telekinetic

If you have no familiarity with Lady Gaga past being the latest pop tart flavor-of-the-month Britney Aguilera knockoff with overproduced over-engineered, and overplayed throbbing-beat, dance-mix, chart-toppers, allow me to present a slightly different perspective:



And to demonstrate that this gal is still under the blond wig:





Ok, so she can sing without Autotune. That doesn't mean there's a brain behind the voice, right? She could still be the pop culture manufactured Mike's Hard Lemonade to more serious musicians hearty Belgian Ale. Is there substance as well as talent?


From Lady Gaga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which brings us to a discussion. Do you consider putting on a trashy glam fashion hypersexed persona and catering to popular music aesthetics to be 'selling out'? If so, is "selling out" in that way even a bad thing? Do you think it's an act? To clarify, how much of what she does and "is" do you think is calculated for shock value, news headlines, and marketability?

Here's my take, feel free to diverge. I am probably over thinking things, but I would like to think she is effectively trolling all her critics by doing what she knows will get her money and fame, and then over the next few years/albums, she'll slowly reintegrate her more serious work into her pop albums...exhibit "A" in this belief is the above-proven existence (and performance) of 'serious' acoustic cuts of her two biggest pop-hits thus far. In my opinion, who cares if she dresses like a scifi hooker? More power to her!


Oh, finally, just for fun, and to prove I'm not the only one overthinking her, here is an interesting article outlining the various Illuminati symbolisms surrounding her:

Lady Gaga, The Illuminati Puppet | The Vigilant Citizen

__________________
twisted no more

PonyPotato

Apparently, Megan Fox probably has something similar going on - a manufactured, measured persona and very deliberately chosen interactions with the media.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/ma...n%20fox&st=cse

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

wooÐs

I have no idea who this person is or what kind of music she's responsible for, solely based on her ridiculous stage name. I'm guessing her audience consists of mainly 14 year old girls?

Bill O'Rights

Whew! I thought it was just me. I'd never heard of her beore I saw her on the American Music Awards last Sunday.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

wooÐs

I learned about some 15 year old boy from TMZ the other night. He even sounds like a little boy singing. Can't remember his name but I will firmly state, that New Kids On The Block, were much hotter than this dude way back when.

LordEden

Are we talking a David Bowie type of act in a Ziggy Stardust kinda of way?

In the indie/underground world, being on the radio is "selling out", so in that sense she has sold out by just making money.

I would say no, a persona is just that. Granted I hate her music, but with artists these days, having a stick like this will help sell music. If you are smart about it (IE don't go overboard with spending MC Hammer style) you can use the money you make off your crap music under a different name to fund your "real" music.

If I was going to try to make it in the music world, that's what I would do. Make a stage name, make some crap pop music, sling the shit like candy and make it so over the top that people are talking about it all the time. Collect my checks, invest wisely and then open up my own studio to get unknown artists out there on the scene. Make more money being a producer, then when I'm comfortable with the ins & outs of the industry, come out with an album of my own under my own terms.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

telekinetic

Good observation, PP. I really wonder how much of the more controversial celebrities interactions with the media are calculated for maximum impact. I have gone down this mental path with Paris Hilton also, but not to the researched extent I have with Lady Gaga.

---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

I think this is exactly what a lot of the more 'hated' acts are doing.

__________________
twisted no more

GreyWolf

There are sharp minds out there in the music world... I don't know if she's one of them. Anyone who says: "I can make money by doing something ridiculous or by being sufficiently outrageous" is welcome to do so in my estimation, assuming they aren't hurting anyone. Some of the longest-lived musical/entertainment people have re-invented themselves over and over. Maybe Lady Gaga is just that sort of a person. Personally, I've enjoyed both some of her music, and that of another entertainer who causes me a similar feeling of ambivalence, Pink. Some of their music is enjoyable, but most seems to be techno-crap.

On the other hand, while I can't say I'd ever go watch a Lady Gaga concert, or buy one of her albums, she's making more money than I ever will with her antics, so I'm not going to say she doesn't have something going for her.

And then there is one of my favourite artists, Cher, whose longevity is incredible. I couldn't believe hearing her techno version of some of her hits. But my kids love them.

