Dartma

I have done some bad things, and I feel that I need to correct them somehow..

The people that have been affected are not available to be reached at ALL,
and I feel like I need to do something good to relieve this horrible feeling inside of me.

Any ideas?

Sheepy

do you feel the good you need to do has to be connected to them or just anything?

buy a tone of cards, write happy easter in them each with maybe a small chocolate egg and hand them out to strangers!

Jove

Write them an old school letter with an apology and mail it to them. Or you can always email them the apology.

Baraka_Guru

If they are unreachable and it is virtually impossible for you to somehow make up for your past mistakes directly, you can deal with the karma indirectly. Consider the nature of your mistakes and then consider what the opposite action would be. Take the bad, and realize what good neutralizes it. By doing these actions for yourself and for others, you will work on your existing karma.

For example, if you stole from someone but cannot reach them to give back to them, consider donating to charities, giving to those in need.

If you physically hurt someone, practice being nonviolent in every way towards yourself and to others. Consider again giving to charities, this time to those who work with battered women and children.

There are many ways to work with your karma without necessarily dealing with those you have hurt in the past. The key is to discover your compassion and to work on your past ignorance.

Do this towards yourself first and then expand it towards others----this can be both towards those close to you and to complete strangers, indeed it should.

Above all else, you must learn to forgive yourself. Without this forgiveness, the karma will remain. Self-compassion is tied to compassion for others.

[Edit: Yeah, so I just realized the OP was banned. No problem, these responses are for the benefit of anyone who can read them!]

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

The_Jazz

You deserve the bad things - you're a spammer.

Sorry, everyone else. I just hate spammers.

I hope everyone else can save this thread.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Plan9

Sheeit, I won't try to save this false start thread, but I'll toss in some emo with the sinking ship:

Don't believe in karma. I believe we are what we do. We feel what we allow ourselves to feel.

That said, I'm a huge pussy and will be forever haunted by the bad choices I made years ago.

I can't forgive myself for things that were done or left undone. It's been way too damn long.

I'm always guilt tripping myself into going overboard today to compensate for yesterday.

This method has worked well for me. Being the Type A Savior I've become? Lucrative.

I have everything I wanted and... the funny thing is... now I can't bear to be around it.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Craven Morehead

Send me all of your money, it will an incredibly cleansing experience for you. And one of us will be happy afterwards. Other than that there isn't much you dou about the past except to use it to make a better future.

PM me for my address.

WhoaitsZ

Just do good things. I believe in karma... but sometimes it doesn't feel like it believes in us.

Watch My Name is Earl!

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

Oh yeah. forgive yourself then turn your life around. Do not expect much good if you hold onto self loathing.

cadre

That is karma.

The first step for people like the op pretends to be is to forgive yourself. As others have said, you have to make up for things you did to yourself before you can make it up to others.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

Plan9

No, that's hocus pocus bullshit with a squirt of sweaty regret on top. Magic and emotion... the ethereal unicorn farts of our psyches.

These are the lies we tell ourselves because we can't figure out why we have a hole in our heart and we need to believe in something.

It's not a case of half empty or half full... it's case of it just being there. That's the hard part of the whole thing. The lack of reason and explanation.

My inability to get over certain issues isn't karma, it's me being a psychological worry wart. I don't believe in balance or karma or Jesus or the eight vibrant colors of my Shakra. Justice is a concept that doesn't exist outside of the confines of textbooks and personal feelings. Healing is 50% acceptance and 50% forgetfulness. Additionally, I don't have regrets about some things and yet do about others. Can we pick and choose our magical beliefs or what? Am I allowed to hate my exwife and miss another partner? Am I allowed to be cool with killing flies but not spiders? I don't believe in karma.

You can't "pay it back" and "paying it forward" misses the point. There is no compensation. There is no justice. An everyman's religion.

It's my belief that people are confused meat driven by chemical reactions with the burden of fantastic memory and the hurdle of a long history.

Instead of swinging like a pendulum from being a total dick to being a manic saint, just be a 1% better person.

We are what we do is... well... It is what it is. Whatever the hell that is.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Lindy

Part of the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous:

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make
amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do
so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly
admitted it.

Very helpful to me, even though I was just the wife of the alcoholic, I did some very hurtful things to people that I loved and cared for. No. 10 helps me not be like the Catholic who goes to confession, and then goes out to sin some more. I don't do the amends for the victims. I do them for me. It's why I still go to the occasional AA or Alanon meeting.

Lindy

Lindy

Baraka_Guru

Karma is closer to the mark than your formula, wherever you got that from.

How's that forgetfulness working for you? I'll ask you again in 10 years, then 20, then 30....

You can choose to disbelieve in karma, but there's a problem with that: karma simply refers to our actions and their cause and effect. It refers to the psychological stock we take in these things.

You can choose to disbelieve in it, except it won't go away. You can try to forget, but things tend to come back.

The ironic thing about your response is that it seems nearly a confirmation of karmic influences, the problem is you either a) don't want to accept the parts of it you have difficulty with, or b) you don't fully understand what is meant by the thing we label "karma";

It's not hocus-pocus mystical forces. It's a religious/spiritual labeling of certain things that scientists/researchers/doctors label as something else.

