kurty[B]

I've been doing some car shopping lately, and yesterday I decided to check out some dealerships to see if they'd be willing to work with me and my lack of a credity history on getting a vehicle and auto financing.

I hate salespeople to begin with, well at least pushy salespeople, and it's even worse with used car dealers. I went to an Acura dealership cause I was interested in Legends (knew I probably wouldn't find one in my price range at the dealership, but still wanted to look; wrong idea). I walked around their new lot unmolested looking at the various cars they had (not impressed, and noticed everything seemed marked up $2K more than it could've possibly been worth).

Went to an older lot to walk around that one, and 4-5 salespeople were waiting out front like vultures, and as soon as I stepped out of the car, not even twenty seconds later there's one right there asking me what I'm looking for. I tell him "I want a Jeep Wrangler, Toyota Pick-Up/Tacoma, or Acura Legend within $7-9K price range with payments in the $150-180/mnth range". So, we hop in this POS Nissan Sentra with a big $8499 on the front windshield, and drive off to another lot owned by that dealership. I know then that this is going to be a long and painful day, and the vehicle we were in was going to be a last ditch sales effort by the salesperson, cause he really isn't listening to a damn word I say.

I had already seen all the cars I was initially interested in at the first lot, and they all had fading colour, torn up interiors, or WAY too many miles for me to be interested, and still above my price range (cause of $2K+ mark ups), and I tried to explain this, but did not stop the man from showing me every vehicle on the lot (in the $10-15K range). After an hour and a half of shooting down attempts like "How about a Miata?" or "220K miles really isn't that much for this car I'm sure it'll get another 100K out of it, definitely" (I wanted to say FUCK YOU at that statement but resisted, cause I'm too nice).

Back at his office, he went and talked to the financing guys, and comes back "Oh, I have a Truck to show you, it's in service getting new brakes, but let's go see it". Another drive to another building. Given it was a nice truck, but a '99 Toyota Tacoma with everything I'd ever want in an off-road vehicle and under 60K miles. I told him "This has got to be at least $12-13K, that's got to be more than I can handle!" Course, he either had extremely selective hearing or thought I was a porn star that was just going to bend over and take it in the ass.

Back to his table, on the drive over there guess what "What do you think about this vehicle we're driving". "No, don't like Sentras!" Not only that, but I could hear the problems that car already had, brakes going, belts either loose, or in need of changing, engine definitely not sounding like it should. He tries to hit on the positive points of the car, and I continue. "Family member had one, windows kept falling off tracks, I'm not interested in this car!" At his table he brings me an offer on this Truck that I was not interested in "$14999 with payments of $389/mnth"... "NO, way too much" Repeat to him my initial offer I'd been saying all day... Comes back "well, with $4K down we can get a payment of $199/mnth". "I don't have $4K to put down". And this went on well past the sun going down (I wanted to look at other cars DURING sunlight hours rather than haggle about cars I did not want). This went back and forth back and forth, till dude went and got either the owner of the dealership, or head sales rep (old man sporting tons of "BLING"). I was rather sick of being there, and I'm sure they noticed my faces of disgust while they weren't sitting there, and my attempts of "Just call me when you get one of these three vehicles in under $10K!" Old man used everything from "You need a car to drive, don't you want to practice your right to drive, or you want to walk everywhere for the rest of your life". "I'm' doing just fine bumming rides, and borrowing friend's cars, and walking at the moment sir, look at how good shape I'm in compared to your shapely figure!" Not sure how he took that comment he tossed out a fake salesmen laugh, still trying to bend me over. After some pointless attempts to continue dropping price, but still fail to satisfy MY needs I finally got out of there.

Now... Fuck dealerships, I'm gonna stick with dealing with People to People sales, least they don't lie as much, and they generally give me the opportunity to drive the car for the day or night, and do compression tests, and various checks on every aspect of the car, and they aren't high pressuring me into buying that vehicle that day. I realize used car dealership peeps are simply trying to get their commission check, but why must they refuse to listen to the customer, and continue to try and sell that person something they can't afford, don't you think I've already spent time figuring out what I can afford, what loans/loan rates I can handle if I specifically say I can only afford $150-180 and a vehicle in the $7K-9K range, and I even have a vehicle type in mind. Couldn't he have just said "Well, I have this this and this, in this this and this price, all of which is higher than what you want, sorry, if we get something in that range I'll give you a call". If he had done that, at some point in the future I'd LOVE to do business with them again. Instead, there's NO NO chance of me even going back there again, even if I want a new vehicle.

No more dealerships for me UNLESS I'm shopping for a NEW vehicle, and even then by the time I'm ready to buy new, I'm sure ordering vehicles off the internet will be perfected, and the dealership experience will practically be cut out of the whole deal. I can't wait for such a day!

Anyone else have awful dealership salespeople experiences (or even awful salesperson experiences). How do you deal with them? Just wait for them to get the point, yell at them? What?? Nothing seemed to work for me???

