Halx

Uhh yeah.. that S60 interior is PURE SHOW. The interior that comes on the models that they actually sell is lame. You didn't show the front console and the dash - flat and uninspiring.

As for when does the interior MATTER? Hmm... let's take last Saturday night as an example. I took a girl out to a club in my TL. She was so floored by the sheer style of my car... well... I'm gonna make sure we go out again soon.

Your taste in cars reflects on you. I suppose if you're a neutered pet husband, it doesn't matter as long as the car runs cheap (TL, rated by Edmunds to be lowest cost-to-own in it's class) but regardless of if some of you don't see personality in this car - women perceive the very masculine styling of this car. Put it all together.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

bad30th

Slightly off-topic:

HalX- I wasnt trying to call you out in that other thread or anything. Its just that it seemed like since you got your car (and congratulations), anytime anyone mentions another car, you're there with a... "Isnt a TL," or a.... "The TL has more class/lux/sportiness/performance/etc." And no one would say anything because you are "the boss," as someone put it. It was just getting old, so I fugured I'd throw a comment out there.

As far as comparing the TL to the SRT4, I only did so because someone said the TL would outperform the SRT4 on a track (stock for stock) which simply isnt true. I do realize that the two cars are in a completely different category.


On topic:

I think the TL is a great looking car, with respectable power numbers, but I just cant get past the FWD thing. The interior looks ok (if you like that space-ship look), but more gadgets = more shit to break.

For me, performance is more important than luxury or style.....just the way I am.
As far as the TL having so much "style" and "class" and all the people "pulling up on freeways to check it out"........ well thats great and all but I say So What. But then again, i dont really need other people to like my car, or be impressed with it, or be envious of it, etc to feel good about myself or my purchase.

Now as far as "women perceiving its very masculine styling," cmon. Really. Its a good looking car, but its far from masculine. It's svelte and smooth, quiet and refined. Very feminine qualities. If you want masculine, pull up in an illegally loud, loping, rumbling American V8 with so much torque to the rear wheels that pushing the Go-Pedal makes you cream your pants. Rest assured, she will too.

irseg

That figures. I like that interior. I wish there was a demand for anything but dishwater gray and paper bag tan.

One of the nicest interior colors I've seen was in a mid-90s Cadillac. It was called oxblood. Which is a good description, but I'm not so sure about naming luxury car colors after bodily fluids.

Halx

bad30th.. I think you're assuming a lot for the ONE post in which I have said such a thing - and I did so only after the comparison was mentioned. Please dont blanket anything I do without doing research.

Now I'm not speaking from my own opinion when I say things about the styling. It's been written in several reviews that the styling is masculine, sharp, with a conservative rear end. The lines are sharp, fast and sexy. I may *agree* with these observations, but they are not my own original thoughts. I make sure that when i say something, I've read something to back it up.

The number of male TL owners VASTLY overshadows the number of female TL owners. This should tell you something.

When I pull up to an American muscle car, I have a few things on my mind. One of them is 'trash' - now that's not to pre-emptively judge the driver of the car, but on average, the main kinds of people who I see driving camaros, mustangs or monte carlos are fat middle-aged women, men with mullets and mustaches, or obnoxious latinos. Sure, I see a few decent people in the cars, but I see more decent people in Ford Focuses.

Corvette? Middle-aged men who use it for looks.
Viper? Whitebread yuppie.

No, I am not inspired by a modern car whose only redeeming value is an oversized, inefficient engine. If 'masculine' to you is loud and obnoxious, please do not invite me out for a drink.

Classic cars are another matter. If you have a classic muscle car, you just might be the real deal. It's respectable to see an old car in good condition.

Yeah, you're right about not caring what other people think of your car. It's not a justification, it's an added bonus. I suppose if you're absolutely oblivious to what people think of you too, I repeat - don't invite me out for a drink.

