Why does rap even exist?
 

I don't know about you guys, but I've been wondering lately why rap still exists. Rap, as it stands now, is by far the worst genre of music out there in my opinion. But i'm looking forward to seeing the responses I get from this, so if you can tell me why rap is still around go for it, or if you hate it as much as I and wonder why it's still around, say something. But let's see what you people here at good ol' TFP think.

Top 40 is bad, sure, but not all Rap is bad. The only genre that is all bad right now is Pop, mainly because Pop is Top 40.

That's being overly judgemental.
I'm not a fan of rap, but I understand it. Some people are really good at it, most are complete crap. Doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. As long as MTV plays it, though, it will be around. There is a whole culture that embraces it.

i'd have to agree with halx, some people ARE really good at it, i know i couldn't freestyle if my life depnded on it... however, i've gotten to the point of not being able to watch muchmusic or mtv because i can't stand to watch rap every second video.. rap and pop, cant stand them... its too bad edgetv shut down, it was the best music channel i've ever seen.

it will prolly go the way of the hair band at some point.. until then.. deal.. hehehe

I definetely don't understand why rap is as big as it is.

Sure, it may take skill to make good lyrics (although most the lyrics in rap are pretty bad anyways) or to freestyle or whatever but as far as carrying a good tone and being able to actually "sing" rappers don't show that they have that skill. At least singers in the other genres show that they can actually sing. Rappers just pretty much yell out things that rhyme.

However, i do think it takes talent to be able to write some of the lyrics they do. But music isn't just about being able to write good lyrics.

Why does country exist? I hate it, but it's still there. Why? Because a lot of people love it. Rap makes more money than anything right now, thanks to MTV. I'm glad it "still exists", as it gives me more options when I want to listen to something.

Heh, that'd be like me saying why does rock exist. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but to not acknowledge that rap isn't music is just being ignorant.

I don't know. I REALLY LIKE the idea of giving rhythm to the spoken word and attaching a bassline. Pity it's been done so badly.

Everybody hates gangsta rap, but there are other kinds too that are quite worth a listen.

I'm not saying that freestyle is bad, the rap I speak of is the so called 'gangsta' rap. It's stupid, ya know. How many people can honestly tell me that gangsta rap is music? Lyrics wrote by rappers like Ludacris and Eminem are horrible. Eminem can freestyle i'll give him that, but the lyrics to a lot of his songs are some of the worst lyrics i've ever heard in my life.

You calling me ignorant because my taste in music differs from yours? Or am I misinterpreting what you said?

rap represents black culture. i live in brooklyn and i believe that they really live it.

imo - some of it is catchy. most of it has lots of energy. so i don't hate it although i am a rock fan. weezer and greenday baby!

Look man first I'll handle this maturely and tell you that you're being very ignorant with your words. Okay lemme school on why rap first started. Rap started as a fun type party thing yes....but the true reason rap started is because of the conditions that the african american had to go through every day. The entire hip-hop culture (Emcee'n, B-boy'n, Tag'n, Dj'n) started as a way to get children off of the streets....to get them away from the drugs and the violence that was their everyday actuality. It also gave people who would have never been given a chance a way to make something of themselves and be able to live a sucessful life, making good money without having to sell drugs or wind up in jail. Education in some area's really is bullshit and for most people they just aren't given a chance. Rather than try hard to get a degree from a bunch of people who are just gonna look down on them anyway they say ta hell with all that. Thats still what they are doing. And though I know most of them really don't have a lot of lyrical talent I still can't hate on them for wanting to better their situation. We all make bad choices knaw mean? 50 cent is a good example...if he was never given a chance in the music industry he'd prolly be slingin drugs comin in and out a jail. And I know what you're saying "So what thats their fault they coulda gotten an education blah blah blah" all I say to that is unless you livin their reality....you dunno shit about it and you don't know if education really was an option for them....Some a ya'll have never experianced some real discrimination or some real racism so really you dunno so ya have no business talkin bout it. It really started as more of a no equal opportunity thing and still that way in a lot of cases today.

