Halx

(Disclaimer: Much of this thread is tongue-in-cheek sarcasm. The whole point is that I'm arguing that the TL is the best car on the market today)

Ok rather than threadjack bobby's post, I decided to take on all you peeps who seem to think a stripped down cheap-ass junior racer is somehow a better car than the Acura TL.

So you take a look at all the hard performance statistics. OF COURSE the SRT-4 is gonna beat the TL in a race. The TL is not a race car, you goons! It's a LUXURY SPORT SEDAN. That means it has enough power and handling to do ANYTHING it wants on the freeway, but you're not gonna see it burning up the race track.

Please take your cheap piece of shit comparisons to OTHER piece of shit American cars.

The TL has but a few competitors:
Lexus ES330 - slower, more luxurious boat-like, less sport
Infiniti G35 Sedan - Slightly less power, cheap-ass interior
Audi A6 - Way less bang for the buck
BMW 330i - Tight ride, but much less power and less features
BMW 5-series - Equivalent features and power.. for $15K more.
Cadillac CTS - The next closest competitor, too bad it won't last 1/3 as long as the TL will. It's also $5K more after price jack, with less power.

For the price, the Acura TL simply owns all for what it is. Don't compare a Celica to a Grand Marquis. Don't compare a PT Cruiser Convertable to a Z4. I don't care how fast your SRT-4, Mustang, or Monte Carlo is - you wouldn't catch me driving one over a TL. It's like ghetto living.

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Halx

Oh, and for kicks.. Mazda 6?



You get what you pay for with Mazda.

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poipu2000

"OF COURSE the SRT-4 is gonna beat the TL in a race."

SRT-4 is still a NEON. A Dodge Neon. A Dodge. Economy car. Of course, it's souped-up/tricked-out like crazy. Still a Neon in my eyes though.

TL is indeed a great ride although I'm not sure if it's the "pinnacle"
of automotive perfection. But you're right, it does have a lot
of things going for it compared to most competitors out there.
Any news when the new RL will be coming out. Similar styling to
the TL?

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Deuce66

About the comparison with the BMW330i...well, there is no comparison. As near as I can tell, the TL is front wheel drive..which well..is pretty worthless for a sports car. I dont care if the TL has 50 more hp, the fun of a sports car isnt acceleration, its tight cornering..drive a BMW, or any decent RWD sports car with a 50/50 weight distribution (the TL has a mediocre 60(front)/40(rear)).

Halx

Ok, well you may have your played-out yuppie status symbol BMW. I'll take the traction of FWD, the best safety ratings in the class, and signifigantly more affordable parts.

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DEI37

For me, the BMW M5, or the Cadillac CTS-V are the way to go. Six speed manual transmissions, 400+hp V8s, rear wheel drive, honest to goodness handling, critter comforts up the wazoo...true fun. Sure, the BMW is a $70k car, and the CTS-V is around $50k, but both cars are excellent, both cars are built on a proven platform, with proven hardware.

I agree that the Acura is a solid car, but honestly, it's an overpriced Honda, with a few extra little goodies here and there. I saw one in person the other day...can't say that I was impressed. I haven't driven one yet, maybe that would change things. It didn't sit well for me...the ergonomics just weren't quite right.

Oh, and personally, I'll take the traction of RWD, as under acceleration, it's more apt to stick than front wheel drive, as the weight shifts to the rear. In the winter (where I am, and you're not, of course), rear wheel drive is equally as capable in most circumstances with a judicious right foot. With today's traction control systems, FWD has no advantage, although, all wheel drive does.

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Deuce66

FWD only has better traction than RWD under inexperienced hands. And how is a BMW any more of a yuppie car than an Acura??

Halx

I never thought anyone would ever THINK to argue against BMW being the supreme yuppie car of all time... amazing.

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brandon11983

Pseudo-rich dickheads all drive BMW's. Its like their secret decoder ring. I don't have anything against BMW's, and if I drove one I would make it a point to be an ass to the rest of them. I will agree with Hal that the TL does have a shitload of bang for the buck. I personally prefer coupes, and I really like the looks (and sound) of the Infiniti G35 coupe. If I were to go with a sedan, I'd like the German engineered Audi A4 3.0.

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Deuce66

Honestly I dont care if someone thinks my car is "yuppie". Cars should be bought based on features and price, not a stupid stigma associated with them.

Also, I love Acuras. Several of my immediate family own one. The TL is a wonderfull car, and you get what you pay for, if not more. However, I cant fairly compare it to a sports car with a RWD transmission. The two cars might be mildly similar on paper, but they would be completely different on the road.

edit: P.S. Love the new avatar pic Hal.

irseg

My main beef with the TL is that it's front-wheel drive. I test drove a V6 Accord Coupe a few months ago and liked it, except for that trait.