Hell, you're talking about the TL as if it CAN'T burn rubber, though. I can tell you that aside from the style of the car, I did show off all 6 gears to her too. She was impressed. I'm sure the 3-series I burned was too. 0-60 in 5.7 seconds is NOT slouching.

So there you have it, it's not about being a one-trick pony. It's about doing a lot of things at once and doing everything competently. The TL excells at that.

As far as all the gadgets - nothing's broken yet! As long as you use them, they are worth it, and that I do.

So here's my take. I wouldn't trade my TL for a car with twice the power, but no luxury. I wouldn't trade it for a car with twice the luxury, but no power. All the cars that offer more of both are more expensive, less reliable and are naturally less 'sporty'. Wave a Caddy CTS-V in front of my face and I'd still take a few days to think about it.

I've had my car for just over a month and it's absolutely perfect. Those who know me can appreciate this statement because I am perfectionist, tempermental and beyond picky.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Gimli

I must say, Hal has peaked my interest in this car. I'm willing to forgive it's FWD. I wouldn't take it to the track.

Acura has floundered in their near-luxury offering since they invented the class in 1990-ish. I used to love Legend coupes. Awesome. I almost never forgave them for giving up that name for a soulless alphanumeric nomenclature. But such are the times. They invented the class! Why give up the heritage? And their offerings throughout the last ten years in their highest tier have been, well, forgettable. I've seen a lot of awfully drab TL-type things in my last decade. Hal, wouldn't you agree?

That's why I think this latest incarnation is finally a signal that Acura refuses to give up the niche it created and will put out a damn fine car, FWD or not, to re-stake its claim.

Hal, you're right - that damn car looks wonderful. Compared to the last TL's, which were utterly invisible, it seems Acura, nee Honda, has a point to make finally. And I don't think we've heard the last of them.

Enjoy the car - I doubt the FWD will ever show itself as a debit - this is not an autocross machine. It will take good care of you for a long time to come.

I'm interested...

CrazySaturn

May I scream out huge generalization here? So anyone with an old muscle car is the real thing, but any one with an american current sports car is a fraud? I agree with you that V6 Camaro/Stang owners in general are not enthusiast drivers, however this turns them into every possible offensible niche there is? My personal experience has had some assholes driving said cars, but many of them are true sporting drivers.

Also, you seem to have verged a heck of a lot of every argument on what to me is a basically superficial life. You seem like you're trying too hard to impress, and in the process are stomping on anyone who isn't at the leading edge of technology/styling etc.

As for the inefficient large engine comment, do you really need that V6 in there? It could easily be argued your engine is just as inefficient, I mean, how often do you need all 270 of those horses? Sure, passing, but then why are the 300+ in Z28's and SS's and the 250+ in Mustang GT's thrown into the inefficient section? Those same cars can get amazing gas mileage depending on how they're driven, yet they are still too large and inefficient? You sound as if you're setting standards by your car, which works for you, but not for the majority of other people.

__________________
What's the difference between you and a mallard with a cold? One's a sick duck...I can't remember how it ends, but your mother is a whore!

Halx

I thought I worded myself well enough so that you MAY NOT scream out generalization. I think this thread is a good example of the fact that people only see what they want to see. It favors you to have me sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, so you see it that way - ignoring little words here and there.

Please.. read honestly.

I can get 38 mpg in my very efficient, very clean vehicle when I drive it properly. If I am to argue that the TL is the 'pinnacle of automotive perfection' (tongue in cheek) I must set the bar at it's level and then compare everything to it.

In no way am I saying that other cars are bad. I have respect for some Toyotas that last forever. I can dig a slick, useful GTI. I just may become green with envy at the sight of a BMW 760. However, all things compared, and considering that the TL is what this thread is about, I would be getting off subject to NOT set the standards for this discussion high.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Halx

Some unique features that I really enjoy about the TL:

HandsFreeLink - Bluetooth connectivity built into the console so you can take phone calls without taking your hands off the wheel. I use this feature a lot.

