Sleeping Troubles - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

seretogis · 07-05-2003, 08:03 AM

I'm currently doing the Atkin's-diet thing, and have been on the diet for roughly a month now. The last week, however, I've been having serious trouble sleeping -- both falling asleep, and staying asleep for eight hours. Last night, for example, I was finally able to fall asleep at about 10am and woke up half an hour later, then woke up again two hours later, then again an hour later, etc. It's nerve-wracking and I don't wake up feeling as if I had slept at all -- just the opposite in fact, I feel exhausted.

I'm awake right now, having not slept for about 20 hours now, and I'm hoping that maybe if I stay up long enough I'll just somehow manage to ctrl-alt-del my sleeping pattern. I've tried "Tylenol PM"s but they don't seem to help at all. Is it the diet? Is it the hot weather? Is it anxiety/depression kicking in? Any ideas?

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ps: I wasn't sure where to post this, since the advice forum appears to be vaporized. Please move this to wherever it would be more appropriate.

butthead · 07-05-2003, 08:43 AM

Tylenol PM's contain antihistamines that will sedate you, with antihistamines you will only be able to get non-REM sleep (you need REM sleep).

If you're getting to sleep, maybe it's not anxiety, but if you have trouble going to sleep I think that might be it.

I don't really know how helpful anyone can be if one can't suggest/recommend the use of drugs/"supplements".

seretogis · 07-05-2003, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by butthead
If you're getting to sleep, maybe it's not anxiety, but if you have trouble going to sleep I think that might be it.

I don't really know how helpful anyone can be if one can't suggest/recommend the use of drugs/"supplements".

When I do go to sleep, it's generally after hours spent staring at the inside of my eyelids, and then I wake up half a dozen times before I can get eight hours.

I'd prefer not to resort to any sort of prescription drug if at all possible.

yoshi · 07-05-2003, 06:44 PM

I would recommend that you call your doctor and have a talk. It could be underlying stress, then since you can't even fall asleep, that makes you even more frustrated and could be keeping you up. Try Ambien, it's a fabulous prescription med that helps you fall asleep, stay asleep and you feel great the next day b/c you are rested.

tikki · 07-05-2003, 09:53 PM

Have you changed anything in the past week in regards to your new diet?

dudemac · 07-06-2003, 04:06 PM

I had the same thing on atkins, most people have the exact oppisite.

I would do a short work out and a warm shower, it helped out alot. Also its a good idea to eat a small meal before bed, since you are burning calories while you sleep.

Try not to start taking something because it could effect your insulin level which is what atkins strives to keep constant.

Ratman · 07-08-2003, 07:10 AM

I have been doing an Atikins-like diet for awhile now. I have never heard of antihistamines disrupting REM sleep. I have used them off and on for several years. I guess some sleep is better than no sleep. They usually put me out for about 6-8 hours, I wake up feeling great, with no "hangover".

Make sure that your bed and bedroom are comfortable and condusive to sleep. As soon as you start to feel sleepy, get ready for bed. Make sure that you are tired and sleepy before you get in bed. Make a checklist- alarm set, doors locked, etc., so there is no reason for you to get up or wonder "Did I...". Don't do the Tylenol PM unless you have pain. Go for the straight generic version of Benedryl (diphenhydramine HCL). You can get it at any drug store, and most supermarkets that sell cold and allergy meds. It's really cheap. Start at 50mg (usually 2 pills). If that doesn't work, try 75mg the next night. You can safely use 300mg with no side effects. It is not addictive, but when it works, and you get a couple nights sleep, back off to nothing so your bod can do it's own thing. Take this all with a grain of salt, I am not a doctor. Good luck.

PS- For an interesting and amazingly in-depth look at sleep, and sleep disorders, research, etc. pick up "The Promise Of Sleep" by William C. Dement, M.D., PH.D.

dudemac · 07-08-2003, 07:12 AM

are you taking any kind of fat burner? Like Xenedrine?

BigBlue66 · 07-09-2003, 07:48 AM

Try some St. John's Wort for the anxiety/depression part of it. Also, chamomile tea works pretty good. There are other herbs that you can take to promote sleep, but I can't remember them right now.

denton · 07-15-2003, 04:18 AM

I had that exact problem (not the atkins part) and Ambien got me out of that cycle. It can be anxiety, and it just gets worse the longer it continues ("here we go again...") If you decide to get Ambien, it is pretty expensive without a presc. card, and also quite addictive. But it did help me get out of that pattern, I know how you are feeling.

