Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Life


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-19-2003, 05:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
Illusionary
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
racist hiring

I am disgusted with myself. As a retail manager it is my responsibility to build a team of competent and productive workers, and at the same time attempt to create an atmosphere that is enjoyable. I manage thru mutual respect and have always treated all employees equally in my career. Thru the years I have had to deal with unhappy staff and many terminations, usually with little in the way of problems. I keep full documentation on performance and am honest , but supportive when I see weakness.

Six times now I have had an African/American employee accuse me of racism when confronted about poor performance. I have never had an issue with anyone else. This has brought me to my quandry. I am at the point where it is no longer in the best interest of my store to recruit from this pool. I also fear that a complaint(valid or not) to an institution such as the NAACP would put my career in peril.

Please understand, I am not racist by nature, and interact with a very mixed ethnic social group in my private life, I am in fact deeply insulted when such a charge is placed against me.

Any thoughts?
__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Last edited by tecoyah; 12-19-2003 at 05:12 AM..
tecoyah is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 05:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: NJ
You can't judge all by a minority. While I know of one African American female who worked with my fiancee that pulled this constantly (and made no secrets about her strategy), I also know of a 30 something white female who uses the "illness" card whenever she gets a chance since she's been diagnosed with depression. She makes no secret about this being her strategy. Then there are people who I know that work for the minimum amount of time to qualify for unemployment and purposefully get fired so they can collect without working. Certainly I would not judge all white male 20 somethings as a group based on these few people.

It sounds like you need to come up with a way to screen this type of behavior out as early as possible. Whether that's through some pointed (but not over the line) questions, more in depth reference checks, or some other tactic.

No matter how you slice it, it's a personality trait rather than some genetic/social trait based on race.
__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.
onetime2 is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 06:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
My future is coming on
 
lurkette's Avatar
 
Moderator Emeritus
Location: east of the sun and west of the moon
First, be sure you can document all of the performance problems. If you can make it clear that there are objective standards that are simply not being met, your ass is basically covered. Second, do your best not to rise to the bait, as it were. Tell the people that you're very disappointed they feel that way, but your complaint has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with performance. Then show them the documentation, stats, whatever, and try to work with them to improve their performance. Make sure they feel supported and recognized and I don't think you'll have a problem.
__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France
lurkette is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 06:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
Addict
 
Sho Nuff's Avatar
 
Location: Harlem
It is possible that you may be showing some prejudice unintentionally. People tend to gravitate toward people that are like them, even if there is no malicious intent toward other races. It’s just a fact of life. In a work environment this is easily perceived as bias.

As a supervisor you have to make an extra effort (even if it is only to appease the minds of the ignorant) to appear non-biased. Being a supervisor requires you to be an amateur psychologist. You are in the people business as a supervisor so you have to learn to control perception. You have to create an environment such that if anyone accuses you of racism then even the other people of that race will defend you. Once one employee brands you as a racist it will spread and cause increasing problems.
__________________
I know Nietzsche doesnt rhyme with peachy, but you sound like a pretentious prick when you correct me.
Sho Nuff is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 07:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
Tilted Cat Head
 
Cynthetiq's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
as a manager of 15 people, I'm with lurkette. Document for as long as you can... 6 months is sufficient to document someone for immediate termination with no rocks to hide behind like FMLA.

It's your documentation that can make the entire difference. Also, get WITNESSES. Either bring in an assistant manager, another manager, and HR if possible even if it's over the phone. You don't want a he said/she said situation.

As for your gun shy about hiring from the "pool" well hire the most qualified candidates. PERIOD. Not the one with the nicest tits, fairest complexion, etc. You're hired to get a job done, do it to the best of your ability.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.
Cynthetiq is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 07:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
skysooner's Avatar
 
Location: Oklahoma
Like someone said above, sometimes the cries of racism are a strategy. They know it makes you uncomfortable and it is to their advantage to use it when they might no otherwise be a good employee. I too work with all races of people, and I have seen absolutely no difference in the work behavior of different groups. A bad employee is a bad employee regardless of race. My company is very careful to document the behavior of individuals so that when they are fired it is clear that it was their work behavior rather than any other factor.
skysooner is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 09:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot!
 
raeanna74's Avatar
 
Location: Upper Michigan
Lurkette and Cynthetiq said it best. Keep records, leave a paper trail, and get witnesses.

