Waste of Muscle? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Sleepyjack · 12-15-2003, 07:37 AM

Sometimes i am a little bemused to why people strive and pine to get all muscular, when they have no real or apparent need for it?

Sure, it's good to get into shape, figuratively speaking, but why get sooooo excessive on it? When these people don't put their muscles to use, to do anything but either walk around all macho in public, or get stronger, such that they can just get through their next set?
Work out, just so you can get through your next work out? eh? wtf?

Sure, lots of people work out for their job, or other occupation as they might need the extra physicality, but over the last week or so, i've run into 3 guys, seemingly working out and fretting about themselves all for nothing, just to get big muscles... *sigh*
Just seems like a big waste, it'd be good if they did something witht them, other than just getting through their next work out? and looking all pretty.
Quite a mindless cycle....?

For an anology, it's like saving up lots of money, but never spending it on anything? Sure, it's probably good to say "oh wow, i've got all this money, LOOK AT ME" but they never do anything productive with it? I'd think though, that trying to get so bulky etc, would end up being a burden in the end, if you hvae nothing prodcutive to do with yourself? Like no sports or any other real physical activity. All these gym rats (that doens't mean everyone who goes to the gym) make my mind boggle a bit? seems such a pointless excercise?

Just today at basketball, i had one of these guys (who was watching the game from the other team) approach me after our game and he was talking about his gym workout and what i may do (

i don't go to the gym, eveyone seems bemused at that?), but i quickly found out, he doesn't really do anything (other than wokrout, office job, no other sports?), other than workout and excessively. For no real purpose...He's the main reason i did this little rant, if you can call it that?

This isn't an attack on any one who does some common trianing, nor trains excessively with something else in mind. Moreso, some of the guys who go overboard with it and get way too excessive, given they don't really have any purpose for being so big?
Also, people who want to start working out, always want to know how long it takes to get "big" or whatever. It's not that good in the end, cause you have to eat so much fucking food, lol

I know, it's their decision and all, but sometimes i can't fathom why they do or want to do that? I know it basically goes to the idea of looking good, but when you get to that sorta of neanderthal/caveman stage, i really don't understand why they still fret so much?

maybe they should all metaphorically "learn to swim"

(taken from tool's anema song

)

ok i am hitting submit

perth1 · 12-15-2003, 08:44 AM

i guess some people find it fun!

my old man has more money than he could spend, yet he still wheels and deals and tries to make more. why? cos its fun!

different people get adrenaline from different things i guess. i have never seen the point in getting stupid big, i think it looks ugly. but hey, there are chicks that dig big muscles!

SiNai · 12-15-2003, 10:54 AM

Well, some people actually compete as bodybuilders, but those that don't actually have a goal to compete, well..

There's probably some narcissistic drive in most of them, and are too stubborn to stop where they are- they keep wanting to achieve perfection? To get bigger and bigger and bigger?

I agree, really huge people look.. funny. There's a guy that rides his bike all over my campus, he must be 35 or so, bursting out of a pink tank top- Obviously he looks stupid, but maybe he thinks that he's "The shit"? I don't know.

rogue49 · 12-15-2003, 11:51 AM

I like muscles for the looks,
but I also do use them in sports & various other things where it's useful having the strength.
To be honest, there's an ego-boost with the gaining of size.
Much less, the feeling of power.

Muscles also burn fat more efficiently,
now I don't agree with those who overdo it,

However, everyone has got that one thing they are into.
For some it's bodybuilding, with others it's computers,
others it's comics.
Whatever floats your boat.

kurty[B] · 12-15-2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sleepyjack
Just seems like a big waste, it'd be good if they did something witht them, other than just getting through their next work out? and looking all pretty.

looking all pretty, that's exactly why some of them do it. Why do women put on gobs and gobs of make-up every morning?! aren't these two rituals almost one in the same when the end to the means is for beautification?

Plan9Senior · 12-15-2003, 12:55 PM

Some people like to take pride in their appearance. If you say you have a nice physique and you dont workout, thank your genetics but also realize that most people have to work to stay in shape. There are many many reasons as to why myself and others toss iron around everyday in the gym from looking and feeling good to just enjoying it as a hobby. I honestly take offense in your post...came across as a pretty ignorant thing to write.

Sleepyjack · 12-15-2003, 04:00 PM

I am not suggesting everyone who goes to the gym is like this? but i ran into a few guys this week, who don't really do anything else with their huge frames, other than just work out some more. And it forms this endless cycle? People also can do it (this excessiveness) without going to the gym as well, 'cause i work out at home, so it's not just people who go to the gym, just the ones who don't really seem to do anything with their strength (in terms of some kind of job or maybe sport/recreational thing), other than more working out, bemuse me a little? Just overall seems a waste of strength to me?

