentic or not, Avril Lavigne has done more to invigorate the concepts of punk style and punk music than any of their “real” bands have done in years. She’s put the word “punk” on the tongues of more young people than Jello Biafra ever did. She may be nothing more than a vapid teenager to them, but they hate her for one reason more than any other: she won.

It’s time for the snobs of the world to face the fact that Avril is the future and “authentic” punk is the past. Punk has never been more accessible, what with The Buzzcocks playing in car commercials and Johnny Rotten appearing on reality television. Despite anyone’s best efforts to prevent it, younger and younger kids are going to get curious about punk; since it’s already entered the mainstream in manifold ways, it’s ridiculous to blame Avril or her fans for trying to get in on the coolness bandwagon. She provides an accessible alternative to punk’s fragmented and, in many cases, quite befuddling extremes. Almost every person who considers him or herself a punk has a totally different idea of what punk is; some will tell you that the real punk was only made by angry, sweaty Californian ne’er-do-wells in the 80s, some will tell you that it was made by squealing art-school dropouts in the UK in 1977, and some will probably try to sell you on some hideous hardcore bullshit. To deny Avril Lavigne her place in the lineage of punk music would be short-sighted and ridiculous.

Avril Lavigne, in her own way, is trying to express her alienation in modern society. Sure, she might not have the vitriol of Johnny or the cynicism of Jello, but she is expressing her situation in her own words, and doing so on her own terms. Take “My World,” a track from her debut album as an example:

I never spend less than an hour,
Washin' my hair in the shower,
It always takes five hours to make it straight,
So I'll braid it in a zillion braids,
Though it may take a friggin' day,
There's nothin' else better to do anyway.

Now, if you will, compare it to the Dead Kennedys’ classic “Too Drunk To Fuck.”

Went to a party
I danced all night
I drank 16 beers
And I started up a fight

But now I am jaded
You're out of luck
I'm rolling down the stairs
Too drunk to fuck

What’s the difference? Both of them offer lucid commentary on the lives of the writers. Jello wouldn’t relate to Avril’s lyrics, but Avril certainly wouldn’t relate to Jello’s. Why would one of them begrudge the other the freedom to express the meaningful circumstances of their existence? To stifle or deride such an expression, obviously, wouldn’t be very “punk.”

Is the social confusion and bewilderment of a teenage girl somehow not an important part of the cultural conversation? How is touring malls, as Ms. Lavigne did earlier this year, any less of a comment on consumer-driven society than playing dingy clubs? Why not just quit complaining and let the kids have their fun? Why deny that these very same kids represent the future of punk? The answers that a “real” punk might give to these questions would all point back to the same thing: snobbish, closed-minded elitism. So I ask of you, you hipsters, punk-snobs, and Avril-haters: “Why’d you have to go and make things so complicated?”

Link: http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2160

kl0pper · 05-26-2004, 03:07 AM

i agree with him

Charlatan · 05-26-2004, 05:08 AM

I've been saying this for sometime (if less eloquently). I may be disgusted with the pop machinery that promotes the hell out of her BUT would I rather my daughter listened to and emulated Avril or Britney? I would choose Avril everytime...

YaWhateva · 05-26-2004, 05:23 AM

because if you have heard her voice you would know that she is a horrible singer. I mean her true voice not the synthesized crap that comes from the studio. That is not even close to her voice. Oh and like the day before she got her record deal she looked like any preppy blond bimbo you would find in high school, then the day after her deal she was "punk". The company made her that way, she is not even true to herself why should i care about her then?

But Charlatan is right, I would rather my daughter listen to Avril than Britney or Christina any day.

Charlatan · 05-26-2004, 05:30 AM

Not that I really care to defend her but... what "punk" singer has a great voice... certainly not Jello or Johnny?

OFKU0 · 05-26-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by YaWhateva
because if you have heard her voice you would know that she is a horrible singer. I mean her true voice not the synthesized crap that comes from the studio

I wouldn't say she has a horrible voice. As a matter of fact, her pitch is very good.I make my living as a musician and I've heard a hell of alot worse. Ever hear Celine Dion in the studio? I have and I'll tell you, who ever invented pitch shifting should be paid royalties directly from her.

As far as the article goes, yeah I guess I agree but I don't pay to much attention to people who make a living talking about music and the effects and affects it has on society. Having said that though, I find it interesting ( if such is the case) that punks would be upset with someone who makes pop music who looks punk. I don't recall punks getting up in arms when Johnny Rotten would wear 3 piece suits, corporate ones at that.

