Moonduck

Slick as, well, heck.

(Don't feel right saying "Slick as Hell" about a bike named the "YHWH")

Here's their site: Amen Motorcycles

BooRadley

That is a great chopper! I think it needs a fender though, a tire next to my back would get disconcerting

Cynthetiq

not to mention each time you went through any water you'd get a stripe right down your back and that doesn't look so cool.

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bundy

that scares me.
i mean, that exposed back wheel is positively deadly.
that chain also scares me.
i doubt i´d have the guts to get on that chopper.

but i gotta add, it does look sexy as hell.

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BooRadley

Man,it has a monoshock swingarm rear suspension ( I guess you harley guys call em "softails") which is usually unheard of in choppers. The wheels are ugly but the bike looks like an absolute shark. Thanks for the pic, duck

Moonduck

Check out the site. The whole thing is just freaky. Honestly, it's not my bag at all, as I'm more into minimalist bikes, but it's just so damned wild that I had to post it.

Oh, you see Slushtails on choppers. Bourget makes a whole line of 'em as do a few other Studio Chopper builders (OCC had put out a few, all the bigger frame builders make Slushy frames, Yaffe puts 'em, Ness just made one that popped up in a mag). It's the hard-core old school crowd that tends to dog Slushies. Personally, I think it's a cool idea, but I want a rigid. It's a chopper, it ain't 'sposed to be comfy.

BooRadley

I've seen some cool off-the-wall choppers .. if you have heard of the inline 6 CBX , I saw a really cool chopper from europe with the CBX 1100 plant, custom frame, really cool as the straight six is pretty intimidating. It didn't have the trim of most $50k choppers, but it would be amazing to the CBX engine chromed out. I'll try to find a pic for it.

Moonduck

I recall an inline 6 in a full dresser, Honda I believe. Damn thing looked like a chrome picket fence from the front with all those pipes.

I'd like to see a CX650, Honda's transverse V-Twin shafty, chopped. Been looking for one of those for a while just to see what someone would do, though there is an interesting cafe CX locally. Almost bought one here recently. Wacky bikes.

I have looked at that CX650 set-up and thought about dropping a Wankel in it. Wait, better not get into Wankels again =)

BooRadley

Transverse V-twins are crazy. Of course, if you wanted a power chopper, you could do the infamous Kawasaki H2 two-stroke triple and make a bunch of noise and confuse people .

"Hey, what's that? A harley that sounds like a weedeater? It needs some new pipes"

acpower

That is fuckin' awesome

Moonduck

I've heard those H2 triples are torque-monsters, real tire-burners. Never actually seen one run though. Seems like everywhere I look it's Harleys and crotchrockets.

Snakebyt

thats a wild looking bike.. really long and low

BooRadley

I've seen a couple but never have had a close inspect. Supossedly you can get them up to 115 horsepower range without a problem, and can hit 140 with a race built motor. They have no torque whastoever lower than 8 grand, then it would hit you like a brick wall and you'd be wheelying it through some gears. Pretty impressive for an old bike.

Snoogans

Those are some fuckin cool bikes.
I'd love to have the kind of money to build something like that..

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Peryn

Wow...thats just plain scary.

Whoever mentioned the Rotary idea....i think i like that. Its a peaky motor to begin with, its small, light, could fit in the frame without too many problems....and its good for 160hp right outta the box...without smog controls, even more. Hmm.....sounds like it could be one badass bike if someone ever did go through with it.

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WarWagon

Problem with fitting a rotary on a bike is that it would be wider than piston motors, unless several small rotors were used.

Stare At The Sun

Are you sure that thing is finished, it is still on the table...

Perhaps they are about to put the rear fender on it..

Moonduck

Nope, check the site. The finished pics are up and still no fender.

As to the rotary being wide, the bike I mentioned putting it in a CX650, which is a tranverse V-twin to begin with. It already has a wide motor, a car-style transmission (ie a bell shaped tranny), and shaft drive. Is as car-like as you can get without actually putting a car engine in the bike. It also happens to be wide. The Mazda rotary isn't really all that big. If you convert the bike to rear controls and ride it crotchrocket-style, it would likely be out of the way.

Scary ride though =)

thadon

that bike is insane ... WOW

supafly

Nice one, seems a bit hard to steer with such a long wheelbase

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Moonduck

Not really. The only major problem is that it cannot lean as far as short wheelbase baikes can, so the turns aren't as tight. It should be more stable on the highway though.