Like you say its a hobby and all, and i guess it is for me as well, cause i actually hvae fun working out (who'da thunk it?), i am overall saying it just seems like a waste and a shame that they don't really do anything productive with their strength? That was my general observation. And it's mainly aimed at the excessiveness of some people, as their could be excessiveness with anything which could seem like a waste.

I juts think it's amazing what some people will excessivley do, JUST for looks really? I mean, this can kinda stem onto unnecessary plastic surgery as well...
I remember seeing on 60 mintues, a simialr thing i was talking about, where this guy was fretting for his diet etc and worked out everyday, which was good, but he would go as far as to get calf implants, which make his calf muscles look bigger, with no real added strength or anything. I was amazed at it all? It's these sorta people, and their fretting about of looks, i am mainly aiming at in this post.

Overall i encourage working out as well, but sometimes people seem to overstep the line, in what is appopriate and maybe healthy (maybe both physically and mentally) for them?

Loup · 12-16-2003, 05:07 AM

MALE ATHLETES ALSO SUFFER FROM BODY IMAGE PROBLEMS, STUDY SHOWS (Link)

Quote:

TORONTO – While eating disorders among athletes are often seen as a problem mainly for women, some male athletes may also have their own issues regarding body image, new research suggests.
But the eating and body image problems for men may be different than they are for women.

A pilot survey of elite male athletes at one university found that about one in five believed they aren’t sufficiently muscular. While female athletes in the study said they wanted to lose weight (an average of 6.8 pounds), men wanted to gain weight – an average of 3.2 pounds.

“Some male athletes see pictures in men’s fitness magazines of big, extremely muscular men and feel that they don’t measure up,” said Jennifer Carter, a psychologist at the Ohio State University Sports Medicine Center.

Carter, who works with athletes at Ohio State, conducted this study of 882 athletes at the university, 57 percent of whom were men. She presented the results August 8 in Toronto at the annual meeting of the American Psychological Association.

If male athletes feel they are not lean and muscular enough – and combine that with unhealthy behaviors, such as use of performance-enhancing drugs – it could result in a body image disorder known as muscle dysmorphia.

This study showed that about 1.1 percent of male athletes may suffer from this disorder. Carter said this is one of the first studies to ask male athletes questions that could support such a diagnosis.

“There hasn’t been a lot of research about eating disorders among male athletes, but I think it may be a growing problem,” Carter said.
“I don’t have male athletes approaching me to say they have an eating disorder, but I do see athletes who say they are concerned about their body and want to be bigger and more muscular.

Sometimes their desire to be more muscular has little to do with improving their athletic performance.”

The survey asked several questions intended to find out what body image issues men had and what they were doing to become more muscular. Results showed:

9 percent reported using performance-enhancing drugs or substances, such as creatine.
5 percent said they avoided situations where they had to expose their bodies, such as wearing a swimsuit.
4 percent reported they are preoccupied about the inadequacy of their body size and have significant distress or impairment as a result.
4 percent said they frequently give up important activities because of their workout or diet schedule.

The study of muscle dysmorphia in men is still relatively new, spurred by research by Harrison Pope and published in his book “The Adonis Complex,” Carter said. Muscle dysmorphia is not yet recognized as an official psychiatric disorder, mainly because there has been little research of the issue yet.

However, Carter said more attention needs to be focused on the problem.

“The issue for some men is meeting this ideal of the muscular bodybuilders they see in fitness magazines,” she said. “One thing we like to discuss with the male athletes is that these bodybuilders may be on steroids and their bodies may be unattainable without chemical assistance.”

This study, done in 2002, was the second yearly study Carter has done with athletes at the university. In both years, fewer than 2 percent had diagnosable eating disorders. Higher numbers showed symptoms associated with eating disorders – such as binge-eating and purging – but not severe enough to be listed as a disorder. The good news, Carter said, is that the percentage of athletes showing these symptoms declined from 2001 to 2002, from 15 percent to 12 percent.

In this year’s study, Carter also looked specifically at athletes in lean sports – sports in which there is added pressure to be lean for aesthetic or performance reasons. This includes sports such as gymnastics, swimming, diving, cross country and track.

The findings showed that 17.5 percent of athletes in lean sports showed symptoms of eating disorders, compared to 9.2 percent of athletes in non-lean sports, such as basketball, football and hockey.

“Even for the lean sports, there is not evidence that thinness equals better performance, Carter said. “But athletes in the lean sports feel added pressure to be thin, and may resort to unhealthy behaviors to achieve thin bodies.”

Sleepyjack · 12-16-2003, 05:37 AM

yep, great link djp

that's the kinda guys i am talking about. Cool, good to know as well. I've always suspected theres a lot of guys with "The Adonis Complex", albeit i sometimes thought of it as the anorexic equilivant for guys, meaning the health/mental illness equilivant. Of course, like anorexia, it's all bought and portrayed through the media as ideal body images for the sexes. Just like girls have the slender/skinny look, guys always have the six pack and big muscular body type pushed on them. Hopefully this disorder will get more attention!