Polyphobic · 05-26-2004, 07:45 AM

Personally, I find her bland. And that is enough reason for me to not listen to her. The punk thing is just a silly garnishment to her image. IMHO

God of Thunder · 05-26-2004, 08:53 AM

My argument, as weak as it is, has always been, "at least she plays and instrument and writes her own material."

I once read an article about how she was offered a contract in L.A. by some of the same people who "created" Britney, Christina, Beyonce and the like. She turned it down becuase she wanted to use her own material. To me, giving an L.A. contract the middle finger is pretty "punk".

just my $.02

CSflim · 05-26-2004, 09:22 AM

Well written article. As it happens I don't like Avril Lavigne's music, its just not something that appeals to me. But I do find it funny when elitests get up in arms about how she is "ruining" punk.

meh.

MSD · 05-26-2004, 09:46 AM

I just don't like the music. Any more questions?

Rubyee · 05-26-2004, 10:06 AM

My only problem with her is that her music isn't punk. If you played her song, along with one by Britney and one by Xtina, I probably would not be able to pick hers out. Unless she has made a drastic change between her first and last album...

The other thing that bothers me, and this has less to do with her, is that people in the "original punk movement" dressed the way they did so that they did not look like everyone else. Now, the 14 year old girl punks are dressing that way TO look like everyone else. Gah. The world is upside down.

WarWagon · 05-26-2004, 10:23 AM

Who cares? Can't polish a turd.

Stompy · 05-26-2004, 10:30 AM

(The following is my opinion. I am sorry if I offend anyone)

"He was a sk8er boi, she said see u l8tr boi."

IMO, anyone who writes lyrics like that is a no talent goon. You can try to sprinkle sugar on shit, but in the end, it's still shit. She's no more punk than Aaron Carter is if he were to sing, "My mom took away my gameboy because I didn't do my homework. She's so stupid."

You can't just say, "She's singing about alienation from her perspective, so it's punk." I'd classify it as kiddie punk. There's a difference between singing about alienation in society vs. alienation by your parents because you got a bad report card and now you're grounded.

Would I rather my kid listen to Britney or Avril? Both have an equally negative effect, so neither. I think kids need to be educated about good music and to stay away from the canned acts.

It's a sad state of affairs in the music industry when you actualy try to dissect Avril Lavigne and attempt to justify the exec's decision to throw her in the "punk" category of music.

Rubyee · 05-26-2004, 10:58 AM

In reference to the above post:

*Applauds*

Polyphobic · 05-26-2004, 12:50 PM

-Bogarts Rubyee's applause.-

*Applauds*

filtherton · 05-26-2004, 06:55 PM

I'm still curious why punk even deserves to be defended from the likes of avril. Punk hasn't been relevant for decades, and yet we still have those who would attempt to "keep it real" guarding the gates of punk in a vain attempt to preserve something that has become a caricature of anything it originally stood for. If you were really punk you probably wouldn't even give a shit about avril lavigne. You wouldn't care if punk somehow got co-opted or misappropriated because you're not in it for the scene, you're in it for the lack of a scene. Anyone who complains of the ruination of punk rock has no idea what they're talking about. Punk, at its most relevant, was about the expression of a state of mind, not a dirty alcoholic singing about beating up hippies. If anything could ruin punk, it would have to be the punk elitest who by the very nature of their elitest attitudes betray the fact that they have no idea why punk rock was important.

YaWhateva · 05-26-2004, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charlatan
Not that I really care to defend her but... what "punk" singer has a great voice... certainly not Jello or Johnny?

not saying other punk singers have nice voices, but their live sound is not terribly different from their studio sound. Avril sounds completely different in studio and live to the point where it doesnt sound at all like the same person. IMO that is a sign of a fake. And her music appeals not to me at all, but to 14 year old girls.

Holo · 05-26-2004, 08:19 PM

I personally think Blink182 have done more damage to punk than Avril.

filtherton · 05-26-2004, 08:23 PM

I think anyone who thinks punk is damagable is grasping at straws. You can't damage a genre of music.

Stompy · 05-27-2004, 05:15 AM

I won't pretend to be an avid fan of punk, because I'm really not. I do, however, appreciate what the genre has introduced and the scene it created.

The thing here is... this author is trying to convince people that Avril Lavigne ISN'T bad when she really is. See, it's not just a preference of music thing or a generation gap.

There's a reason why people glare at you if you speak positively of her just like there's a reason people would glare at you if you praised Milli Vanilli or Vanilla Ice.

