2000 VW Jetta problem. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Superbelt · 08-26-2006, 03:06 PM

A couple weeks ago I was driving home from work and my car was entirely unresponsive.
I would hit the gas and the car would rev, but the power wouldn't quickly translate to movement.
I would get up to speed, but it would take about 30 seconds to get up to 10 mph. And it would be very slow getting up to travelling speed.
The next morning I was taking it to my brother to work on it, but as I was driving the acceleration cut out. The engine continued to run, but I was losing speed. When I stopped, the engine quit on me.
I was hearing a shallow tinny noise towards the back of the engine during this problem.
The car hasn't started since.

Things we have done to try and fix the problem:
Changed the cam position sensor
New mass airflow sensor
New ignition coil
New ignition wires
New spark plugs
Tried to set timing multiple times
I have good fuel pressure and good spark

Checked the camshaft, it is solid and works well
Both ends of the crank spin together

No engine compression in all 4 cylinders. But the Cam is intact and both ends of the crank move.

Also: I did replace the timing belt and tensioner about a month before this happened.

Any ideas on what we need to try next?

DEI37 · 08-26-2006, 03:16 PM

What engine do you have in it?

Sounds like a timing belt broke. Or, the water pump froze up, and shredded the timing belt. Either way, you've got a lot of work ahead of you. If the timing belt broke, you're in for head work, as well. Some of the valves will be bent.

If you used an aftermarket timing belt & tensioner (it is HIGHLY advisable to replace both, not just the belt) that was your first mistake. We've seen aftermarket belts stretch faster and further than ANY Genuine VW belt.

It is also advisable to replace the water pump while you're in there. It is timing belt driven, and prone to failure.

Superbelt · 08-26-2006, 03:49 PM

The engine is a 4cyl 2.0 liter. Model is GLS

Timing belt is brand new, and we put the valve cover and cam gear back on about an hour ago. So, of course, I know the timing belt is just fine.

Timing Belt and tensioner, I bought from the VW dealership.

I actually already replaced the water pump too because it was leaking.

all parts have been genuine VW. The timing belt is still in new condition, its only been on the car for a month. the timing is set to the bently manual instructions for the vehicle. Everything rotates freely as it should for normal operation. There is no compression in any of the cyclinders.

DEI37 · 08-26-2006, 04:57 PM

OK. Thanks for that extra info. Now you've got me stumped. Having no compression is obviously a VERY bad thing. I'm gonna clarify, just so we're all clear...when you turn the engine over, the cam turns with it, right? NOT the sprocket, the cam itself.

You've got me a bit stumped. I also have to assume that the Check Engine light is not on, correct?

Also, kudos to you for using Genuine VW parts.

Superbelt · 08-26-2006, 05:07 PM

The cam sprocket spins the cam as it normally would.

When the car died, the check engine light gave us two codes on our ODB2.
Camshaft position sensor and Mass Airflow Sensor.

Now that we can't get the car to start, no new codes will show up, check engine won't show up.

shakran · 08-26-2006, 05:51 PM

did you check the valves after you got the 0 compression? Did you check your compression tester?

DEI37 · 08-26-2006, 05:57 PM

Yeah, I'm officially stumped. Having 0 compression in one cylinder is bad. Having 0 compression in all four holes is disastrous, I would think. I hate to say it, but you might end up tearing it down to find the problem.

Superbelt · 08-26-2006, 06:05 PM

I checked the compression gauge on my brothers camaro, it works perfectly. Is there a way to check the valves without tearing the head off. I already spent alot of money on parts, $40 is better in my pocket then for a head gasket that isnt needed. I took the valve cover off, the only visible parts are the cam and hydraulic lifters. Everything there looks to be in good working order. Maybe ill just have to suck it up and take the head off.

DEI37 · 08-26-2006, 07:39 PM

If you can get ahold of a boroscope, you might be able to see the underside of the valves, and see if they are bent. I find it odd that it would run well at all, then all of a sudden do this. The only thing that would make sense in that scenario is if the thing jumped time but a couple of teeth. You say you checked the belt, and it looked new, still. That kind of tells me that didn't jump time, though you never know. Double check the timing, find a boroscope, and see what you can see.