This was pretty much what i was aiming at with this thread. GOod to get more concrete stuff on it, other than my whimisical opinions/observations

Plan9Senior · 12-18-2003, 01:08 AM

Obsessed is another word "the lazy" use to describe the dedicated.

Remember this.

seizei · 12-18-2003, 02:05 AM

Does a painter stop painting because his current work is 'good enough'?

No - the betterment of one's skill and ability is the pursuit. The challenge of striving upwards to more difficult tasks is exciting to many people who dedicate themselves to something.

It's the same with working out. When you are in the gym on a daily basis scupting your body, there is no point when you think 'gee, I'm done now, I'm perfect!'. There is always something you can improve, some obstacle to overcome, or a challenge to meet.

I do understand your point about training for no apparent purpose. My own training is tailored around the martial arts tournament circuit. For those who only work out though - I refer to my previous analogy... what is the point of painting pictures? they don't do anything but look nice... but what was gained in the process of painting them? Self-realization, discipline to keep trying, and an expression of oneself.

I say that non-physical growth, and not the end physical result, is the real benefit of intense training.

Sleepyjack · 12-18-2003, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Plan9 said
Obsessed is another word "the lazy" use to describe the dedicated.

Remember this.

Yeah i know this, and to an extent i am dedicated or even sometimes obseesed with working out myself. I often to random sets of 40 pushups and 100 situps at work and wherever (although i do get embarrased if others see me

)
So that could be obessevie? but i just do it, mainly for a quick adrenaline/endorphin fix.

However,the idea of this thread is purely addressing a mental condition that some guys may have. Like girls starve themselves to get thin (anorexia/bullemia), guys dope up and constantly work out in order to get all hugely muscular. Although it's subjective to where you can draw a line at saying one has a problem and one just wants to get to the next level. I guess it's all about what's both physically and mentally unhealthy for them to do? Although only physcologist and dr's could probably determine that? and i am not one

I wasn't saying that everyone who goes to a gym and often/regular is like this, it's a select few, but i think it's definitley a problem.

Quote:

seizei said
what is the point of painting pictures? they don't do anything but look nice... but what was gained in the process of painting them? Self-realization, discipline to keep trying, and an expression of oneself.

Although like anorexia, the main health problem is related to narcissim, or the strive for this (cause they normally hate their bodies) so they go under to rather extreme measures in order to obtain these body types they're pining for. So if the artist was so uptight, such that he coudln't finish or near finish (like some kind of acceptance) with his painting, then theres a problem. He's trying to get to the unattainable and that's causes big problems.

Iliftrocks · 12-18-2003, 01:13 PM

I could give a rat's patootie how I look, for the most part. I love lifting, and the strength has come in handy when I've had to move myself and my family, and friends, etc. But I don't lift so I can be a better helper.

I lift because I feel like a friggin monster everytime I add weight to the bar. I love the looks on the norms that walk by me in the gym cringing with fear at the scary man lifting 10 time what they'll ever get into the air hhaaahahaahah mwaaahahaahah.

Hmm maybe I do like the looks after all.

All the sudden I want to shave my head and grow a goatee

Rodney · 12-18-2003, 08:18 PM

I'm 48, and I'm not exactly a bodybuilding champ, but I'm 'way bigger and stronger than I need to be, because I don't do physical labor for a living and I'm not active in strenuous sports, beyond bicycling. So why do this? Because it makes me feel not old. I may not be as fast as I used to be, but I'm stronger and more flexible than I ever was. I can lift anything I need to lift and do anything I need to do. And at my age, a lot of guys just don't keep themselves up and start the long slide into old age. By doing what I do, I feel as physically competent as I did 20-25 years ago, when I still had nature on my side.

Having a lot of muscle also makes me feel better in general. Before I put it all on, I used to get sick more often. Not any more. I don't get cold very easily, and I have more energy than before. And frankly, a good heavy workout just relieves tension something fierce, which is another help if you want to live to a good, healthy old age.

It's nice to be big, and there's some narcissism there maybe. But it's more about staying me -- staying strong, staying competent, and staying safe.

ronan · 12-18-2003, 09:17 PM

Sleepyjack why people train hard for no reason as you basically put it is none of your concern, how about you go mind your own business instead of worring about other peoples or better yet go back to sitting on your couch with a can of beer.

Sleepyjack · 12-18-2003, 10:31 PM

Quote:

ronan better yet go back to sitting on your couch with a can of beer.

trust me, if i wasn't in relatively good shape myself, there's no way i would have the audacity to post this

I imagine that sitting on the coach with beer, implied a degre of laziness and slob- like nature. Although i maybe look a bit like a bum sometimes, i am not a slob or anything

Anyway, djp has already provided more sound evidance than my observations, that they're may be a problem with this. Read the article again to see what i mean? That's basically what i was getting at. Sure it's none of my business, but i just wanted to make people aware of it, andthat there may be a problem. Also i am a philanthropist by anture, so it's naturally a concern to care and worry about my fellow men and women

to all you peoepl who say they feel great, stronger and just the euphoria od it, after a workout. Fucking great!