__________________
The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.

Shauk

It's not techno, don't care

FuglyStick

She is in on it, and sells herself as the tongue in cheek acknowledgement of the plasticity of the music industry and celebrity. I still can't stand her, 'cause I don't buy it.

__________________
AZIZ! LIGHT!

Charlatan

The more I read about her and the more I see of things like the first video, I am convinced she very clearly knows what she is doing. I don't think it's important to know whether she is "in on it" or "just knows what works". It's a very fine line to distinguish between the two and the end result is the same.

It's interesting to draw a comparison to Ziggy Stardust. If you were to compare these two, I'd say Lady Gaga is playing a much deeper game than Bowie. Bowie acknowledged the act and the character. So far, she has not.

The other interesting thing to note is that, from what I can see she is manufacturing herself rather than some record label or svengali. And regardless of intent to "pull the wool" or "troll the critics", that makes all the difference.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

pan6467

That's very similar to what Shock G did with Digital Underground and it is a very wise and business minded way to go about things.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Starkizzer

Tele, I just saw her on Leno the other night and she surprised me. Wasn't the dumb blond pop star I expected. She was quirky, a little on the quiet side and seemed to have at least half a brain in her head.

I'm glad you posted these videos, shows a very different side to her music, its refreshing.

__________________
Frivolity, at the edge of a Moral Swamp, hears Hymn-Singing in the Distance and dons the Galoshes of Remorse. ~Edward Gorey

Shauk

and this is why i want nothing to do with the established music scenes.

Daniel_

She's got a skill, and by putting on a spangly frock people pay her a very large sum of money to perform.

I'd do it in a shot.

Why is it that it is only in the arts that doing well and being paid is seen as "selling out"? If I was offered an office job that I enjoyed and was good at for double my current salary, everyone would call me insane for turning it down.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Starkizzer

True Daniel.

People in the entertainment industry do what they have to to stay on top. And playing to what the mass public wants to see is doing just that. Isn't that kind of why they do it? For the public? Entertainers are out to entertain as large of an audience as they can. Granted some are not so main stream but there are all types of audiences out there so we need performers of all types.

__________________
Frivolity, at the edge of a Moral Swamp, hears Hymn-Singing in the Distance and dons the Galoshes of Remorse. ~Edward Gorey

LordEden

Nothing again Shauk, (I like some of the stuff you post) but that's the reason you will hear the term "sellout" alot more these days. It's under the old saying, "It's about the MUSIC, not making money". You can't be on TV, the Radio, or on a record label (I've even heard people say some of the Indie labels are corporate greed machines) then you have let yourself be fucked by the Pop Greed Machine.

Me? I like making money and not wondering if the bar I'm playing at is going to pay me. I like not wondering if I'm going eat today or if I have enough money to replace any supplies needed for to continue doing what I love. Seems to me that the music industry is the only place where when you finally "make it", your peers boo you. I don't see a group of angry scientists with bad haircuts throwing rotten fruit at a grad student who got a grant with a major university/gov/corporation. Also, as usual, I could be wrong.

This could also be why I'm not a musician. That and I couldn't carry a tune in a ten-gallon bucket.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

pan6467

I forget what rocker said it ( I want to say it was Rod Stewart in the early 90's), "What's a sell out? Someone selling the art they create? To me that's not a sell out that's someone successful. There are many "noble" artists living in cardboard boxes who would write "Yummy Yummy" if it meant they could have a swimming pool. We're artists, our very existence is to sell our art. The more successful you become, the more you are accused of "selling out"."

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Fotzlid

Egotism and jealousy.

I happen to like her CD. She reminds me a bit of Kylie Minogue with this disc.

I knew her name but not much else about her before buying the CD, I had read an article about her that called her the "new Madonna" and that piqued my interest enough to give her music a listen. I thought the songs were catchy but wasn't sure how they came up with the Madonna comparison till I saw the clip of her playing the piano at NYU.
I don't know, nor care, who's idea it was for this stage persona but I will be watching for her next couple of CD's as I am curious if she is a one trick pony or if there is more to her than this current album shows.

Derwood

There is no selling out, just buying in.

fresnelly

Eh, it's been done...