It's mass marketed junk. It's "business music" that exists purely to make money. It's not music made for the purpose of being creative, it's music that's made to cater to the likes of millions of people to see who could buy the most.. and nothing more. I know people might not like that opinion, but it's true.

...and this author tries to classify her as PUNK of all things? Isn't this a big part of what punk was against? If she was going against the grain, then perhaps you could say she has punk-like qualities, but in an industry where shit is churned out left and right to make a quick buck then forgotten about 10 years down the road... to classify it as anything other than "crappy money generating music" would be inappropriate.

[edit]
What's sad is the fact that our culture is actually encouraging this type of shit. Look at American Idol. People will argue, "Yeah, but those people can really sing!"... well, of course. They went through a process of elimination, but it doesn't mean the music is good and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean there isn't anyone better out there. They only screen the slightest fraction of people from each city, so if they find someone who can sing, it's not saying much.

shred_head · 05-28-2004, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rubyee
The other thing that bothers me, and this has less to do with her, is that people in the "original punk movement" dressed the way they did so that they did not look like everyone else. Now, the 14 year old girl punks are dressing that way TO look like everyone else. Gah. The world is upside down.

Can you really say that if when the punks decided not to dress and look like everyone else they still all ended up looking like each other? If they didn't want to look like anyone else then why could you always pick out a punk kid by how they dressed? Any group that tries to promote individualism and not being part of a 'machine' should not have it's own form of dress/attire because then you're no longer different, you're still the same but just part of a different 'machine.'

kl0pper · 05-29-2004, 01:37 AM

i dont understand how avril is "ruining" punk
its not like real punk bands are listening to her and saying "hey thats pretty good, lets do something like that, guys"

Mehoni · 05-29-2004, 08:24 AM

I dislike Avril because she's ignorant.. and I don't like her music. She remind some of people who change styles a lot.

Monday: Goth
Tuesday: Punk
Wednesday: Rap
Thursday: Prep
Friday: Nerd
Saturday: Metal
Sunday: RnB

Avril:

"I wish everyone would stop saying that I'm not "punk"! God damnit, I created punk for this day and age. Do you see Britney walking around wearing ties and singing punk? Hell no. Thats what I do. I'm like a Sid Vicious for a new generation. People look up to me and want to be me. And thats fine, just don't try to copy the sh*t I do!"

and then: ( when asked who the Sex Pistols were)
"I dunno...Aren't they some old dudes?"

" I grew up on the mean streets of Canada and I had to surrvive!"

YaWhateva · 05-29-2004, 10:35 PM

those quotes make me angered...

WarWagon · 05-29-2004, 11:11 PM

Wow, arrogant little bitch, ain't she?

H12 · 05-31-2004, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mehoni
" I grew up on the mean streets of Canada and I had to surrvive!"

LOL.

I enjoy Avril's singles, though I think the rest of her music is shit, bluntly. I don't consider her "punk", period, but I enjoy her singles nonetheless.

rev_skarekroe · 06-02-2004, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charlatan
I've been saying this for sometime (if less eloquently). I may be disgusted with the pop machinery that promotes the hell out of her BUT would I rather my daughter listened to and emulated Avril or Britney? I would choose Avril everytime...

So would I.
Which means that, if I had a daughter, she would doubtless choose Britney just to spite me.

Tom Thumb · 06-02-2004, 01:44 PM

I think Stompy best explained why Avril isn't punk. Myself, I dislike her because she's awful. Her lyrics are insipid, those quoted are actually some of her better ones, and it's actually pretty obvious her songs came from the Matrix.

And she plays guitar on exactly one of the tracks on "Let Go," so trying to get her off the hook by calling her "real" doesn't work either.

Now. about this article. I'm thinking (hoping) that it's in the vein of many of the other "your favourite band sucks" articles - a joke. Come on, everyone knows that Radiohead doesn't suck.

kl0pper · 06-02-2004, 10:46 PM

um all those articles are serious
radiohead DOES suck.

TheClarkster · 06-03-2004, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stompy
It's mass marketed junk. It's "business music" that exists purely to make money. It's not music made for the purpose of being creative, it's music that's made to cater to the likes of millions of people to see who could buy the most.. and nothing more. I know people might not like that opinion, but it's true.

...and this author tries to classify her as PUNK of all things? Isn't this a big part of what punk was against? If she was going against the grain, then perhaps you could say she has punk-like qualities, but in an industry where shit is churned out left and right to make a quick buck then forgotten about 10 years down the road... to classify it as anything other than "crappy money generating music" would be inappropriate.