Ride position looks uncomfortable as hell though.

RemyLebeau97

Kool but not quiet my style

tfin

No need to worry about injury from the tire or anything else, GOD WILL PROTECT THEM!

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BooRadley

There is a point to where you would have to lean too much to take a turn, and longer bikes have to lean much more to take a certain diameter radius turn at certain speeds.

I personally do not believe that this bike would be able to corner at any safe speed (ie, where cars aren't running you over)... the rake/trail is just too far off to be suited for actual roads...

So, this bike wins as the ultimate poseur bike, RUBS buy away!


In fact, the completed bike has no front brake control so the brakes must be linked from the rear pedal, which is stupid. This bike could never be roadworthy. Crazy fundamentalist rednecks trying to become engineers.

JusticeForPhat

under the category of "already did that" there were quite a few motorcycles with rotary engines in them.

1975 Suzuki RE-5
http://www.millville.org/Workshops_f...ls/suzuki.html

Also norton mad quite a few rotary powered bikes, some even twin rotor.

Here is the link to the sight:
http://www.millville.org/Workshops_f...torcycles.html

Moonduck

Look closer. It has a severely offset triple tree. Trail is measured by a line through the neck and a line dropped vertical through the hub. If you look at the side-on shots, rough guesstimate looks to me like live-able trail numbers. Now, a tree that offset introduces its' own problems with the front end moving side to side in order to turn, but the trail isn't likely to be an issue.

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So, this bike wins as the ultimate poseur bike, RUBS buy away!

Yeah, pretty much. While they claim it to be raide-able, and regardless of safety, it just looks so bloody uncomfortable that I don't think it would be ridden simply from that standpoint alone.

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the completed bike has no front brake control so the brakes must be linked from the rear pedal, which is stupid. This bike could never be roadworthy. Crazy fundamentalist rednecks trying to become engineers.

Why would it be stupid to link front and rear brakes? I mean, I wouldn't want to do it as like the added ability to control front and rear brake independently, but, realistically, in normal driving, both brakes are applied at the same time anyway. Frankly, I'm seeing linked brakes more and more these days. A lot of builders are going to it to clean up the bars. Exile pioneered the totally clean bar look that was copied on the YHWH with they're clutch being twist-controlled on the left grip much like the throttle, and the brakes being linked. Their linked systems are very streetable, and Exile builds enough of them that safety and liability aren't a concern.

As to "Crazy fundamentalist rednecks trying to be engineers", I think they probably either are engineers or have on-staff engineers. They're frames are well designed and well-made, and the normal ones have obviousl been designed for actual riding, unlike this obvious showpiece YHWH bike.

BooRadley

Just because they make bikes in any quantity doesn't mean they have engineers. I think motorcycle builders are pretty safe from litigation, as motorcycles are inheriantly more dangerous than cars, and rider error is the cause for a significant majority of accidents.

Let me list a several companies which do not have engineers but produce streetworthy bikes :

West Coast Choppers & Orange County choppers... ( West coast is trying to hire a mechanical engineer now, according to their site.. how often do you hear Paul Teutel go "Hey, call the engineer and ask him what the ultimate stress of our steering head is so we know how beefy to make it") ... and they DONT have engineers on staff... they don't need em. Any of tons of small chopper shops who build a frame with normal rigid geometry and put the rake 8 degrees over ( We have several here in Louisville ) don't have engineers and don't need em, they have tons of experience. It is possible to make a roadable bike at home... you just overbuild the hell out of it by using the strongest and thickest components availible and underpower it. If they were using anything but the overglorified harley lawnmower engines ( Harley engines : 130 hp in the most extreme race-gas state of tune ) then there would be some serious issues to deal with, namely, belt explosion and RUB squids trying to go faster than what they are able to handle. ( Honestly, how many people 25 or younger can afford to buy a $37,000 chopper? )