Now as for you. Do you write lyrics yourself? And by lyrics I mean REAL lyrics not the rinky dink shit you see on MTV everyday.(If you need an example I'll show you) Cause if you don't then you really don't know what you are talking about. Take it from me. I am both a rapper and a singer...I'm not blowing smoke up your ass I really and truely do both and I'd like to think I do both extremely well all conciet asside I have a real passion for it. And I can tell you for a fact I do both and rapping is MUCH harder than singing. If you have a good voice you can sing anything and it sounds good. Most of the worlds most famous vocalists don't even write their own lyrics they just sing other peoples songs and no one has a problem with it. (Ex: BoysIIMen, Celine Dion, Various boybands & girl groups have had most of their big hits written for them...Destiny's Child for example, etc.) In the hip-hop world you absolutely cannot have the lyrics written for you and get away with it. It has to be complete originality. If someone finds out you have a ghostwriter....you're nothing. Rhyming is not as easy as it seems especially since you have to accurately portray exact feelings and emotions all while still rhyming. When you sing you only have to put words or sentences its not hard if you look at most songs the lyrics are very simply written and since you have a good voice it's very easy to make the simplest lyrics sound great. Thats not the same with rapping like you said since yer basically just "talking" you have to have something else there that is of appeal. You have to have a good flow, delivery, word usage, metaphors, multiple rhyme schemes...all while keeping time. I challenge any of you to write a rhyme and impress me. It wouldn't be easy. It's really hard to explain but I do both and I know it for a fact rapping is definitely harder than singing. If you really wanna do it good and respectfully instead of these fuckers who do cat in the hat rhymes for a quick buck I can honestly say it's one of the hardest genre's out there except for Choral and operatic music....and instrumentalism.

Asta!!

Man, they're still slingin' drugs now that they have mounds of cash... don't deny that.

Not all of em man. Most of them don't need to anymore so why the hell would they ya know? Really doesn't make sense. Only the ones that haven't truely made it still do that. But for the really big names....they already have money and there is way too much risk involved in slingin drugs to wanna pursue it further. There is also no future what so ever in it. Eventually everyone gets caught or killed and they gotta keep that in mind every day they do that.

Asta!!

mainstream rap right now is a horrid monster, and in order to make it big you have to talk about material possesions ... women ... and crap like that. if you would make an effort to check out underground artists i think you would find that there are people out there trying to put out intelligent, thought provoking lyrics that are not mtv bullcrap. for instance, check out an underground label called Definitive Jux. some of their artists include: Cannibal Ox, they're founder El-P, Aesop Rock, and my personal favorite Mr. Lif. dont deny yourself this fantastic genere of music because mtv butchers it to hell. hardly anything on mtv is a true representation of the music anyway so dont base your opinions on that.

Couldn't a said it better myself. Def Jux has got some great artists I'm a huge fan a Aesop as well. Binary Star are another great group....Black Star too. Saul Williams(Also a well noted poet). List goes on and on and on.

Asta!!

Was just a statement, wasn't directed at anyone. I was just saying the people that don't acknowledge that rap is still music even if you don't like it is just being ignorant.

Uh..the reason rappers "cant sing", is because they don't sing..they rap :p

Rap can, and is quality music. You can't dismiss it because you don't enjoy it, or because you think it's too popular or whatever. A lot of eminem's lyrics are pretty fucked up, I agree..but they are pretty much all genius, and a lot of kids can relate to them, thus he sells records. Eminem represent's *mainstream* rap, and he does it extremely well. I don't know anything about underground rap, or freestyling, but everyone's got their form of expression and if you can't respect it you probably shouldn't talk about it.

Ya, there isn't too many words that rhyme with Bitch :D

There is lots of music that i despise...But I don't think I have ever thought why does this music exist.

I honestly think that i have never heard a question like that before.:hmm:

What I was gonna say has already been said by a few different people in previous posts...Listening to Rap is one thing, But actually knowing why it was started and what it all means is another...IMO anyways....

itch
mitch
ditch
sandwich
bah, i dunno. I was actually going to write a list but then i got bored after 4 words... i just dont have it in me today. hahaha

if they aren't selling drugs, they're doin' drugs... risk or not.. they think they are invincible BECAUSE they have so much money.

Thats just what happens when humans get famous. I'm willing to say 75% of the time.

I don't have a problem with rap at all. I mean I don't like it but I don't get upset with it. I have coem to this point mainly because of one fact, rap isn't music. Really man most rap is not music at all it is something else, it is poetry. And to think of rap as poetry kinda makes the situation worse for most rapper not only is it bad music but it is also bad poetry aswell. I think rappers should get thier heads around the fac that they are not creating music and that they are lucky that people think it is music, 'cause think of how many people would acctually buy a book of "gangsta" poetry....

So can you guys give me a couple reasons why you hate rap so much...Specially you downwardspiral. Besides saying that It's not music?

I agree with you somewhat, But not all rappers are doin drugs...One rapper that I thought would definately be a drug head was Ice T, But openly said in an Interview that he doesn't drink or do any kind of drugs. Even though that could have been bullshit, I actually believe that he doesn't do any drugs.

Ice Cube, I am unable to see him doing drugs...He just didn't seem like the type to do them, he was one man that has his head on straight...Look at him, Rapper gone Movie Star practically.

I don't know, I may be wrong but I think there are alot that don't do them.