Tylenol PM's really screwed with my sleep, that is the last thing I would use.
Sleep for 2-3 hours, wake up with "hangover" for 2 hours, repeat cycle. Also they wouldn't kick in right away.

My brother and mom recommended Melatonin (herbal pill), but I have not tried it. Alot cheaper and no dr. visit.

click_me_now · 07-15-2003, 04:12 PM

I love melatonin, it is cheap and effective. If that does not work try masterbation, unless you are amember of that crazy wank-free club!

lurkette · 07-15-2003, 05:07 PM

Kava and/or valerian root have worked well for me in the past. Unfortunately both of them smell like feet, so get them in capsule, not tea form. Chamomile tea makes me have to pee iin the middle of the night if I drink enough to make me drowsy, thereby defeating the purpose.

MacGnG · 07-15-2003, 06:19 PM

Melatonin - "to aid in the control of normal sleeping patterns"

also 5-HTP, etc...

otc herbal-ish
-----
valerian smells horrid, like mulch and horses

Cynthetiq · 07-15-2003, 08:55 PM

i'm taking nortritryptilyne.... mild antidepressant in large doses.... in small ones it puts one to sleep without the hang over...

bonus for me.. it has actually had a ritalin like effect on keeping me focused

stinkynutz · 07-16-2003, 12:39 PM

i have problems going to sleep and melatonin doesn't do crap for me.

now ambien is another story....it can be fun also :d

geep · 07-16-2003, 03:14 PM

Anxiety is the major (not only) cause of disrupted sleep patterns. If someone says that they've changed their diet, the first thing that comes to mind for me is "why"? Change your diet back to a more "normal" diet to see if your sleep improves. If it does- then you know the reason it was disrupted. If it doesn't, there is another cause. Seeing your doctor might be the answer then. Anxiety may not be something you are consciously aware of, are there other symptoms? Short temper? Lack of energy? There are medical conditions that may also disrupt your sleep.

07-05-2003, 08:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Sleeping Troubles I'm currently doing the Atkin's-diet thing, and have been on the diet for roughly a month now. The last week, however, I've been having serious trouble sleeping -- both falling asleep, and staying asleep for eight hours. Last night, for example, I was finally able to fall asleep at about 10am and woke up half an hour later, then woke up again two hours later, then again an hour later, etc. It's nerve-wracking and I don't wake up feeling as if I had slept at all -- just the opposite in fact, I feel exhausted. I'm awake right now, having not slept for about 20 hours now, and I'm hoping that maybe if I stay up long enough I'll just somehow manage to ctrl-alt-del my sleeping pattern. I've tried "Tylenol PM"s but they don't seem to help at all. Is it the diet? Is it the hot weather? Is it anxiety/depression kicking in? Any ideas? ----- ps: I wasn't sure where to post this, since the advice forum appears to be vaporized. Please move this to wherever it would be more appropriate. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

07-06-2003, 04:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
dudemac Tilted Location: College Station, TX	I had the same thing on atkins, most people have the exact oppisite. I would do a short work out and a warm shower, it helped out alot. Also its a good idea to eat a small meal before bed, since you are burning calories while you sleep. Try not to start taking something because it could effect your insulin level which is what atkins strives to keep constant. __________________ Dudemac Author Somewhere