The navigation system - it's considered to be the best navi out there. It's completely integrated with the car and is totally easy to use.

Voice recognition - I can do anything by voice from adjusting the dual zone climate control, to changing the settings on the radio, to calling my sister on her cell. It's very accurate at recognizing the commands.

DVD-Audio compatibility - 5.1 surround sound in the CAR? Yeah... and it's pretty sweet too.

The sweet blue guages - Come on, even if you hate everything about this car, you gotta admit that the guages are fuckin' sweet.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

MSD

No acusations here, but the combination of those two statements made me laugh.

As for the whole argument at hand, the two of us could never agree, as you once mentioned that despite the quality and beauty of the mods on your Accord, it just didn't feel right. I want to personalize everything I own. I wouldn't feel right in anything bone stock, short of a Ferrari or classic AC Cobra. Right now, my vision of combined power and luxury involves some extensive work on what used to be my mom's Town Car involving a Mark-VIII QOHC engine and some serious forced induction. If FWD hadn't been spoiled for me by my tractionless and torque steer-plagued Buick, maybe I could learn to love the TL, but I'll take a bigass pimptastic boat that I build by hand and paint for myself over anything that comes off of an assembly line.

Mitzkrieg

well, i've got a '02 TL and love it. look forward to being able to trade it for the '04 TL soon.

In my opinion and experience, you get better bang for the buck with the TL. the features and performance specs are very close if not better than most of the cars in it's class, and the sticker is lower. it's been that way since the '02 TL came out.

but that's all i'll say. this argument looks like it won't change anybodies mind anyways.

Halx

MSD, the starbucks comment was also tongue-in-cheek. I need to write a manual on how to detect when I am joking.

About customizing - when you do that stuff, you're on your own when it comes to problems that may arise. Either you fix it yourself or you pay some guy to fix it who may or may not know the intricacies of your make and model. I found myself having issues and not trusting my resources. The dealership refused to work on them for any reasonable amount of money.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

BoCo

I'm not going to argue with anyone, but I will agree with Hal.

__________________
Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.

MSD

That's why I laughed instead of frowning and shaking my head

bad30th

edit: sorry for the length! sheesh! I quote too much

My point was that it just seems like its always TL this and TL that.....

Couple examples:
The TL is better.
Honda is masculine and great.
My car is great.
TLs are rare and great.

Dont take offense I'm actually just kinda kidding around with you


But see now you're just......


Says who? Are you stating this as fact because you see more guys driving them then girls?
If you're thinking that the "fat middle-aged women, men with mullets and mustaches, or obnoxious latinos" are trash in their Camaro or Mustang, would they be different in a TL? You'd still think "Trash," but then "Nice car." (Or maybe "nice car," and then "trash" as I'm sure you'd notice the car before the driver )

But now if you're thinking "trash" about the actual car, well then that just shows your automotive ignorance. If its an old-and-busted 7-different-color pile of V6 trash, then ok. But if you're thinking that a V8 Camaro/Mustang in excellent condition is trash, then like I said....ignorance.

I'd have a Corvette now if I had the means......but hey were not all porn stars.

Well Hal, first off I think you are forgetting about one little thing, which isnt surprising, since your amazing TL lacks it. Torque. "Oversized, ineffficient engines" make buket-loads of torque at very low rpm. And the inefficient part is pretty funny, since I get 20 mpg when I am driving like an idiot, and almost 30 on the highway. The LEV Honda S2000 barely gets that with half the cylinders.

As far as the loud comment, I dont think you are quite understanding what I'm saying, and the only way to really make you understand is to take you for a ride......which isnt exactly possible. So I'll just leave that alone.

I agree whole-heartedly.

Well you see Hal, its not that I'm oblivious to what others think of me, its just that I dont really care. And that doesnt mean I'm an idiot or I have bad personal hygene (or whatever you were getting at there), but I'm just not that shallow.