BUT if you're constantly pining over your looks and fretting about that and nothing else, really..... there may be a problem? As i've said already, it's like the strong man equilivant of anorexia!

thanks for your time

charlesesl · 12-19-2003, 11:31 PM

They way that I see it, bodybuilding is a positive thing as long as you dont over do it. As long as you are not the type that stick needles up your ass before every work just to inject some sypashisized hormones or the type that regulate their fat intake so much that their heart starts to eat itself you will be find. Bodyduilding benefits health, increased confidence so a little more muscle wouldnt hurt. The olimpia competators on the other hand are way over board. With their kind of muscle mass, their range of motion is greatly reduced, also its not healthy for the body to digest way more food than it should just to maintain a massive amounts of muscle mass.(look up kidney failure)

Oh yeah, you are want to know how to draw the line between deication and obsession check out the teenage bodybuilding section in forums.bodybuilding.com most of them are mentally ill people.

pazza · 12-20-2003, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sleepyjack
get stronger, such that they can just get through their next set?
Work out, just so you can get through your next work out? eh? wtf?

Hmm sounds like you stole that from an old Seinfeld joke.

Sleepyjack · 12-20-2003, 06:23 AM

Quote:

pazza said
Hmm sounds like you stole that from an old Seinfeld joke.

yeah, sorry, i should reference these things

Plan9Senior · 12-20-2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sleepyjack

BUT if you're constantly pining over your looks and fretting about that and nothing else, really..... there may be a problem? As i've said already, it's like the strong man equilivant of anorexia!

thanks for your time

I think your argument is totally nonsensical. Comparing lifting weights with anorexia? Too funny. You are digging yourself deeper and reaching for something to grab but you have come up short

.

ronan · 12-20-2003, 03:11 PM

charlesesl you are an idiot.

Plan9Senior · 12-20-2003, 03:56 PM

This thread keeps going downhill. I think perhaps that was its intention anyhow. Anyway, a mod should lock it methinks.

hy_ · 12-20-2003, 05:31 PM

what's the point to have money and not spending it?
what's the point to have a body and not enhance it?

you have a body, and it's made for muscles :P let your body have the fun it deserves.

Sleepyjack · 12-20-2003, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Plan9 said
I think your argument is totally nonsensical. Comparing lifting weights with anorexia? Too funny. You are digging yourself deeper and reaching for something to grab but you have come up short .

bah!

NO it's merely the connection of both being mental issues with a health context. ON one hand, anorexics don't eat food to get really, really skinny and then some guys want to obtain this huge (almost unattaiunable) mas of muscle and constatnly pump weights and taKe other artifical substances to get there.

Although of course, like anorexics they're never satisified with themselves, which can get quite unhealthy. Thats the similarity? just a mental thing, in which they try to reach some kind of absoluette figure

Did anyone read the article djp posted??? Thats what it's about...

Quote:

djp posted:
TORONTO – While eating disorders among athletes are often seen as a problem mainly for women, some male athletes may also have their own issues regarding body image, new research suggests.
But the eating and body image problems for men may be different than they are for women.

A pilot survey of elite male athletes at one university found that about one in five believed they aren’t sufficiently muscular. While female athletes in the study said they wanted to lose weight (an average of 6.8 pounds), men wanted to gain weight – an average of 3.2 pounds.

“Some male athletes see pictures in men’s fitness magazines of big, extremely muscular men and feel that they don’t measure up,” said Jennifer Carter, a psychologist at the Ohio State University Sports Medicine Center.

Carter, who works with athletes at Ohio State, conducted this study of 882 athletes at the university, 57 percent of whom were men. She presented the results August 8 in Toronto at the annual meeting of the American Psychological Association.

If male athletes feel they are not lean and muscular enough – and combine that with unhealthy behaviors, such as use of performance-enhancing drugs – it could result in a body image disorder known as muscle dysmorphia.

This study showed that about 1.1 percent of male athletes may suffer from this disorder. Carter said this is one of the first studies to ask male athletes questions that could support such a diagnosis.

“There hasn’t been a lot of research about eating disorders among male athletes, but I think it may be a growing problem,” Carter said.
“I don’t have male athletes approaching me to say they have an eating disorder, but I do see athletes who say they are concerned about their body and want to be bigger and more muscular.

Sometimes their desire to be more muscular has little to do with improving their athletic performance.”

The survey asked several questions intended to find out what body image issues men had and what they were doing to become more muscular. Results showed:

9 percent reported using performance-enhancing drugs or substances, such as creatine.

