Rodney

Where do you live? Could it be, just possibly, that the rules in your state are different than the rules in others? As far as walking the bike across the road in a cross walk, I don't know if that is law or not. But that is the safest course on a street with extremely heavy traffic at a crossing with no stoplight, _if_ you haven't gotten your bike into position in the traffic flow (along with all the other cars) to make a left turn. Certainly, making a left turn directly from the bike lane across traffic is a good way to get a big article in tomorrow's paper with a headline beginning "Cyclist killed..."

I am a bicyclist and a motorist. I know what's going on out there. I know that it's tough for bicyclists. I also know that some bicyclists make a whole lot of their own trouble, sorry. Don't even get me started on Critical Mass.

And finally, the ultimate bicyclist slap-in-the-face to bike fanatics: some roads are just too dangerous to take your bike on, even if it's theoretically legal: no shoulder, heavy traffic, etc. I don't care what your legal rights are and how cars are oppressing you: if you go out on one of those killer streets, you're asking for it. ou're letting your sense of entitlement get in the way of your common sense. If you don't like it the way it is, lobby the city. And I don't know what it is about so many bicyclists -- too much testosterone, too much impatience, maybe you're as bad as the motorists you hate -- but stupid things are done on the road. And bicycle advocates never condemn the bad bike riders. You want some respect as a group, lobby to clean up the messes other bicyclists make. Then you'll have some more cred with the rest of is.

kutulu

I've fucking had it with the cyclists in my town. I live in Fountain Hills, the one part of the Phoenix area with rolling hills and such. As a result, it's very popular for the Lance Armstrong wannabes and they ride around with their heads up their asses.

Since it is a popular area for them, the town put bike lanes on both sides of all the three big roads. Of course, they have a problem sticking in those lanes. Instead of staying close to the curb, or even in the middle or their lane they are always hugging the outside of the lane or they ride just inside my lane. The best is when 2 or three ride tandem in the lane. It's great when you are sandwiched between a huge SUV on the left and a cyclist encroaching on your lane on the right.

You are supposed to ride in the middle of the lane, not the lane markers. I'm sure they'd be tossing up their spandex-covered arms if I did that to them...

braisler

^ Oh yes. The tirade of the overwhelmed, put-upon motorist! The laments of only being able to use two of three available lanes for driving your car. Ah, the poor souls who have to drive their car slightly more slowly or with more caution when approaching a tax paying citizen on a bicycle. <End Sarcasm>

The cyclist can not be "doing" anything to you by riding next to the lane marker, inside your lane, or any other place on the road. You can see him as you approach, right? I am sure that you are aware that you have to yield to slower moving vehicles, right? Like it or not, bikes are vehicles.

I'm not trying to attack you personally. I just hope you would take the time to consider your driving habits and how they impact other people. I am not trying to start a flame war here, though I am sure that is where the thread is headed without a doubt.

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You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein
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kutulu

All I ask is that they stay in their lane, not on the lane marker. I'm aware of them and try to give them space. I'm sure the cyclist would be pissed if I was driving in their lane.

One other thing: If it's a red light for us, it's a red light for you too. Nothing pisses me off more than cyclists running red lights.

little_tippler

what has been said...cyclists please follow all the rules. Decide whether you're a car or a pedestrian and stick to it.

In Portugal you get cyclists but I haven't really come across any who don't do the single-file thing. Portugal is pretty dangerous as far as driving is concerned.

I admit to getting annoyed when the road is extra-busy and a cyclist is making it slower...mainly because you don't really see people commuting on bikes exactly, they generally cycle for leisure only here. I suppose that's because our roads are extra narrow (an American friend of mine used to say the roads here are crazy). Now add to that the fact that on some of these extra tight roads people still think okay let's make a bike lane here and your car no longer even fits in a lane, well that leads to many problems with cyclists.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

astrahl

You also have to consider that because our roads have so much crap on the margins, those cyclists may be riding so close to the lane margins BECAUSE there is glass and tire debris and other hazardous stuff in their lane. I can't tell you how many times I have found everything from discarded construction nails to glass to cans and any other mess you can think of...oil spills, dead animals...ew. I can't ride over that and neither can they.

You are in an enclosed, air-conditioned vehicle...give those who aren't a bit of leeway. That person at the side of the road is somebody's son or daughter, brother or sister, mother or father. Treat them with the same respect you would if it was your kid on the side of the road.

