Jozrael

If this is in the wrong section, apologies!

Heyas =). Long time lurker, though I posted a bit awhiles back. I think I might have even posted once about this before. Regardless:

(Note: I, Krystan (the girlfriend), am helping compose this).

My girlfriend and I have been together two years this June 22nd. It's been a great ride, and we don't want it to end. At many times over the course of this period, we have had problems (which relationship doesn't?). They range from the trivial to the sexual to the financial to the whatever.

The real problem with us is how do we deal with our problems. Each of us has our flaws, but we each have a particular one when it comes to compromising.

We're both very hard-headed, but in opposite ways. I'm hard-headed when it comes to...groups, I guess, while she's hard-headed one on one. For example.

If it's just me and her, and we're having a disagreement, if each of us cares about it enough, she will almost always 'win'. I know it's not about that, but just for ease of description I'll call it 'winning' and 'losing'. Whoever gets their way most, compromises the least. There are occasional exceptions.

However, I have a matching flaw that irks her as well. If there's something she suggests for me to do or do differently, and a separate person is nearby and joins in on her side, it changes the way I look at it. I kind of see it as being 'ganged up on', and grow exceedingly resistant to changing my opinion whatsoever.

I'm also better at vocalizing my thoughts and emotions, so I have an unfair edge at times in these arguments. While not perfect, I'm better at it than her, which can make her feel inferior.

One very important way that her stubbornness affects our relationship is that I like to give advice (I learned this from some role models in my life). I feel that I have a lot of very useful information to impart to her and can get annoyed when she doesn't take it into consideration. That's my flaw.

Her flaw is that she rarely (in her words, never) actually takes my advice into consideration. At some later point she might see the benefit of my words, but then she is able to justify it to herself in a way that it's not really taking my advice.

Alright, now that you have the background, it boils down to this. The real friction in our relationship comes from the one on one stubbornness (mine is something I need to work on, but it's not the immediate source for most of our arguments).

She knows that she needs to learn to compromise. Every time we argue, she says that it'll be different the next time because she'll realize that it's not a big deal and that she'll be able to compromise. Then next time comes, and... ferocious cycle. D: (<- worded by the girlfriend herself)

We're in a big cycle, and we both want to break out of it.

Any ideas? =D?

If there's any more information I can provide, I will gladly do so. Thanks for your time.

EDIT: Some more information. I'm 20, she's 18. We both would like to do couple's counseling (if not now, in the future, even if there's no problems. Just seems like an intelligent thing to do), but lack the means to do so right now (college for both of us = expensive).

blktour

I just ended my relationship becuase of this. my ex would never want to talk about things, and always said she would change and asked me to remind her when she was doing it, and she never did. we would have a disagreement and I would listen to her and when it was my turn to speak she would cut me off, and say I was wrong, and "felt" as if she needed to defend herself. I never yelled or raised my voice or anything. To me it was her "defense" for everything.

I was the one always fixing things and she would just give up and yell and walk away, and then i had to "give in" to her and let it go, but the next week the same problem came up.

I am 24 and she is 35, so with that in mind, i told myself that I am in a different stage in my life, forever changing and fixing things and learning, and she was content with her life. so I just split.

in the end, if someone wants to change, they will. or at least make an effort.

Martian

blktour raises an interesting point and I'll get to it. But let's start at the beginning, shall we?

So first of all, you're both very young. There's nothing wrong with that, except to keep in mind that late teens and early twenties is a time of major growth for all people. These are the years that you're going to really find out who you are as a person. I hate to raise that particular gremlin, but I feel obligated to point out that this is why most young couples don't last. You're at a point where you're growing a lot; not physically so much anymore, but emotionally and mentally. Sometimes people just grow apart. I'm not saying that's happening or going to happen; I'm just throwing it out there.

Now on to the meat of the problem.

What's interesting to me about this particular situation (and the reason that I'm replying) is that you both realize exactly where the sticking points are. You know precisely what's causing issues in your relationship, but you seem to be at a loss on how to fix them. I'm going to offer a few suggestions, but it's up to you to interpret, adapt and implement them as you see fit.

First off, fights aren't a big deal. All relationships have them, and anyone who tells you theirs doesn't is a liar. The simple reality is that no two people are 100% compatible on every point, and that's where the friction comes from. Whether it's because she won't give you a blowjob or you leave your socks on the floor, whatever. There's always something. What differentiates the successful couples from the unsuccessful ones, then, is how these issues are resolved. The unsuccessful couples tend to be the ones who always get into shouting matches and get tied up in who is or is not right. That's definitely the wrong way to look at it, since in a lot of these situations there is no right or wrong, and if you want to make it that way it's going to be both of you who lose in the end. What you need to do is figure out how to find a new way of approaching it, then.

The first modification I would suggest is learning to make value judgments. This is very simple; when a point of contention comes up, take a look at it and figure out just how important it is to you. If it's not a big deal, then maybe it's not worth making a fuss over. Continuing the above example, it's really not that much harder to throw your socks in the hamper at the end of the day and if that's something that's truly important to her than it might just be simpler to put in that little extra bit of effort. On her side, maybe she doesn't like that you don't tell her you love her often enough, and maybe that's important. But maybe she can learn to understand that you have other ways of showing your affection and place less of an emphasis on the actual words. That's another type of value judgment because it becomes less important after applying a bit of empathy, which is the next bit.

As an aside, I have no idea what it is you two actually fight over and really that's not important to the discussion. All of these are somewhat generic examples and a few might even come from past relationships of my own.