5 percent said they avoided situations where they had to expose their bodies, such as wearing a swimsuit.

4 percent reported they are preoccupied about the inadequacy of their body size and have significant distress or impairment as a result.

4 percent said they frequently give up important activities because of their workout or diet schedule.

The study of muscle dysmorphia in men is still relatively new, spurred by research by Harrison Pope and published in his book “The Adonis Complex,” Carter said. Muscle dysmorphia is not yet recognized as an official psychiatric disorder, mainly because there has been little research of the issue yet.

However, Carter said more attention needs to be focused on the problem.

“The issue for some men is meeting this ideal of the muscular bodybuilders they see in fitness magazines,” she said. “One thing we like to discuss with the male athletes is that these bodybuilders may be on steroids and their bodies may be unattainable without chemical assistance.”

This study, done in 2002, was the second yearly study Carter has done with athletes at the university. In both years, fewer than 2 percent had diagnosable eating disorders. Higher numbers showed symptoms associated with eating disorders – such as binge-eating and purging – but not severe enough to be listed as a disorder. The good news, Carter said, is that the percentage of athletes showing these symptoms declined from 2001 to 2002, from 15 percent to 12 percent.

In this year’s study, Carter also looked specifically at athletes in lean sports – sports in which there is added pressure to be lean for aesthetic or performance reasons. This includes sports such as gymnastics, swimming, diving, cross country and track.

The findings showed that 17.5 percent of athletes in lean sports showed symptoms of eating disorders, compared to 9.2 percent of athletes in non-lean sports, such as basketball, football and hockey.

“Even for the lean sports, there is not evidence that thinness equals better performance, Carter said. “But athletes in the lean sports feel added pressure to be thin, and may resort to unhealthy behaviors to achieve thin bodies.”

Also don't feel offended if you work out so you can get a bit bigger or look better, whatever. Just that, if it becomes some kind of compulsive disorder, where anything can happen, by doing stuff excessively, then that's where a problems can occur... i imagine?
Basically going beyond what's healthy to get to this state.

almostaugust · 12-20-2003, 08:55 PM

Good points sleepyjack. It always makes me smile when i come across overdeveloped guys who have the dexterity of of a kitchen fridge. Ill see guys at the gym or dojo, that look pretty fearsome- but cant do anything practicle with thier bulk besides lifting a certain piece of metal in a certain way. I was just thinking this yesterday, when this huge cut tatooed guy couldnt get halfway through a fitness session at a boxing class. Its reminds alot of that black guy from the most recent survivor series- Osten. I do agree though that looking after yourself is a good thing though, but when it becomes something that is totally cosmetic its a bit stupid.

Plan9Senior · 12-21-2003, 03:46 AM

you guys seriously have too much hate towards us that work out. Feeling a bit lesser then us? /shrug... I dont understand.

Sleepyjack · 12-21-2003, 09:52 PM

bah! how come everyone assimilate working out and the gym?

I don't hate people who work out, cause i do as well

Also, i like the Osten remark. He was one of the biggest pussy's i've ever seen. It was funny to see him wimp out like that, good for a laugh. Sure he was soooooo pretty, but what could he do with his strength anyway? He was getting schooled by Rupert in each strength challenge and also got beaten by that blonde chick when they were suspending weights from their shoulders. I wonder that he even had as much muscle as he appeared to have. Cause it cetainly didn't seem that way

I don't feel less than guys like Osten (he wasn't that big anyway, just had huge tits

) or guys bigger still, aside from the mental thing i've talked to tedium about before, theres also the aspect that they don't really do anything practical with their strength. Although that's none of my business, it's just a shame to see it go to waste, especially with such an excessive amount.

hmmm i think this may be a little hpercritical in hindsight cause i am probably a little to big myself, but at least i actually do more practical things than look good

like, i moved about a tonne (1000kg) of wood yesterday. That's some hard yakka

charlesesl · 12-23-2003, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ronan
charlesesl you are an idiot.

I guess you are one of those people who bash others to feel better

ronan · 12-23-2003, 03:12 PM

no, im one of those people that if i dont know what im talking about i keep my mouth shut.

charlesesl · 12-23-2003, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ronan
no, im one of those people that if i dont know what im talking about i keep my mouth shut.

Then please point out which part of my openion does no make sence instead of insulting me for being stupid. Or are u just to enlightened (self rightous) to do so.

ronan · 12-23-2003, 11:18 PM

you are an idiot.

you have noidea what you are talking about, you have never competed in your life, you have never done of cycle of steroids in your life and obviously you have never trained hard in your life.

im not going to sit here and educate you and quite frankly i dont care what your warped opinion is just dont come post bs on a public forum and state an opinion on a topic you have noidea about.

you are obviously into this health thing among alot of people on this forum which is fine to each there own but dont come and post shit.

last post about this from me.