It is what it is. We are what we do. Very auspicious. We should all meditate on that.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

What about what I said above was confusing? I know I'm retarded... so help me out here.

...

Karma:

I kill a man in a heated moment. I feel bad about it. I do XYZ to make myself feel better about it. I do XYZ to "repay" family/society/etc. The legal order maintenance function fulfills the emotional order maintenance function.

No Karma:

I kill a man in the heated moment. I don't feel bad about it. I continue on in life no differently than when I started after the legal order maintenance function is done with me. Society's demand for "justice" goes unanswered in the karma sense.

(Both scenarios: In twenty years... almost nobody remembers anyway.)

How can both realities exist? They can't... because "nobody" (Jesus/Allah/Jeff) is keeping track. We only keep tabs on ourselves, bro.

The idea of karma/luck/fate/justice/Baby Jeebus is that somebody is keeping track. Nobody is keeping track.

Technology killed god. TeeVee killed culture. Ego killed karma.

You have to have faith in these systems for them to work.

And I don't believe in them.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

The only one who keeps track of karma is yourself. That's my point.

It's like you're saying you don't believe in karma; you believe in this thing that's kinda like karma instead. It's like you believe in karma but don't want to call it karma, which is why I was wondering if you even understand what karma is.

For one's ego to kill karma is tantamount to becoming a sociopath, which is a serious disorder of the mind.

Karma isn't luck; karma isn't fate; karma isn't justice; karma is what you do and how your mind realizes it.

Disbelieving in karma is like disbelieving in pleasure because you'd rather just call it that chemical stuff in your brain. Still, that doesn't make it go away.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

I'm too stupid to articulate my point but it's something along the lines of "It's Kicked Dog syndrome, not karma."

Maybe somebody else understands where I'm going with this. Too much drama and too little detail in my first post.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Fine.

It's just that I find that most people misunderstand karma. They think it's some mystical force that balances things out in the end. Like somehow bad things will happen to bad people and vice versa, which is a corruption of the idea. Bad thoughts happen to bad people might be more accurate.

It's like how most westerners who say they're "into yoga" should instead be saying their into yoga poses for exercise, a kind of gymnastics to keep in shape. Most yoga studios have services and instruction regarding one, maybe two, and at most three or four limbs of yoga. There are eight. When people talk about yoga, they're usually taking about one limb: poses (asanas) and maybe a second limb: breath control (pranayama). I think most studios strip out all that annoying philosophy of life stuff. Otherwise, the practitioners wouldn't be able to go for an organic salad topped with chicken after their sesh of hot fat-shredder power ab-blaster yoga with weights. A true yogi would try to become a vegetarian, and the prime reason has little to do with their own bodies. This is because yoga isn't exercise. Exercise is a part of yoga.

My point? We westerners tend to corrupt all that "hocus pocus" eastern stuff. Ironically, though, that eastern stuff if left intact and unpacked for what it is has great value. If only we just wrap our minds around it.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Well, you know me, dude: Ignorant American to the core. So there is no such creature as "good karma" and "bad karma?"

I'm using the wrong words to describe the concept, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person in the thread doing such.

Silly semantics aside, I just can't party with a philosophy that says we all hold ourselves responsible for our actions.

That sounds like the "all people are inherently good" and "moral imperative" droners you get in an ethics class.

First time you see something that makes you certain that people aren't inherently good... people aren't inherently good anymore.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

When we refer to "good karma" and "bad karma," it should be in reference to how it affects us. As a simple example, if I decide to take my dog for an extra long walk today because I've been ignoring her lately, that would be good karma. If instead, I decide to beat her because she was annoying me, as she needed more exercise, that would be bad karma. These are actions of my own accord, and my mind would react differently to them.

A healthy human being (mentally) would respond beneficially to doing the extra good for the dog, and they would feel terrible about beating the dog. You'd have to be depressed or otherwise out of sorts to feel annoyed or frustrated at having to walk your dog to help it burn off the nervous energy that's affecting it and giving it a great time at the park. A sociopath would possibly take pleasure in beating the dog.

We don't necessarily hold ourselves responsible for our actions. Actually, the reality is that we often eschew responsibility. Sometimes this is just water under the bridge, but other times it's baggage. Until we deal with this baggage, many of us will simply carry it with us. Sometimes we put it into a hall closet, other times we cart it up into the attic, but in the end we know it's there no matter where we put it. The human mind is complex, and as much as we'd like to think we have mastery over it, most of us don't. We might forget about the baggage for a time, but it's still there, and we will often trip over it and hurt ourselves at rather inopportune times.

And that, in the end, is the action of karma.

The discussion of whether we're inherently good seems like a completely different topic. What do you mean we aren't inherently good anymore? Do you think this is because of bad karma?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

EventHorizon

depends on your religious beliefs though doesn't it? Even if all religions are fictitious, what the worst that could happen from doing XYZ to make yourself feel better? you repay society and make it a better place for no reward? i'm not saying that i would personally fess up but usually honesty is the best policy

unless you're facing a 44. magnum... the most powerful handgun in the world and you need to tell someone whether you're feeling lucky or not.