So, yeah. Empathy. This is the next thing you can do to help defuse these situations (and that's really what you want to do). When you get in an argument about something, take a moment to stop and put yourself in the other person's shoes. For some people this comes easily and others it's less so, but everyone can do it with a bit of practice. Jozrael, you say that you have an easier time verbalizing your emotions, so this will probably be easier for you to do; it's been my experience that people who understand their own emotions have an easier time understanding those of others. As an example, you Jozrael have stated that you feel 'ganged up on' when there's a third party in the discussion who agrees with Krystan. So Krystan, being aware of this and able to understand how that could be, may decide to leave an issue until you can discuss it one on one. That way Jozrael doesn't feel like he's having to defend himself and you can actually have a productive talk on whatever it is that needs to be dealt with.

On the other hand, Jozrael loves to give advice, but looking at it the other way might be able to understand that Krystan interprets this as being condescending and is understandably upset about it, thus becoming contrary out of spite. Jozrael might therefore decide that sometimes it's okay to let Krystan do things her own way, and that if she needs help she'll ask him for it.

This whole addressing both sides thing is new to me. Usually we only get one party here and it's harder to be helpful, but also less confusing to type out what I want to say. Anyway, moving on.

blktour mentioned that people have to want to change. This is very true, and is the interesting point that I wanted to get to. You both recognize that there's a problem and now you're both recognizing that actually making the necessary changes to fix the problem is bloody hard work. Krystan knows, for example, that she gets too invested in the arguments and has trouble being able to compromise because of it. She can sit down in a neutral setting and explain the exact process. But in the heat of the moment, all of those thoughts just go right out the window and she's back to Krystan the pitbull. It's very difficult to take a moment and step back to be able to see that it's happening in situ. This is a sticking point for a lot of couples. The only thing I can really suggest is that you help each other. It's a very delicate thing and the exact process will depend on your relationship and your individual personalities. But maybe if Krystan doesn't recognize that she's engaging in a negative behaviour pattern, Jozrael can gently point it out to her. Being aware of the issue is the first and hardest step required to fix it. Once that happens it's up to Krystan to recognize that she is in fact falling back on old habits and make the effort to step out of that.

What's really going to help is if you can get over the idea of these points of contention being adversarial. It's not a case of winning or losing or right or wrong or good or bad. The real goal needs to be figuring out the solution to the problem that works best for both parties. There's an old saying that the definition of compromise is a solution that nobody's happy with. It's a humourous way of pointing out that a compromise is rarely a perfect solution for either person, but rather the solution that both are able to be okay with. Sometimes it'll mean one person completely capitulates (socks go in the hamper), sometimes it'll mean a middle ground. Sometimes it'll be easy to find and sometimes it'll take days of discussion. Finding the right answer isn't always going to be easy; this is why people say that relationships are a lot of work. But there's usually one to be had, and if the two of you are really serious about this, then you'll find it.

Good luck to you both.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Manic_Skafe

Wow Martian, looks like someone is putting in over time for that Titled Mentor award.

Anyway, Martian offers sound advice. Do as he says.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

snowy

Martian's advice is excellent. Having empathy for one's partner is key, I think. It's an issue I've had to deal with in my own relationship.

On your desire to pursue couples counseling, I would advise you to see what your college has on offer as regards to psychological services. I know my university offers 10 visits with a University Psychological and Counseling Services therapist a term, paid via student fees. Most universities have similar services--take advantage of it, because more than likely you're paying for it somehow anyways.

Also, if either of you have health insurance, most good health insurance plans cover some kind of mental health service as well. This can extend to couples counseling.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Jozrael

It being my bedtime, I don't have time for a lengthy reply (in the morning)

I'd just like to give you a big thank you from both of us Martian, you've given us a lot of useful advice to puzzle over.

W.e this mentor thing is you deserve it ^^

MSD

I want to expand on Martian's first point. At your age, you are still growing a lot emotionally, and at 18 and 20, you are still emotionally immature to an extent. Hell, I'm 24 and I still have growing to do (fortunately not on the physical side.) When you put two numbers next to each other and see a difference of 2, only 10%, it doesn't seem like much; what if I rephrase it as such: 18 is just out of high school and 20 is halfway through college"? Seems like a bigger gap that way, and you probably know exactly what I mean.

You're at very different places in your lives now. The fact that you want to make it work puts you way the hell ahead of most people out there, who would just call it quits. Keep talking it out when you're not mad, and if there's a campus counselor at your school, ask for advice there, we have a psych professor on campus who does free counseling for students, faculty, and staff. You'll probably manage to work it out if you care enough to ask for help.
You can nominate/vote here http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=136616

Seer666

Well, this is an interesting one.
First of, let me just say that I think it's awesome that the two of you worked this one together. It speaks highly of both of you that you are able to sit down on this one together and be able to point out both of your flaws in this.

While I can't really add to much to what Martian said, I just want to stress the value of trying to see things from the other persons side. Also argue naked when you can. If you can stay pissed at someone while they are naked, you know you have something that needs to be worked on.

Really though, next time this happens, both of you stop, take a step back for a minute, and look at the other persons view. I mean really look. Don't take it as a break to figure out your next come back. Both of you are still pretty young. Be prepaired to face that the cause of some of these spats is that you are growing in diferent directions and you aren't as well of a fit as you used to be. Aside from that, all I can do is wish you luck.

__________________
Bad spellers of the world untie!!!

I am the one you warned me of

I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.