curiousbear

I heard that in the US, during a divorce, half of the wealth of a man goes to the woman. And if there are children, they go with the mother and the guy need to pay child-support around 1.5K a month. He added that it doesnt matter whether the female has a job, has properties, or even marries an other man later.

Is it true?

And he spoke about statistics, that most women divorce for reasons like "life is boring, not interesting anymore, you are too busy, you dont pay enough attention" etc.

I asked him "why did you marry?" (he married twice) He was silent. He is a real good guy. Very talented, perfectionist.

While I think if what he says is true, and if I belong to such a place, I wont marry! And my wife says, he should go for prenuptial agreement, defining what will be the arrangements in case of separation.

Are such agreements possible and stand valid in US court of law?

levite

Good timing on this question! We are just in the midst of discussing marriage and divorce rates in my pastoral counseling class, so it happens I have done my reading on this subject!

Far as I know divorce law in the US varies by state. California, where I live, is a "community property" state, which presumes that all assets owned by either spouse belong equally to both parties, unless specifically excluded by a prenuptial agreement. Some other states are also "community property" states, but many others have no such legal presumption, and different rules apply regarding the division of property upon divorce.

As for spousal maintenance-- what they used to call "alimony"-- the amount is generally determined by the judge, if it cannot be agreed upon by the two parties. It is by no means a set amount, or even a set proportion of income or expenses. It varies on a case by case basis, and the assets, incomes, and financial obligations of both parties are generally taken into account when a figure is being calculated. Spousal maintenance amounts can also be fixed, or spousal maintenance can be waived entirely, if agreed to in a prenuptial contract.

These days, most lawyers recommend that if one has any assets to speak of at all prior to marriage, or if one is at all concerned about possible future divorce, one should absolutely insist on a prenuptial agreement.

As far as I know, the most commonly cited reason for divorce in the US is "irreconcilable differences," which, granted, can mean just about anything. I have not heard of any preponderance of people getting divorced out of boredom, although I suppose this might be a case of "a rose by any other name...." Generally, as far as I can tell, people get married too quickly, without considering consequences, then find they are either too immature to commit, or are unsuited to their partner, or their partner is unsuited to them, or their partner is too immature to maintain a committed relationship, or all of the above. Then they divorce.

That said, it is also true that the numbers for divorce rates in the US are generally extremely inflated. Hysterical news reports talk about 50% of US marriages ending in divorce, but that is greatly exaggerated. About 30% of US marriages, on average, end in divorce, but the rates vary widely depending on the area of the country, the ethnic group involved, religious preferences, education, etc. Whether the 70% or so that stay married are happily married, or even faithful...that's a different question....

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

jorgelito

It's pretty ridiculous actually. Many men are driven to the poor house by their greedy ex wives. There needs to be more discretion and judgment in divorce cases, not just rigid statutes. I don't understand why some wives are entitled to half of their husbands earnings and assets when they did nothing to contribute to it.

EX: Michael Jordan's wife - took half of everything without shooting a single basket
Heather Mills got a rather large settlement from her marriage to Paul McCartney. How many songs did she write? Or how about ridiculous child support payments?

The worst thing is, the alimony stops when the wife remarries so she usually doesn't and just keeps her boyfriend while both live off of her ex-husbands dime.

This is nothing more than extortion or prostitution really.

__________________
"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but
to the one that endures to the end."

"Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!"

- My recruiter

jewels

No. Who's he?

Generally, the assets are split between the two. Keep in mind that most women work outside the home. Alimony is usually rewarded if one spouse doesn't work, but it goes both ways. A high earning female can be mandated to pay the husband. There can be an uneven split if one party is accused and there's evidence of infidelity. Judges tend to side with the victim.

As for child support, it's based on income and lifestyle as a couple. $1500 per month? I wish. The amount varies widely, but based on income that would be for a spouse that's making over $100K annually.

Your friend is bitter and speaking in swooping generalizations. If his ex said that to him, obviously he wasn't putting much effort into his marriage and expecting too much?

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

curiousbear

Thanks Levite, comprehensive response

I have same opinion

How does that matter? You too sound like him to me. Very personal!!! I only want to understand the facts.