__________________
Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

cadre

Thank you baraka! The way people talk about karma in the west really bugs me (as a practicing buddhist). Plan9 believes in karma, he just doesn't realize it since he has no idea what karma actually is. Maybe one day will understand eastern theology but that is not this day.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

Plan9

Again, Cadre... I don't. If I'm an ignorant Westerner that believes roadside bombs kill whoever the fuck they want... karma need not apply.

Just for complete disclosure, I've been playing Devil's advocate here for this entire thread to the point of absurdity, but let's continue:

All this zen horseshit is killing me. Bad things don't necessarily happen to bad people. Good things don't necessarily happen to good people. As far as I see it, it's just random chance and you're either prepared or you're not. Shit happens. I'm a lowbrow. I need tangible examples of this karma thing in action. I need some kind of proof that, uh, David Koresh was loaded with bad karma. Is this all good vs. evil? Suggesting that good/evil exists is like suggesting that one of Baraka's D12s is an acceptable way to decide whether or not your child is going to be an astronaut when they grow up.

[repost of the Richard Bachman quote from above]

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

This is true, and karma plays a role in this. How you respond to shit happens will be based on your current karmic state, and the outcomes will affect this state either positively or negatively. Sometimes you make your own shit happen, which will also have an effect on karma.

At the risk of oversimplifying, karma is essentially an umbrella term for all of the psychological processes that go on in our minds. There is no real direct translation for the word, and it's packed with all kinds of aspects. Good and evil can be reduced to "good" and "bad" actions. While much of that might be relative to the thinker, there are many good and bad actions that are universally known. In a general sense, causing someone misery is bad, and reducing their misery is good. There's no simpler way of putting it.

So to summarize: karma isn't the shit that happens to you; it's the shit you do.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Gotcha. Whew. This thread is enough to make someone wanna self-immolate.

...

Who knew there was such a Far East movement going on here? New fad?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Okay, so does this mean that you're ready to discuss dharma and samsara?

But, seriously, I think that if you would take karma in a non-religious view and look at the core concepts, most people would see it as something useful. Unfortunately, working with these concepts can be quite difficult.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

I'm totally not looking at it from a strictly religious standpoint. I lumped karma in with luck/fate/religion/etc. I guess I didn't stress that enough above.

Superstitions. Systems of belief used to explain why X happens, systems of belief used to justify right and wrong as a way to create stability.

The problem with these types of things is that there is no magnetic north. We don't have even a semi fixed universal indicator of karmic direction.

...

That and I find it hilarious that materialistic white people on the Internet are acting snobby about the philosophy of emptiness.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

The traditions responsible for developing the idea of karma didn't do so from superstition. I speak mainly from the Buddhist perspective, which is largely concerned with empiricism and observing reality, both external and in the mind.

This is why I object to your view of karma as hocus-pocus. Working with karma is about working with reality, with what you see and experience. It's a personal thing.

Buddhists would call superstitious views delusion. It always comes back to cause and effect—you know, the opposite of The Secret.

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------

Even Buddhists acknowledge the role of materialism.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Lindy

As you sow, so shall you reap. What goes around comes around. Some times it comes around and bites you in the ass.
Karma as defined by my great uncle Donald. A cowboy in Oklahoma.

Lindy

cadre

You're right, bad thngs don't necessarily happen to bad people. I live by karma and I try hard to show everyone the same loving kindness. But still I've been the victim of violence and now I may have lung cancer even though I have no risk factors. Life sucks that way and trust me when I say we agree on this more than you think we do.

You guys are forgetting an important aspect of karma that takes place between lives though and I suppose that if you don't believe in rebirth then you don't need to worry about that part of karma. The rest of it is just a way of viewing reality, not an alternate one (if that makes sense).

Edit: by the way, I am not suggesting that I am an expert or that I am even a 'good' buddhist, I struggle every day. Buddhism has made me a better, stronger person and it has gotten me through some hard times. If you don't agree with the principles that's fine but I don't want to see them skewed to fit misconceptions or prejudice.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

Ourcrazymodern?

Karma hasn't hurt me any, yet, that I know of. It's ignored me. Soooo, just like anything else that can't be proven, I think it isn't. It doesn't seem to mind, the lovely concept that it is, whatever evils I might have done, including agreeing with Plan9's statements, overall.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

lunxpress

Usually hurt people do hurtful things. Try to accept your accidents and misgivings and do better now.

I don’t think you have to go to great lengths to pay it forward. It seems sort of insincere to give to the poor just to get your own ass off the hook. Insincerity renders the good act meaningless. The poor still get fed, but in a covert way, which casts a shroud over the true spirit of giving. Now you’ll have to find a way to undo that, too.

Today is another day and it is a new one. HERE is your opportunity to do better.

Question: I delivered Meals-on-wheels for several years, a while back. Did I wrack up enough deposits into my karmatic bank account to pay for all the damage I have done since then? How do I know if I have overdrawn my account?