Congratulations. You bought a fast car.

You've had the car how many miles? Come back when you're up at around 100k and let us know how all those gadgets are doing. Then again, you probably wont have the car past 50k, so you're probably fine.

Then you purchased the perfect car for you. I really am happy for you. But that doesnt mean its the perfect car, period.

Again, dont get pissed off....my comments here arent meant to do that. Just having a discussion and giving you a little bit of a hard time. To quote, "Hey, you're hittin' at my car, I can hit at yours "

Halx

See, man, I know what the tone of your post was, but I cant help but point out a few bad assumptions you made. Just because I am a fan of Honda/Acura doesn't mean I'm touting for the TL when I mention the company. You think I'm making up the bit about male vs female drivers - like I said, I gather my information before I make statements. I'll stop before I start sounding pissed.

But anyways, if you read between the lines a little bit, you'd see that I'm arguing that the TL is the best complete package you can buy today. I can see that a few people are agreeing with me, so I must have said something right along the way. They don't even own an 04 TL and they concur. Might I conjecture that those who are arguing may just be feeling a twinge of jealousy at how confident and happy I am with my car? Ahh, that would be assuming too much.

bad30th, I think you nullified your own point about ignorance about cars with your last little bit about me buying the perfect car for me.What? Did I not do enough research on myself to discover that a horsepower beast with bucket racing seats and a V8 that could conveniently tow the boat that I have no intention of owning any time soon is the perfect car for me? I must not know enough about cars to realize this.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

R3d

i totally agree with Halx on this.. the TL is an amazing car.. my gf has a 330xi and ive driven it.. hot little car i'll give it that, but for the money spent on it, its not that justifiable. I'm trying to talk my dad into getting the TL we took one for a testdrive last saturday and hes in love with it, he let me take it out for a bit and well damn does that car handle like a dream, its very responsive (something i found my gf's 330xi a bit lacking). for what you pay for the TL you do get one of the best all around packages that are out there today in my opinion.

irseg

And I'll conjecture that going on and on about the superiority of your car and how other are so impressed by it is generally an indicator of some self-confidence issues.

Halx

Ahh, the difference is that I didn't conjecture. But you did. Hmm... this psychology is interesting!

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

bad30th

ok i'll give you that. I stand corrected.

no i was genuinly asking. if you can show me some statistic where you got that, then cool.

Well sounding pissed or not, I hope you arent actually getting pissed about someone disagreeing with you. I wasnt mean or rude or insultive....just pointing out a few of my own observations and opinions.

Personally, for the money I'd rather buy a BMW 330i, but thats just me. I will agree, however, that the TL is a close runner-up (again, for me).

Hal, no offense meant at all, but did you ever think that maybe part of the reason that lots of people always agree with you everywhere and not many people disagree with you anywhere is because you are "the boss?" :shrug: Not saying thats entirely whats going on, but whatever. I dont own a Geo, and I say they are the greatest total package car ever. Am I right? God no.

wow...ummm...no. irseg already covered this, i think.

You're bypassing my point. Of course you didnt want that kinda of car.....you did buy one. Point is, for a lot of people, that Camaro or Mustang is their perfect car. And for you to think of it as trash just because it isnt your perfect car or because of some ill-gotten preconceived notion is ignorance. I never said you dont know enough or anything about cars, but its obvious that your magazine-and-online knowledge-base revolves around what you are interested in (namely, luxo-sport sedans), leaving out what you arent interested in (namely Camaros and Mustangs, etc).

And you never answered my question about whether you think the drivers you see in these cars (fat middle-aged women, men with mullets and mustaches, or obnoxious latinos ) are trash, or just the shitty cars are trash, or all the cars are trash....

Again, no offense man.... (maybe I should just put this in my sig. )

matteo101

Theres only one way to solve this. Bad30th, MSD, etc whatever it is you actually drive, race Halx in the quarter mile.. This is round one. Next we will enter the cars in a carshow which is judged by the looks of the car, and the features. Next is the autocross, this will test handling and suspension. Next is a car audio competition. ETC ETC ETC.