But... with YHWH you are dealing with a different breed of beast, and good thing it is not for public consumption.
99.9% of choppers built are based off some year Harley ridgid frame and they add in a wider tire and 4-8 degrees more of rake, and put in a 103 ci motor and that encompasses most every chopper ever made. Yes, it handles like shit compared to a van even, but it capable of handling on real roads. But eventually, one of these bikes (Like the YHWH ) is going to be released to the public , and it is so damn long that you have to scrape parts ( which would probably be a 20 degree lean with that thing). I mean, look at it, based on common sense.
The YHWH is unsafe because :
Extremely long... 10 feet? 11? Care to park it? Nope. I wouldn't.
Turning radius at any given speed for any given 2 wheeled vehicle is based on lean, speed, and length... I"ll put a link up to the site on my next post. That things turning radius is probably in the mile range. A longer bike has to lean more than a shorter bike.
Extremely low to the ground + extremely wide with the transmission and controls jutting out a foot and half... If I could find a few from the back I could probably calculate how far it could lean to a couple of degrees. My guess is 17 degrees before tearing off a $400 lever or bashing the transmission in. That might be able to take a turn 20 mph slower than any stock bike.

Linked brakes are good for RUBS. I agree completely. In my MSF, I was the only male there that hadn't ridden before the class. One guy who claimed to have rode for 3 years nearly broadsided my bike when he couldn't stop fast enough as he was only using the rear brake. This same guy failed the braking test several times, as HE WOULDN'T USE THE FRONT BRAKE FOR SHIT!!!!!!!!!!! Hell, I feel more uncomfortable using the rear brake as I'm afraid of locking it and high siding it....
I stopped , in the rain, in 14.8 feet, which would have passed in dry. These guys who drove their bikes to class even couldn't brake from 15 mph quickly. Sad. And they were beat on their brake test by 280 pound women who have never ridden before.

They should have engineers... but don't. You know another company that doesn't have engineers, but has sold a product for years and sells out every production bike they make? Here is their site :
www.bosshoss.com ... Designed by a Tenesseee mechanic.

Moonduck

There's a major difference between Amen and Joe Builder. They ae primarily a frame producer, not a bike builder. They are in business to design and sell frames. That generally means MSO's, safety inspections, and ugly liability lawsuits if their designs go tits up.

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Let me list a several companies which do not have engineers but produce streetworthy bikes : West Coast Choppers & Orange County choppers... ( West coast is trying to hire a mechanical engineer now, according to their site.. how often do you hear Paul Teutel go "Hey, call the engineer and ask him what the ultimate stress of our steering head is so we know how beefy to make it") ... and they DONT have engineers on staff... they don't need em. Any of tons of small chopper shops who build a frame with normal rigid geometry and put the rake 8 degrees over ( We have several here in Louisville ) don't have engineers and don't need em, they have tons of experience.

Can't say about WCC as I don't know for certain, but I know that OCC doesn't generally build frames. They order from Paughco, Santee, or some other major name that does have an engineer on staff. Any good frame builder otu there will refuse to build to a customer's specs if they know that the frame will not work. It's their asses on the line if it fails. Those small builders you mentioned usually don't make their own frames in production either. I know a few that do, and I am speaking of generalities, but most shops are using bought frames, perhaps with modifications.

There are shops and builders that build frames without the benefit of engineering experience, and I have no beef with them. Hell, I'm having a custom frame built for my CB750 (I am not bold enough to trust my ass to my welding skills), and the builder is in no way an engineer. All I know is that I like his designs, I've heard good testimonials, and the all the other details are in line with what I want (price, quality of material, timeframe, made to my overall design and application needs, etc).

You seem to be thinking that I am of the opinion that all builders show have an engineer on staff. I'm not and I am not sure why you're arguing in that direction. I am of the opinion that all Frame Producers should have engineering support or staff though. It only makes sense.

8 degrees over? That ain't rake. That's just metal flexion =P

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It is possible to make a roadable bike at home... you just overbuild the hell out of it by using the strongest and thickest components availible and underpower it. If they were using anything but the overglorified harley lawnmower engines ( Harley engines : 130 hp in the most extreme race-gas state of tune ) then there would be some serious issues to deal with, namely, belt explosion and RUB squids trying to go faster than what they are able to handle. ( Honestly, how many people 25 or younger can afford to buy a $37,000 chopper? )

Yup, and I am building a roadbike at home from a '74 Honda CB750.

And Harleys are over-glorified lawnmower engines. How expensive are those 140hp engines? Gimme a break. I can buy a whole bike for that kind of money, and it'll produce better numbers stock.

