telekinetic

I had some surgery last august that I've been battling my insurance over. I've been keeping all my owed parties up to speed, letters all the time, always saying "if you have to go to collections, let me know, I'll pay you and get reimbursement from the insurance" and so far everyone had been cool with it, or rather, none of them had sent me anything indicating they weren't.

Last thursday, I'm in a work meeting, and a get a call from a number I don't recognize...I answer in case it is work related, and it's someone with (fast mumble) collection agency representing (medical people with a name similar to two of my creditors). I'm in the middle of the meeting, and he wants $600 and is a pushy asshole about it--he won't give me a number I can call him back at (what, you don't travel with your debit card? just give me the number! etc etc) so I hung up on him.

I figured he'd call back again and I could give him my card number (since I've got the money), but didn't hear from him again until today, when he called (this time on my work phone...odd).

Me: "This is Twisted"
Him: "Is this Twisted Mosaic? (full name)"
Me: "Yes, who is calling?"
Him: This is blahblahblah collections representing (medical agency), I was just conducting employment verification for the action against you for the amount of $600
Me: "ah yes, ok..." *starts to get out debit card*
Him: "Is your social XXX-XX-XXXX?"
Me: "yep!"
Him "OK, I'm just letting you know we've initiated legal action against you, you'll be hearing from our lawyers, have a nice day!" *hangup*
Me: O_o

Anyone have any idea WTF this is about? Don't bill collectors typically want to, you know, collect money?

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twisted no more

yournamehere

I suggest you call the parties to whom you owe money and set up a payment plan. Most health care providers are pretty agreeable to that, as long as they know they'll be getting something every month.

Something similar happened to me - my medical bills in 2008 were much higher than my coverage, but I had a $2,000 maximum out-of-pocket clause in my coverage. I called the health provider (Mayo Clinic) and set up a $200/month payment plan. About six months after that, I got laid off. I called them again, and asked if they'd accept $50/mo until I get back on my feet. They're okay with it, so far.

Which reminds me . . . . I forgot to pay therm this month.
/ leaves to get debit card and go phone them

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snowy

You don't have to deal with collections agencies, and I would advise against giving them any personal information about yourself or verifying any personal information they have about you on file, especially if they're unwilling to give you a callback number. For all you know, it could be a phishing scam, or a new variation on the phishing scam called "vishing", wherein they call up merely to ask you to confirm details they already know.

I really recommend that you read the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, which tells you precisely what a collector is allowed to say and do and what they're not allowed to say and do: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...edit/cre27.pdf

The collection industry is just too full of shady practices--don't play ball if you don't have to--and you don't. Deal with your debtors directly.

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Charlatan

I had a collection agency call me a few years ago and I just told them to piss off. I called the people to whom I owed the money and sorted it out directly with them.

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robot_parade

I think, at least in some cases, the debt is actually *sold* to the collection agency. Which means you don't owe the hospital or doctors, you owe the collection agency. I'm not sure how (or if) that works from a legal standpoint, so huge grain of salt on this one. My guess is that this is just a scare tactic, and you'll be able to 'settle' with them soon.

Xerxys

^^ I was under the same impression too. And also, don't you have to be "served" whilst being sued? By either an official of the court or the sherriff? Call the hospital and PAY THEM!!! I smell a scam happening. I trust no one with my SS number.

Zeraph

Don't give collection agencies shit. They try all sorts of scams to scare you. They lie all the time. Most of them are the true scum of the earth.


After doing a quick youtube search. I was hoping to find an interview I saw awhile ago that showed how vile some of these people are.

ametc

Weird! I've been getting calls from debt collectors, too. But, from companies I don't ever remember ever owing any money to.. so I'm not paying them back unless they tell me wtf for.

May not be the same for you, but I just wanted to share.

Vana

The tactic is to harrass you. Hence the work phone. They probably called your mother and boss too.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Now you know for next time.

There could be a civil suit against you? After all, so it seems you have not paid back what you owe and promised, by signing a contract? How would you feel if someone stiffed you on a 600 quid debt? You are the one in the wrong, you do realize that? For taking the debt in the first place, for not having been responsible to have saved so as to avoid taking the debt, and then not paying it back in a timely manner. The best advice is: next time be responsible.

telekinetic

Wow, thanks for being so understanding. I actually am not in the wrong here. I was unconscious at the time I incurred this particular debt, as, had you read the OP, it was for assisting during emergency surgery. Which was supposed to be fully covered under my insurance policy.