The point of that was not to see which car is better, it is to show that each car is better in a different way. I think that all Halx wanted to say is that allaround his car is the perfect package FOR HIM. For him he wants a car that is fast, stylish, handles well, has gizmos gadgets, and is the all around package for his lifestyle and his driving needs. You on the other hand may go strictly for speed, and bypass the handling part of it, or the gadgets. This being said, to each their own.

Halx

well, matteo, some of the factors I mentioned are not competition factors. You can't compete on hard numbers such as safety ratings, milage, emissions, price/value, and owner satisfaction polls. All of which the TL excells at.

Anyways, bad30th, your paranoia about people agreeing with me simply because I'm 'the boss' is funny. Why is it funny? Because that's what EVERYONE who disagrees with me says. It's a convenient little support to lean on when your own arguments aren't cutting it, isn't it? Get over it. I possess logic that people can agree with and that's why I am 'the boss' in the first place.

So, what's trash? Trash is someone who lacks in some areas and overcompensates in others. Hence - easily affordable muscle. I wasn't blanketing everyone who owns a muscle car to be trash, but I was observing that most of them that I do see - ARE. I'll always appreciate a well-kept car, but Mustangs and the such are a dime a dozen. While I can see how such a car could be the pinnacle of someone's automotive expectations, it is far more likely that even though they could afford a nice, reliable, safe and sensible Accord for the same money, they got the Mustang because it hauls more ass. And that's about all it does.

BTW, that little bit about the conjectures - PURELY meant to get a rise out of you. Guilty.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

DEI37

I'd forgotten about one car. The new Pontiac GTO. If you NEED four doors, you're screwed, but otherwise...killer bang for the buck.

__________________
Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

CrazySaturn

Halx, you used the word opinion once in this whole thread, and even then you were using it to solely say that magazines agree as well.

You seem to be turning what is opinion into fact. If you're not, show how you haven't, but I just haven't seen it.

Also, I drive a damned 94 Saturn SL2. It's an OK car, but is no where near a beautiful or stylish car. I don't wear any current popular trends, just what I see and I like. However, I've found that people come back for a second date with me because of my personality instead of my appearance. Sure, a Maserati would get me more women, but I'd rather not take someone who sees me for my car.

__________________
What's the difference between you and a mallard with a cold? One's a sick duck...I can't remember how it ends, but your mother is a whore!

Halx

Uhhh.. the GTO? Bang for the buck? $32000 for a car with 350hp, a bland design (the concept was far better, though still not interesting), a cheap interior, a stereo that only amounts to 200 watts because it has 10 speakers, only 2 airbags and absolutely no other notable features? Ok. Right.

0-60 in 5.4 seconds. That's only .3 seconds faster than the TL, with 70 more HP and 130 more pounds of torque. I rest my case.. whatever it was.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Halx

CrazySaturn, if you drive that car, you BETTER have a great personality. (Elbow jab) And I gotta hand it to you for that. Truthfully, I got no disrespect for the economy cars - you do what you gotta do to get along.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Halx

And for reference, the G35 Sedan's 0-60 is listed at 6 seconds. Slower than the TL's 5.7

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

CrazySaturn

Where are you getting the 5.7?
Hey, at least my car has numbers AND letters in its name...

__________________
What's the difference between you and a mallard with a cold? One's a sick duck...I can't remember how it ends, but your mother is a whore!