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

wooÐs

zomg that's so messed up. I just scanned over the title while checking threads this morning, started thinking of KISS and here they be.

I had a psychotic vision.

edit - erm... afternoon.

roachboy

well, given that this is a marketing approach, there's really not much of a question about whether she knows or not, is there?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Bill O'Rights

Agreed. So long as you are playing for coffee shops and dive bars you can retain the credibility derived from struggling, just like the rest of your Ramen noodle eating bretheren.

I live in the Benson area of Omaha. Benson is a very bohemian neighborhood, and is polluted with said coffee shops and dive bars. But, at the end of the main drag, on Maple street, is the offices of Saddlecreek Records, a major indie lablel. Tell me that any of the acts, playing in these joints, aren't hoping to be the next Bright Eyes, Cursive or The Faint. So, is Conor Oberst, who used to play in the Benson area all of the time, also a "sellout"? By definition...yes. Why? Because you have heard of him. Otherwise, he'd still just be that kid that plays with those guys down on Maple street.

And, with no capitalization, whatsoever, roachboy has summed up the entire thread and tied a bow around it. Because, in the end, what is all of it if not just a marketing approach? For what it's worth, I really liked her in that first video that telekinetic put up. Much more to my style and taste.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

mrklixx

Two words : Cyndi Lauper.

__________________
This post is content. If you don't like it then you are not content. Or perhaps just incontinent.

This is not a link - Do not click here

I hate animated avatars.

fresnelly

How could I forget?

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

Poppinjay

Interesting, Lady Gaga reminds me exactly of Pink. Pink started out with urban sounding party jams under the careful direction of LA Reid. Once she got enough success to "push the envelope", she went much more in a punky pop direction. But like Lady Gaga, she's stuck with a persona instead of completely re-becoming Alicia Moore.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Baraka_Guru

I think she's in on it.

And...I think I'm in on her. I don't know why, but she's a pop star I can tolerate and maybe even enjoy a little bit. I think it's because she acknowledges the facade and it's overtly a facade. The Britneys and the Christinas are trying to be Britney and Christina. But Lady Gaga is Lady Gaga, but there is still what's-her-name? underneath.

Oh, and these guys are definitely in on the joke:

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

percy

Not my thing but she is not bad. Pulls alot of vocal cliches and is pitchy at times, somewhat slightly loses the key but is good enough to find it back quickly.(not to be confused with vocal glissandos for those in the know) Better than most in todays music industry machine of mediocrity but by no means ready to put on a masters class as of yet. 7.5/10

amonkie

Not all artists make good business decisions, and vice versa.

Lady Gaga appears to me to be someone who can be successful both as a businesswoman and as an artist, on her own terms. It will be interesting to see where she is in 5 years, when the initial Gaga novelty over her presence has worn off.

__________________
Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

Zeraph

Haha, awesome vid BG.

I think she's at least partially in on it. By that I mean I think it started out that way; her pretending to be "popy" to sell records and eventually support her real art. But now I think it may have evolved as part of her personality. I'm not sure you can *be* something like that so well without it really being some part of yourself. To become what she has so thoroughly she must have had to let some part of herself run vapid.

Xerxys

pan6467

If I could do pics... but I can't so I'll just add to your list

ALICE COOPER

MARILYN MANSON

FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD

WHAM

OINGO BOINGO

WHEEZER

DAVID BOWIE

THE MONKEES

part of being in the music business (especially rock/pop) is to develop your own niche and look then market it as much as the music (moreso if the music sucks).

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Xerxys

OK, I am a big fan of techno, house, Drum n' Bass music and I am currently listening to the second installment of the The Fame - The Fame Monster and IT ROCKS!! She's totally emulating some of Madonna's work. Lady Gaga Hate I chalk it up to "ohhh radio, I will get ebola" disease.

Take her video of Bad Romance for example ... that is pure art and very creative. Sure she bombed in the failed paparazzi attempt with the dead corpses but this video is GOOD! Her lyrics may be cheap when she goes "boys boys boys, we like boys in ba'ars ..." but she has executed her style with entertainment. Whoever thinks Lady Gaga is uninteresting needs to give her a second listening ...