JohnS72

Recently, I've been looking at getting a Kawasaki 250 Ninja just for fun and things- For all you motorcycle riders out there, what justifies the dangers of riding around? Or is it just another one of those paranoid things? What kind of safety equipment would you recommend? Should I get the whole full leather outfit or will a helmet, jeans and a leather jacket be enough protection? Let's hear it.

bodypainter

I think it's worth it if you don't engage in the kind of riding that inevitably means you'll crash eventually. Sadly, a Ninja probably means "that kind" of riding.

Now, this is a 46 year old perspective. Note that I felt much differently 25 years ago. I survived. I'm not big on safety gear but I ride very safely. If I was squirting around corners and riding wheelies, I'd have full leathers & the works.

Ashton

Quiggles

250 ninja is a waste of time. if you're gonna fall , make sure it'
s a 600 at least, and fall of course , everyo ne falls atleast twice , and if you haven't yet then you're not having fun. talk to me later when you've gotten on a R6 err a Gixxer.

www.eurobikes.com

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nate_dawg

if you're afraid to do it then you probably shouldn't
take a msf course and you'll know if it's for you or not

JohnS72

Could you elaborate on why falling with a 600 would be safer or better? Thanks

cj2112

If you're not prepared to go down, don't ride. It's really that simple. I don't care how safe of a rider you think you are, there are morons on the road that will not look for you, and one of them is more than likely going to hit you.

reverendjay

Nate is absolutely right. Every state should have a Motorcycle Safety Course available, I just took the one in MD in April. They'll give you an excellent introduction into the world of motorcycling, and teach you how to be the safest rider possible.

Personal safety is something that every rider has to take into consideration, and it's something you have to think about every time you get on the bike. I've had my bike for 5 years now, but I didn't ride for a year and a half after one of my 'bike buddies' died in a single vehicle accident. It's dangerous yes, but that's part of the excitement.

If you do things correctly, you can effectively minimize the risks involved and have many wonderful riding experiences. To answer your questions best:

1. The 250 Ninja is probably not the best 'first bike' out there. You're getting an underpowered engine with about 200lbs of fairing to go with it. That style bike really is designed to have a larger, higher revving engine in it. You would do equally well with any of the 500-600cc class bikes out there. In fact, one of the most highly recommended 'first bikes' out there is the Suzuki SV650. It's light, sporty, and a heck of a lot of fun to ride.
2. There's a minimum amount of gear that you want to have. The list includes a good DOT or SNELL approved Helmet (preferrably full faced), Sturdy over the ankle style boots (preferrably leather), Pants, Gloves, and some kind of Jacket.

Two excellent Gear Websites are www.helmetharbor.com and www.newenough.com. I just recently ordered a helmet from Helmet Harbor, and they've been absolutely pleasant to work with.

In closing, both your bike and your gear should match the kind of riding you want to do. If all you want to do is ride through country and mountain roads on a reasonably safe bike, go with the 250, a good helmet, leathers and jeans. If you want performance, speed, twisties, and exhilaration, go with a full leather suit, kevlar padding, race gloves and boots. (note: you probably won't be able to go fast enough on the 250 to warrant all of that gear).

Final thought... When people tell you that you will go down, they aren't kidding. If you become serious about riding the bike, and you begin riding regularly, you will at some point drop the bike. The trick to it is keeping the rest of your environment safe enough that neither you or the bike get permanently damaged.

Good Luck, and welcome to the pack.

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spootyguy

A 250 Ninja is a great first bike; I've ridden one and its a very capable learner machine. Of course, in the UK and being under 21 means i'm on a restricted licence at the moment; I can't ride anything abover 33bhp anyway on the roads.
Reverendjay, a Ninja 250 can do a ton easily so there is still no such thing as too much protection even on a small capacity bike.
If you are riding just for fun you should probably get some protective gear. Jeans are no good for protection, they wear through just marginally slower than skin... Get kevlar lined ones from Draggin Jeans. I'm not saying don't wear jeans, just don't kid yourself that they'll protect you. Definitely buy boots and hard knuckled gloves. If a car knocks you over gloves with carbon knucks save your hands and give you the bonus of being able to knock off the arsole's wing mirror as well.
Get some crash bobbins or magic mushrooms if you have a faired bike, it'll save hundreds on plastic costs when you do drop it.