As is the same in all genre's of music as well so that argument has no grounds what so ever. The beatles were doped up, so were the rolling stones, so was Elvis, so were Nirvana, Whitney, Zepplin, etc. etc. Some it's even been the death of em. Most of em do at least one form or drug or alchohol. Doesn't mean it isn't music. I mean look at groups like The Talking Heads. I bet you think they were revolutionary but they weren't singing. They were just talkin. Same with Punk music all their doing is screaming but yet thats considered music. Think about what you say before ya say something stupid.

Asta!!

Reasons why I hate rap you want? I guess the main reason why is that when I hear rap on TV or on the radio or something, all I hear is some fast talking moron who talks about his money, his drugs, yaya etc and it gets really annoying. Those rappers like 50 Cent and all the mainstream rappers in my opinion give rap a bad name, thus if the vast majority of what you hear is crap, you don't wanna hear anymore of the artists from that genre because you assume that they all sound the same. To me they do all sound the same. And if artists in a genre sound the same, what's the point? Overlyjudgmental? Perhaps, but that's my opinion.

i just think it's funny as K-Wise stated, that the hip-hop culture all started as a way to get kids off the streets because of..(drugs and violence)....and now all i hear them rap about is...(drugs and violence)...keep in mind, all the rap i hear is on the radio

I love it. Some of the most modern sounds and bass lines come from this music. All music is sounding a little like rap now anyway. Country to Rock. If we keep listening to sounds of the past, where will we be in 5 or 10 years?

It's here still just to piss you off.


Happy now?


HOLLA

Keep in mind that this is all entertainment...But at the same time, 99% of MC's were raised in this kind of Environment...They are rapping about what they have been through in thier life.

They are rapping about what the average African American goes through living in the ghetto...About what goes on in the Ghetto. And don't say that it's there choice to stay in the Ghetto...Cause they usually aren't given a chance to better themselves....So they start rapping about what they have went through and what they are going through in life....And you know what? There is more people than you know that relate to it...Not just black people but every race.

Most of you think that Rap is garbage...Well I think Country is Garbage, I don't complain about it though...I just don't listen to it.

Maybe it's that you can't relate to it...Or you don't know anything about it except what you want to know....And from what I am seeing, The reason is because they Rap about Drugs & Violence...So what?

I think rap and country both are garbage, how's that :)

Yeah, that's it for me. There's just something about hearing a guy yelling about how rich he is or about beating the shit out of people or about how much drugs they do that just seems a little stupid to me. But then again, that's just me.

Well...I know that you will never like rap, But don't assume because of the MC's that are shitty, That the whole scene is shitty...Cause that couldn't be further from the truth.

If I really am that far from the truth, as you put it, than enlighten me as to what the truth is, in your words.

Its a street thing that many here will never understand. Its everywhere because its liked by so many young whites. Its all about demagraphics. If if wasn't popular with that group then you would only hear it on certain areas and radio stations.

Its become so big that it is the only true music driving force out there. Most music style have lost popularity. But rap endures. The first main stream rap song I believe was Sugarhill Gang's Rapper's Delight. I think that song came out in 1979. So the mainstream rap culture has been around for 24 years and its never been bigger. It influences music, fashion and attitude in today's young. Several types of music have come and gone in the same time period but rap still prevails. For ex. punk, new wave, hair band rock, grunge, etc. I know that those kinds of music are still popular in certain parts of the population but not as big as rap is.

I'm not really into it like a few here but I can see what influences it has had in today's culture.

Like it or not, you can always change the channel.


Glad

When HipHop first started, It wasn't about money..It was MC's being creative..And experimenting with a new sound, Something The black people could call thier own, To this day there are still MC's outhere that are doing the same thing...It's not about money, The MC's that your hearing on the radio are shit..Well the majority of them are anyways.

All these new MC's that have been coming out the past 5 years or so...Have totally been fucking the scene up with thier lyrics about how much money they got and Bling Bling shit...It's bullshit.

That's not what rap is about...Good HipHop is the shit being produced that's not mainstream...They are Spitting pure Knowledge...I have seen some of K-Wises lyrics that has written, That's HipHop.

So pretty much what I am saying is that i agree with you that the HipHop that you are seeing on TV & hearing on the radio is 90% garbage...But that's all that you are hearing, You don't hear the underground shit that has a totally different sound...I mean ya it's rap, But the tracks have a totally different meaning than the shit you are hearing.

I have said this before...Like the average HipHop head wants to hear some pussy ass MC rap about how much money he's got..And whatever else that they be clockin.

I want to hear Rap that I can relate to...And MC's that rap about Bling Bling and how many bitches they got and how they have a different car for everyday of the week...i can't relate to that, And I bet the majority of thier fans can't relate to that either.

So what you are hearing is totally different than the real shit that's being produced in the underground scene.

TV and radio rap being 90% garbage? If it all sounds the same how can 10% of it be not garbage?

Good point IC3.