I believe that is spot on.

And seriously, how could you not believe someone with an MSI lyric in their sig?

Jadedfox · 06-03-2004, 03:41 AM

I can't believe you are even arguing about this.

--jaded

05-26-2004, 05:08 AM	#3 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I've been saying this for sometime (if less eloquently). I may be disgusted with the pop machinery that promotes the hell out of her BUT would I rather my daughter listened to and emulated Avril or Britney? I would choose Avril everytime... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-26-2004, 05:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
YaWhateva Friend Location: New Mexico	because if you have heard her voice you would know that she is a horrible singer. I mean her true voice not the synthesized crap that comes from the studio. That is not even close to her voice. Oh and like the day before she got her record deal she looked like any preppy blond bimbo you would find in high school, then the day after her deal she was "punk". The company made her that way, she is not even true to herself why should i care about her then? But Charlatan is right, I would rather my daughter listen to Avril than Britney or Christina any day. __________________ “If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly "This is my United States of Whateva!"

05-26-2004, 05:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Not that I really care to defend her but... what "punk" singer has a great voice... certainly not Jello or Johnny? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-26-2004, 07:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
Polyphobic Runt Location: Denver	Personally, I find her bland. And that is enough reason for me to not listen to her. The punk thing is just a silly garnishment to her image. IMHO __________________ <--The great infidel-->

05-26-2004, 08:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
God of Thunder Talk nerdy to me Location: Flint, MI	My argument, as weak as it is, has always been, "at least she plays and instrument and writes her own material." I once read an article about how she was offered a contract in L.A. by some of the same people who "created" Britney, Christina, Beyonce and the like. She turned it down becuase she wanted to use her own material. To me, giving an L.A. contract the middle finger is pretty "punk". just my $.02 __________________ I reject your reality, and substitute my own -- Adam Savage

05-26-2004, 03:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
kl0pper Crazy Location: thailand	i agree with him

05-26-2004, 09:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Well written article. As it happens I don't like Avril Lavigne's music, its just not something that appeals to me. But I do find it funny when elitests get up in arms about how she is "ruining" punk. meh. __________________

05-26-2004, 09:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I just don't like the music. Any more questions?

05-26-2004, 10:06 AM	#11 (permalink)
Rubyee I'm baaaaack!	My only problem with her is that her music isn't punk. If you played her song, along with one by Britney and one by Xtina, I probably would not be able to pick hers out. Unless she has made a drastic change between her first and last album... The other thing that bothers me, and this has less to do with her, is that people in the "original punk movement" dressed the way they did so that they did not look like everyone else. Now, the 14 year old girl punks are dressing that way TO look like everyone else. Gah. The world is upside down. __________________ You don't know from fun.

05-26-2004, 10:23 AM	#12 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	Who cares? Can't polish a turd.

05-26-2004, 10:30 AM	#13 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	(The following is my opinion. I am sorry if I offend anyone) "He was a sk8er boi, she said see u l8tr boi." IMO, anyone who writes lyrics like that is a no talent goon. You can try to sprinkle sugar on shit, but in the end, it's still shit. She's no more punk than Aaron Carter is if he were to sing, "My mom took away my gameboy because I didn't do my homework. She's so stupid." You can't just say, "She's singing about alienation from her perspective, so it's punk." I'd classify it as kiddie punk. There's a difference between singing about alienation in society vs. alienation by your parents because you got a bad report card and now you're grounded. Would I rather my kid listen to Britney or Avril? Both have an equally negative effect, so neither. I think kids need to be educated about good music and to stay away from the canned acts. It's a sad state of affairs in the music industry when you actualy try to dissect Avril Lavigne and attempt to justify the exec's decision to throw her in the "punk" category of music. __________________ I love lamp.

05-26-2004, 10:58 AM	#14 (permalink)
Rubyee I'm baaaaack!	In reference to the above post: Applauds __________________ You don't know from fun.

05-26-2004, 12:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
Polyphobic Runt Location: Denver	-Bogarts Rubyee's applause.- Applauds __________________ <--The great infidel-->

05-26-2004, 06:55 PM	#16 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I'm still curious why punk even deserves to be defended from the likes of avril. Punk hasn't been relevant for decades, and yet we still have those who would attempt to "keep it real" guarding the gates of punk in a vain attempt to preserve something that has become a caricature of anything it originally stood for. If you were really punk you probably wouldn't even give a shit about avril lavigne. You wouldn't care if punk somehow got co-opted or misappropriated because you're not in it for the scene, you're in it for the lack of a scene. Anyone who complains of the ruination of punk rock has no idea what they're talking about. Punk, at its most relevant, was about the expression of a state of mind, not a dirty alcoholic singing about beating up hippies. If anything could ruin punk, it would have to be the punk elitest who by the very nature of their elitest attitudes betray the fact that they have no idea why punk rock was important.