Rider attitude is very important as you'll find out after you have your first off or the first time you nearly crash, don't ride everywhere thinking about where you are going, concentrate on what is happening now and what could happen such as developing hazards and potentially dangerous situations that may arise.
If you do buy a bike I wish you happy and safe riding, same goes to all other bikers out there...

GSRIDER

Laugh laugh laugh if you will but I recommend reading the idiots guide to motorcycles.

The book will help you get into a proper state of my mind for not only making the right kind of purchase but also to mentally prepare you to ride.

And most definitly take the Motorcycle Saftey course. It'll run you near $200. But you spend 2 solid days on a bike learning the basics. Plus (in my state at least) the course is the equivilent to the licence test, so when you're done, you take your slip to the DMV and they'll stamp an M on you DL. You also get insurance breaks and a couple other perks.

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Cynthetiq

I used to have a Ninja 250 myself... great bike...easy to work on and still was very peppy. The first day I had it I took it to about a 120 or so... and I looked down on the ground and thought it would really suck if I went down on that.. I never sped after that.

I was hit on Rt 4 in NJ after riding for 80miles without incident. I never rode after that.

I like riding.. after I got hit in NJ my grandfather made me promise to not ever ride during the last years he's on the planet. My wife is taking that opinion to... so I said I need to have a roadster.

The difference between a car and a motorcycle.. is that a motorcyclist experiences the road and it's surroundings... the car observses it.

recently a friend was hit on his Fatboy... he was going straight and someone took a left turn in front of him. He's still going to ride.

It's not about how crazy you are... but moreso the other drivers on the road.

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reverendjay

I submit to those people with actual experience on a Ninja 250, for I have never ridden one myself. My own personal leanings have always tended towards cruisers. Granted, there are a lot of new 'naked' bikes now out that greatly appeal to me as well.

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billege

I've got the full face, the armored leather coat, gloves, etc. The most important single item of saftey gear I have is my attitude.

I ride a fast bike, but I choose when and how to apply that speed.

My eyes are looking all over the damn road. People in vehicles can't drive for shit, and it's more dangerous when they can squash you.

I read lots on how to ride safer, and I actually APPLY what I learn.

If you want to, you can take a lot of risk out of bike riding. However, you must accept the risk level that is inherent, and make yourself comfortable with it.

Ride safe.

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Cynthetiq

true.. there are two types of motorcycle riders... ones that have fallen and those that are going to fall.

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oane

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hrdwareguy

When it comes down to it, buy the bike that you feel the most comfortable with. If you think you would prefer a 250 over a 600 right now, go with it, you can always upgrade later. It would suck if you bought the 600 and got throttle happy with it before you were ready.

I recently sold my bike to pay other bills. I had a cruser stile 800cc bike. Had a full face helmet (probably won't do that again), leather jacket, boots, gloves and chaps. Unfortunately I usually only wore the leathers when it was cold out though. Wore the helmet about 99.5% of the time.

As far as justifying the dangers, well some people will tell you it's about freedom and the exhileration of the road beneath you. To begin with it is, but it also becomes the wind whipping around you, the smells you wouldn't normally have in a car, things like that.

As others have said, take a motorcycle safety course if you can. The biggest advice I can give is watch out for everyone else on the road because they aren't going to watch out for you. I can't count the number of times I've almost been runn off the road because someone didn't look, or didn't see me in their mirrors before cutting me off.

Good luck and happy crusing.

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cheezhead

I call em Murdercyle's.People just take target practice at ya with their cars, not for me!

DEI37

I've been toying with the idea of a bike...haven't done any serious looking, but so far, I like the Yamaha V-Star Classic 650. I know it's not the best thing out there, but for the money, and having a 2-up bike...it looks nice. I'll look at this Suzuki SV650, though.

