Did I get ripped off? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Marvelous Marv · 08-03-2006, 12:07 PM

Short version:

My 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 6 cylinder had a problem--the engine would quit for a few seconds, then restart. Sometimes when I was going about 30 mph. That's unsettling.

The first time the dealer looked at it, they checked the battery terminals, and cleaned the throttle body. That didn't cure it.

The second time, they changed the crankshaft position sensor. From the reading I've done, that was an appropriate procedure. It's only been a couple of days since they did it, so I'm not yet sure if the problem is cured.

My question is regarding the labor. The second time, they billed me for four hours of labor. A search of the net found one guy who said his dealer did the job on the same car in one hour, and another guy who did it himself in 2.5 hours, while holding a beer. Actually, over the course of the job, he held three beers.

Does anyone know how I can find an appropriate labor time for this? I understand that it's kind of a bear to get to, on the bell housing and all, but four hours seems excessive.

Thanks.

THGL · 08-03-2006, 12:55 PM

Call another Jeep dealer and ask the service manager what the labor time should be. I believe that dealers have all the repairs listed and the general time involved (so they don't have to keep track of the real labor time).

Good luck.

laconic1 · 08-03-2006, 02:02 PM

I looked up the time for the crankshaft position sensor in three different labor time guides. Alldata and Motor both list the time to change the sensor at .4 hours and Mitchell lists it at .7 hours. Plus general rule of thumb is 1.0 hours for diagnosis. So yeah, 4 hours seems quite high.

Deltona Couple · 08-24-2006, 02:12 PM

From experience I have found that many of the labour time guides are merely that, a GUIDE. Not a rulebook. Some vehicles have rusted bolts, others have acessories that were not factory added that make it more difficult to access parts. We use alldata here as a guide, and it states 1.0 diag and .4 to replace. lets say it was a tough job, I would maybe add 1.0 to it, for a total of 2.4. I would go back to the shop that did it, and ask for an explanation at a minumum for the excessive charges, and then I would never return there again if they can't come up with a DARN good explanation....
It really ticks me off the crooked mechanics out there that give my profession a bad name!

Plaid13 · 08-25-2006, 02:02 AM

I would go back and ask them why it was 4 hours what exactly they had to do. have them point out every step that was done. Because that does seem high a qualified mechanic taking 4 times as long as it should have is more then just stumbling acorss a rusty bolt or something. If they had a broke bolt and had to drill it out ok fine but most likly you paid for someones lunch break there.

Marvelous Marv · 08-27-2006, 06:15 AM

Thank you all for your responses. It will take me awhile, but I'll follow up and post the results.

Deltona Couple, can you tell me how I can obtain a printout from alldata?

DEI37 · 08-27-2006, 06:54 AM

I don't think you can, per se. AllData is a subscription service for repair garages, primarily. I'm not sure what is available to the general public.

Ilow · 08-27-2006, 06:58 PM

is it completely off base to think that they forgot the decimal point. If the repair should have been .4 hour and they charged for 4 hours? doubt it's that simple.

Krycheck · 08-27-2006, 08:10 PM

Marv: go to the local library. You can find the same books (Mitchell) they use. What DC said is correct. Time labor guides are just that. It's just a time the "average" mechanic can do the job. Someone that does them all the time can do it in an hour or less while someone with little experience will do it in 2 hrs. Labor time guides are mostly used by warranty companies. They only pay book times. If you feel that you got taken (by the looks of if you did) you can file a complaint with the BB or Consumer Affairs depending what state you live in.

