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Old 06-09-2003, 02:19 AM   #1 (permalink)
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rock stars

I went and saw Poison in concert last week, and realized something that I think is odd. I also think it reflects a bit on todays music compared to yesterdays. (ie. today's music, whether you like it or not, isn't all that difficult while older music seems to be much harder, although that's an overgeneralization).

Anyways, have you noticed how the new bands of the last few years are known only as their band? They're full of people who's talents don't seem very impressive or make them stand out. But older bands, especially from the 80's, were full of stars. In their heyday, pretty much everybody knew most of if not all the members of Motley Crew, and every other band had at least 2 people who stood out. Poison had CC Deville and Bret Michaels, Bon Jovi had Johnny along with Richie Sambora, Van Halen, etc...
Everybody knows flea and many know john fuschante(sp?) and anthony kleidus(sp?). Maybe it's more a matter of todays bands lacking much personality and star quality that the others had, rather than a lack of talent. I don't know. Any ideas?
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Old 06-09-2003, 05:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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There's a perfect explanation for this: all the popular music out there right now is based around solo artists, and the popular music that is actually groups of people playing is based around one member, usually the lead singer. As far as knowing the names of members of the groups I like, I can rattle off the name of every member, drummers, the whole deal, of just about all of my favorite bands. I think that if you're really a die-hard fan of a band, then it's almost a kind of duty to you to know everyone who's in the band... I don't know, though. Maybe it's just me.
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Old 06-09-2003, 05:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Well, I"m not sure if the way I put my question made any real sense. Just kind of a random thought I had had. Obviously, if you're a big fan of a band, you should know some of the members names. But, and maybe this is more because of hindsight, bands from the past seemed to get notoriety as a band and people, not necessarily just big fans, knew who the people in the bands were because they were so good or such amazing personalities.
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Old 06-09-2003, 06:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I see your point. Members of bands like Coldplay, Queens of the Stone Age and Sum 41 aren't household names.

Conversely, we all know the names of people in Foo Fighters, Limp Bizkit and Metallica, who are equally popular.
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Old 06-09-2003, 12:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I see your point and agree somewhat with the apparent lack of talent,but I'm not sure if that's the case or if bands are just writing generic,formulaic songs in the mainstream just to make a buck.

I don't want to come across as something special,and I do realize that music isn't a competition for who can play the fastest,but I have to say,being a schooled musician,the knowledge I have contributes to and accentuates my talent and creativity.I listen to today's rockstars and am a bit disappointed since I think many are to lazy to practise and to push themselves as far as they can go. But then again,there are Hollywood parties to pose at.

It is pretty funny though how I can turn on the radio and within seconds can be playing along with a song I've never heard before.Part of that is my training,but the other part is because today's music is so predictable,and dare I say,lacking in anything complicated or at least creative to say the least.

If I put out a CD,will you buy it or will you burn it?
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Old 06-09-2003, 03:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derwood
I see your point. Members of bands like Coldplay, Queens of the Stone Age and Sum 41 aren't household names.

Conversely, we all know the names of people in Foo Fighters, Limp Bizkit and Metallica, who are equally popular.
I feel like I should mention that Dave Grohl is in both QOTSA and Foo Fighters. QOTSA is also sort of a revolving door group, their lineup changes from album to album based on who's looking for a side project or what have you.

Like KWSN said, most bands nowadays are just built around the lead singer (for example does Avril Lavigne's band even have a name?). And the vast majority of bands that are on the radio today will probably be forgotten by this time next year. It takes time for a band to build a real fan base.

And Gibber, if you made an album, I'd probably download a few tracks and make my decision from there, but I do buy albums when I like what I hear, especially from small time artists on independent labels who need and deserve my money more than generic copycat bands on big labels who want 18$ for a cd that features the hit single and 10 shitty songs.
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Old 06-09-2003, 03:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Avril Lavigne's band doesn't have a name, but neither does Alanis Morisette's, Jewel's, Madonna's, Cher's, Whitney Houston's....so what's your point? Just about every "solo" artist has a backup band (except maybe Tori Amos)
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Old 06-09-2003, 06:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Were Dylan's bands (other than "The Band") well known? Can you tell me the members of Crazy Horse without looking at Neil Young liner notes?