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merkerguitars

Alot of people bitch at me saying that motorcycles are dangerous and all that shit but I tell them everyday I risk my life just stepping outside and i will not give up riding cause I love it. I wear full gear no matter what ie. gloves helmet, leather jacket and steel toe boots. The reason why I wear it is cause it's the only thing between me and the road.

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oane

Ultimately, make the desicion yourself. Accidents happen, sometimes even when you aren't at fault. I have myself suffered leg injury, had to be in bed, and that made me realize I couldn't live with a handicap. So, I still ride, but less often and cautiously.

Make your decision, so you won't have to blame someone else if "shit happens". BTW, 250cc is a very smart choice for a beginner bike. Wear good gear, and ride at a pace that you are confortable with. Also, try track days. They are fun and safer.

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Spyder_Venom

Yes

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bodypainter

I've been riding since '74, owned bikes constantly since '81, and have never been down while moving more than a couple miles per hour. It doesn't have to happen.

Tron121

I just bought my brand new 2003 R6 and it’s great. Could a beginner ride it with no experience? Yes, should they I say hell no. Hells no in fact. This bike is a rocket, it will get you in more trouble faster then you can blink. I've been riding dirt bikes since I was 13, I’m 22 now but this is my first street bike. My buddy has a Ninja 250 and it’s a kitten compared to my R6. Its lots lighter has like 1/4 the power and the riding position is far less "boy racer” witch means you will be able to ride it farther without having too see a chiropractor afterwards I would highly recommend a used Ninja 250 for a beginner. You will get heckled however as it is quite the pansy bike, but just tell them you are learning and most people will respect that. Once you out grow it in a year or so. Buy a used 600 or 650. You can pick up a used 250 for around 1500 to 2000.

Basically if you have a 80-100 hp bike for you first motorcycle experience then you are more then likely going to end up hurt, riding on the road is a lot of fun but I tell my friends that LEARNING on the road is a death sentence if you are not extremely careful.(I live in Sonoma County, CA Traffic blows ass here)

Come to a light and start fumbling your controls or dump in a intersection and you are going to become a hood ornament for a Lincoln Navigator real quick.

ducati999

FIRST AND FOREMOST TAKE A SAFETY CLASS!!!!! That said, its the best investment you can make, they train you alot in what to do and what NOT to do in an emergency situation, has helped me out already numerous times! For a starter bike I recommend a 500 ninja, why you ask? Because it has enough power to be fun and go up to 120 yet its not too much where you are scared, the sv I think is an okay choice, it has alot of torque and can lift the front end quite easy say if you accidently pop the cluch or accelerate way too hard, hell my friends bandit 600 does that. As for safety equipment, get something with Armor for sure, I have a Joe Rocket Phoenix jacket, its a ballistic mesh jacket that I wear out here (california) due to the hot weahter, it has armor all over and double armor over the spine, its a great jacket and only runs about 80 bucks, I always wear boots, gloves, jacket, and jeans. Motorcycle arent dangerous if you know what you are doing and never assume what anyone else is going to do. ALWAYS RIDE WITHIN YOUR COMFORT and ALWAYS RIDE LIKE YOU ARE A GHOST TO EVERYONE ELSE! BUt again i Highly recommend an ex500, its what I have and its been a blast to learn on and ride! And get something used, its 99% likely you will drop it and Plastic aint cheap!

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Only you can make the decision. I've been part of a local rider forum for about 2 years now and have watched maybe 5+ people die and all the sorrow that follows. But people move on, and sooner or later you will be forgotten more and more. It's sad, but its life. Enjoy it while you have it, and if that means riding a bike, then go for it! I just got my liscence but am yet to ride on the streets.

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nash

My friend is in med school, and he helped out at a clinic for the homeless giving out free shots and vaccinations and stuff like that. And the one thing that struck him the most was that a significant number of the people who visited were motorcycle accident victims who had lost limbs. He met this one guy who was a computer programmer who was pretty well off but he lost an arm in an accident. Computer programmers with just one hand aren't that efficient and was eventually fired and now he's on the streets.