SecretMethod70

My manager just bought a used car (practically new, under 30k miles) and I couldn't possibly remember to recount all the different things he told me. He's probably one of the smartest shoppers I know, and it was no different in this case. He went to dozens of dealerships over many weeks as he searched. Probably one of the most important things he told me is this: always remember that there are more cars like it out there and there will always be. He was closed on many many times and never bought until he was absolutely positive. Just like you, he had a price range going in and he stuck to it and that's a very good thing.

Another thing he learned is NEVER go into a dealership without an appointment with a salesperson already set. And, when setting that appointment, what he did was call the delaership and spoke to the receptionist - who is more likely than not unbiased - and asked to speak to the most experienced and nicest sales rep they have. That's who he set up appointments with and since he started doing that he very rarely had a bad experience at the dealerships.

He also always asked the sales reps questions such as 'how long have you been working here?" What he found was that the average length a car salesperson spends at a dealership is 3 months. That's not enough to learn ANYTHING - about cars OR being a good sales rep. So, he always dealt with people who had been around for awhile - the best people he dealt with tended to have been with the dealership for over 10 years. There was a guy at a BMW dealership he went to (out of his price range but why not look ) that had been there for 30 years - and it showed. The amazing thing is that he had been at that dealership the shortest of all the sales reps there.

As far as the sales reps he got like the one you experienced - before he started asking all these questions - he'd let the management know how he felt and a lot of times when he went back to the dealership those sales reps were no longer there

One thing I know personally is that I'm glad I have a good relationship with my manager, cause when I get a car there's no way I'm doing it without consulting with him.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

nirol

Dont be shy of dealerships, just do all your homework first. The dealership may be able to sell for a lower price than a private owner is willing to accept, they get the cars on trade-in usually. This means they buy wholesale, and like to sell retail, your objective is to buy as close to wholesale as possible.
Look up the price for the vehicle you would like, know what the problems for that model are, and take any top prospects to a mechanic to check out. The guys at the dealership are just trying to make as much money for as little effort as possible ( I do the same at my job). They dont know anything more about the vehicle than you most likely, assume the worst and thoroughly examine the car. Go to your credit union or bank and get pre-approved for financing, negotiate with the dealership on the bottom line, not monthly payments. Try shopping towards the end of the month, salespeople are paid based on commision and units sold, every month the dealership has to pay for financing the cars on the lot, so they have incentive to reach down a bit.
The gold NADA book of used car prices is a good guide, prices are more "real time" than Kelley's or Edmunds.
Good Luck

__________________
'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)

empu

This may sound harsh, but you really just let them walk all over you. They controlled the situation and you let them waste your time. I congratulate you (honestly) for not making a purchase out of sheer frustration.

As the above posters said, dealerships are not automatically evil. You may pay a little more than a person to person sale, but depending on the laws of your area you may be protected by lemon laws, so it may be worth it. Take the $2K markup you saw with a grain of salt -- that's more like their "sucker price". They'll sell most of their cars for a negotiated price well below that.

Do your homework, know which cars you want, know the blue book value range for each, and be prepared to walk immediately if a dealer tries to push you towards a car or price that isn't what you're looking for.

And that's the key: Be prepared to walk immediately. This will require being downright rude in some circumstances. The worst salespeople are counting on the fact that you won't be rude. This is part of their game. Rise above it. Call them on it. Take a friend with you if you need help pulling the rip cord.

I recommend not giving up on dealerships just so you can practice getting better at dealing with their various sales tactics. It's a good life lesson.

phaedrus

I used to sell cars, second worst job ever. The worst job ever is the poor bastard who has to clean the outhouses in Joshua Tree National park.

$7-9k is a really bad price range for cars. You can either get what was a good car with over 100k miles or what was always a POS with 50k miles. My advice to you, get a beater car you can pay cash (~$1000) for and not have to worry about either a dealership or auto loan. Drive the car into the ground then throw it away when you are done. While you are driving that car, save the money you have budgeted for the auto loan and use if as a significant down payment on a new moderately priced car .(civic or corolla would get my endorsement, though you can get a moderately equiped new chevy cavalier for ~10k.) This will let you get a better car, and help you with financing. If the only thing wrong with your credit is lack of credit, a good sized down payment will help get you approved and lower your interest rate.

BTW, about your credit, do you have any? How do you know it may be an issue? Have you had your credit ran? If not, I would contact the beaurus and get a copy of your credit report so you know what you are dealing with. Let me know what is on it, any loans, credit cards, limits, late payments, etc... and I can let you know what you should be able to expect in loan structure for auto financing.