Deltona Couple · 09-05-2006, 01:08 PM

Unfortunately DEI37 is right. Due to contract, we are unable to distribute information on ther site. It is a subscription service, and I can't risk my dealership losing its contract. I would still say go back to the garage and ask for an explanation as to their charges. Ask for it in detail, parts, labour, taxes, fees....etc

08-03-2006, 12:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
Marvelous Marv Cunning Runt Location: Taking a mulligan	Did I get ripped off? Short version: My 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 6 cylinder had a problem--the engine would quit for a few seconds, then restart. Sometimes when I was going about 30 mph. That's unsettling. The first time the dealer looked at it, they checked the battery terminals, and cleaned the throttle body. That didn't cure it. The second time, they changed the crankshaft position sensor. From the reading I've done, that was an appropriate procedure. It's only been a couple of days since they did it, so I'm not yet sure if the problem is cured. My question is regarding the labor. The second time, they billed me for four hours of labor. A search of the net found one guy who said his dealer did the job on the same car in one hour, and another guy who did it himself in 2.5 hours, while holding a beer. Actually, over the course of the job, he held three beers. Does anyone know how I can find an appropriate labor time for this? I understand that it's kind of a bear to get to, on the bell housing and all, but four hours seems excessive. Thanks. __________________ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher

08-03-2006, 12:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
THGL Psycho Location: Louisville, KY	Call another Jeep dealer and ask the service manager what the labor time should be. I believe that dealers have all the repairs listed and the general time involved (so they don't have to keep track of the real labor time). Good luck. __________________ "The truth is merely an excuse for lack of imagination." - Garak

08-27-2006, 06:15 AM	#6 (permalink)
Marvelous Marv Cunning Runt Location: Taking a mulligan	Thank you all for your responses. It will take me awhile, but I'll follow up and post the results. Deltona Couple, can you tell me how I can obtain a printout from alldata? __________________ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher

08-27-2006, 06:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I don't think you can, per se. AllData is a subscription service for repair garages, primarily. I'm not sure what is available to the general public. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-27-2006, 06:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ilow Junkie Location: Pats country	is it completely off base to think that they forgot the decimal point. If the repair should have been .4 hour and they charged for 4 hours? doubt it's that simple. __________________ "Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about" --Sam Harris

08-03-2006, 02:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	I looked up the time for the crankshaft position sensor in three different labor time guides. Alldata and Motor both list the time to change the sensor at .4 hours and Mitchell lists it at .7 hours. Plus general rule of thumb is 1.0 hours for diagnosis. So yeah, 4 hours seems quite high.

08-24-2006, 02:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
Deltona Couple Addict Location: Spring, Texas	From experience I have found that many of the labour time guides are merely that, a GUIDE. Not a rulebook. Some vehicles have rusted bolts, others have acessories that were not factory added that make it more difficult to access parts. We use alldata here as a guide, and it states 1.0 diag and .4 to replace. lets say it was a tough job, I would maybe add 1.0 to it, for a total of 2.4. I would go back to the shop that did it, and ask for an explanation at a minumum for the excessive charges, and then I would never return there again if they can't come up with a DARN good explanation.... It really ticks me off the crooked mechanics out there that give my profession a bad name!

08-25-2006, 02:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
Plaid13 I want a Plaid crayon	I would go back and ask them why it was 4 hours what exactly they had to do. have them point out every step that was done. Because that does seem high a qualified mechanic taking 4 times as long as it should have is more then just stumbling acorss a rusty bolt or something. If they had a broke bolt and had to drill it out ok fine but most likly you paid for someones lunch break there.

08-27-2006, 08:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Krycheck Sultana ruined my evil persona Location: Los Angeles	Marv: go to the local library. You can find the same books (Mitchell) they use. What DC said is correct. Time labor guides are just that. It's just a time the "average" mechanic can do the job. Someone that does them all the time can do it in an hour or less while someone with little experience will do it in 2 hrs. Labor time guides are mostly used by warranty companies. They only pay book times. If you feel that you got taken (by the looks of if you did) you can file a complaint with the BB or Consumer Affairs depending what state you live in. __________________ His pants are tight...but his morals are loose!!

09-05-2006, 01:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
Deltona Couple Addict Location: Spring, Texas	Unfortunately DEI37 is right. Due to contract, we are unable to distribute information on ther site. It is a subscription service, and I can't risk my dealership losing its contract. I would still say go back to the garage and ask for an explanation as to their charges. Ask for it in detail, parts, labour, taxes, fees....etc __________________ "It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison