seamaiden

Yesterday I had another incident of vasovagal syncope, one of many in my life. For those who don't know what that is, basically it's loss of consciousness due to some sort of trigger that causes the vagus nerve to lower blood pressure...in other words, fainting. My trigger is needles. I don't always faint, but yesterday I had a needle in both arms, the second was the H1N1 vaccination and it was a larger needle...obvious discomfort. I work in a hospital and flu immunization is necessary to protect both staff and patients. I always tell whoever is giving me a needle that I'm a fainter and I ask to lie down if possible, but yesterday all that was available was a two seater chair. So I sat up and took the first needle without too much stress, but the second was a trigger. It sneeks up on me after the fact. I sat there putting pressure on the injection site for about five minutes before I felt the need to actually lie down. My legs were hanging over the end of the two seater, so the nurses brought another chair over for me to eleavate my feet, but by then things were already going wrong. I thought I was going to be alright, I can usually tell if I'm going to pass out by the way my vision goes black and fuzzy around the edges, and can let someone know I'm going...but yesterday it came on fast. Half a second maybe, and I was out. The strangest thing about fainting is that I'm aware of dreaming, but it's like dreaming in warp speed and once I come to I'm in such a state of confussion I can never remember what they were about. For the first few seconds after I come to, I never know where I am, who is talking to me, even if it's someone I've know all my life, and I can't even remember how to talk. It's as if language doesn't exist. My thoughs are just confussed emotions. The experience always drains me. I wake up sweating, and then I shake for about 15 minutes. Yesterdays episode was the most intense that I've had for a long time. I felt nausious for two hours. I hate that I can't control it.

Dose anyone else have this affliction? If so...any suggestions for overcoming it?

ratbastid

I do. I've written about it here somewhere... I'll try and find it.

My trigger is any thought of internal injury. Last time I went out, I was in a large meeting room with about 200 other people. I bent down to put something in my bag under my chair and had a sudden pain in my belly (which my doctor says was a muscle spasm--there's nothing really there to hurt, where the pain was). Next thing I knew, a woman I knew from that meeting, who I knew is an RN, was asking me what the date was and where we were, and I had 200 people looking at me.

I went to the hospital (at the urging of 200 people) and got checked out. Released just in time to catch a flight home. I went to my regular doc the next day who did a thorough workup. I'm healthy as a mule, it turns out (cardiac enzymes and cholesterol are VERY good for a man my age who eats like I do).

I just have a hair-trigger Vagus nerve. It's dropped me on my can maybe a dozen times in my lfe. Runs in my family, as a matter of fact; my dad and my brother are the same way. Family lore tells of my dad sitting in a chair with his head between his knees while I was being born.

My analogy for what it's like is: rebooting my brain. I fainted once in the shower (I had a sore back which lurkette was rubbing for me under a hot shower, and she said, "It feels like your back has collapsed", and I was done). I remember waking up thinking, "Okay... I exist. Fine. Let's see. I'm lying down. There's water coming onto me. Oh, I'm in a shower. Oh, it's MY shower. Okay. Why am I lying in my shower?" That was disorienting, but not particularly scary. Earlier, before I came to recognize it quickly, it felt like I was waking up from a dream that my whole life had been, into what was now real life that I had never actually lived in before. Wild.

Also, btw, marijuana makes me faint. That's not particularly uncommon, it turns out, but you kill a couple parties that way, you learn to stick to beer.

After the last one, I did a little reading about how one might fight it off. I usually don't have much warning--a couple seconds, max, although it feels like hours. I usually try to pretend I'm not fainting, which doesn't make any sense, so you can tell my faculties are already a bit impaired even as it's starting. My impulse is to relax, breath deep, etc. Turns out that's exactly what not to do. Better to squeeze your muscles tightly, try to keep your blood pressure up. What causes the unconsciousness is lack of BP in the brain, so they say if you can tighten your legs and abs, you might be able to fight it off.

seamaiden

Ratbastid, it runs in my family too. My father passed out when he gave blood...odd that we shared the same trigger. Is that how it is with your family?

Wild is the best word to describe the dreams for me as well, even though I can't remember the content, I know they don't compare to the ones I have in a sleep related, altered state of consciousness.

Next time, I'll try the legs and abs tightening suggestion you made. I always try to focus my thoughts on something else, so it makes sense to focus on something that will keep my BP up.

ratbastid

Yeah, the thing I realized reading about it this time is... By the time the early symptoms are starting (tingly sensation on my face, tunnel vision), "thinking" intervention is too late. The Vegus is already spasming, and only impact you can have on things at that point is physical.