Plan9Senior · 12-24-2003, 01:10 AM

I wish I had the power to close topics... this one would be closed long ago. gg mods =/.

Sleepyjack · 12-24-2003, 01:38 AM

I knew this wasn't a popular idea and people are divided on it, but it doesn't mean the thread should be closed?

Moreso, now people have started to bicker a bit

Just asserting, it should be for the latter and not former!

12-15-2003, 07:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sleepyjack Fast'n'Bulbous Location: Australia, Perth	Waste of Muscle? Sometimes i am a little bemused to why people strive and pine to get all muscular, when they have no real or apparent need for it? Sure, it's good to get into shape, figuratively speaking, but why get sooooo excessive on it? When these people don't put their muscles to use, to do anything but either walk around all macho in public, or get stronger, such that they can just get through their next set? Work out, just so you can get through your next work out? eh? wtf? Sure, lots of people work out for their job, or other occupation as they might need the extra physicality, but over the last week or so, i've run into 3 guys, seemingly working out and fretting about themselves all for nothing, just to get big muscles... sigh Just seems like a big waste, it'd be good if they did something witht them, other than just getting through their next work out? and looking all pretty. Quite a mindless cycle....? For an anology, it's like saving up lots of money, but never spending it on anything? Sure, it's probably good to say "oh wow, i've got all this money, LOOK AT ME" but they never do anything productive with it? I'd think though, that trying to get so bulky etc, would end up being a burden in the end, if you hvae nothing prodcutive to do with yourself? Like no sports or any other real physical activity. All these gym rats (that doens't mean everyone who goes to the gym) make my mind boggle a bit? seems such a pointless excercise? Just today at basketball, i had one of these guys (who was watching the game from the other team) approach me after our game and he was talking about his gym workout and what i may do ( i don't go to the gym, eveyone seems bemused at that?), but i quickly found out, he doesn't really do anything (other than wokrout, office job, no other sports?), other than workout and excessively. For no real purpose...He's the main reason i did this little rant, if you can call it that? This isn't an attack on any one who does some common trianing, nor trains excessively with something else in mind. Moreso, some of the guys who go overboard with it and get way too excessive, given they don't really have any purpose for being so big? Also, people who want to start working out, always want to know how long it takes to get "big" or whatever. It's not that good in the end, cause you have to eat so much fucking food, lol I know, it's their decision and all, but sometimes i can't fathom why they do or want to do that? I know it basically goes to the idea of looking good, but when you get to that sorta of neanderthal/caveman stage, i really don't understand why they still fret so much? maybe they should all metaphorically "learn to swim" (taken from tool's anema song ) ok i am hitting submit

12-15-2003, 10:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
SiNai Dreams In Digital Location: Iowa	Well, some people actually compete as bodybuilders, but those that don't actually have a goal to compete, well.. There's probably some narcissistic drive in most of them, and are too stubborn to stop where they are- they keep wanting to achieve perfection? To get bigger and bigger and bigger? I agree, really huge people look.. funny. There's a guy that rides his bike all over my campus, he must be 35 or so, bursting out of a pink tank top- Obviously he looks stupid, but maybe he thinks that he's "The shit"? I don't know. __________________ I can't seem to remember now What it was like- to live life, before you.. symbiont

12-18-2003, 02:05 AM	#11 (permalink)
seizei Purple Monkey Dishwasher Location: CFB Gagetown, NB, CANADA	Does a painter stop painting because his current work is 'good enough'? No - the betterment of one's skill and ability is the pursuit. The challenge of striving upwards to more difficult tasks is exciting to many people who dedicate themselves to something. It's the same with working out. When you are in the gym on a daily basis scupting your body, there is no point when you think 'gee, I'm done now, I'm perfect!'. There is always something you can improve, some obstacle to overcome, or a challenge to meet. I do understand your point about training for no apparent purpose. My own training is tailored around the martial arts tournament circuit. For those who only work out though - I refer to my previous analogy... what is the point of painting pictures? they don't do anything but look nice... but what was gained in the process of painting them? Self-realization, discipline to keep trying, and an expression of oneself. I say that non-physical growth, and not the end physical result, is the real benefit of intense training. __________________ "If you're not weird, you're not interesting". I'm very interesting ... seizei; (adv - Japanese) at the most; at best; to the utmost; as much (far) as possible. (pronounced - say-zay)

12-18-2003, 01:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
Iliftrocks Junkie Location: Near Raleigh, NC	I could give a rat's patootie how I look, for the most part. I love lifting, and the strength has come in handy when I've had to move myself and my family, and friends, etc. But I don't lift so I can be a better helper. I lift because I feel like a friggin monster everytime I add weight to the bar. I love the looks on the norms that walk by me in the gym cringing with fear at the scary man lifting 10 time what they'll ever get into the air hhaaahahaahah mwaaahahaahah. Hmm maybe I do like the looks after all. All the sudden I want to shave my head and grow a goatee __________________ bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