This sound very justice to me. This is ideal. Jorgelito, do you and jewels live in different states? And the law can be so much different between states?

First of all he is not my friend. But a lot of us think that he is a Victim. I know he works a lot, cannot listen to the shallow 'blah blah'. Well he dint put much effort in to this marriage, but what ever he had 'working busy', he had PUT half of that in divorce. The exes (two of them) are living practically with his money without having to do anything for him. I think such people are crap.

My wife got furious listen to his case! She calls it exploitation.

jewels

You said that you "heard" this info and went straight into "he said". This was one person/friend that you heard this from then?

Did you mean Levite? He's talking about alimony which has no real base and often seems random; I was talking about child support.

Your friend is right. I think the system is often exploited. (Welcome to America, right?) Often the guys still get screwed over. I don't think alimony should ever apply, unless it's for a woman who hasn't worked and then it should be provided only to survive until she completes training or school.

Please don't forget that there are millions of women out there who are not receiving Court ordered CHILD support who are getting screwed as well. We all need to take responsibility when it comes to separation and divorce.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

curiousbear

Pardon my english. It was in a lunch I heard from him. It was very personal. And when I was shocked the other men on table said "Welcome to America". Unfortunately there were no women on the lunch table for an alternative point of view.

"I don't think alimony should ever apply, unless it's for a woman who hasn't worked and then it should be provided only to survive until she completes training or school."
After marraige first thing I did was to make her realize that she can be on her own. I put her through trainings, and made her have a job/career. She was very happy with all that. And I had to force her to save all her money and invest. Now she resigned to come with me to the US.

But I cant even imagine giving half of what I had made It is just that I have come a very very long way to get it.

Jewels, Thanks for your patience and details, sorry if I sounded rude

jewels

No problem, cb

I am still a woman, though. And if she doesn't make as much as you do, it would still be really nice *fluttering eyelashes* that you'd want to share with her, seeing that she stood by your side and took such good care of you.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

curiousbear

She takes care of me like no one else can. She is wonderful. She stands all my erratic responses too. But I cant share my properties. She can use it. She can use it even if she had left me. But I cant give ownership share. And of course it will always be me who will bear all my children's expenses. No matter where they live. The point is I own what I own, I cant give up my ownership. And I dont want to own what she earned.

My friend's daughter claims thier car is her car! She is 6 years old. I tell her "No it is your dad's car". My friend thinks it is an unnecessary argumnet. But I always tell her that it is her dad's car, and not hers. I am sure one day she is going to appreciate my honesty and reality. I have a gut feeling one day she is going to be a friend of mine. My children too wont get any property from me. They can use my car, house, and even me! But they have to make thier own. I dont see the necessity of taking something someone earned and give it to others.

If a spouse sacrificed a career/job, and raised kids, it is so obvious that during separation, she has to be supported. Both her life and child-support. That doesnt mean she can take half of what the man has. Neither can she expect the man to support to continue the same life style. That is not even ethical. So poor marry rich man and ends up rich. Even after she leaves him she has to be rich? Rather she should end up where she orginally belonged.

Only exception is when my spouse left me but met with a life event crisis like accident or cancer! I can give up the property in that case to help.

kutulu

Dude, it's community property. Jordan and his wife were married for about 15 years and I don't think there was a prenup.

I can understand alimony payments to a former spouse for a limited amount of time (1 year or so). After that, they need to stand on their own.

Child support is completely different. That should be based on what people can afford to pay.

cj2112

When I divorced my ex-wife, I got custody of the children, I kept both my vehicles, she got her stuff, we split the debt down the middle, I got the majority of the household items, etc. She was ordered to pay about $500/month for child support (which I have never seen one cent of). Whoever told you that, may have been speaking about their situation, but not all divorces in the US go the way you were told.

curiousbear

cj2112, thanks, that is a concrete answer! Next time I hear such a thing I will not be dumb found

jorgelito

Actually, Jewels answered it better than I.
-----Added 25/9/2008 at 09 : 21 : 46-----
But you are assuming she took care of him. If she took such good care, why divorce? For example.

__________________
"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but
to the one that endures to the end."

"Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!"

- My recruiter