07-08-2003, 07:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ratman Addict Location: Somewhere... Across the sea...	I have been doing an Atikins-like diet for awhile now. I have never heard of antihistamines disrupting REM sleep. I have used them off and on for several years. I guess some sleep is better than no sleep. They usually put me out for about 6-8 hours, I wake up feeling great, with no "hangover". Make sure that your bed and bedroom are comfortable and condusive to sleep. As soon as you start to feel sleepy, get ready for bed. Make sure that you are tired and sleepy before you get in bed. Make a checklist- alarm set, doors locked, etc., so there is no reason for you to get up or wonder "Did I...". Don't do the Tylenol PM unless you have pain. Go for the straight generic version of Benedryl (diphenhydramine HCL). You can get it at any drug store, and most supermarkets that sell cold and allergy meds. It's really cheap. Start at 50mg (usually 2 pills). If that doesn't work, try 75mg the next night. You can safely use 300mg with no side effects. It is not addictive, but when it works, and you get a couple nights sleep, back off to nothing so your bod can do it's own thing. Take this all with a grain of salt, I am not a doctor. Good luck. PS- For an interesting and amazingly in-depth look at sleep, and sleep disorders, research, etc. pick up "The Promise Of Sleep" by William C. Dement, M.D., PH.D. __________________ The difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference. "God made man, but he used the monkey to do it." DEVO

07-08-2003, 07:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
dudemac Tilted Location: College Station, TX	are you taking any kind of fat burner? Like Xenedrine? __________________ Dudemac Author Somewhere

07-09-2003, 07:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
BigBlue66 Upright Location: Madison WI USA	Try some St. John's Wort for the anxiety/depression part of it. Also, chamomile tea works pretty good. There are other herbs that you can take to promote sleep, but I can't remember them right now. __________________ Just tryin to get by.

07-05-2003, 08:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
butthead Loser Location: SF Bay Area, CA	Tylenol PM's contain antihistamines that will sedate you, with antihistamines you will only be able to get non-REM sleep (you need REM sleep). If you're getting to sleep, maybe it's not anxiety, but if you have trouble going to sleep I think that might be it. I don't really know how helpful anyone can be if one can't suggest/recommend the use of drugs/"supplements".

07-05-2003, 06:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
yoshi Crazy Location: Jersey	I would recommend that you call your doctor and have a talk. It could be underlying stress, then since you can't even fall asleep, that makes you even more frustrated and could be keeping you up. Try Ambien, it's a fabulous prescription med that helps you fall asleep, stay asleep and you feel great the next day b/c you are rested.

07-05-2003, 09:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
tikki Justified Location: West Lafayette, IN	Have you changed anything in the past week in regards to your new diet?

07-15-2003, 04:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
denton Crazy	I had that exact problem (not the atkins part) and Ambien got me out of that cycle. It can be anxiety, and it just gets worse the longer it continues ("here we go again...") If you decide to get Ambien, it is pretty expensive without a presc. card, and also quite addictive. But it did help me get out of that pattern, I know how you are feeling. Tylenol PM's really screwed with my sleep, that is the last thing I would use. Sleep for 2-3 hours, wake up with "hangover" for 2 hours, repeat cycle. Also they wouldn't kick in right away. My brother and mom recommended Melatonin (herbal pill), but I have not tried it. Alot cheaper and no dr. visit.

07-15-2003, 04:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
click_me_now Upright	I love melatonin, it is cheap and effective. If that does not work try masterbation, unless you are amember of that crazy wank-free club!

07-15-2003, 05:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Kava and/or valerian root have worked well for me in the past. Unfortunately both of them smell like feet, so get them in capsule, not tea form. Chamomile tea makes me have to pee iin the middle of the night if I drink enough to make me drowsy, thereby defeating the purpose. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

07-15-2003, 06:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	Melatonin - "to aid in the control of normal sleeping patterns" also 5-HTP, etc... otc herbal-ish ----- valerian smells horrid, like mulch and horses

07-15-2003, 08:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	i'm taking nortritryptilyne.... mild antidepressant in large doses.... in small ones it puts one to sleep without the hang over... bonus for me.. it has actually had a ritalin like effect on keeping me focused __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-16-2003, 12:39 PM	#15 (permalink)
stinkynutz Insane	i have problems going to sleep and melatonin doesn't do crap for me. now ambien is another story....it can be fun also :d

07-16-2003, 03:14 PM	#16 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	Anxiety is the major (not only) cause of disrupted sleep patterns. If someone says that they've changed their diet, the first thing that comes to mind for me is "why"? Change your diet back to a more "normal" diet to see if your sleep improves. If it does- then you know the reason it was disrupted. If it doesn't, there is another cause. Seeing your doctor might be the answer then. Anxiety may not be something you are consciously aware of, are there other symptoms? Short temper? Lack of energy? There are medical conditions that may also disrupt your sleep.