12-18-2003, 09:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
ronan Crazy Location: Australia	Sleepyjack why people train hard for no reason as you basically put it is none of your concern, how about you go mind your own business instead of worring about other peoples or better yet go back to sitting on your couch with a can of beer. __________________ i am enlightened

12-15-2003, 08:44 AM	#2 (permalink)
perth1 Crazy	i guess some people find it fun! my old man has more money than he could spend, yet he still wheels and deals and tries to make more. why? cos its fun! different people get adrenaline from different things i guess. i have never seen the point in getting stupid big, i think it looks ugly. but hey, there are chicks that dig big muscles!

12-15-2003, 11:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	I like muscles for the looks, but I also do use them in sports & various other things where it's useful having the strength. To be honest, there's an ego-boost with the gaining of size. Much less, the feeling of power. Muscles also burn fat more efficiently, now I don't agree with those who overdo it, However, everyone has got that one thing they are into. For some it's bodybuilding, with others it's computers, others it's comics. Whatever floats your boat.

12-15-2003, 12:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Plan9Senior Banned Location: Orange County, California	Some people like to take pride in their appearance. If you say you have a nice physique and you dont workout, thank your genetics but also realize that most people have to work to stay in shape. There are many many reasons as to why myself and others toss iron around everyday in the gym from looking and feeling good to just enjoying it as a hobby. I honestly take offense in your post...came across as a pretty ignorant thing to write.

12-15-2003, 04:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sleepyjack Fast'n'Bulbous Location: Australia, Perth	I am not suggesting everyone who goes to the gym is like this? but i ran into a few guys this week, who don't really do anything else with their huge frames, other than just work out some more. And it forms this endless cycle? People also can do it (this excessiveness) without going to the gym as well, 'cause i work out at home, so it's not just people who go to the gym, just the ones who don't really seem to do anything with their strength (in terms of some kind of job or maybe sport/recreational thing), other than more working out, bemuse me a little? Just overall seems a waste of strength to me? Like you say its a hobby and all, and i guess it is for me as well, cause i actually hvae fun working out (who'da thunk it?), i am overall saying it just seems like a waste and a shame that they don't really do anything productive with their strength? That was my general observation. And it's mainly aimed at the excessiveness of some people, as their could be excessiveness with anything which could seem like a waste. I juts think it's amazing what some people will excessivley do, JUST for looks really? I mean, this can kinda stem onto unnecessary plastic surgery as well... I remember seeing on 60 mintues, a simialr thing i was talking about, where this guy was fretting for his diet etc and worked out everyday, which was good, but he would go as far as to get calf implants, which make his calf muscles look bigger, with no real added strength or anything. I was amazed at it all? It's these sorta people, and their fretting about of looks, i am mainly aiming at in this post. Overall i encourage working out as well, but sometimes people seem to overstep the line, in what is appopriate and maybe healthy (maybe both physically and mentally) for them?

12-16-2003, 05:37 AM	#9 (permalink)
Sleepyjack Fast'n'Bulbous Location: Australia, Perth	yep, great link djp that's the kinda guys i am talking about. Cool, good to know as well. I've always suspected theres a lot of guys with "The Adonis Complex", albeit i sometimes thought of it as the anorexic equilivant for guys, meaning the health/mental illness equilivant. Of course, like anorexia, it's all bought and portrayed through the media as ideal body images for the sexes. Just like girls have the slender/skinny look, guys always have the six pack and big muscular body type pushed on them. Hopefully this disorder will get more attention! This was pretty much what i was aiming at with this thread. GOod to get more concrete stuff on it, other than my whimisical opinions/observations

12-18-2003, 01:08 AM	#10 (permalink)
Plan9Senior Banned Location: Orange County, California	Obsessed is another word "the lazy" use to describe the dedicated. Remember this.

12-18-2003, 08:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	I'm 48, and I'm not exactly a bodybuilding champ, but I'm 'way bigger and stronger than I need to be, because I don't do physical labor for a living and I'm not active in strenuous sports, beyond bicycling. So why do this? Because it makes me feel not old. I may not be as fast as I used to be, but I'm stronger and more flexible than I ever was. I can lift anything I need to lift and do anything I need to do. And at my age, a lot of guys just don't keep themselves up and start the long slide into old age. By doing what I do, I feel as physically competent as I did 20-25 years ago, when I still had nature on my side. Having a lot of muscle also makes me feel better in general. Before I put it all on, I used to get sick more often. Not any more. I don't get cold very easily, and I have more energy than before. And frankly, a good heavy workout just relieves tension something fierce, which is another help if you want to live to a good, healthy old age. It's nice to be big, and there's some narcissism there maybe. But it's more about staying me -- staying strong, staying competent, and staying safe.