StanT

That's fair, but keep in mind that rules and circumstances vary by location. In my part of the world, cyclists are all riding recreationally. They are not commuting anywhere, since the road in question doesn't go anywhere. People that reside up the canyon have no choice, but to drive a single lane windy road. Having your daily commute to work increase from 35 minutes to 90 because recreational cyclists feel they are above the law makes for a lot of road rage. Having them ride 2 and 3 across past the "single file" signs while flipping off people makes for even more.
For the most part, bicycle season coincides with motorcycle season. Most of my interaction with bicycles occurs while I am on a vehicle that is much quicker and more manuverable than any car. I have been hit twice in the last 6 years. Both times the bicyclist was at fault (as determined by the county sheriff). One bicyclist crossed the center line going downhill and clipped the back of my saddle bags. He apologized for loosing control and there was no damage to my bike. A sheriff witnessed the accident and offered to radio for an ambulance. No ticket was issued since there was no damage to my motorcycle. The other swerved wide as I passed him. and locked handlebars with me. Single file law states that he should have been within 1' of the right shoulder, my skid marks were within inches of the center line. He received a ticket and, I suspect, a bill from my insurance company. In either case, had I been driving a car, both would be dead.

Comfort really has nothing to do with legality. Common sense says that you always try to avoid an accident regardless of who is right or wrong. People that feel that they are above the law will find out that they are not. Hopefully, they will realize that in court rather than in a hospital.

shakran

This isn't a question of legality. It's a question of intelligence. If you have a bike lane available to you and you choose to ride in regular traffic lanes anyway, you are an idiot. End of story. Just because you legally can do something doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do. I can legally pour boiling water over myself, but that doesnt' mean I'd be wise to do it. Bikers who run around spouting the law as an excuse for their vacuous stupidity have no reason to complain when they get run over while exercising their legal rights.

sailor

What do you do when that bike lane is chock full of broken glass, rocks, and other refuse pushed there by the cars in the lane next to it?

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

roachboy

this topic really gets me irritated:

what is it about being in a car that turns so many otherwise nice folk into dickheads?

i cycle in philadelphia almost year round, and have been nearly killed more times than i can count. narrow busy streets are one problem--but that's part of the game. what is more difficult--because so unpredictable--is the bizarre actions of drivers--running red lights (doing the "philly creep")--jamming you against the curb--throwing shit out of their cars--getting right behind you and gunning their engines, ha ha. busses that take you for a target. add to this horrible, ill-maintained bike lanes, full not only of garbage and glass but also potholes, debris from trying to fix potholes, etc. that force you out into traffic (and into the peril of trolley tracks)...all of which would be fine if people driving cars did not become such jerks so often, simply because they are in a huge metal box and so think they have no contact with (and hence no responsibility for) who and what is around them.

in a better world, there would be no automobile traffic in cities.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

MSD

Nope, they get their own full lane, just like a car does. There's no such thing as a "bike lane" in CT. I'm overweight and out of shape and even I can manage to go 10 over the speed limit on flat ground.

Stiltzkin

I hate it when cyclers ride too fucking close to traffic. I just switch lanes to avoid the possibility of a freak accident. Other than that, no complaints.

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The most important thing in this world is love.

shakran

1) not all bike lanes are full of trash
2) you complain to the street department.
3) what about the bike lanes that are set back from the road like a sidewalk, are totally clear, have nothing in them, and yet the bikers still insist on riding on the street at the risk of their own safety? It doesn't make sense?
4) What about the bikers who insist on riding on the wrong side of the road? Or the ones that run lights/stop signs? Bikers aren't exactly innocent in this debate. Most of the people I see on the roads who are riding bikes make the streets more dangerous for everyone - and before you think I'm attacking bikers only, I'm not. It's the same with cars, the majority of drivers suck also.