Rap and hip hop in its truest form can be considered an art form in free expressions, rythm and beats. Not that gangsta rap, bling bling and the ho's I've banged.

Glad

HipHop sounding all the same is just your opinion, there is actually groups out there that have done there beats on a drum set and guitars.

Me saying that 90% of Mainstream HipHop is garbage is just my Opinion...Just like you have said your opinions...And any true HipHop head on TFP will most likely agree with me that...There is a difference between Underground & mainstream HipHop...I am almost 100% aggreeing with you that The shit that YOU are hearing is garbage...But I do like some of the stuff on the radio, Not much but there is a little bit.

I can't really explain it, But you are hearing...I guess...Like 1 side of HipHop...And that is only the stuff on the radio & TV, There is so much more out there than that.

It's pointless IC3. All he's saying is, "I don't like rap, I don't like rap, I don't like rap." over and over again. It's something he and many others will never get and maybe it's better off that way.

I just want downwardspiral to realize that what he's hearing is not what true HipHop is.

What you are hearing is not what true hiphop is, These so called MC's are not helping the scene, I mean can somebody tell me of another type of music out there that sings about how fucking rich they are? I can't seem to think of one:rolleyes:

That's what is being played on the radio, That's what is giving HipHop a bad Rep...I agree with you that I don't want to hear somebody rap about how rich they are.

But don't let that shit blind you from something that was once a Passion for the music...There is still alot of MC's that have the passion the Fake MC's don't have.

I actually seen an interview of....Either de la soul or The Roots...But anyways, One of the MC's were asked who they are liking in the hiphop world, He said that he was dissapointed in rap...That's when you know there is a problem in the scene, When MC's are saying they are dissapointed in rap, And they are talking about the guys that are on the radio...Well the majority of it anyways.

saying all hip hop sounds the same is silly and ignorant. especially when some of you say all the rap you hear is on the radio/mtv. well any genre of music through those outlets all sounds the same so why are you even posting your opinions when you only hear the crappiest form of hip hop out there? like i said if you would make an effort to check out underground artists your thoughts would change but since you dont why are you making ignorant claims (i.e. all they talk about is violence, its all the same, etc.) it really angers me and it doesnt make sense to me. basing your opinions on what your fed through the radio and tv ... unbelieveable

Same could be said about all the fuckin rock music thats on the air right now. Every single one a these fuckin punk bands sounds the same and so do all of these new alternative bands. I mean they actually really do sound the same from every aspect, the singing is the same, they are all playing the same riffs over and over again, the subject matter is pratically the same. At least in hip-hop the only thing that sounds the same is the fact that it's all speaking. But the beats, delivery, rhymes, are mainly different in one way shape or form. Just listen to

Wu-Tang Clan
De La Soul
Aesop Rock
Cannibal Ox
The Roots
Mars Ill
Canibus
Kardinal Official
Heiroglyphics

The list could go on but NONE of those groups/artists sound the same as the group/artist above them. Maybe to you they may sound the same but if they still do it's just cause you have a fuckin subconcious bias towards them and you want them all to sound the same but the fact of the matter is none of them do. And if you still would rather say you hate rap it all sux, none of it is good writing then fine leave it the fuck alone they didn't make it for you anyway.

Asta!!

I'll start off with you numberfive in saying that you are right, I don't get this mainstream rap people listen to today. I don't get why people can listen to people talk about how rich they are, how many ho's they've banged, how much bling bling they have and so on. Gangsta rap is a pointless genre of music, but that's my opinion. Maybe I should have specified that in the title of the thread. And you IC3, I'm not denying that what I hear isn't the so called 'true hiphop' or whatever, because I myself know it isn't hiphop, it's garbage. The 'true hiphop' you speak of probably dosent have anything to do with bling blng and shit, and that's a good thing. And costello, i'll tell you the same thing I told numberfive, gangsta rap is pointless and I should have put that I meant gangsta rap in the thread title. No need to get angry, but you said that we base our opinions upon what we hear on TV and Radio, right? And that makes you angry? But isn't that what we Americans do? Most American opinions are based off of what we hear and see as it is. As for you K-Wise, I'll agree that all the new pop-punk bands sound the same, and I hate them as much as I hate gangsta rap. But saying that I have a subconcious bias towards rap because I don't like it and that I want it all to sound the same but it really dosent, let me ask you, have you heard the rap I have been telling you I hate lately? The pop/gangsta rap on the radio and on TV? It does all sound the same, and thats the rap I hate! As I told IC3 the underground rap as you call it probably dosen't go on and on about bling bling and that's good! None of the gangsta rap is good written lyrics, it's all stupid, and I agree w/ you again they didn't write their shitty bling bling lyrics for me, or you or anyone. They wrote it because they know that teenie bopper kids who think listening to Parental Advisory CD's is cool, and that those kids can and will con parents in to buying it for them. It's either those kids who con parents, or the people who think they have to be cool, so they'll get mainstream rap music to have something in comon with their peers. Now if you have anything else to say go for it.