12-19-2003, 11:31 PM	#17 (permalink)
charlesesl Psycho	They way that I see it, bodybuilding is a positive thing as long as you dont over do it. As long as you are not the type that stick needles up your ass before every work just to inject some sypashisized hormones or the type that regulate their fat intake so much that their heart starts to eat itself you will be find. Bodyduilding benefits health, increased confidence so a little more muscle wouldnt hurt. The olimpia competators on the other hand are way over board. With their kind of muscle mass, their range of motion is greatly reduced, also its not healthy for the body to digest way more food than it should just to maintain a massive amounts of muscle mass.(look up kidney failure) Oh yeah, you are want to know how to draw the line between deication and obsession check out the teenage bodybuilding section in forums.bodybuilding.com most of them are mentally ill people. __________________ It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. Dr. Viktor E. Frankl

12-20-2003, 03:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
ronan Crazy Location: Australia	charlesesl you are an idiot. __________________ i am enlightened

12-20-2003, 03:56 PM	#22 (permalink)
Plan9Senior Banned Location: Orange County, California	This thread keeps going downhill. I think perhaps that was its intention anyhow. Anyway, a mod should lock it methinks.

12-20-2003, 05:31 PM	#23 (permalink)
hy_ Crazy	what's the point to have money and not spending it? what's the point to have a body and not enhance it? you have a body, and it's made for muscles :P let your body have the fun it deserves.

12-20-2003, 08:55 PM	#25 (permalink)
almostaugust Junkie Location: Oz	Good points sleepyjack. It always makes me smile when i come across overdeveloped guys who have the dexterity of of a kitchen fridge. Ill see guys at the gym or dojo, that look pretty fearsome- but cant do anything practicle with thier bulk besides lifting a certain piece of metal in a certain way. I was just thinking this yesterday, when this huge cut tatooed guy couldnt get halfway through a fitness session at a boxing class. Its reminds alot of that black guy from the most recent survivor series- Osten. I do agree though that looking after yourself is a good thing though, but when it becomes something that is totally cosmetic its a bit stupid. __________________ 'And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe Maybe this year will be better than the last I can't remember all the times I tried to tell my myself To hold on to these moments as they pass'

12-21-2003, 03:46 AM	#26 (permalink)
Plan9Senior Banned Location: Orange County, California	you guys seriously have too much hate towards us that work out. Feeling a bit lesser then us? /shrug... I dont understand.

12-21-2003, 09:52 PM	#27 (permalink)
Sleepyjack Fast'n'Bulbous Location: Australia, Perth	bah! how come everyone assimilate working out and the gym? I don't hate people who work out, cause i do as well Also, i like the Osten remark. He was one of the biggest pussy's i've ever seen. It was funny to see him wimp out like that, good for a laugh. Sure he was soooooo pretty, but what could he do with his strength anyway? He was getting schooled by Rupert in each strength challenge and also got beaten by that blonde chick when they were suspending weights from their shoulders. I wonder that he even had as much muscle as he appeared to have. Cause it cetainly didn't seem that way I don't feel less than guys like Osten (he wasn't that big anyway, just had huge tits ) or guys bigger still, aside from the mental thing i've talked to tedium about before, theres also the aspect that they don't really do anything practical with their strength. Although that's none of my business, it's just a shame to see it go to waste, especially with such an excessive amount. hmmm i think this may be a little hpercritical in hindsight cause i am probably a little to big myself, but at least i actually do more practical things than look good like, i moved about a tonne (1000kg) of wood yesterday. That's some hard yakka Last edited by Sleepyjack; 12-21-2003 at 09:55 PM..

12-23-2003, 03:12 PM	#29 (permalink)
ronan Crazy Location: Australia	no, im one of those people that if i dont know what im talking about i keep my mouth shut. __________________ i am enlightened

12-23-2003, 11:18 PM	#31 (permalink)
ronan Crazy Location: Australia	you are an idiot. you have noidea what you are talking about, you have never competed in your life, you have never done of cycle of steroids in your life and obviously you have never trained hard in your life. im not going to sit here and educate you and quite frankly i dont care what your warped opinion is just dont come post bs on a public forum and state an opinion on a topic you have noidea about. you are obviously into this health thing among alot of people on this forum which is fine to each there own but dont come and post shit. last post about this from me. __________________ i am enlightened

12-24-2003, 01:10 AM	#32 (permalink)
Plan9Senior Banned Location: Orange County, California	I wish I had the power to close topics... this one would be closed long ago. gg mods =/.

12-24-2003, 01:38 AM	#33 (permalink)
Sleepyjack Fast'n'Bulbous Location: Australia, Perth	I knew this wasn't a popular idea and people are divided on it, but it doesn't mean the thread should be closed? Moreso, now people have started to bicker a bit Just asserting, it should be for the latter and not former!