My friend used to be pretty enthusiastic about motorcycles but after that clinic he did a complete 180. If you do get the motorcycle, please be very careful.

nate_dawg

my mom lost her leg in a motorcycle accident
not her fault, bad fucking deal
you definitely gotta ride and drive for everyone else besides yourself, but even then it's pretty much out of your control
motorcycles are dangerous - that's what makes them cool and fun

crfpilot

Whatever you do, don't listen to Quiggles, a Ninja 250 is not a waste of time or money. I bought one for $2700 rode it for about 5000 learning miles and sold it for $2650. I now have been riding an F4i for the last 2 and a half years. The minimum safety gear you should be wearing is a FULL FACE DOT or Snell approved helmet, good leather gloves, and a leather or textile motorcycling jacket. (also you should be wearing boots, but I don't want to be a hypocryte, I don't wear mine for commuting only if I go riding in the canyons)

Again the Ninja 250 is a GREAT learning bike, also the EX500, and SV650 are good too especially if you will be doing a lot of highway riding or live in a really windy area. Get the book Proficient Motorcycling by David L. Hough, it will give you tons of information about how to ride safe on the streets.

If you have any more specific questions just ask.

Mango

I was contemplating a bike & saving my cash when I was 18 yo. Two of my friends died on thier bikes that summer. I bought a car instead and live to tell about it. Now that I am old I have a Virago 650 for commuting and running around. I still ride too fast but not near as fast as I would have at 18 yo.

146519

I was in the same situation as you last year and I eventually decided the risks outweighted the benefits. Having two aquaintances get seriously injured in a crash certainly helped myt decision

hotzot

here in new hampshire you can ride without a helmet. needles to say we get a shitload of deaths from people who ride their bikes without a helmet. WEAR A FUCKING HELMET!!! thanks

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geeza

Don't ride a bike if safety is your big issue. Don't ski, snowboard, surf, go jogging after dark, speak to strangers, or drink excessively. Don't do anything, frankly.

Or, accept that anything new involves a measure of risk, take the necessary steps to minimise the unnecessary elements of that risk, check it out, and then decide.

So, take the safety course, wear gloves, ankle hi boots (minimum), a decent jacket, and a brightly coloured helmet at all times, and don't position yourself where anyone could hit you if they actually *tried*.

tfin

I'll second that big time. The ninja 250 is a great starter bike, I have riden one and am buying one for my girl. The ex500 is also a great starter bike. I have also ridden that, the riding position is nice. But if you really feel that you need some super sport 600 for a first bike, can you will me what is left of the bike after you get kiled?

BooRadley

www.beginnerbikes.com

Start there.

jaywales

well the only thing i can tell you for sure is they are addictive theyre no longer a cheap form of transport. no matter what bike you get...i got first my bike in the uk where test laws are strict. i too started on a 250 gpx your older ninja after two weeks i was bored. i had reached the threshold of that bike, my limits were beyond what the bike could offer me...so i step up a gear. i finally stop at the cbr900 this was a few yrs ago..and i have had my share of scraps and crashes...the only advice i offer you is to start at the bottom and work your way up coz when you drop your bike (everyone does it) it wont cost you an arm and a leg. build up your experience and enjoy the freedom it brings. oh one last thing if your married consult with the wife!!!!! mine hates the bike i currently have a gsxr 750 and i had it before we met!!

Peetster

I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, does that count?

Bikes are great. I had one from the day I got my license until the day my wife convinced me that I really should only do one thing death defying thing at a time. Since I was a helo flight instructor at the time, I agreed and sold my bike.

Just be careful of the cockiness that you will start to feel after a year or so. That's when you know enough to kill yourself.

Sion

in another thread about this same topic (I think it was on v.3) I said that I think any new rider should start out OFFROAD, preferrably in a nice big, flat, grassy field, under the supervision of an experienced rider. The kind of place you can dump a bike at 35 mph and are not likely to get badly hurt doing it (been there done that, only thing injured was my pride). Anyway, there are SO many things to learn about riding motorcycles that can only be done by riding them that no amount of reading how-to's can prepare you for. When on the road, you must be able to react instinctually, if you have to think about what you have to do to survive a situation, you will not survive it. Simple as that. I road dirt bikes for years before I ever hit the road. And that is the only reason why I have survived to be typing this today. I dont have to think about what to do, I only have to watch for potential hazards, instinct does the rest. And that instinct only comes from riding and doing, making mistakes and learning how to correct and/or prevent them. And the road is a VERY unforgiving taskmaster when learning these things. However, offroad, while still dangerous, is somewhat less dangerous. Consider this, where would you prefer to hit the ground facefirst at 30 mph: on pavement or grass?