Racking up my $50,000 medical debt due to said emergency surgery (appendectomy, to be precise) that my health insurance SHOULD cover, but had decided they didn't want to, doesn't exactly weigh heavily on my conscience. I am not ignoring it (I've got money, and could have easily paid this given the chance, which is why this tactic was so bothersome), in fact I have spent the last nine months fighting it in appeals, and have kept all creditors up to date on my battle, and none of them had so far given me any indication that they'd be happy to wait for the insurance to settle...so far I've pried $48,000 (all rightfully mine, per the contract I had with them) out of the greedy buggers, and this was part of the last $2000 remaining that they keep refusing to pay.

Anyways, I paid all remaining $2000 of the balances (including this one) on the off chance any of the other people decide to get all prosecuty, and am now trying for reimbursement instead of payment.

yeah, in conclusion, the medical system in the US RULES!!! Hopefully obama doesn't lead us into the EVILS of SOCIALIZED MEDICINE oooOooOooOOO *makes sarcastic spooky noises*

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Crack

I have an uncle that is a debt collector, he is a nice guy, and he probably knows more about the law than any lawyer, the one thing he always told me was to merely mention the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and it will send most bill collectors running for the hills. They know that one slip up, and they can be sued for a lot of money, so yeah... take that with a grain of salt. I had one call me, and I mentioned FDCPA, and he said "what is that?" How sad.

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underdun

I heard something about this a while back but it was with credit cards, it's not very hard to get someone's credit card number, most people who work in a department store have access to customer card numbers. The scam running for a while was they would copy the recipts, call the customer stating they were calling from their bank and they would read back their credit card number to them. After they confirmed that it was infact their card number they would ask for the last 3 digits for "security purposes", once they had those last 3 digits they could use their card for whatever they wanted. If this person is calling on behalf of one of these medical agencies I would recommend calling them and checking with them before speaking with him again. Also I would advise calling your bank and speaking with their fraud department and letting them know whats going on, if this guy is from a collection agency he should have all the information he needs in front of him. If it is a scam maybe they think if they threaten you with legal action you might be more willing to release personal information when they call in the future.

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DaniGirl

I know how you feel, I hate fucking debt collectors. They call any known family, and yes your boss. My husband is named after his father he is a Jr and we are having issues with his father who has had nothing to do with him since he was 3. We are getting debt collectors calling us about shit that was purchased in Maine, we live in fucking Utah. Ugh

The_Jazz

Here are some pretty good online resources for this topic. By the way, the Consumerist is owned by the same folks that own Consumer Reports, so this is all from the consumer's protection.

Consumerist - How To Protect Yourself Against Aggressive Debt Collectors - Ftc
Consumerist - Make Debt Collectors Prove They Own What They Say You Owe - Debt
Consumerist - Things Debt Collectors Can't Do - Debt - it looks like they may have violated a rule here about the number of calls to your workplace.
Consumerist - Sample Letter For Disputing A Debt Collection Notice - Debt Collectors
Consumerist - Sample Letter For Telling A Debt Collector To Drop Dead - Debt
Consumerist - A Lie A Debt Collector Once Told Us - Debt Collectors

Make sure you checked the linked stories. There's a lot of good info over there.

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telekinetic

Really? Based on the site layout, I always assumed they were part of Gawker Media....unless that's who owns Consumer Reports, in which case

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The_Jazz

They were until the first of the year when CR bought them.

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Xazy

I actually have all those links bookmarked, but Jazz beat me to it.

Jinn

Your name is actually Twisted Mosiac? That's fucking awesome. I'd love to meet your parents.

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shakran

For a few months now I've had a debt collector calling me on my work phone insisting that I owe them money for a Ford van that I bought. Trouble is, I don't buy Fords because I think they suck. Turns out, it was the employee who had the phone before me (and who got fired) who bought the van.

The debt collector is now telling me "well this is the phone number we have for the account, you're responsible for the debt."

If I were psychotic, I'd kill someone and mail the murder weapon to the collection agent. After all, if he has it, he's responsible for what it was used for in the past, right?

The_Jazz

Shakran, I can't believe you didn't laugh out loud when he told you that. That's completely assinine.

One of the fun things about the law is that you could potentially take these morons to small claims court and win a judgement against them for harassing you.

__________________
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Glory's Sun

are you serious?!?! Holy fuck, you need to ask him to meet you in court. that's hilarious!

Push-Pull

Yeah, some debt collectors are absolutely evil. Had a medical procedure that our (then) insurance wouldn't cover AFTER the doctor's office got the approval that went to collections DESPITE a prior arrangement with the various parties. That f*&kin' bastard called about 5 of our neighbors, 3 of my wife's co-workers, her manager, and several of our family members. All within about 30 minutes after he left a voice mail for us to call him. Guess he didn't want to wait an hour for us to call him back.

At any rate, it worked, we paid that immediately.

FWIW, the office that sent it to collections "couldn't do anything about it now that it's in collections. You'll just have to deal with them." I did however, talk to the office manager and let them know about the business practices of that agency, to which she seemed genuinely shocked. Don't know what happened with it.

