dalnet22

People always say how you should do things for you and nobody else. It's not good to take part in something you don't want to do just for someone else's sake. For example, Ricky Williams quit football because he didn't like it. He was playing for years for the sake of those around him, not because he wanted to play. I've also been told it's bad to be happy tp make someone else content. You should be happy for you and because you want to be happy.

I've also been told how suicide is bad and if you don't want to live for yourself, do it for your parents or those who care. Others have said to go to the doctor and get healthy for them if I won't do it for myself...

This is, as I say in the title, merely hypothetical, but isn't committing suicide the same thing? Why should somebody go on simply because it keeps their mom or friend happy? Why should they keep doing something they don't want to do just to please somebody else? Does this honestly make sense? What do you think about this? If your happiness, health, or success can't be dependent on others, why should your life? Is it better to go through life miserable to please someone else than to just end it because you want to?

whocarz

Although I have my doubts this is a hypothetical question based on your other posts, people who say to only live for yourself are mind blowingly selfish. I've never advocated such outrageousness. If you want to listen to idiots, then by all means go ahead and take their advice.

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If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel

Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius

Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

Journeyman

Do it for yourself, as you will be 20 years from now.

dalnet22

But do you understand what my points?

Scenario: I've always hated playing soccer and I've only done it to make my dad happy. I'm now being told I should not be doing this to please someone else. I should be doing it because I want to.

If you're told you should do what you want for yourself and not to please another, how is your life any different?

orphen

lack of lithium that's all.

you need happy pills

but all seriousnesss, scientists have found that the leap from depression to suicide is nearly never purely mental. it always comes with the chemical. that a person will not commit suicide unless he lacks certain chem in his brain no matter how mentally dperessed he is.

MrFlux

Because with your life, you can't change your mind afterwards, it's final.

I understand what you're saying, but it's just a stupid contradiction, and there's not much point in putting a lot of thought into it.

Remember that most things have exceptions.

__________________
flux (n.)
Medicine. The discharge of large quantities of fluid material from the body, especially the discharge of watery feces from the intestines.

dalnet22

Not trying to be rude, but the point of this thread isn't to try and stear me away from doing something stupid or anything like that. I'm not asking for help, I'm asking what you think of my point. I just find it intriguing that someone would tell you that you should do what you want and not just to please someone else, yet they say the exact opposite about the most important thing, your life.

Anomaly_

Yes, I've always agreed with the point you're making. No one should live to simply satisfy someone else's status quo. It is a horrible existence.

MrFlux

It's just an exception to the rule, simple as that.

People always contradict themselves and then come up with some sort of exception to justify it

__________________
flux (n.)
Medicine. The discharge of large quantities of fluid material from the body, especially the discharge of watery feces from the intestines.

iamnormal

Once a life force has begun there is 100% chance it will die.
With those oddes why does it matter how the end happens?

AfterBurn

I compleatly agree with the "do things for you and noone else" statement and i could write an essay as to why but no. anyway, suicide isnt worth it because you can pretty much get over anything and once you kill yourself theres nothing you can do about it and you miss out on a whole lot of things..

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smoking weed everyday keeps the doctor away

alpha

I understand your point. "Don't do it, think about your loved ones" is a poor argument against suicide. But there are lots of good reasons why you shouldn't do it, so does it matter how you change someone's mind on killing himself, if it works? The person just needs to find the pleasure in life once again after that. But if someone continues his life for other people, is unhappy and it stays that way, he might as well have killed himself.

lurkette

Apples and oranges, mister. There's a huge difference between

1. making choices about your lifestyle and your career that are fulfilling for you and not living up to someone else's expectations

and

2. ending your life because you feel like it, despite the pain it will cause to those around you.

Let me tell you, there's a world of difference between being disappointed in someone's life choices, and grieving for the death of a loved one. They're not in the same league. And there's a big difference between making choices that are true to yourself, and killing yourself because of a temporary or even persistent disillusionment with life. It's a flawed analogy.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

maleficent

^^ what she said... ^^

Deciding to quit soccer is one thing, your dad will get over it... You can go on to do something else... Deciding to end your life is an entirely different story....

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theusername

I agree they are totally different. Don't live your life by a corny saying that doesn't apply to every situation.