Rap exists to piss me off. That is the only reason why.

You didn't read me right. I said if you listened to all of those groups I mentioned and you still think that all rap sounds the same then you have a subconcious bias towards it. Not that you currently do....you haven't heard all of it for me to know that. Stop going back to that crap heh. I completely agree with you that all of that crap you see on T.V. sounds exactly the same and it sux but look at it this way....I don't consider that to be rap. No one should. I'm saying forget about all of that crap and don't ever listen to it again. Give the underground hip-hop a chance and if you still don't like it then it's just not your thing....I won't hate you for it. I think any idiot can recognize the many different sounds in a lot of rap groups and at least acknowledge that fact....and I think any mature person can admitt that a particular rap song may have some very awe inspiring writing...they don't necessarily have to like it though just give it the respect that it deserves. I haven't heard too many other artists in the many genre's of music who can write half as good as some of the best rappers out there. The sooner people see that....the happier I'll be. Good writing is good writing no matter who does it. If ya really wanna check out some of the good stuff I'll suggest some stuff. I doubt I'd be able to sway your opinion of it though. Jesus you guys big Bill O Reily fans or sumfin? Theres another bastard I'd like to prove wrong (not directed at anyone just a guy I can't stand) Well...

Asta!!

Bill O' Reilly. . . the guy who debated with Jenna Jameson about porn? Haha

Guess not haha.

Asta!!

I couldv'e swore it was O'reilly who dabated w/ Jenna on the subject of porn. . . lol

Oh yeah, it was Bill all right. I remember seeing that interview actually, man it was funny as hell watching him debate with her too.

I knew it was Bill! I thought thats who they said on E True Hollywood Story for Jenna.

I was saying guess not to the question of whether you like him or not haha. Double standards are everywhere though. Just as I hate the crappy ass rap music I love havin a bitch rub her ass on muh crotch to it and just as I think women should get real jobs..I'll watch some porn in a heart beat. Confusion is rampant

Asta!!

I've turned my rap thread into a Jenna Jameson/Bill O'Reilly debate flashback, oh well lol

Dont worry worse things have happened.....Milly Vanillly.....Missy Elliot....Carson.

Asta!!

Haha, this is true K-Wise, so very true.

Now Now...We can't leave Vanilla Ice of that list of yours:D

Rap exists to balance out country;).

I'm vaguely amused by this entire discussion (and no, I don't listen to rap except for Eminem, who I only listen to in the car), because it makes me think of the history of music. Since Bach's day, discussions like this have been going on. All music exists for one reason or another, and yes, sometimes it just pisses people off. As an example, there was a riot at the first performance of Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" (the dinosaur sequence in Disney's "Fantasia," for those who may be unfamiliar with it). People questioned the existence of that piece. People have questioned why everyone from Hector Berlioz to John Cage had to exist, but, like rappers, they had something to say in their own way, and they said it. As with most musical forms, some rap and hip-hop is amazingly good, and some is amazingly bad. It's the way music goes. If you don't like it, there's not much I can do about it. You are not alone in your dislike of the genre, but it seems silly to question "Why does it even exist?"

IMO rap/hip-hop sucks and I can't see how anybody could consdier it musical talent. Sure some of the lyrics might be good but they aren't even creating the music. I have never heard such a horrible attempt at creating music.

Someone finally sees it the way I have been. . . wow.

I hate most rap... but I love some of Eminems work... he is a VERY good storyteller.

to piss me off. Thats why.

That right there is just being ignorant.

I have to agreee that that is ignorant.. =)

For me.. there is a lot of Rap I dont like, but there is a lot I do. So its obviously not all sounding the same.

Just because you dont like it, doesn't mean others don't and that it shouldn't be classified as what YOU think music should be.

Eminem's version of "Sing for the Moment" is one of my favorite songs of any genre.

It is ironic to see someone named after a NIN album complain about rap. Isn't NIN just some sad guy screamsinging bad rap? ;)

More importantly, if you don't understand why a form of music exists, than you probably don't understand why any music exists. If you don't take the time to understand something, then of course it is all gonna be the same to you- you don't know shit about it. All metal sounds the same if you don't care enough to figure out the difference. So does country, or gospel, or folk for that matter. The only difference between NIN and staind is that trent hates life all by himself, while Staind hates life as a team, right.

