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meepa · 08-12-2004, 12:43 PM

There is a difference between being miserable at a sport and miserable 24/7 that I think makes this comparison silly. If someone hate playing soccer, then he quits- but he's still "there" and can go on to do other things that make him happy (or even go back to soccer if he felt like it). By commiting suicide, this choice is eliminated: you can't replace soccer with anything else, and if you ever were to change your mind (which would be hard seeing as you're dead), you certainly aren't going to be able to come back to life.

Also, quitting soccer is a remedy for the cause that was making this person unhappy. So I think it follows that the goal here is for the person to be happy. Killing oneself isn't going to accomplish becomming happy, it's just going to accomplish a cease of existing. So the difference is instead of replacing a negative with a positive, you're just erasing the negative by erasing yourself.

I think a more apt and logical comparison would be seeking help. For one, I really doubt this hypothetical person is really that tortured 24/7 in an unending cycle of pain. If that were true, they would probably have gone mentally unstable and already offed themselves somehow from the insanity. But a normal person who is depressed, however severely, still has the hope of recovery. So whether it be drugs, therapy, getting a pet kitten, or whatever, there is the possibility of recovering from the desire for suicide and replacing the pain with a normal lifestyle again. If anything, this approach is more comparable to quitting some other activity that one doesn't like.

Again to reiterate my point, the difference is replacing what is undesired with something that is desirable. Or in short, trading unhappy for happy. As I said, killing yourself is not a trade, it's an elimination of the entire problem by removing yourself from existance.

Another way to look at it is this: You quit soccer for your own benefit because it's having a negative impact on you. Once you quit, the negative influence is gone, but you are there so you can experience the positive results of the action. Suicide doesn't yield positive results, it only eliminates the negative, along with you.

You can go ahead and make the argument "Well not suffering anymore is a positive result", but I'm saying you won't exist to even realize it. Seeking help is the best way to achieve positive results that you can experience without harming others in the process. I also want to emphasize that I doubt anyone can really suffer 24/7 without going insane, and then there's no logic left to argue with anyway.

08-12-2004, 12:43 PM	#19 (permalink)
meepa Insane	There is a difference between being miserable at a sport and miserable 24/7 that I think makes this comparison silly. If someone hate playing soccer, then he quits- but he's still "there" and can go on to do other things that make him happy (or even go back to soccer if he felt like it). By commiting suicide, this choice is eliminated: you can't replace soccer with anything else, and if you ever were to change your mind (which would be hard seeing as you're dead), you certainly aren't going to be able to come back to life. Also, quitting soccer is a remedy for the cause that was making this person unhappy. So I think it follows that the goal here is for the person to be happy. Killing oneself isn't going to accomplish becomming happy, it's just going to accomplish a cease of existing. So the difference is instead of replacing a negative with a positive, you're just erasing the negative by erasing yourself. I think a more apt and logical comparison would be seeking help. For one, I really doubt this hypothetical person is really that tortured 24/7 in an unending cycle of pain. If that were true, they would probably have gone mentally unstable and already offed themselves somehow from the insanity. But a normal person who is depressed, however severely, still has the hope of recovery. So whether it be drugs, therapy, getting a pet kitten, or whatever, there is the possibility of recovering from the desire for suicide and replacing the pain with a normal lifestyle again. If anything, this approach is more comparable to quitting some other activity that one doesn't like. Again to reiterate my point, the difference is replacing what is undesired with something that is desirable. Or in short, trading unhappy for happy. As I said, killing yourself is not a trade, it's an elimination of the entire problem by removing yourself from existance. Another way to look at it is this: You quit soccer for your own benefit because it's having a negative impact on you. Once you quit, the negative influence is gone, but you are there so you can experience the positive results of the action. Suicide doesn't yield positive results, it only eliminates the negative, along with you. You can go ahead and make the argument "Well not suffering anymore is a positive result", but I'm saying you won't exist to even realize it. Seeking help is the best way to achieve positive results that you can experience without harming others in the process. I also want to emphasize that I doubt anyone can really suffer 24/7 without going insane, and then there's no logic left to argue with anyway.