Superbelt · 08-27-2006, 11:35 AM

no boroscope, guess im gonna get to work tearing that head off, thanks for the Help

shakran · 08-27-2006, 04:59 PM

Short of someone drilling holes in the cylinder walls, the only thing I can think of that should cause zero compression is a bent/missing valve. The fact that it's happening in all four cylinders really does point to the timing belt as the culprit. You say you recently replaced the timing belt - - - was that preventative maintainence or was it because the old one broke? If a timing belt didn't break, it had to jump more than one tooth in order to get the valves messed up like that.

Superbelt · 08-27-2006, 05:14 PM

Replacing the timing belt was preventative maintenance. It's the first time the belt has been replaced in this car that I know of. I did it at about 105,000mi. The car is currently at 112,000mi.

We did make sure to get everything TDC when we installed the new Timing Belt.
Checked the notches throughout the installation.

*Sigh. I am terribly vexed.

Superbelt · 09-21-2006, 05:33 AM

Ok here's an update.

Took the head to a machine shop. All my valves were bent. There was no damage to the head itself. So that saved me from having to buy a whole new engine. Had to replace the valves and lifters though.
So $260 dollars later, I get to take my head home.

I have it bolted down now, haven't put the timing belt and hoses back on yet. Hopefully have that done by tomorrow.

We must have installed the timing belt 180 degrees off.
You live and you learn

duck0987 · 09-23-2006, 09:55 PM

If you haven't found it there is a DIY over at vw vortex for timing belts, if you where off 180 i assume you didn't do the mark and match method, have to look at your timing marks now.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2271429

CAVEMAN282 · 09-25-2006, 03:30 AM

I have a 1996 VW Jetta, I towed it in to the shop (VW Dealer) because died while sitting at a stop sign. No indications of a problem, no check engine light, no rough idling, no backfiring, just died. I tried starting it again, it tried to turn over but would start. I just got off the phone with the dealer, I was told that 3 of the 4 cylinders did not have compression, and that I would need a new engine. Does this sound right? The timing belt was fine, I had good fuel pressure, the distributor was clean and providing spark. Oh, this is a 2.0, Jetta GL. Any assistance would be great. Thanks.

3VWRA81HXTM060308

Superbelt · 10-22-2006, 02:20 PM

Further adventures with my car:

I've noticed this past week that my car has a very rough idle as soon as I start it. It stops after I feed gas and move the car a few feet. The vibrations only happen on a, for the most part, cold start. Check engine light came on not long after the vibrations started. I checkedd them.
My 3 codes are:
P1255: Engine coolant Temperature sensor short to ground
P0134pd: O2 sensor circuit no activity detected bank 1 sensor 1
P0302pd: Cylinder 2 minsfire detected

Whats going on? What do I need to do now?
-Mike

DEI37 · 10-22-2006, 05:31 PM

Probably needs a coolant temp sender, and a front oxygen sensor. The miss is up for grabs, though.

shakran · 10-22-2006, 09:21 PM

I'm gonna guess that cyl2 misfire has something to do with your crappy idle. Check the spark plug for proper gapping, and also check it for evidence of a mixture problem (which could be caused by the lack of 02 and coolant temp sensor, as the malfunction of these sensors will make the engine stay in closed loop all the time, making the mixture far too rich). I wouldn't be surprised if you end up replacing the spark plug due to fouling.

If I had to hazard a wild guess, it's the coolant sensor's short that caused the engine to go into closed loop mode, which dumped a shitload of fuel, fouling the spark plug, which then made the cylinder misfire, sending unburned/partially burned fuel into the exhaust manifold to foul the o2 sensor.

And Caveman, you're describing a classic timing belt break. You should not need an entirely new engine, just new valves, and possibly a new head if the damage is bad enough. Check into that - it's remotely possible the shop recommended a new engine because they can get it cheaper than a new head -- I doubt it, but who knows.

Borla · 10-23-2006, 03:41 PM

You said originally that you had a new ignition coil installed? Don't those have one coil per cylinder? Did you replace all four?

DEI37 · 10-23-2006, 07:37 PM

The 2.0 doesn't have coil on plug ignition. The distributor is done away with, thankfully, but there still are problem areas in the ignition system.

omega48038 · 08-19-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Ok here's an update.

Took the head to a machine shop. All my valves were bent. There was no damage to the head itself. So that saved me from having to buy a whole new engine. Had to replace the valves and lifters though.
So $260 dollars later, I get to take my head home.

I have it bolted down now, haven't put the timing belt and hoses back on yet. Hopefully have that done by tomorrow.

