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Martian · 06-20-2008, 05:57 PM

blktour raises an interesting point and I'll get to it. But let's start at the beginning, shall we?

So first of all, you're both very young. There's nothing wrong with that, except to keep in mind that late teens and early twenties is a time of major growth for all people. These are the years that you're going to really find out who you are as a person. I hate to raise that particular gremlin, but I feel obligated to point out that this is why most young couples don't last. You're at a point where you're growing a lot; not physically so much anymore, but emotionally and mentally. Sometimes people just grow apart. I'm not saying that's happening or going to happen; I'm just throwing it out there.

Now on to the meat of the problem.

What's interesting to me about this particular situation (and the reason that I'm replying) is that you both realize exactly where the sticking points are. You know precisely what's causing issues in your relationship, but you seem to be at a loss on how to fix them. I'm going to offer a few suggestions, but it's up to you to interpret, adapt and implement them as you see fit.

First off, fights aren't a big deal. All relationships have them, and anyone who tells you theirs doesn't is a liar. The simple reality is that no two people are 100% compatible on every point, and that's where the friction comes from. Whether it's because she won't give you a blowjob or you leave your socks on the floor, whatever. There's always something. What differentiates the successful couples from the unsuccessful ones, then, is how these issues are resolved. The unsuccessful couples tend to be the ones who always get into shouting matches and get tied up in who is or is not right. That's definitely the wrong way to look at it, since in a lot of these situations there is no right or wrong, and if you want to make it that way it's going to be both of you who lose in the end. What you need to do is figure out how to find a new way of approaching it, then.

The first modification I would suggest is learning to make value judgments. This is very simple; when a point of contention comes up, take a look at it and figure out just how important it is to you. If it's not a big deal, then maybe it's not worth making a fuss over. Continuing the above example, it's really not that much harder to throw your socks in the hamper at the end of the day and if that's something that's truly important to her than it might just be simpler to put in that little extra bit of effort. On her side, maybe she doesn't like that you don't tell her you love her often enough, and maybe that's important. But maybe she can learn to understand that you have other ways of showing your affection and place less of an emphasis on the actual words. That's another type of value judgment because it becomes less important after applying a bit of empathy, which is the next bit.

As an aside, I have no idea what it is you two actually fight over and really that's not important to the discussion. All of these are somewhat generic examples and a few might even come from past relationships of my own.

So, yeah. Empathy. This is the next thing you can do to help defuse these situations (and that's really what you want to do). When you get in an argument about something, take a moment to stop and put yourself in the other person's shoes. For some people this comes easily and others it's less so, but everyone can do it with a bit of practice. Jozrael, you say that you have an easier time verbalizing your emotions, so this will probably be easier for you to do; it's been my experience that people who understand their own emotions have an easier time understanding those of others. As an example, you Jozrael have stated that you feel 'ganged up on' when there's a third party in the discussion who agrees with Krystan. So Krystan, being aware of this and able to understand how that could be, may decide to leave an issue until you can discuss it one on one. That way Jozrael doesn't feel like he's having to defend himself and you can actually have a productive talk on whatever it is that needs to be dealt with.

On the other hand, Jozrael loves to give advice, but looking at it the other way might be able to understand that Krystan interprets this as being condescending and is understandably upset about it, thus becoming contrary out of spite. Jozrael might therefore decide that sometimes it's okay to let Krystan do things her own way, and that if she needs help she'll ask him for it.

This whole addressing both sides thing is new to me. Usually we only get one party here and it's harder to be helpful, but also less confusing to type out what I want to say. Anyway, moving on.

blktour mentioned that people have to want to change. This is very true, and is the interesting point that I wanted to get to. You both recognize that there's a problem and now you're both recognizing that actually making the necessary changes to fix the problem is bloody hard work. Krystan knows, for example, that she gets too invested in the arguments and has trouble being able to compromise because of it. She can sit down in a neutral setting and explain the exact process. But in the heat of the moment, all of those thoughts just go right out the window and she's back to Krystan the pitbull. It's very difficult to take a moment and step back to be able to see that it's happening in situ. This is a sticking point for a lot of couples. The only thing I can really suggest is that you help each other. It's a very delicate thing and the exact process will depend on your relationship and your individual personalities. But maybe if Krystan doesn't recognize that she's engaging in a negative behaviour pattern, Jozrael can gently point it out to her. Being aware of the issue is the first and hardest step required to fix it. Once that happens it's up to Krystan to recognize that she is in fact falling back on old habits and make the effort to step out of that.