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shakran

I did. He said "You're on" and hung up. I'm waiting to see where it goes.

And yeah, Jazz, I laughed pretty hard, which I think is why he hung up on me

Glory's Sun

I just remembered about 6 years or so ago, I had a debt collector call me and after about 20 minutes of going around and around with him, I finally hung up on him. He called right back and used a couple of curse words.. luckily this was back when I had an answering machine.. so I promptly called back, spoke to a few higher ups and played the message for them. He was fired, and they never bothered me again. If a debt collector curses or uses inappropriate language in your conversation, let the supervisors know. It's illegal for them to do that.

Halanna

I smell a rat.

It unlikely that a collection agency will contact you by phone when you haven't received anything in the mail. The Fair Debt Collection Act (something like that) says they have to notify you in writing and you have a certain amount of time to dispute the validity of the debt among other things.

I don't see why anyone would ask you to verify your entire social security number over the phone. Usually it's only the last 4 digits. The fact that they said your full name then your full social security number and you verified it (shame on you, you know better) is a red flag. Notice how quickly they hung up after verifying your social?

While some collections agencies will sue for small amounts, the majority of them don't. To answer someone else, yes you have to be served with papers notifying you an action has been filed against you, you have X number of days to respond to the petition, etc. Threats of legal action by a collection agency is just that, threats.

It's not hard to get an account with a third party business that allows you to pull other peoples credit reports to start running a scam. All you have to do is pay the per report fee, or a flat fee depending on the company you use.

If I were you this is what I would do and worry about the validity later. That verifying the whole social over the phone scares me.

Call your phone carrier and ask if they have any type of reverse call blocking where you can block the last number that called your phone.

Go to www.annualcreditreport.com and pull a credit report from each of the agencies, there will be 3. These reports are free and you get one free report per year from each agency.

Once you have reviewed all 3 reports (and printed them) contact the agencies and have them put a "fraud alert" on your account. This will prevent anyone using or stealing your identity.

Look through all your medical bills and see if you have one for $600. If you don't, bigger red flag. If you do, call them and find out what is going on.

Vana

We never are.

Looks like you are learning a lesson about insurance.

I don't dispute this point.

No capitalist would sell insurance if it wasn't profitable: necessarilly you must never get what you pay for with insurance. Something to think about.

Glory's Sun

OOH! Jazz is just going to *LOVE* this one.

I can already see a 3 page insurance rant coming.

The_Jazz

That's illegal, and when states find out that insurance companies are not giving consumers what they're paying for, large fines quickly follow. Insurance contracts are very specific, but since consumers rarely read them, they expect things to be different. It is bigger problem with health insurance than property/casualty since consumers rarely get full copies of policies. There's also the issue that the claims folks are paid to say "no".

TM - if you're convinced you're in the right, contact your state department of insurance and tell them your problem, especially if you have documentation proving what you've said. Departments of insurance are generally the most customer-friendly state office you'll find because those regulators love nothing better than using their power over companies. I'm not sure which state you're in, but if you need a point in the right direction, just ask.

__________________
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"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
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telekinetic

Well aren't you just a little ray of sunshine

Your final conclusion is wrong: For insurance to function profitably, all that has to happen is that the AVERAGE consumer gets less out than they put in. That's the whole purpose of insurance...to smooth out the spikes in the graph, so to speak. As long as total premiums minus total services paid (and minus business expenses) equals a positive number, they are profitable, even if Jimmy Accident Prone has only paid one months premiums and requires $1million dollars of services. If insurance operated in such a manner that you couldn't 'withdraw' any more than you personally had 'deposited', they'd be no better than a savings account.

Insurance companies safeguard their profits by adjusting their rates according to sophisticated statistical analysis, and by placing maximum coverage caps to limit their exposure on large expenses.

---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

I am...the specifics are they cover emergency care in network or out of network at 100% for $150 copay, full stop. However, they're trying to use the 'approved service amounts' or whatever from the 'out of network services' section (from an entirely different subsection of the policy, covering general out of network services, mind you) to only pay their pre-approved amounts for anesthesia and surgery assisting--amounts that are about 20% of the actual charges.

I just got another letter back from the insurance company...the state has a 3-tiered appeals process, but the insurance co said in their last letter that they refuse to deal with any more appeals (after just the first two tiers...the third is 'binding 3rd party arbitration') so I'll give the insurance commission a call this week.

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twisted no more

Cynthetiq

TM, I contacted my state attorney general to talk to them about things that my insurance company was denying covering but was clearly supposed to cover in my policy. they had covered it before and were just trying to not pay out $75 for a doctor's visit that was miscoded.

I was passed to an ombudsman who with their assistance got me my check within 4 weeks.

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