We must have installed the timing belt 180 degrees off.
You live and you learn

Quote: Further adventures with my car:

I've noticed this past week that my car has a very rough idle as soon as I start it. It stops after I feed gas and move the car a few feet. The vibrations only happen on a, for the most part, cold start. Check engine light came on not long after the vibrations started. I checkedd them.
My 3 codes are:
P1255: Engine coolant Temperature sensor short to ground
P0134pd: O2 sensor circuit no activity detected bank 1 sensor 1
P0302pd: Cylinder 2 minsfire detected

Whats going on? What do I need to do now?
-Mike

take it to someone who knows what they're doing

08-26-2006, 03:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	2000 VW Jetta problem. A couple weeks ago I was driving home from work and my car was entirely unresponsive. I would hit the gas and the car would rev, but the power wouldn't quickly translate to movement. I would get up to speed, but it would take about 30 seconds to get up to 10 mph. And it would be very slow getting up to travelling speed. The next morning I was taking it to my brother to work on it, but as I was driving the acceleration cut out. The engine continued to run, but I was losing speed. When I stopped, the engine quit on me. I was hearing a shallow tinny noise towards the back of the engine during this problem. The car hasn't started since. Things we have done to try and fix the problem: Changed the cam position sensor New mass airflow sensor New ignition coil New ignition wires New spark plugs Tried to set timing multiple times I have good fuel pressure and good spark Checked the camshaft, it is solid and works well Both ends of the crank spin together No engine compression in all 4 cylinders. But the Cam is intact and both ends of the crank move. Also: I did replace the timing belt and tensioner about a month before this happened. Any ideas on what we need to try next?

08-26-2006, 03:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	What engine do you have in it? Sounds like a timing belt broke. Or, the water pump froze up, and shredded the timing belt. Either way, you've got a lot of work ahead of you. If the timing belt broke, you're in for head work, as well. Some of the valves will be bent. If you used an aftermarket timing belt & tensioner (it is HIGHLY advisable to replace both, not just the belt) that was your first mistake. We've seen aftermarket belts stretch faster and further than ANY Genuine VW belt. It is also advisable to replace the water pump while you're in there. It is timing belt driven, and prone to failure. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised. Last edited by DEI37; 08-26-2006 at 03:19 PM..

08-26-2006, 03:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	The engine is a 4cyl 2.0 liter. Model is GLS Timing belt is brand new, and we put the valve cover and cam gear back on about an hour ago. So, of course, I know the timing belt is just fine. Timing Belt and tensioner, I bought from the VW dealership. I actually already replaced the water pump too because it was leaking. all parts have been genuine VW. The timing belt is still in new condition, its only been on the car for a month. the timing is set to the bently manual instructions for the vehicle. Everything rotates freely as it should for normal operation. There is no compression in any of the cyclinders. Last edited by Superbelt; 08-26-2006 at 04:16 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

08-26-2006, 04:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	OK. Thanks for that extra info. Now you've got me stumped. Having no compression is obviously a VERY bad thing. I'm gonna clarify, just so we're all clear...when you turn the engine over, the cam turns with it, right? NOT the sprocket, the cam itself. You've got me a bit stumped. I also have to assume that the Check Engine light is not on, correct? Also, kudos to you for using Genuine VW parts. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-26-2006, 05:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Yeah, I'm officially stumped. Having 0 compression in one cylinder is bad. Having 0 compression in all four holes is disastrous, I would think. I hate to say it, but you might end up tearing it down to find the problem. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-26-2006, 05:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	The cam sprocket spins the cam as it normally would. When the car died, the check engine light gave us two codes on our ODB2. Camshaft position sensor and Mass Airflow Sensor. Now that we can't get the car to start, no new codes will show up, check engine won't show up.

08-26-2006, 05:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	did you check the valves after you got the 0 compression? Did you check your compression tester?

08-26-2006, 06:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I checked the compression gauge on my brothers camaro, it works perfectly. Is there a way to check the valves without tearing the head off. I already spent alot of money on parts, $40 is better in my pocket then for a head gasket that isnt needed. I took the valve cover off, the only visible parts are the cam and hydraulic lifters. Everything there looks to be in good working order. Maybe ill just have to suck it up and take the head off.