next, read any or all of the major motorcycle magazines and look for safe riding tips and techiques. Then learn to do them in that nice soft field. Learn how to do a donut, pop a wheelie, double clutch, power/speed shift, recover from a rear wheel spinout, etc. Learn how to lay a bike down at speed (say 30 mph) and be able to walk away with only scrapes and bruises. Learn how to jump and land a bike. (Not that you will intentionally get air on the road, but hell, I've had it happen accidentally on a road I didnt know.) All these things and many more will probably save your life someday.

as for helmets, while I agree that they are generally life saving devices, there are no guarantees. I've known people who have died wearing them, and others who survived while not. A buddy of mine T-boned a woman in a station wagon (she pulled out in front of him) while doing 35-40. He was launched about 30 feet and landed basically headfirst, in the grass by the side of the road, fortunately for him. He was not wearing a helmet and that probably saved his life. His E.R. doctor told him that had he been wearing a helmet, he would likely have broken his neck and died on the spot.

As stated above, the most important safety device is your attitude. Know your limitations, know your bikes limitations and you have the best chance of living to ride into your old age.


finally, the answer to this question:

"what justifies the dangers of riding around?"

is simple. Anytime you leave your house, you are risking your life. At least on a motorcycle, you can go out doing something exhilerating. I use my bike mostly for around town trips. As such, I rarely get it over 45-50 mph. But even at speeds as low as 30 mph, a motorcycle is 50 times more exciting than a car at 60 mph. It is a visceral thrill that has to be experienced to be understood.

good luck and enjoy.

btw, I think the choice of the 250 is a good idea for a beginner. not as good as 6 months of regular (at least 4 times a week) dirt riding, but better than jumping on a litre bike with a top end of 180.



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spookyfruit

My experience has been pretty good, and I recommend a similar path to anyone. I took the Motorcycle Safety Foundation riding course, which was taught on Buell Blasts (I took it through the dealer I was going to buy my own bike from). The Blast is a great bike for learning on - small, comfortable, highly maneuverable. 500cc engine, not too much oomph, difficult to get in trouble with, but enough power to get out of a jam if you need to. I bought a Blast after the course and rode that for a year before moving to a bigger bike. There are plenty of used Blasts out there, since loads of people use them the same way and then move up to a bigger bike.

After a year I moved up to a Ducati, but I kept the Blast to ride when the weather is bad, or for short city trips - the Duc is a blast, but it's not really what I would call a 'commuter bike'.

Riding a smaller bike for a year was the smartest thing I ever did - I didn't dump it, although I dropped one once during the safety course. When I moved up to the bigger bike there were a few times when I got the bike unstable, or accelerated a little too damn quickly without intending to (or with intending to, for that matter) and having ridden long enough to have some instincts kept me from putting it down.

I wear, on every single ride, a full-face helmet, kevlar-lined gloves, sidi full calf leather boots, and a jacket with hard inserts to protect my shoulders, elbows, and spine. I often wear a full-body suit with hardpoints at the knees in addition - particularly for aggressive riding.

If you are going to ride, and particularly if you are going to ride at all aggressively, it is my honest opinion that you are a fool or suicidal if you wear anything less than a full-face helmet, gloves, and a jacket at all times, regardless of weather. There are plenty of good jackets even for warm weather. Joe Rocket, for example, makes one with perforated leather and the hardpoints, it's quite cool. Not going to save your skin as nicely as a full leather, depending on how or if you slide, but better than no jacket by far.

There are a lot of great books about motorcycling. The ones I particularly like are:

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Guide to Motorcycling Excellence: Skills, Knowledge, and Strategies for Riding Right, Nate Rauba and the MSF
This is the basic reference. You need to ride safe, and its not always obvious how to do so. This book basically covers the same material you cover in the safety class, in a little more detail. Don't use it as a substitute for the class though - the class has lots of feedback on your particular riding, and actual practice on a bike.