I guess if you drive nothing but FWD cars you get used to the odd steering feel and the tendency to dart off to the side when you gun it, but I've never owned anything but rear-drivers so anything else feels very unnatural to me.

exizldelfuego

Seems like the Volvo S60 fits in well with the competitors. The T5 gives approx. same HP (MY05 T5 is 260HP) and fwd as well. Or go up to the S60R for AWD and 300HP. Granted, a few grand more than the TL, but certainly in line with your list of competitors.

Kurant

I owned an E46 M3 and if you want to compare a Honda/Acura to it, well, that's laughable. Obviously you've never driven one. Don't get me wrong, the Acura is one hell of a nice car, but in no way does it compare to ANY 5-series IMO. An A6, yeah, maybe. But the 05' A6 is awfully nice. You also forgot to mention, Audi/BMW and Mercedes are ALL available in AWD in that price-range and car class.

Bang for the buck? You HAVE to throw the new C-Class in the mix. Starting at 29,000, it's very comparable to the TL in terms of buck bangage. A $35,000 C-Class will be very close to what the TL is at that price. As far as reliability and quality, Mercedes has promised it's build quality issues are fixed, so the C-Class has to be a worthy opponent in that class of car.

Other then that, your right on. I love the TL, except front wheel drive. Car and Driver even said they could charge 50g's for that car, but they can't, because it's front wheel drive. I wish Acura would make an AWD version of the TL, I would jump on it in a second.

fuzyfuzer

i'm sorry but i can't stand the tl my mom had one as a loaner for her mdx i drove it all day and didn't feel good in it at all i didn't feel in controle, i didn't feel like it was an extension of my body in the slightest it felt like i was driving a rc car,just puting in information and seeing a change but feeling nothing

i love that you love your car and you should but give me a 330ci zhp any day or my 528i and i am as overjoyed as a dog with a fresh chew toy

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Halx

I didn't include the Volvo 'cause that interior is so dreadfully bland, you'd fall asleep behind the wheel if you ever took your eyes off the road.


..and I never ever ever mentioned an M3.. what you smokin' Kurant?

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Nimisys

Chrysler's 300C seems to be more car for the same buck as the TL, but with RWD and a v8. more power, gobs more torque, more room inside and out, refined rwd platform.

also by the way the CTS comes close as well when equipped with the 3.6 shortstar. as for lasting quality, time will tell, however from first hand expeirience i have no doubt as to how long they will last.


not to mention saab's 9-3 viggen... less power, but wieghs a good 400 pounds less, with more torque. not to meniton thebest handling FWD setup i have ever experienced.

Halx

Throwing a Chrysler into the mix is like fighting with a paper sword! C'mon! The 300 is FUGLY and heavy. It only comes in Auto. Has crappy gas milage.

Did I mention that the TL is a ULEV? Don't even bother to look at the 300's index.

I drove the CTS before I discovered the TL. I can tell you that I was fully obsessed with getting one. Seriously... that car was gonna be mine. UNTIL I discovered the TL. Simply more features on the TL, SIMPLER ones too.

Don't even mention Saab. Please. The degradation those pieces of shit go through in their first year is ridiculous. The only reason why they hold any value at all is because they are undersold - because they suck.

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CrazySaturn

While you may love the TL, calling ANY car the "pinnacle of automotive perfection" is stupid and immature.
First off, power is eliminated from the equation when you can't put it down. RWD has many advantages to FWD when it comes to driving. The inherent weight transfer advantage during acceleration and the lack of torque steer lets a RWD car put the power to the pavement much better than FWD cars. Also, keeping the steering and driving wheels independent of each other leads to both more spirited and safer driving. In a FWD car what happens in snow or rain when you hydroplane or lose traction? Both steering and accleration are eliminated from the driver's control, whereas in RWD you still have power to maneuver.
Meanwhile the 300C, G35, and CTS are nipping at your heels, each with their own strengths and weaknesses for equal prices as your blessed TL. Complain about the G35's "cheap" interior? Watch it pass you handily with it's less power at the track/on the freeway wherever for 4g's less. Moan about how the 300's an auto? Look at it, listen to it, watch it roast it's tires and try to contain your jaw from dropping to your toes. I know I can't. Proclaim about how little power the CTS has? It just got more with the new engine, specifically 255 more horses and 252 lb-ft.

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Halx

CrazySaturn, you should seriously rethink your wording. My thread title is purely sarcasm, quoting a line from bobby's post that was in danger of being threadjacked. Do your research and learn some manners.

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bodypainter

Halx, while your TL does offer a whole lot of bang for the buck, in my eyes it lacks personality. I like a car with very distinctive styling, a car that won't be mistaken for a family grocery-getter at a glance.

IMO, this is a wonderful time to be into cars. The engineering, efficiency, and quality are so much better than ever before. But it seems like too many of them are lacking in soul and personality.

I guess this is why I still yearn for an NSX, even though I do have a fairly distinctive car now.

Gimli

Isn't the TL the JDM verison of the Accord?

Nimisys

might want to look at that milage again, being that it is rated at 17/25. which for a vehicle that weighs 600pounds more, produces 70 more hp and 152 ft-lbs of torque more than yours ain't bad at all, espiccally when you consider your is only doing 20/30.

as for emissions index, in all relaity i don't give a damn, as the level of output is soo damn low now anyways.

Tech

i'm with crazysaturn...

if your entire thread is purely sarcasm then you are starting arguement simply for the sake of it and it's his total right to disagree with you, just as everyone else has. and as for manners, his post is just as, if not more, mannered than yours

"Please take your cheap piece of shit comparisons to OTHER piece of shit American cars"

sarcasm or not, that's not good manners.

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Halx

The *thread* isn't sarcasm. And I never called anyone's actions stupid and immature. If you're gonna post, post about cars. buddy. Don't bring me off the subject. You're allowed to get spirited about it as long as you don't insult anyone.

All CrazySaturn was ranting about is the kinda bullshit that Car and Driver magazine publishes. Who do those idiots cater to? They treat every single review as if the car is supposed to stack up to a Ferrari. I think I'm trying to make my point that it doesn't matter how fast your car goes - style points count as well.

One more thing about the G35 (The sedan does not go faster than the TL) is that it's HIDEOUSLY oversold. I can't drive down to Starbucks without seeing at least 5 of those things. One thing you should look for in a car is value durability - Nissan/Infiniti cannot offer that. Honda/Acura on the other hand take care of their customers by NEVER overselling their cars, thus keeping resale value high.

Nimi - that's fine if you don't care about emissions. I do. I suppose if you live in a large city like San Diego, the air is all ready fucked up enough to not give a damn, but it never hurts to give a shit. Furthermore, if the car is 500lbs heavier, I don't care how fast it goes - it's not gonna corner as well, even after modifications.

Gimli, the TL is based off the Accord platform, but I believe the TSX design is the JDM Accord.

bodypainter, your attraction to distinction may have won you some admiration with your new car, but here in LA, you wouldn't get a second glance unless it's either brand new, an SL500 or a CL55 AMG. I get people pulling up next to me on the freeways all the time to check out my car. You tell me that's not attraction and personality.

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CrazySaturn

Honda and Acura not overselling? The reason they have good resale is because they are good reliable economy cars. They may not have the best interiors, the most powerful engines, or the most attractive exteriors, but they are great cars for average people.

As for the G35, every test I've seen so far has the G35 beating the TL. Also, I think the interior is quite nice.

As for your response to Nimi, how about I don't care how much less it weighs, it's not going to corner as well because it's FWD?

You're not calling anyone stupid or immature, true, but you're bashing people's cars like no tomorrow, which can easily be taken as a personal insult. Some of your quotes:
"Ok, well you may have your played-out yuppie status symbol BMW."
"I didn't include the Volvo 'cause that interior is so dreadfully bland..."
"C'mon! The 300 is FUGLY and heavy."

I'm not ranting about how C&D talks about cars, I'm ranting about how you are shooting everyone's ideas down with a seeminlgy non-open mind.

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Halx

Hey, you're hittin' at my car, I can hit at yours

Dude, loosen the hell up. Sorry I got your panties in a bundle, but you should stick to your guns and have fun with the subject instead of trying to rain on my delivery.

What I'm saying is where the TL may lack in speed against other cars, it makes up for it in luxury. Your arguements were something that you can get out of reading a magazine like Car and Driver.

And what are you talking about the G35 beating the TL in tests? Ohh.. wait.. yeah.. Car and Driver. They are heavily biased against FWD cars. They ranked it 3rd behind the G35 and the CTS because of that. What you forgot to mention was that it was ranked top in Engine, Interior and Exterior. The only reason why it ranked 3rd over all was because of the mountain road fetish of the C&D critics, lost a lot of points for being FWD - and the G35, which was ranked 2nd in every category ended up with the best over all score. I read that article while I was bored in an airport.

So what IS the TL also the best in it's class at? Let's start with safety. Best crash ratings in it's class. Emissions? Best. Reliability? Consumer rated best.

Face it, it's one great automobile.

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brandon11983

It seems to me like a lot of people are taking this thread waaaay to seriously. Calm yourselves kids, the boss just got a brand spanking new car, give the man a break. Most of us would do the same thing. I know I would. The more I look at it, I really have fallen in love with the TL. I think I'd take it over an A4. I'd take mine in black with black leather though. I'm behind Hal 100%, the car kicks ass for the green you pay for it. And you don't trip over one every block like you do other cars... BMW's for example.