08-26-2006, 07:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	If you can get ahold of a boroscope, you might be able to see the underside of the valves, and see if they are bent. I find it odd that it would run well at all, then all of a sudden do this. The only thing that would make sense in that scenario is if the thing jumped time but a couple of teeth. You say you checked the belt, and it looked new, still. That kind of tells me that didn't jump time, though you never know. Double check the timing, find a boroscope, and see what you can see. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-27-2006, 11:35 AM	#10 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	no boroscope, guess im gonna get to work tearing that head off, thanks for the Help

08-27-2006, 04:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Short of someone drilling holes in the cylinder walls, the only thing I can think of that should cause zero compression is a bent/missing valve. The fact that it's happening in all four cylinders really does point to the timing belt as the culprit. You say you recently replaced the timing belt - - - was that preventative maintainence or was it because the old one broke? If a timing belt didn't break, it had to jump more than one tooth in order to get the valves messed up like that.

08-27-2006, 05:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Replacing the timing belt was preventative maintenance. It's the first time the belt has been replaced in this car that I know of. I did it at about 105,000mi. The car is currently at 112,000mi. We did make sure to get everything TDC when we installed the new Timing Belt. Checked the notches throughout the installation. *Sigh. I am terribly vexed.

09-21-2006, 05:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Ok here's an update. Took the head to a machine shop. All my valves were bent. There was no damage to the head itself. So that saved me from having to buy a whole new engine. Had to replace the valves and lifters though. So $260 dollars later, I get to take my head home. I have it bolted down now, haven't put the timing belt and hoses back on yet. Hopefully have that done by tomorrow. We must have installed the timing belt 180 degrees off. You live and you learn

09-23-2006, 09:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
duck0987 Crazy Location: ohio	If you haven't found it there is a DIY over at vw vortex for timing belts, if you where off 180 i assume you didn't do the mark and match method, have to look at your timing marks now. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2271429 __________________ "I've got a lot of friends who don't know how to cook, which I could never understand because not knowing how to cook is like not knowing how to fuck." --Robert Rodriguez

09-25-2006, 03:30 AM	#15 (permalink)
CAVEMAN282 Upright	1996 Jetta Compression problems I have a 1996 VW Jetta, I towed it in to the shop (VW Dealer) because died while sitting at a stop sign. No indications of a problem, no check engine light, no rough idling, no backfiring, just died. I tried starting it again, it tried to turn over but would start. I just got off the phone with the dealer, I was told that 3 of the 4 cylinders did not have compression, and that I would need a new engine. Does this sound right? The timing belt was fine, I had good fuel pressure, the distributor was clean and providing spark. Oh, this is a 2.0, Jetta GL. Any assistance would be great. Thanks. 3VWRA81HXTM060308

10-22-2006, 02:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Further adventures with my car: I've noticed this past week that my car has a very rough idle as soon as I start it. It stops after I feed gas and move the car a few feet. The vibrations only happen on a, for the most part, cold start. Check engine light came on not long after the vibrations started. I checkedd them. My 3 codes are: P1255: Engine coolant Temperature sensor short to ground P0134pd: O2 sensor circuit no activity detected bank 1 sensor 1 P0302pd: Cylinder 2 minsfire detected Whats going on? What do I need to do now? -Mike

10-22-2006, 05:31 PM	#17 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Probably needs a coolant temp sender, and a front oxygen sensor. The miss is up for grabs, though. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

10-22-2006, 09:21 PM	#18 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	I'm gonna guess that cyl2 misfire has something to do with your crappy idle. Check the spark plug for proper gapping, and also check it for evidence of a mixture problem (which could be caused by the lack of 02 and coolant temp sensor, as the malfunction of these sensors will make the engine stay in closed loop all the time, making the mixture far too rich). I wouldn't be surprised if you end up replacing the spark plug due to fouling. If I had to hazard a wild guess, it's the coolant sensor's short that caused the engine to go into closed loop mode, which dumped a shitload of fuel, fouling the spark plug, which then made the cylinder misfire, sending unburned/partially burned fuel into the exhaust manifold to foul the o2 sensor. And Caveman, you're describing a classic timing belt break. You should not need an entirely new engine, just new valves, and possibly a new head if the damage is bad enough. Check into that - it's remotely possible the shop recommended a new engine because they can get it cheaper than a new head -- I doubt it, but who knows.

10-23-2006, 03:41 PM	#19 (permalink)
Borla Junkie	You said originally that you had a new ignition coil installed? Don't those have one coil per cylinder? Did you replace all four? __________________ Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde!!!!

10-23-2006, 07:37 PM	#20 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	The 2.0 doesn't have coil on plug ignition. The distributor is done away with, thankfully, but there still are problem areas in the ignition system. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.