05-26-2004, 08:19 PM	#18 (permalink)
Holo A Real American	I personally think Blink182 have done more damage to punk than Avril. __________________ I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince

05-26-2004, 08:23 PM	#19 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think anyone who thinks punk is damagable is grasping at straws. You can't damage a genre of music.

05-27-2004, 05:15 AM	#20 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	I won't pretend to be an avid fan of punk, because I'm really not. I do, however, appreciate what the genre has introduced and the scene it created. The thing here is... this author is trying to convince people that Avril Lavigne ISN'T bad when she really is. See, it's not just a preference of music thing or a generation gap. There's a reason why people glare at you if you speak positively of her just like there's a reason people would glare at you if you praised Milli Vanilli or Vanilla Ice. It's mass marketed junk. It's "business music" that exists purely to make money. It's not music made for the purpose of being creative, it's music that's made to cater to the likes of millions of people to see who could buy the most.. and nothing more. I know people might not like that opinion, but it's true. ...and this author tries to classify her as PUNK of all things? Isn't this a big part of what punk was against? If she was going against the grain, then perhaps you could say she has punk-like qualities, but in an industry where shit is churned out left and right to make a quick buck then forgotten about 10 years down the road... to classify it as anything other than "crappy money generating music" would be inappropriate. [edit] What's sad is the fact that our culture is actually encouraging this type of shit. Look at American Idol. People will argue, "Yeah, but those people can really sing!"... well, of course. They went through a process of elimination, but it doesn't mean the music is good and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean there isn't anyone better out there. They only screen the slightest fraction of people from each city, so if they find someone who can sing, it's not saying much. __________________ I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 05-27-2004 at 05:24 AM..

05-29-2004, 01:37 AM	#22 (permalink)
kl0pper Crazy Location: thailand	i dont understand how avril is "ruining" punk its not like real punk bands are listening to her and saying "hey thats pretty good, lets do something like that, guys"

05-29-2004, 08:24 AM	#23 (permalink)
Mehoni Insane Location: Within the Woods	I dislike Avril because she's ignorant.. and I don't like her music. She remind some of people who change styles a lot. Monday: Goth Tuesday: Punk Wednesday: Rap Thursday: Prep Friday: Nerd Saturday: Metal Sunday: RnB Avril: "I wish everyone would stop saying that I'm not "punk"! God damnit, I created punk for this day and age. Do you see Britney walking around wearing ties and singing punk? Hell no. Thats what I do. I'm like a Sid Vicious for a new generation. People look up to me and want to be me. And thats fine, just don't try to copy the sht I do!" and then: ( when asked who the Sex Pistols were) "I dunno...Aren't they some old dudes?"* " I grew up on the mean streets of Canada and I had to surrvive!" __________________ There seem to be countless rituals and cultural beliefs designed to alleviate their fear of a simple biological truth - all organisms eventually perish.

05-29-2004, 10:35 PM	#24 (permalink)
YaWhateva Friend Location: New Mexico	those quotes make me angered... __________________ “If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly "This is my United States of Whateva!"

05-29-2004, 11:11 PM	#25 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	Wow, arrogant little bitch, ain't she?

06-02-2004, 01:44 PM	#28 (permalink)
Tom Thumb Crazy Location: In a self portrait	I think Stompy best explained why Avril isn't punk. Myself, I dislike her because she's awful. Her lyrics are insipid, those quoted are actually some of her better ones, and it's actually pretty obvious her songs came from the Matrix. And she plays guitar on exactly one of the tracks on "Let Go," so trying to get her off the hook by calling her "real" doesn't work either. Now. about this article. I'm thinking (hoping) that it's in the vein of many of the other "your favourite band sucks" articles - a joke. Come on, everyone knows that Radiohead doesn't suck. __________________ My name is marketing. Now buy my product.

06-02-2004, 10:46 PM	#29 (permalink)
kl0pper Crazy Location: thailand	um all those articles are serious radiohead DOES suck.

06-03-2004, 03:41 AM	#31 (permalink)
Jadedfox Egocentric Location: World of Warcraft	I can't believe you are even arguing about this. --jaded __________________ There is no fucking you, there is only me.