Please and you think most a these other dudes are "creating the music" ?? What the hell do you think a beat is? Look at real producers not Puffy...look at Pete Rock, Alchemist, Rza, 4th Disciple, Hi-Tek, Dj Premier all these cats make original beats using various samples n sounds they can find. Beat machine is the exact same shit as an instrument cept prolly harder to do than one. Especially since you got all these cats who play the same 3 riffs 90 other bands before them played. You have a bias whether you'd like to admitt it or not. Edger Allen Poe...if you read The Raven it's just like a rap song. You could even spit it over a beat. And stop giving Eminem all the credit. I hate how people are like "Yeah I hate rap but I love Eminem" like he's the only good rapper out. You know how many people rap like him? He stole his steez from cats like Masta Ace, Kool Keith, Cage, Necro....etc. And if you wanna hear a battle emcee listen to somebody like Juice, Supernatural, Canibus, Chino XL. I mean I know for a fact if you like him you'll like most underground hip-hop. Shit give it a chance.

Asta!!

I don't know what the hell your talking about (do you even know).

Have you even heard Trent Reznor sing Hurt, he kicked some serious ass singing that song.

No Sir, I don't like it. I think rap went from being a real on-the-street thing to being what the RIAA believes is a cash cow. Well, rap turned into more of a culture, and gets a lot of airplay and bad press. Old-school rap like Sir Mix-a-lot is when it was good (to me) and now it seems every rapper wants to bust a cap in my ass now. What fun is that? Hell, even heavy metal bands run an occasional ballad.....

"I am a big man, yes i am
and i've got a big gun
got me a big old dick and i
i like to have fun
held against yer forehead
i'll make you suck it
maybe i'll put a hole in yer head you know just for the fuck of it."
-NIN, big man w/ a gun

Screamsinging bad rap.
I'm just saying that it is ironic (unexpected) that someone would choose question the value of hip hop, and then express their enjoyment of something that sometimes resembles very bad quality hip hop. Keep in mind, i'm not saying that NIN is hip hop, i'm just saying that sometimes Mr. Reznor "sings" in a way that is very rap-like
I know what i'm talking about, i'm sorry if i was unclear.

Oooh ooh! It only seems like every rapper wants to pop a cap in yer ass because you probably only listen to gansta rap. Watching MTV you probably believe that evey white male between the ages of 18-30 (besides eminim and justin "justified" timberlake) is on the verge of suicide. Quick, somebody get chevelle on a suicide watch, before they do something horrible!!!!

This is a pointless discussion. I enjoy such discussions, so I'll chime in now.

Rap, or more correctly Hip Hop, isn't going away, nor should it. To assume that MTV is Hip Hop or to categorize Hip Hop as Gangsta rap is ridiculous. You need to ask yourself whether you should be trashing something of which you knowingly know next to nothing about. And if you don't realize that Hip Hop is not solely or even primarily focused on Drugs/Hos/Guns, you are simply ignorant of your own ignorance.

Anyone that would even consider stating that The Roots (as a prime example) do not create music must certainly have absolutely no concept of what music really is.

Personally, I could never listen to Country music. I know next to nothing about the genre. However, I'm not foolish enough to believe that it is not music. I didn't grow up on a farm, but other people have - and in so doing, they have learned to enjoy Country music. More power to 'em.

For the record Downwardspiral's name does not refer to the NIN album of the, almost, same name.

Hey everyone!...... I am one of the biggest rap haters in the world! I let my kids and my wife know it (because they like it), but I also let my kids know that this is what this country is all about! We all have this thing called opinion, which we are all entitled to. This country is the greatest country in the world because of that. I love almost all music except rap, and when I'm in the car with my kids, I let them listen to their rap (as long as it's clean- they're 10 and 12), but then I tell them it's dad's turn and slip in some good old classic rock or r&b, or even country. They've even come to like some of it! I think everyone should just lighten up and get along!

Whoa whoa whoa one second there filtherton, who said I got my ame rom the Nine Inch Nails album hmm? If you want to get technical the album name is 'The Downward Spiral', you could at least ask first before you make assumptions as to where my name came from. And you bling, did I ever say that I categorized MTV gangsta rap as hip hop? No, I didn't. I never brought up the damn subject of hip hop in the first place. I said gangsta rap, not hip hop. You my friend need to read the other posts made in the thread before you start running your mouth about ignorance, bling. I also never said that hip hop focused on guns, drugs and ho's, I said gangsta rap did. Again i'll say you need to get the full story before you start running your mouth. Anything else you wanna add to your senseless babble?

Feh. All the teens of this world are led by MTV. Hell, Nickelodeon is owned by MTV, and when you get older you just start watching MTV.

Quite scary that a few channels can make such an impression on teens.

Such weak minds! ;)

I apologize for jumping to conclusions about your name. I'd be pissed too if somebody mistakenly thought is was named after a NIN album. Mil perdones!

Do you guys think it's valid to say that in a lot of ways mainstream rap annoys people to the point where they figure that all rap is bad, and brings them to the point where they even tend to discriminate and hate the people that listen to mainstream rap?