As I said, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's smart. If you have a bike path available to you, then use it. If you don't, hug the shoulder. 99% of the drivers out there don't give a crap if you have the right to hog the entire lane or not, and they've got at least 1,800 pounds on you. Move out of the way.

astrahl

Hug the shoulder? You mean the gutter. You can't ride across the gutter, they are drainage ditches with grates that'll flip you off the bike. Ever ridden a bike on a street? Sidewalks are out of the question because it is, 1) usually against the law, and 2) you can't safely ride 20 mph over concrete slabs.
Cyclists pay taxes and are entitled to ride on the same road you do. The extra 10-15 seconds or even minute it takes you take to carefully get around them is not grounds to get all huffy about YOUR car's domain.
The ones who ride the wrong way or disobey traffic laws are NOT cyclists, but just dumb people on bikes. Cyclists are people who wear the right gear and obey the laws. Problem is, you group them all together as one and treat all the same. These are human lives we are talking about. I don't give a damn if dealing with cyclists takes you extra time. Killing or injuring somebody is a far more important issue.

greyeyes

I'm a cyclist and I've been hit by a car twice, run off the road once, and yelled/honked at many many times. What I dont get is: why dont people realize that they are putting mine (or other cyclist's) lives in danger because of something that might make them, at most, one minute late. Whenever I'm driving I ALWAYS give both bikers and cyclists as much room as they need while staying out of their blind spots. It's really not a hard thing to do. Sadly, here in Atlanta, I've read stats that said that in 2003 200 bikers/cyclists were killed. That just sucks!

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- Zach Braff

pattycakes

....when i was 16 i got hit in he back of the head by soccer ball from a car that was doing sixty. the kicker is that whoever did it missed the first time circled around picked up the ball and proceded to try and get me again.

Needless to say the ball bounced off my head and rolled into someones yard ( and i was on the sidewalk 10:00 @ night ) funny thing is it didnt hurt, but it pissed me off. the person behind them stopped and asked if i was okay.

and on top of that they circled the block again and wanted to "give me a beat down"

it didnt go down like that i started cutting through peoples yards....but god that sucks



also got hit in the back with change before

also hit by the same person 2 times

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jorgelito

What happened to bike lanes?

My main concern is when cyclists (or any vehicle for that matter) do not stop at traffic lights or stop signs. I also worry that the cyclist will swerve into me, especially going uphill I've notice how cyclists struggle and they sort of swerve and stuff. All this is made worse when they are side by side chatting or listening to their walkman.

Also, cyclists have an additional hazard of parked cars, opening doors etc. They really need their own lane. In Boston, there is the Minuteman Commuter Bikeway that extends from Bedford all the way into Cambridge (Alewife Station). I think it's like 8 miles or something but it's awesome and safe.

Bicycles, skateboards, rollerbladers should not be on sidewalks either, way too dangerous. Most users cannot control themselves adequately. Way too many close calls with the above and my pregnat wife (who is not swerving walking on the sidewalk) and the stroller.

Maybe cyclists should have to get a license like car drivers do. That may help with general safety and traffic law issues. The rest is common sense.

Share the road.

stevie667

There are actually tests you can do over here to certify your at a road worthy standard of cycling (i've done them, it's not that hard, but they would certainly help some people), of course they're not required by law, so practically no-one does them, and i admit i did them when i was a lot younger.

Unfortunatly, common sense just isn't that...common these days, if it was, we'd all be much richer.

astrahl

The problem, as I see it as a cyclist, is not necessarily all about the cyclists, but rather the motorists who don't know the law and are too self-centered to be concerned about another person trying to make their way.

Cyclists, on their worst days are more aware of the road and conditions than most motorists on their best days. I am talking about cyclists now, not douchebags on bikes who run lights and wear walkmans (illegal and stupid).

My point is that it takes SO LITTLE EFFORT, on a motorists part, to be aware of cyclists and give them some leeway. We ARE one less car in front of you, one less gas guzzler, one less polluter...give us a break.

shakran

No, I do not mean the gutter, I mean the shoulder. I'm tired of seeing bikers sit in the middle of a lane doing 8mph on a 45mph boulevard when there's a perfectly good breakdown lane, or even just the frikkin' side of the right lane, that they can ride in. As I've said before, the law does not give you an excuse to be an idiot.

And I'm not advocating riding on side WALKS. But when there's a paved asphalt path next to the road that has pictures of bikes painted on it and has green signs with pictures of bikes on them and has signs that say "bike path" on them, that's a pretty good hint that bikes are encouraged to be on the path. And when there IS such a path, and the biker is fucking around in the middle of the street, then he's an idiot. Plain and simple.

No, GOOD cyclists are people who wear the right gear and obey the laws. And I haven't complained about GOOD cyclists. I've only complained about the idiots.

You did that for me by insinuating that I have a gripe with good cyclists.