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Nimisys

my point is when looking at the jnumbers seperating a LEV, form a ULEV, from a SULEV, and form PZEV vehicles, the numbers aren't that different. you probably have never even the smog prinout for your car let alone any other new (within the last 3 years) car to make the comparison on. the best civic 10 years ago could probably not match the emissions of an LS1 corvette, or hell even a v8 truck today. the air quailty in socal sucks for two reasons; one is the geography, you live in a valley surrounded by large mountains (rouhgly 5000 foot difference betwen the valley floor and the mountains i bet) and i live at sea level with a 5000 foot mounatin range 50 miles east of me. unlike i other parts of the country the smog gets trapped int he area directly overhead since its not going to get pushed up and over the mountains. thats why emissions testing beyond the mounatins is only required in those area at the time of sale. gthe second reason is volume, there are more cars in socal than there are in any other part of the world. everyone driving ULEV, SULEV, etc isn't going to have the same affect because of the geography anyways.

Second vehicle wieght contributes to handling, but not nearly as much as hpw the weight is handled and balanced by the car. a heavy car with even weight distrabution and a low unsprung weight can out handle a siginifcantly lighter car with an uneven wieght balance and terriable sprung weight. despite its signifcantly lower weight no one will try to claim an insight will outcorner a corvette.

bodypainter

Speaking only for myself I would say that when I posted earlier I was speaking only for myself.

I don't give much of a flip what anyone else thinks of my car. Mercedes isn't a rare thing around here either and in fact it seems like every 4th car on the road in Sarasota is German. It's what the car does for *me* when I look at it and what it does for *me* when I drive it that's important. That's right folks, it's all about me.

I think Halx's TL is very cool. If I was in the market right now for a new 4-seater I'd give it a good hard look. I certainly can't refute his assertions concerning the car.

CrazySaturn

Every 1/4 mile and 0-60 stat I've seen puts the G35 in front.

As for the up tight thing, the way you put everything and the inherent lack of smilies, as well as just watching other people get frustrated/ticked off, just seemed like you were trying to start trouble, which seemed really out of character in the first place!

Glad I've finally got it figured out!

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Gimli

Seems that FWD vs. RWD really divides people. I have a staunch opinion on the matter as well. Regardless, it's hard to argue that Honda has not provided good value in this near-luxury category.

I still miss the original Legend coupe and I wish they hadn't done away with that name. It had started to have a stigma about it. I still remember the R&T headline, "Will America Accept A $25,000 Honda?" But that was 1986...

So, Halx, welcome to your well-deserved realm of the near-luxury car. Hats off.

Halx

I've been ragged on for my lack of smileys for years. What is wrong with you people? You can't properly read a post without emoticons?

I'm also known for delivering sarcasm and puchlines with a straight face.

TL owns joo!!!111!!11!

Are you sure you're not looking at G35 Coupe trials?

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CrazySaturn

Yep, everything I've seen so far has said the G35 beats the TL 6-speed.

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brandon11983

Smilies are fucking retarded.

/threadjack.

You may now continue to squabble.

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breastboy

I'm not sure I'd say that the TL is the pinnacle of automotive either...if anything, you might say that it's the pinnacle of an luxury sedan (but then I'd argue that too)..if i had to pick a best car that acura has ever designed, I'd pick the NSX, I would call that the pinnacle of automotive (price notwithstanding)...the TL is pretty good car but I find that its design doesn't compare to say..an infiniti....just my opinion

exizldelfuego

Could you maybe elaborate on this? Because I really don't see how the S60's interior could be at all bland. I find it to be extremely comfortable, functional, and non-distracting. Let's face, when I'm driving, the only time the car's interior should ever catch my attention is when something mechanically has gone wrong. Elsewise, the interior should provide quick and efficient means of accessing trip information and facilitate mindless operation of car controls, all of which the Volvo interior does quite well. And as far as attractiveness goes, I fail to see how the S60 isn't. For people's reference:

The Acura TL
<img src="http://www.acura.com/images/tl/tl_gallpop_img12_int.jpg" alt="Acura TL">

The Volvo S60
<img src="http://www.swedespeed.com/gallery/generated//FWD%20and%20AWD/S60/Interior/001__scaled_600.jpg" alt="S60 Interior">

Gimli

Wow! That Volvo interior actually looks fantastic! Who would've thought?

Peryn

Ack... the bumblebee black/yellow stripes would drive me nuts on that Volvo.

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Scorps

I don't see anything wrong with mazda's, I might ever drive one, but I like there look!

exizldelfuego

Well, I do have to concede that the Volvo interior I've shown is no longer available. Personally, I love it and wish it were still available, then it'd be in my car. But unfortunately, it didn't do so well in the NA market, so it was discontinued over here. It does, however, have a sibling with black leather and blue cloth with is quite nice (with aluminum trim instead of wood), I just couldn't find any good pictures of it.