Proficient Motorcycling, David L. Hough
This book is a collection of Hough's columns, organized in a pretty good manner, and contains numerous practical and not-necessarily-intuitive tips.

Street Strategies: A Survival Guide for Motorcyclists, David L. Hough
More of the same, also excellent reference. This time directed to the situations you can get into on the street.

Motorcycle Owner's Manual, Hugo Wilson
Guide to the machine for the basics. It's good to know something about the bike, particularly for minor repairs and maintenance. It's an expensive enough hobby without paying the shop to do everything.

The following books are great, but are not directed at the lowest-risk riding. If you start racing, or riding near the limits of roadways, machines, or your abilities, you really need to go with a full body suit. It will keep you with skin and joints if you dump the bike. Mind you, my assumption is I will someday dump the bike - either because I took a turn too aggressively, or because some driver in a box puts me in a situation where it is dump or be hit. I do everything I can to avoid those, but it's always possible.

These books all deal with riding aggressively:

A Twist of the Wrist: The Motorcycle Road Racers Handbook, Keith Code
A Twist of the Wrist 2, Keith Code
The Soft Science of Road Racing Motorcycles, Keith Code
All three of these deal with squeezing the most out of your bike, and focus on how to use your attention, how to maximize speed in and through turns, and the like. They are great books, Code is an excellent writer on the topic of motorcycles. I hope someday to take his superbike course, but California is a long way from Chicago.

Sportbiking: The Real World, Gary Jaehne
This is more of a pamphlet, but it has a lot of great tips, acknowledges the reality that riders will not always ride in the most cautious manner, will ride on regular roads at speeds that might be considered excessive by some, and may, from time to time, attempt to replicate the covers of the various cycling magazines in real world situations. Few, if any, other books do as much.

A final note - sorry for the length. Other posters have mentioned 'you will fall', or 'you will be at risk.' You might not fall - my experiences have been pretty good, as have some of the other posters. But -- and the MSF course is great about this -- it is not possible to eliminate risk from riding a motorcycle. Every time you get on it you are taking a risk that you might fall, or be hit by someone else. You need to acknowledge that risk. I liken it to the Zen thinking of a ronin, who assumes he is already dead in order to not fear death. I assume I will fall in order not to fear it. Riding a motorcycle with fear is neither fun nor safe. Instead, ride with a healthy respect for the machine, your environment, and the risks you are taking. Be ready to fall - but don't go out looking for it.

Riding a motorcycle is not for everyone. One of the guys in our MSF course was a great guy, but he dumped the bike once, and never got his nerves back. He dropped out of the course. Not because he was hurt, or a coward or anything - but he couldn't get over his fear that he might do it again. Other people dumped, got right back on, and kept at it. If riding is for you, you will know it by the end of the course - and you won't own a bike yet.

All of that said, learning to ride and buying bikes is something that has made me inordinately happy. I love riding. I ride 12 months a year, in Chicago. The only time I won't ride is if there is snow or ice on the ground. Riding a bike is nothing like riding a car - you are part of the environment, not moving through it as a spectator. Everything is closer and more present. It's just a blast. If you like it, you will love it, and you will never want to go back to the box.

To summarize:
Take the MSF course.
Wear safety gear.
Ride smart.
Have a great time.

-sf-

BoCo

Moror Cycles..... or Murder Cycles? It's up to you, dude.

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maddemon802

I have had 3 bikes, wrecked 2 of em when I was young and stupid (not my fault, but maybe could have been avoided) Bikes aren't that unsafe, but if you do have a wreck, the morbidity rate is much higher. I worked on a trauma team in a large city for a few years and most (95%) of the bike accidents I saw were drug/alcohol/speed related. That said get a bike- but not a 250 my wife bought an 800 (cruiser- no more sport bikes here) about a year ago and shes already taking my 1500 every chance she gets!...but if you do buy a small bike, get a used one so you don't take such a bad hit when you are ready to trade up!
Demon

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