You really don't get me. When did I ever say I try to kill people on bicycles? Actually it's for their own safety that I wish they'd start acting intelligent. Whether the law allows it or not, dicking around in traffic that's going ten times faster than you and that weighs about 2,000 pounds more than you is asking for Darwin to come knocking at your door, especially if there are viable alternatives available to you that you don't take because you insist on enforcing the "law."

astrahl

Well, that depends what you call a viable alternative. If they are training, those "bike lanes" off the road may not be safe...but I'm making assumptions about bike lanes I am unfamiliar with. But, in my experience, some of those bike causeways are twisty and meandering and unfit for 20mph or greater speeds (and cyclists are easily capable of those speeds) .

I DO understand your gripe about the idiot bike riders, as I have the same gripe.

It was not my intention to attack you, but rather to bring the same concerns from a cyclist's perspective. Instead of calling in Darwin, I guess I'm just looking for a "they might be in the wrong, but I'm careful around them anyway," type attitude.

I have been hassled, yelled at, had things thrown at me, run off the road, dragged by a bus, threatened by a driver using her car as her weapon , threatened by the lazy police force (same bus incident), clipped by a car to fall on the one in front only to have the driver drive away, encroached upon in my lane...so maybe you can appreciate the animosity I feel on the subject.

StephenSa

I can't believe this thread is still breathing. When I started it I expected a goodly amount of replies but thought it would die a clean and early death. Its been interesting seeing both sides of the coin. As I expected coming from an enlightened forum such as this is most replies were reasonable. It's reasonable for drivers to be upset at bike riders that run red lights, ride muliti-bike abreast, don't signal turns or lane changes and generally behave like idiots. I also expected to hear from a cyclists that have been harrased by drivers for no good reason. I think the key is education and public awareness. Both driver's and cyclists need to be fully aware of the laws in their area regarding the road. As a general rule, cyclists may NOT ride on sidewalks nor are they required to ride on the shoulder. A cyclist must obey the same regulations as motor vehicles. A cyclist must ride WITH the flow of traffic and not against it. If a cyclist doesn't follow basic safety rules then said cyclist mucks it up for all of us and shouldn't be surprised if they are accidently hit. Drivers should as a rule actually pay attention when they drive. Use turn signals religiously, don't chatter on cell phones and consider piloting their vehicles from time to time as opposed to just riding behind the steering wheel. Bottom line BOTH forms of transportation have every legal right to the road.

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herostar

I ride my cycle on the road almost every day and have never had any problems. I always try to give bikers a little extra room.

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shakran

I'm not talking about the bike trails. I'm talking about the bike paths that parallel the road. In other words, the bike path only curves if the road curves. It's asphalt, just like the road, and follows the same path as the road, but it's set back from the road 3 to 5 feet, so it separates the bikers from the cars. Where I live anyway, they have a little street sweeper that cleans the paths. They clean the paths more often than they clean the roads. These things are freaking awesome, and I'm just about the only cyclist I ever see on them. Just about everyone else is out in the road, weaving and wobbling around at about 8mph while traffic tries to avoid them. It's insane!

You've found it in me then I'll bitch about 'em on here, but I'm still very careful when passing them. That doesn't mean I'm thrilled when one of them weaves in front of my car 'cause he's busy looking over his shoulder at his girlfriend, but. . .



Course I can. I've had similar things happen to me, which is why I REALLY advocate staying on the damn bike paths when they're available. I don't like getting run down, and I figure that's less likely to happen if I'm off on the bike path.

If there is no bike path, then absolutely the biker is doing nothing wrong by riding on the road, provided he does it in a smart way. The ones that weave all over the lane because they can't ride a bike in a straight line should get off the street until they learn how a bicycle operates, and so forth.

But as I've said, if the cyclist is competent, and isn't unnecessarilly obstructing other traffic (keep in mind that if I start driving 8mph and weaving all over in my car, the cops will nab me too) then there's nothing wrong with him being on the road.





I am going to steal that line. My sentiments EXACTLY, and not just regarding the bike issue.

Corneo

I live in Davis, CA aka Bicycle City USA. We have more bikes than people. The town has many bike paths off the main roads but people still ride their bikes on the road along with cars. Which scares me a lot, cyclist have no protection at all what so ever. I think cyclist should ride on their on lanes or path.

Hampshire

i personally thing they should make new rules to bikes. I believe that during rush hour times cyclists should stay off the road for safty reasons for them and others, but i know this is really unfare but they can be very hazardous when busy, and if u get hit while on a bike, theres not much protecting you.