Sticky

Recently I had to have a few minor procedures done and I also had surgery with local anestesia. The doctor who did the surgery explained the the feelings I was having and had had previously in my life as vasovagal. To let me know that it was normal he told me a story where a really good friend of his (who happened to be my boss) was pranked on the his first day at work by his boss and the owners of the company. They led him to believe that he had accidentally sent porn around the office and that one of the owners was extremly mad at him. Anyway he fainted.

The minor procedures I recently had that trigered these feelings (although no fainting) were a needle biopsy on my neck and a scope up my nose. in both cases, I had to lie back in the char afterward and it took me a while to feel well enough to get up.
With me I start feeling sweaty - I see feeling becuase I don't think that I am actually getting sweaty. I then feel like the hair on my head is being plastered down to my head. Then the nausea starts to set in. It is a much longer process for me and I don't end up fainting.

Anyway, when I went for the surgery I warned the doctor that I felt faint from the minor procedures and that i though it was the the smell of the lidocane (with the scope up my nose I had to use lidocane nose drops so that I would feel the camera on a wire going thorough my nose less then without it - it still hurt) that caused it. This is where he told me about vasovagal and that it had nothing to do with the lidocane. He said that when we did the surgery I should let him know if it was coming on and he would help by distracting me. He explained that the vasovagal reaction was becuase we are smart people that have imaginations about all the various horrible things that can happen. Even if we don't actually think about them, we just know. It is our brains that trigger the reaction.

So during the surgery when I felt it coming on he distracted me by getting me to focus on something else. He started asking me tons of questions one right after the other. It helped and the feeling went away.

So for me, I don't get it all the time, it just happens some times
- Giving blood - I can never get through a whole bag
- One of the epidurals my wife got - only one of them
- The needle biopsy
- Nose scope
- Open biopsy surgery with local anasthetic

Needles in general don't do anything to me.


Oh, there was one situation where I did faint.
I was in the bathroom standing while peeing in the toilet when I had a very sharp pain at the end of my penis. The next theing I knew I was lying on the floor and my wife was rushing into the bathroom. The last thing I really remembered was the pain. I do remeber having a falling sensation but I was definately out before I hit the floor. I fell completely over to the side. My face smashing on the tile floor woke me up.

I am sure that I passed a stone or something.
Anyway, for the next two weeks I drank so much water and went to the bathroom sitting down every time.

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Sticky The Stickman

Lasereth

I'm no doctor but people passing out over needles and giving blood is extremely common. Ratbastid's case seems a lot more serious though.

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highthief

Wouldn't psychotherapy (maybe cognitive behavioural therapy) help? I realize you are describing a physical problem but there appear to be psychological/emotional triggers of the type that can be minimized with therapy.

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ratbastid

Well, maybe. I'm not convinced it would. And frankly, it just doesn't have that big an impact on my life to invest in it like that. I'm 35 years old and I've fainted probably 10 times. It's years between them. I'm just not going to spend money and time on it like that.

seamaiden

Yes...I've heard that psychotherapy can help, but it's not covered under my health plan and doesn't have a big enough impact on my life to warrant spending money. It's unpleasant and inconvenient...I guess I'm just looking for home remedies.

I've passed out dozens of times, and it's not only needles that trigger it. The strangest time was when I was in my early teens...the first time I used a tampon...came to on the floor, sweaty and shivering. I think it's the thought of anything invasive that can trigger it for me. Thankfully sex never has...then I would definitely be in therapy!

Charlatan

I've never experienced this but reading about your experiences makes me think of those goats that faint when you scare them.

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Sticky

Charlatan, is that from Mythbusters?

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Sticky The Stickman

ratbastid

I love fainting goats.

And yes, I do feel a certain kinship with them.

Charlatan

I don't know if it's from Mythbusters... it's just a gif that came up when I Googled the term Fainting Goats.

Ratbastid... I think you need to get a fainting goat to go with your Chickens.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Sticky

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Sticky The Stickman

Lady Bear Cub

I have to watch when they stick me with needles. It's weird because I can't watch when others are being stuck. It totally creeps me out.

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But I very seldom follow it,
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seamaiden

OMG I never look. I don't even want to see them all sealed in their packages. I work part time in an emergency department and have to deal with needles and blood vials all the time...I just don't like when I know they're going into me.