As to hiring - I don't know what kind of work you are in but raise your standards or change them whatever it is so that anyone with this kind of shoddy attitude be they white, black, or green won't get the job.

I know the feeling and have been in a job where I was accused of something similar - only gender - not race. I had documentation though so did not get in trouble and later just found a different job/work. Until you find a better employee or another job (not suggesting you quite but people do change jobs) then it can be a huge frustration. Just stand tall and keep records of everything. Good Luck
__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.
raeanna74 is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 12:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
Insane
 
Should you implement a racist practice to avoid being accused of being a racist? No. That doesn't make sense and wouldn't protect you. You can be sued for not hiring people based on race just as assuredly as you can be sued by your employees for racist business practices. Why lose the moral high ground? Don't become a racist to avoid being called a racist.
phaedrus is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 01:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Florida
Re: racist hiring

Quote:
Originally posted by tecoyah
I am at the point where it is no longer in the best interest of my store to recruit from this pool. I also fear that a complaint(valid or not) to an institution such as the NAACP would put my career in peril.
I don't think you need to refuse to hire black people across the board, but you can and should look at them closely to see if they show signs of being race baiters. For instance, make sure you get references of previous employers and talk to them to see why the person left.

I'm a young unmarried male, so I pay higher car insurance premiums because I'm considered a higher risk to the insurance company. Statistically speaking, people matching my demographic cost them more money.

Same deal for you. Black people are a higher risk to your career and the company you work for because they tend to cause more of these kinds of problems, so that merits consideration in the hiring process.

It's not fair to the many black people who would never think of going around screaming racism in order to get preferential treatment. Nor is it fair that I pay out the ass for insurance despite having only one speeding ticket, zero at-fault accidents, and zero claims on my policy. But life's not fair.

Last edited by irseg; 12-19-2003 at 01:09 PM..
irseg is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 05:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
Illusionary
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
I very much appreciate all your replys, and have had much the same thoughts concerning this situation. I do not intend to actually hire based on race as one of my best employees is also black(and infact warned me of the impending race card employee). Just attempting to get some outside perspective and vent a little frustration. many thanx tec
__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
tecoyah is offline  
Old 12-20-2003, 01:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: watching from the treeline
I was walking through a major department store one time, and as I passed one of the registers this black woman was getting quite upset that she wasn't able to return some article of clothing that she had previously purchased. I distinctly heard her say to the young white male cashier:

"You won't let me return this because I'm black!"

And what the fuck can you say to something like that?
timalkin is offline  
Old 12-22-2003, 08:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
Ssssssssss
 
Kaos's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario
Quote:
Originally posted by timalkin


"You won't let me return this because I'm black!"

And what the fuck can you say to something like that?
"I won't let you return it because you are a bitch" (Of course you would only use this if you dont' care about your job, or planning to quit anyways)

That's a tough spot tecoyah. I think the best advice has been given already. Document everything, and hire the person most qualified for the job.
Kaos is offline  
Old 12-23-2003, 03:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
I stole my boyfriends TFP, hehe !!
 
RemyLebeau97's Avatar
 
Location: Galveston, TX
Sounds to me like maybe the first mistake you made was letting the other person trick you into believing it was a racist issue. Some people will take advantage of that on the job, it can be used as a poor excuse when they are not performing at their peek. I've seen this at my job before, one black woman kept showing up late for work so management confronted her, she said something like " You don't confront white people when they are late so why are you confronting me" It turned into this huge racial deal and made the manager quit his job after 5 years of working there. Watch out though, especially if the person doesn't like you because there are cruel people out there that will use the whole racism thing against you to their fullest. Good Luck.
RemyLebeau97 is offline  
Old 12-26-2003, 09:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
Psycho
 
papermachesatan's Avatar
 
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally posted by Cynthetiq
As for your gun shy about hiring from the "pool" well hire the most qualified candidates. PERIOD. Not the one with the nicest tits, fairest complexion, etc. You're hired to get a job done, do it to the best of your ability.
Attitude is also crucial. Even if they don't have the skills, if they have an 'can do' attitude, they'll learn them.
papermachesatan is offline  
 

Tags
hiring, racist

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:21 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360