Halx

Well the commonly referred number is 5.7, but this C&D review put 'em at 5.8 - which is understandable because they clocked the G35 at slower than 6.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=6

I think Hyundai is kicking everyone's ass in the number and letter combination names.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

bad30th

Hmm where have I heard that before......oh yeah......thats exactly what I said....
Well as a matter of fact, no, Hal. You are as much of a dick on these forums as I am, except that you are the boss and I am not. People get pissed at me all the time....and RARELY do people get pissed at you. Almost nobody disagrees with you. Ever. Guess what.....you're a measly 21 years old, just like me. You are not a wise elder who has traveled the world and been around longer than dirt. And you are "the boss" because you happened to start this forum. Admittedly, a good idea....obviously. Its not a matter of me getting over it......its a matter of you getting over yourself.

So is a race car trash? It has no luxury, but goes fast exceedingly well....

I bought my Camaro to go fast and handle well. I stiffened pretty much every component of the suspension and chassis as I could (not quite done yet) so that I could improve that handling. Why? Because I am a poor college student who also like to go fast and race his car., but doesnt give a rat's ass about luxury. No, my car isnt one of those pile of shit beater IROC Camaros you see in a heap by the side of the road with Pedro working under the hood, but rather a '97 30th Anniversary Z28. If you've never driven a newer Camaro, then I'm sure you will lump it together with your view of all the others you've seen. So even tho going fast is my passion (as opposed to being perceived by other people in a certain way), and I am probably as picky and meticulous as you are about keeping my car clean and mechanically perfect, my car is trash. But see thats ok because I love my car. Thats all that really matters.

To be honest, I dont really know why I'm going on like this.....I like the TL. I guess its just your air of superiority about it that gets me.....but for all I know, thats just how you are with everything. :shrug:

Well done. Ass.

Halx

I gotta say you're giving age too much credit for wisdom. You think the TFP is a big accident? There's a reason this ego is as big as it is - I'm successful! Quick! Someone hit me with a little humility! So you're 21 years old - it's ok that you are who you are. I'm not asking you to be anything like me. I'm not comparing you to me either. I simply see the world through different eyes than you and I embrace that fact willingly; knowing that we may disagree at every step of the way, but at least it's not bitter discourse with vindictive agendas. Oh wait.. nevermind.

I'm just gonna keep sitting here with this stupid grin on my face until you realize that people are agreeing with me because I'm right. Come on.. it's ok to admit it. You even alluded to it yourself. You like the TL. Is it so hard to realize that other people do as well? They also agree to arguements based on their content and merit, not because they're afraid to disagree. Hell, I'm not forcing anyone to reply to this thread, yet they are; piping in with their 2 cents. Give up the crusade!

Furthermore, I like how you took exception to various things I said and applied them to yourself, even when I constantly noted that I wasn't blanketing everyone, but talking about the majority. You take every opportunity to step in front of the bullets when you know they are not aimed at you.

Anyways... 'going fast' means what? Breaking 170mph on a daily basis? Beating other cars in races? It's cool that your passion is going fast - it's mine too. That's why I got a car that can cream anything it meets on the freeway in traffic. It's max speed is about 165 mph and truthfully, I've never driven faster than 140mph in ANYTHING. How about you? Do you use all of your bird's power on a daily basis?

Back to the arguement... the TL is fast. It's not a street racing car, and who cares about the quarter mile in a SEDAN? When you put your foot to the pedal, you will be propelled forward at a satisfying pace, just like any other car with power. The differences in this area of performance are miniscule that to argue if a car is better or not, you are forced to look at the extras. You are forced to take into account the luxury accomodations and the reliability. That's the whole friggin' point. Sure, you even mentioned that you needed to tune your car to make it into what you wanted it to be - how about a car that is more like what you need it to be as it comes stock? Can you catch my drift?

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Halx

I also pray to the Gods who do not exist that you are able to detect which parts of that post are sarcasm and which are not.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Gimli

Ech... I'm tired of this. On second thought, I gave accolades to the TL on the "Hal's the Boss" premise. Sorry. I'm embarassed. Egos; not cars are in question here.

This does seem to be a 21-year-olds' conversation. I almost always avoid these and wish I had now.

Have a couple of children and see how much of your soul and 'datability' you project into a FWD Honda.