As to RUBs going faster than they can handle, you can do that on a 125cc dirt bike. It ain't the bike, it's the ride. Every time. Example being I will never plant ass on a 'Busa. I ain't good enough to play with one of those. I know my limits.

Oh yeah, $37k is waaaay low for a chopper these days. While you can find a nice bike for $10-20k, you are generally looking for $60-120k and up for the really serious stuff. The local guy what sells Bourget bikes usually has models from about $40-60k, and he's doing low-end mass production so his bikes come in costing less than you would expect given what they are.

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But... with YHWH you are dealing with a different breed of beast, and good thing it is not for public consumption. 99.9% of choppers built are based off some year Harley ridgid frame and they add in a wider tire and 4-8 degrees more of rake, and put in a 103 ci motor and that encompasses most every chopper ever made.

4-8 degrees? Hunh? That YHWH has around 30 degrees more rake. 4-8 degrees is almost unnoticeable, and more in the realm of what an offset tree produces. I would also go with about 70-75% of choppers made, and that is only accurate if you look at the current crop of choppers. Back in the 70's, Hondas, Triumphs, BSA's, etc were chopped as often as Harleys were. Those same Trumps, Beezers, and Hondas are still getting chopped nowadays too, there's just more HD's in the chopper world. The other problem is that you are using a big, big engine in that claim. Most HD choppers aren't running a Buck.

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Yes, it handles like shit compared to a van even, but it capable of handling on real roads. But eventually, one of these bikes (Like the YHWH ) is going to be released to the public , and it is so damn long that you have to scrape parts ( which would probably be a 20 degree lean with that thing). I mean, look at it, based on common sense.

Common sense doesn't always equate, much like my earlier comments on how trail looks like it might just be acceptable with that design. That lean is gonna be crazy though (especially on the left side where that godawful HD primary sticks out like a sore nut)...

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The YHWH is unsafe because : Extremely long... 10 feet? 11? Care to park it? Nope. I wouldn't. Turning radius at any given speed for any given 2 wheeled vehicle is based on lean, speed, and length... I"ll put a link up to the site on my next post. That things turning radius is probably in the mile range. A longer bike has to lean more than a shorter bike. Extremely low to the ground + extremely wide with the transmission and controls jutting out a foot and half... If I could find a few from the back I could probably calculate how far it could lean to a couple of degrees. My guess is 17 degrees before tearing off a $400 lever or bashing the transmission in. That might be able to take a turn 20 mph slower than any stock bike.

Okay, it's not unsafe for those reasons. Unsafe means the bike will have a higher chance of incident resulting in injury or death for the rider. The length isn't unsafe, it's unwieldy. Most cars are around 15-20', a good bit longer than that bike. Yes, it is longer, and thus harder to park, than a normal bike. Harder to park does not translate into higher incidence of injury though. The lean issue, while important, is also not a safety issue. Sure, you cannot lean as far, but that means you will have to take corners slower. Same can be said for people that ride vintage bikes or vintage cars. You accept certain limitations when you choose to operate niche vehicles. Also, look at the design. There aren't any levers to rip off. You go straight to trashing your $3000 custom primary instead of some $400 lever. Whee.

You're being nice in only saying 20mph.

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Linked brakes are good for RUBS. I agree completely. In my MSF, I was the only male there that hadn't ridden before the class. One guy who claimed to have rode for 3 years nearly broadsided my bike when he couldn't stop fast enough as he was only using the rear brake. This same guy failed the braking test several times, as HE WOULDN'T USE THE FRONT BRAKE FOR SHIT!!!!!!!!!!! Hell, I feel more uncomfortable using the rear brake as I'm afraid of locking it and high siding it.... I stopped , in the rain, in 14.8 feet, which would have passed in dry. These guys who drove their bikes to class even couldn't brake from 15 mph quickly. Sad. And they were beat on their brake test by 280 pound women who have never ridden before.

I haven't taken the MSF yet. I will be doing so either late this year or start of next year. I've been riding bikes since I was 6 and never had an M designation. I figure that getting back into riding after a coupla years off, I should probably go ahead and finally ride legally. I have kids now and would hate to get busted for riding without an M license.

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They should have engineers... but don't. You know another company that doesn't have engineers, but has sold a product for years and sells out every production bike they make? Here is their site : www.bosshoss.com ... Designed by a Tenesseee mechanic.