Music has always had a dependence on great individual artists. When you have more than one or two recognizably talented band members you have Beatles', Whos, and Nirvanas. But most music is the work of individuals.

gibber, I'd recommend you fire the radio. It'll only make you look down on today's music.
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Old 06-10-2003, 05:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Historically speaking, it's a cyclical phenomenon. It comes and goes.

In the 50's, everybody could name the rock and R&B frontmen, but nobody could name the backup musicians (who was Little Richard's drummer, for example?). It was all about the "star." When The Beatles broke through in 1963, it was all about the "act." Suddenly, everybody knew who the drummer was in EVERY band, which was similar to the situation with swing bands in the 40's.

It'll go back that way soon.
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Old 06-10-2003, 06:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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warrrreag is bang on.Music is cyclical but it seems to be spinning out of control. I think of all the great tunes by great bands and honesty, I just don't hear it coming out anymore by new bands.And this has been going on for sometime now.

Image was always important but seemed at least to me, to be secondary to the music.I could name off 20 bands right now that are popular and half of them I have never heard more than one song from. How does a band get so popular by having one song?How does this happen.Hype? Internet? Alot of posing and not much playing?

That's for your recommendation Tom Thumb but I have to keep listening,since many of my students rely on me as a teacher to stay informed as to what's going on.Some of today's music I enjoy,but I just think that it has become acceptable for many bands to become complacent and not challenge themselves. Can you imagine if the Beatles,Zep,Queen,Steely Dan,the Eagles etc,..rested on their laurels instead of pushing the envelope.
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Old 06-10-2003, 07:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by gibber71
Can you imagine if the Beatles,Zep,Queen,Steely Dan,the Eagles etc,..rested on their laurels instead of pushing the envelope.
that's actually a really scary thought. not even just for the fact that they wouldn't have made the great music that they did, but think of everyone that they influenced and how they affected others music. it would definatly be tragic if that were the case. although, if it were, i don't think we'd really realize it, since we don't miss what's never been.
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Old 06-10-2003, 09:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by gibber71
warrrreag is bang on.

Can you imagine if the Beatles,Zep,Queen,Steely Dan,the Eagles etc,..rested on their laurels instead of pushing the envelope.
Thanks for the kudo, gibber. One thing that was specific to all the bands you name (and the era in which they recorded) is that every successful band had to be DIFFERENT from all the others. The market demanded diversity in the late 60's and early 70's. In that time frame, if you sounded like anybody else, you couldn't get a contract from anybody. Today, that trend has reversed.

I believe strongly that diversity will come back.
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Old 06-10-2003, 03:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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So Mael, what did you think of Poison then? I saw them last year with a friend of mine and I thought they were great. They were actually her favorite band when she was in grade school and junior high.
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Old 06-10-2003, 03:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Poison was unbelievable. Just amazing. Second best show I've been to, I think. Vince Neal was the second opener and rocked too. Skid Row was a bit of a disappointment though.
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Old 06-11-2003, 02:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ha-ha! Skid Row? Too bad you had to sit through that. I thought Poison was amazing too, so amazing I went out and bought their album that came out last year. I nefver realized CC Deville was such a good guitar player until I saw the solo's he did live.
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Old 06-11-2003, 03:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think I go along the same lines as KWSN does. I tend to remember the names of the bands I really like more than just the lead singer or the member that stands out the most.

Music is the tie that binds and it's also an ever changing creature that I have learned to embrace with open arms. I think it's great when bands don't purposely try to stand out farther than anyone else, or appear to be flashier. It usually ends up with them failing at some point due to them lacking the talent or not being able to cope with celebrity.
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I think it is called the 'pyramid' approach. I think, I'm not sure. Anyway, the principle is: consumer is stupid and not very interested. So marketing communication is kept simple. One face, one name, one voice. The other members of the band will become interesting to the public if the band breaks big.

If the singer is not too ugly, he or she will take the paper doll's role. If someone other than the singer is clearly the 'idol' ín the group, an exeption might be made.

Good manners and fair play is for the musicians and other idealists. When booking interviews, it is not the band the media is booking, but the paper-doll. Suggest that the drummer and the songwriter do the TV-show, when the singer is busy, the answer is: WHO? No-body is interested!!!

Does it hurt? Yep. Is it fair? Nope. Is it profitable? ..MMMM...

ok. I feel better now. >]
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