I guess what I'm trying to get at is, do you think this butchering of rap is in part causing discrimination against black people or people who say they listen to rap?

Yes it is. And most who say they hate rap are really saying they hate black people and the black culture (not necessarily those who posted). Discrimination is everywhere though you can't escape it you just gotta learn to live with it like myself and other minorities have to. And bad music is bad music but if it's making kids wanna drop the books and pick up a gun or go to a club rather than get a job, n everything imbetween then it's more than just bad music....it's practically a plague. And for that reason I can understand why people would hate it. It doesn't give them the right to stereotype or generalize or discriminate against an entire race and generation though. It's a sad subject and I'd love to stop it but fact of the matter is one finger can't pick up the trash as good as 2 hands. Eventually it might but it would take a long long time.

Asta!!

And just what are you implying there, rainheart? That I don't like black people? I wonder now what does discrimination have to do with my hatred for mainstream gangsta rap hmm? I don't have a problem with people who listen to rap or black people, let them listen to mainstream rap all they want, I just don't get how people can listen to gangsta rap. It sounds to me like you're saying that anyone who comes out and says they don't like rap is discriminating against black people, too. And if that is indeed what you're saying then you my friend are way off. I'll continue to say I don't like mainstream rap, but i'm not about to go out and get violent or discriminate towards people that do, I'm just simply voicing my opinion.

So exactly how many books are there on Lestat? Interview With A Vampire, Queen Of The Damned was one too right? What were all of them? I thought the movie for Queen Of The Damned kinda sucked but my friend said he liked it a lot but thats because he read the books and recognized all the characters that were in it. Shine some light my way

Asta!!

As far as Lestat goes, I know of Interview with the Vampire, The Vampire Lestat and Queen of the Damned, there are more in the Vampire Chronicles series, but I don't think they all deal with Lestat.

Cool now that thats out of the way....

Admitt it!! Just admitt it you hate black people!! You fuckin hate monger!! And you hate mexicans too! And gay people! And you also like to kick puppies!! The poor little fucking puppies you kick them!!! HARD!!

Asta!!
J/k by the way.

Hah, beautiful.

Yeah I have a way with oh look at the kitty......

Asta!!

I'd just like to applaud all the posters to this thread so far. This is one of the most interesting, frustrating, annoying, enlightening things I've read in a long time.

Oh, and rap reached a peak with the Beastie Boys third album. :)

No, no, no no no.

Not targeting you in particular but society in general. I have a friend who even tho is not an active racist, is somewhat of a passive racist, as in he hates rap and will have nothing to do with it, and he thinks people who are into all that bling bling ho's and shit are dumbasses, and of course he distances himself from those people. In a major way, the rap and r&b genre represents black people all over say the western world and perhaps a lot of europe as well. I'm just saying, that this may be how our society is being molded. I'm saying that if someone/many were smart enough, (and this is where I sound like a conspiracy theorist so brace yourself) they could engineer society towards that direction. Now we have Tilted Paranoia material, but to me that sounds fairly plausable.

I didn't say you hate black people or meant to, and don't worry I don't believe you hate black people or any of that jazz.

I'm sort of trying to see how our society gets molded and why we have certain general opinions, etc.

Ahhhh I see, well, I honestly don't know how society gets molded, that is one of the unsolved mysteries of the world, I guess, hell I dunno.

So many different characteristcis for my thread there, vermin, that's a good thing, I think. . .

If ya wanna know how society gets molded just look at all the "ists" for a start. Femnists, Activists, Racists, Shovanists, Sexists, idealists etc. have all molded the economy in one way shape or form and this still continues over the many years. If you've ever had an opinion about an issue/race/person/etc...multiply that by about a thousand or more and you can clearly see how things get molded around here.

Asta!!

Three pages in my thread? Never thought it would make it past one.

Yeah thats probably kinda my fault.

Asta!!

Nah, my fault for getting all the controversy started here, but getting a big debate going is fun I think, always good to hear other opinions and compare them to your own and things like that.

Downwardspiral..If you want to hear a GOOD HipHop Track.

Download
"Spartibus" or "Poet Laureate II" By Canibus

I just picked up Canibus's New CD Rip The Jacker...The whole CD is Good but those 2 songs that I listed are Amazing.

Those are just 2 of My personal Fav's...If you do download One or the both of them...It's ok if you don't like it...But Listen to what he's saying, You won't be able to deny that his Ryhmes are Simply....Amazing

If I don't like it how could it be amazing to me?

You don't have to like something to be amazed by what it took to create it. I don't like eminem, but i still think he is pretty fucking amazing. I don't like figure skating, but i think it is amazing that someone could actually do shit like that, because i know i certainly couldn't.

I don't consider Eminem to be as amazing as most but I think he has written some really great stuff. Canibus's lyrics are very intricately written and I think anyone who is fond of good writting should give the man props cause he really has written some genious material. One of his best works being this song.