Those bikes are, quite simply, insane. Yet another motorcycle I would never put my ass on.

BooRadley

Ugh. I just have to vent at the RUB influx as it makes everyone think they can sell a $500 bike for $2000 . Problem is, they get away with it. I know a guy who bought an 83 or so KZ550 for $3500. There is no KZ550 in the world worth $3500, but it seems the market gets worse and worse as time goes on. Harley doesn't meet demand and everyone and their mother wants in on it, and while it is good for motorcycles in general, it is bad for people my age to get into the hobby in general.

I've been actively looking for a decent used bike for 8 months, and the only one I've actually saw offered at a fair price was a CB400 with an automatic transmission... althought it was dirt cheap, the price accurately reflected such a bike in worn condition and with such as shitty combination of options.... ( 2 cylinder, automatic... basically a large scooter )... but there was no way in hell I would buy it. I wouldn't want any automatic bike , and the only one I would even consider is one of the CB750As as they have torquey enough of an engine to handle it.

The rest of the shit I've seen up for sale? Harleys starting at $8k, abused and worn out UJMs for $1000, high mileage UJMs but cosmetically perfect for $2500 ( I wonder if some of these sellers have been to a dealership in the last 10 years , as nobody is going to buy their bike because they can buy a new one for $1000 more in some cases !!!!!) , and tons of sportsbikes ( which I have no interest for as I'm realistic and insurance would kill me if I didn't kill myself ).
Ugh....

Moonduck

I've had no problem finding bikes. Picked up a '74 CB750K for $100, cosmetically rough, and non-running, but all it really needs is some electrical work and beauty help. Got a non-running '82 CB650SC for nothing. Cleaned the carbs and it fired right up. Actually paid money for a '92 CB250 so I could have something cheap on gas and something for the wife to ride.

I can find bikes all day long. I just don't have the space for 'em. Hell, I know of a beautiful running '75 CB750 that the owner wants $1200 for. If I had the space (and if my wife wouldn't kill me for buying yet another bike), I'd own it. I want it rather badly too.

Harley's just aren't worth it. Too expensive and you don't get much for it. Heck, you buy a new Sportster for what people want for a used Sportster. Makes no sense. It's one of the big reasons why I like UJM's so much. They're cheaper, by far, easy to work on, and bullet-proof engineering.

I feel sorry for your friend paying that much for a KZ550. It's a dull bike, nothing special, and worth nowhere near that much in general. I have seen KZ900's that I'd pay that much for though.

As an aside, I spent a few enjoyable hours last night tearing apart a seized Yamaha XS650 motor that I picked up for $20. I haven't gotten the side covers off to see what is keeping the trans seized up, but the top-end is rebuildable. I'm not going to as I can find a better example of the breed to build a bike around, but it is right fun to tear it apart just to see how it was made.

Beautiful maching and engineering on those engines, like pretty much all of the Japanese mills.

BooRadley

Man, I just need to start going around and knocking on peoples doors and asking if they have a bike to sell. Because nobody is selling anything decent in cycletrader or the newspaper for cheap. Tommorow I'm gonna respond to some ads , maybe get a look at 76 CB750F and a 84 Magna. The 750 sounds wrecked based on the ad. The magna for $1200???? It better be in showroom condition.

Moonduck

Magna's aren't bad bikes. I'm not familiar enough with the values on them to know how much they go for though. As to finding bikes, I see 'em in the paper, see 'em on the side of the road. See 'em on the net. They're everywhere around here. Then again I live in Virginia, so there's not a heavy rust problem here. Old bikes and old cars tend to last fairly well compared to places that salt their roads.

GSRIDER

Although I have yet to read this entire thread I want to chime in on the "custom" aspect of OCC

Sure they "add" alot to a bike to make it look good, but those guys are far from custom builders. They ship everything off to be made. Hell all they're doing is putting a bike together out of parts that come in a box.

And as far as finding good cheap used bikes... hell they're a dime a dozen.... ok more like a grand. But you get get a helluva bike for a $1000. It helps if you know a bit about bike maintenance.

I gotta a guy right now who wants to sell a 72 (?) honda scrambler (the one with the cool perferated pipe covers) he'll dump it for $600. Needs a coil.

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Moonduck

Those Scramblers are great lil bikes. Love the way those pipes look. I'd love to find one cheap.