Guy buys car. Guy likes car. Guy bashes many people from beneath the shadow of car. Guy argues with many more people from under the car. Guy looks like dork. Jeesh. Get a gold chain and a toupee. Or maybe try something more important.

Halx

*mourns Gimli*

Poor fella... read too much into it and got frustrated. It wasn't supposed to end this way!!

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

madsenj37

Everything in the car seems to be awesome except the front wheel drive. It was either Car and Driver or Road and Track that picked the automatic version over the stick because of too much power to the front wheels. Im glad you like it, cause that would drive me nuts.

As for Mazda's, I thik their great, but that aside, your not making a fair comparison. The base price for a Mazda 6 is way under the TL. In fact the base TL price is more than than the base RX-8. The Mazda 6 is not marketed against Acura. Its marketed against Honda and Toyota. Acura TLs are marketed at 3 series BMWs and C Class Mercedes,

__________________
"Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe."
-- Albert Einstein

matteo101

And definetly NOT marketed against muscle cars...and other forms of domestic competitors.

Halx

right madsenj37, I wasn't the one who made the original comparison. It was in another thread.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

bookerV

Meh, I think the TL is a very nice car. I wouldn't say its the best car ever, but its a good car. I would definitely consider it if I were going to buy a new car. But I happen to like sporty sedans. That being said, I don't think it has enough personality to make me go "wow" when I see one.

So my vote is: good car. Not perfect for me. Glad its perfect for Halx, because he owns one

__________________
"That's why you're the judge and I'm the law-talking guy."

Lionel Hutz

silent_jay

I have to agree with Hal on this. From what I've seen and from what I've read about the TL they seem to be the best car for the money. And no I'm not agreeing with Hal because he's the boss that's just lame, if he'd said "Why the 96 Camaro is the pinnacle of automotive perfection!" I would have disagreed with him in a second.

I think this was taken care of already, and wasn't there a thread on this heap?

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

primal

Here's a link to a site that shows the depreciation ratings for various cars. Of all the cars you mentioned the G35 has the highest resale value.

Personally having driven the TL, BMW 3-series, and the G35(coupe). I love them all. But once you've really explored RWD, FWD cars feel handicapped. I think that's why the TL loses reviews. If you are a driving enthusiast and have owned a well balanced RWD sports car, then you know what I'm talking about.

I'm probably a bit biased (I own a 300ZX TwinTurbo) but I think I'd take the G35(coupe).

bad30th

Well, I'm going to go ahead and take your first two paragraphs as sarcasm.....especially that "successful" part.....

And as far as going fast, no. I'm talking about real racing, not drag racing. I had to do the clutch on my car, but once its broken in, I'll be racing the shit out of it at actual racing events (AutoX and Road courses probably 3 to 4 weekends a month). Thats what I mean when I say I race my car and that going fast is my passion. I'm not some idiot highway racer and stoplight champion. Anyone can go fast in their car in a straight line and take it up as high as it'll go on the freeway or whatever. Highway racing is for idiots and top speed doesnt mean shit. And by the way, I hope you are not spouting off your top speed because your speedometer goes that high..... Drag Limited. When you hit that 165 in stock trim, go ahead and let me know.

And as far as me needing to tune my car to make it into what I want it to be....well ya. Youre right. EVERY automotive entusiast would tune ANY car they own and love. Theres something to be said for doing a little work yourself and making your car your own, making it into something better for you. Shit I seem to remember reading somewhere in one of your posts that you're thinking about some new wheels and lowering the TL a little bit. I say more power to you.

And I love how since this thread isnt everyone holding hands and singing songs, but actual discussion and debate, people are so quick to jump in with "I usually stay out of these 21 yr old conversations," and "This thread turned to shit," etc. Guess what....we're still talking about the TL, the thread has just expanded a little. So fucking what.

But now that silent_jay is here, I better go.....I'm wrong any way you look at it now.