Things to remember when dealing with auto dealerships:
*You (the customer) control the money.
*That makes you in charge.
*You can leave when you want.
*Don't waste your time getting figures on a car you don't want.
*There is no such thing as the right price on the wrong car.
*Monthly payment does not matter; price, interest rate, and term of the loan matter. Once they are set, the monthly payment will take care of itself. Do not negotiate monthly payment, stick to the price of the car and force the dealership to disclose the interest rate.
*Kelly Blue Book doesn't mean shit to anyone except the banks. KBB estimates high for both retail and wholesale book. That means, just because a dealership advertises a car under book, does not mean the car has been discounted or is competitively priced. KBB wholesale prices matter for financing because that is what banks work with to determine loan structures. Depending on credit/loan program they will finance between 50-150% of wholesale book.
*Never buy a dealership's extended warranty they arn't worth the paper they are printed on. Every manufacturer offers extended warranties, if you want one longer warranty, buy a manufacturer extended warranty. (No first perfered, portfolio, first extended etc, instead, Honda Care, GMC, Toyota, etc...)
*Never buy the paint and fabric protection, all they do is wax and scotch guard your car, you can do that yourself for $20, save yourself the hundreds of dollars the dealership will try to charge you.

kurty[B]

Thanks for the info. I was definitely too nice and patient with the salesperson (I'm a rather patient person in general, should've realized he was wasting my time and left when I first had a chance though; surprised he didn't get the hint when he walked to grab the keys for some car I wasn't interested in and I started walking back to the lot where my car was parked out (one dealership with multiple car lots parked about half a mile away from each other, shoulda known it was going to be a fiasco).

I'm going to check out another dealership that lists their cars online sometime this week. They have quite a few cars that perfectly match my description, and are fairly priced. We'll see how it goes.

BigGov

Man, I feel for you. My family has lucked out. A new dealership started up a few years ago just a short drive from our house. The owner used to run a Saturn dealership, that translates into no-haggle, FAIR, pricing. The guys he hired are all extremely nice, they're all extremely helpful, they don't pressure you, and they help you find a car you actually like.

So, the moral of my story: look for Saturn dealers or former Saturn dealers.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

phaedrus

Just don't buy a Saturn.

Jam

yeah im buying a new car too... a new cavalier..

I went to look at this one dealership... (me being only 18) was completelt ignored (when inside the building, not simply roaming the lot) and actually had to chase down a salesperson to simply get a brochure... and then he walked away.. so being ignored at a dealership is also annoying... I am not going back there

I found another nice dealership (went with my dad) and the guy there was really nice, not pushy, and really helpful... He let me test drive it with out even checking if I had a liscence (and here we have a screwed up liscencing system where you cant even get a full liscence till your about 18).. we will be going back this week to get the car

SecretMethod70

oh yeah, and if you dress nicely for work or anything - don't go in wearing a tie and take off any nice watches etc that you have. Give an impression of someone who has the money for the price range you want but probably not much more.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

phaedrus

jam161

If you live in a metropolitan area, you should go online and contact the fleet/internet department of all the local chevy dealerships and request a quote for the exact car (model and features) you want to purchase. This is the easiest way to figure the lowest price your area will sell one for. Hell, even if you don't live in a metropolitan area, you should still do this, but it is extremely effective in the Bay Area and LA, you will end up at or under invoice before rebates. Once you have the quotes, contact the salesperson you liked and see if he can match the best offer, if he can go to him and buy it, if not (which is a good possibility) then go to the person who made you the offer and buy it.

side note: The offer should include the VIN of the car (or it is worthless) and price of the car including destination and all fees. The offer might be "plus fees," in which case you should get a break down in writing of the fees before you go into the dealership.

This is why it is easier to buy a new car than a used.

If you want me to look over any offers you recieve, let me know and I will make sure everything is on the up and up.

aurigus

If you are interested in car dealerships check out this Edmunds.com article on this guy who got an undercover job as a salesman. The article is very long, but a good read.

If you dont want to read the whole thing, the one piece of advice I got out of it is to go to a site like carsdirect.com to get your car if you are looking to save money. It's no haggle, you just go and pick up your car. Of course there are snags sometimes, but its almost always cheaper and usually easier.

When I got my first new car I was lucky enough to have the cash to pay for it flat out. This gives you a good deal of bargaining power. We actually ended up getting a small loan on it to get a $1000 incentive. Worked out pretty well. The thing I did to work the price down is to work two dealerships off each other. They both want the sale, so as long as they dont know who the other one is, they will outbid each other.

I felt like a pimp that day, they kept calling me on my cell phone as I was driving around, offering me lower and lower prices

Frowning Budah

My sister is a killer shopper. She isn't swayed by salesmanship or emotion. She has a clear idea of what she wants and what she wants to pay. She goes in tells them what she wants and what she wants to pay then she walks out. No bargaining no nothing. Several times they have told her no way can they sell it to her for that price only to call her back a couple of weeks later and give it to her at her price.
I don't why dealers are so bad about playing the game. Like I told the guy that I bought my last car from, "I come from a big family with lots of Friends, you treat me fairly and you will get lots of business, you rip me off and we will bad mouth you dealership to anyone who will listen". Don't know if it worked, but I am still driving the 1990 I paid cash for 6 years ago.