Ricky Williams didn't ruin anybodys entire life by quitting football. His parents, friends, relatives can still call him on the telephone. The only thing i can think of if suicide ever comes into mind is looking at my parents faces as they cry their eyes out and live the rest of their life in misery. I don't want that.

Dont live by the saying do only what makes you happy and dont live for anyone else. Try to make yourself happy, but we do live for/with others who are important to us and we should try to make them happy as well.

Just my 2 cents.

I doubt this is a "hypothetical" question also. Just stick around man, everyone has ups/downs so stick around for when it'll come back up for you.

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Meier_Link

Not committing suicide for some else's sake would seem like the wrong reason not to do it. On the other hand it would really tear up those close to you, they would probably feel guilty and think that there were warning signs and they should have done something to prevent. They make even feel that somehow, even if indirectly, they were the cause.

I'd say a better reason not to do it is for yourself. Despite what other people believe, I'd say logically there's about a 99.9999% chance that when you die that's it, you cease to be, you no longer exist. That's missing out on a lot of stuff. On the other hand, if it is that .00001 % chance that there is life after death, you're dually fucked, as you'll probably end up in Hell or reincarnated as a cockroach or something.

__________________
life is a sexually transmitted disease

meepa

The bottom line here is that you can't weasel your way through this argument using logic alone. Humans are too emotional to deal with everything, especially something like this, logically.

I agree there is no such thing as altruism, and everything we do is for ourselves. However, going on this...

When someone offs themselves using this rationale, they are just trying to absolve themselves of guilt so that they feel better before they do the deed.

Also, if you're looking for a wrench to throw into the argument, you can play around with the idea that "it's okay to do something as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else". You're trying to say this logic forbids you from killing somebody else (obviously) but not from killing yourself. However, unless you're a hermit in the swamp that nobody ever heard of, you will be hurting those who care about you... so WHAM, you're stuck. You don't live in a vacuum where your actions only affect yourself. If you want to try to compare this to quitting a sport, go ahead, but I think we both know there is a difference of magnitude that you're deliberately ignoring and trying to push your point through on the logic-only train.

dalnet22

The difference in magnitude is a valid point. However, if it's true that you shouldn't be miserable to make someone else happy, is life really an exception? I can understand how being miserable in a sport is moot, but what's the difference between being miserable in a sport and miserable 24/7? Wouldn't that only strengthen the argument for why your life is not an exception?

meepa

There is a difference between being miserable at a sport and miserable 24/7 that I think makes this comparison silly. If someone hate playing soccer, then he quits- but he's still "there" and can go on to do other things that make him happy (or even go back to soccer if he felt like it). By commiting suicide, this choice is eliminated: you can't replace soccer with anything else, and if you ever were to change your mind (which would be hard seeing as you're dead), you certainly aren't going to be able to come back to life.

Also, quitting soccer is a remedy for the cause that was making this person unhappy. So I think it follows that the goal here is for the person to be happy. Killing oneself isn't going to accomplish becomming happy, it's just going to accomplish a cease of existing. So the difference is instead of replacing a negative with a positive, you're just erasing the negative by erasing yourself.

I think a more apt and logical comparison would be seeking help. For one, I really doubt this hypothetical person is really that tortured 24/7 in an unending cycle of pain. If that were true, they would probably have gone mentally unstable and already offed themselves somehow from the insanity. But a normal person who is depressed, however severely, still has the hope of recovery. So whether it be drugs, therapy, getting a pet kitten, or whatever, there is the possibility of recovering from the desire for suicide and replacing the pain with a normal lifestyle again. If anything, this approach is more comparable to quitting some other activity that one doesn't like.

Again to reiterate my point, the difference is replacing what is undesired with something that is desirable. Or in short, trading unhappy for happy. As I said, killing yourself is not a trade, it's an elimination of the entire problem by removing yourself from existance.

Another way to look at it is this: You quit soccer for your own benefit because it's having a negative impact on you. Once you quit, the negative influence is gone, but you are there so you can experience the positive results of the action. Suicide doesn't yield positive results, it only eliminates the negative, along with you.

You can go ahead and make the argument "Well not suffering anymore is a positive result", but I'm saying you won't exist to even realize it. Seeking help is the best way to achieve positive results that you can experience without harming others in the process. I also want to emphasize that I doubt anyone can really suffer 24/7 without going insane, and then there's no logic left to argue with anyway.

iamnormal

This may help
http://overcaffeinated.net/comic/date/20030330