Artist: Canibus
Album: Can-I-Bus
Song: Channel Zero
Typed by: Osirus260@aol.com, dj.flash@pobox.com

[Canibus]
Approximately fifty years ago
under the direction of President Harry Truman
and in the interest of national security
A group of twelve top military scientific personnel were established
This group's primary objective
was to desensitize us to the truth
And to suppress the material evidence that our planet is being visited
by a group of extraterrestrial biological entities called the grays

Tune in to channel zero (8X)

[Canibus]
Yo, sometimes the road to the truth is, so elusive it's confusin
And reality becomes illusion
If I showed the masses where we was at or where we was goin
I'd shatter the social balance of the world as we know it
I'm talkin bout the grand deception, of 1947
When our souls were sold to the heavens
for technologically advanced weapons
Crystal enhanced, brain implants, and mind control methods
MJ-12 is not majestic
And the focal point of our problems on this planet are not domestic
You can accept it or be stupid and be a skeptic
and fail to recognize the secret society's deathwish
Ninety-seven percent of our Presidents were Masons
Responsible for launderin trillions of dollars from the nation
for the construction of underground military installations
Abductions and cattle mutilations
Experiments on human patients
can take place in several subterranean bases
A hundred and fifty stories below a basement
With knowledge of genetic information, you need to fear science not Satan
Cause through the manipulation of certain biological agents
they create strange creations
Top secret special operations
Low frequency sounds and lasers, people like Carl Sagan
that didn't believe in the Drake equation
were tryin to keep Western civilization on the need-to-know basis
Well you need to know that this is a game
and we're bein betrayed and played in the worst way

Tune in to channel zero (8X)

[Canibus]
Yo, the holy script from Genesis 1-26
says, "Let us make man in our image under our likeness"
First of all who's THEY? You see if God
was truly a single entity that's not what he would say
We as the Elohim, Gods and Goddesses
posess a marvelously monsterous subconscious
Lifeforms that speak, in very high pitched sounds and squeaks
Short staccato clicks and beeps
A highly advanced form of speech
Even though to us it seems like they only chatterin they teeth
They used to swim deep in the oceans beneath
Til they fins transformed into limbs and they started to creep
Then they evolved into mammals with feet
And walked right from the shorelines onto the beach
They used gravity, cause it's actually the only force around
that could slow time and the speed of light down
The energy grid network, opened the gateway from Earth
to any point in the universe
Livin organisms and various, geomagnetic gravitational, anomaly areas
Space expedition teams in the lunar regions
reported seein, decapyramids and tetrahedrons
Liquid filled shoes, is what they used
to walk across the moon without leavin a clue
of where they been for the past twenty-three billion years
Before life on the surface even appeared
I hope you become aware what I'm spittin in your ear
was intended to stimulate your left-brain's hemisphere
I know it sounds weird, all these motherfuckin answers
and questions to the grand deception

Tune in to channel zero (16X)

I'd like to see some a you's guys write something that good ;)

Asta!!

This is Just 1 verse from a song off Canibus's new Album...

Im convinced now that more then truth is at stake
Where people create language that pretends to communicate
Euphamisms are misundertood as mistakes
but its a bi-product of the ghetto music we make
From an extroverted point of view I think its to late
Hip Hop has never been the same since '88
Since it became a lucrative profession as a misconception
in the movement in any direction as progression
Even though of the potency of it lessens
big money industries writing checks to suppress the question
And nobody gives a fuck no more, no one goes to the book store
ever since the influence of Moore's Law
But I stay in the lab, like Neosporin
The Son of God, Edward Lawrence and Leo Salade
Lyrically I take rap music and turn the knob
to the right full throttle and added panache
Why would I argue with my own conscience over the truth?
thats like me telling myself dont tell me what to do
Dialysies and analysies of battle emcees
sometimes I say things I myself cant believe
My lyrical is so skillfully eliptical
I can understand how it makes you miserable
You wonder why I never let you play your beats for me
or why I keep my studio shrouded in secrecy
You wonder whats my infatuation with Alicia Keyes
"Canibus why dont you speak to me?"
Yo, I meant it when I said no one can shine on a song that features me
thats why I said it so vehemently
You need to place the hate with respect
I'm probably the best yet, Poet Laureate!!!

Okay, i might not be a big fan of rap but i'll give it up to Canibus. Those were some pretty awesome lyrics.

I'm guessing that took a lot of skills.

I know this is off the topic but who else thinks it was ridiculous that the RIAA sued a 12 year old girl because she had music downloaded on her computer?

They sued a 12 year old girl, that's fucking hilarious and yes it's also ridiculous.

But to get back on subject, come on DownwardSpiral, you've got to admit those lyrics were pretty good.