What's really going to help is if you can get over the idea of these points of contention being adversarial. It's not a case of winning or losing or right or wrong or good or bad. The real goal needs to be figuring out the solution to the problem that works best for both parties. There's an old saying that the definition of compromise is a solution that nobody's happy with. It's a humourous way of pointing out that a compromise is rarely a perfect solution for either person, but rather the solution that both are able to be okay with. Sometimes it'll mean one person completely capitulates (socks go in the hamper), sometimes it'll mean a middle ground. Sometimes it'll be easy to find and sometimes it'll take days of discussion. Finding the right answer isn't always going to be easy; this is why people say that relationships are a lot of work. But there's usually one to be had, and if the two of you are really serious about this, then you'll find it.

Good luck to you both.

06-20-2008, 05:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	blktour raises an interesting point and I'll get to it. But let's start at the beginning, shall we? So first of all, you're both very young. There's nothing wrong with that, except to keep in mind that late teens and early twenties is a time of major growth for all people. These are the years that you're going to really find out who you are as a person. I hate to raise that particular gremlin, but I feel obligated to point out that this is why most young couples don't last. You're at a point where you're growing a lot; not physically so much anymore, but emotionally and mentally. Sometimes people just grow apart. I'm not saying that's happening or going to happen; I'm just throwing it out there. Now on to the meat of the problem. What's interesting to me about this particular situation (and the reason that I'm replying) is that you both realize exactly where the sticking points are. You know precisely what's causing issues in your relationship, but you seem to be at a loss on how to fix them. I'm going to offer a few suggestions, but it's up to you to interpret, adapt and implement them as you see fit. First off, fights aren't a big deal. All relationships have them, and anyone who tells you theirs doesn't is a liar. The simple reality is that no two people are 100% compatible on every point, and that's where the friction comes from. Whether it's because she won't give you a blowjob or you leave your socks on the floor, whatever. There's always something. What differentiates the successful couples from the unsuccessful ones, then, is how these issues are resolved. The unsuccessful couples tend to be the ones who always get into shouting matches and get tied up in who is or is not right. That's definitely the wrong way to look at it, since in a lot of these situations there is no right or wrong, and if you want to make it that way it's going to be both of you who lose in the end. What you need to do is figure out how to find a new way of approaching it, then. The first modification I would suggest is learning to make value judgments. This is very simple; when a point of contention comes up, take a look at it and figure out just how important it is to you. If it's not a big deal, then maybe it's not worth making a fuss over. Continuing the above example, it's really not that much harder to throw your socks in the hamper at the end of the day and if that's something that's truly important to her than it might just be simpler to put in that little extra bit of effort. On her side, maybe she doesn't like that you don't tell her you love her often enough, and maybe that's important. But maybe she can learn to understand that you have other ways of showing your affection and place less of an emphasis on the actual words. That's another type of value judgment because it becomes less important after applying a bit of empathy, which is the next bit. As an aside, I have no idea what it is you two actually fight over and really that's not important to the discussion. All of these are somewhat generic examples and a few might even come from past relationships of my own. So, yeah. Empathy. This is the next thing you can do to help defuse these situations (and that's really what you want to do). When you get in an argument about something, take a moment to stop and put yourself in the other person's shoes. For some people this comes easily and others it's less so, but everyone can do it with a bit of practice. Jozrael, you say that you have an easier time verbalizing your emotions, so this will probably be easier for you to do; it's been my experience that people who understand their own emotions have an easier time understanding those of others. As an example, you Jozrael have stated that you feel 'ganged up on' when there's a third party in the discussion who agrees with Krystan. So Krystan, being aware of this and able to understand how that could be, may decide to leave an issue until you can discuss it one on one. That way Jozrael doesn't feel like he's having to defend himself and you can actually have a productive talk on whatever it is that needs to be dealt with. On the other hand, Jozrael loves to give advice, but looking at it the other way might be able to understand that Krystan interprets this as being condescending and is understandably upset about it, thus becoming contrary out of spite. Jozrael might therefore decide that sometimes it's okay to let Krystan do things her own way, and that if she needs help she'll ask him for it. This whole addressing both sides thing is new to me. Usually we only get one party here and it's harder to be helpful, but also less confusing to type out what I want to say. Anyway, moving on. blktour mentioned that people have to want to change. This is very true, and is the interesting point that I wanted to get to. You both recognize that there's a problem and now you're both recognizing that actually making the necessary changes to fix the problem is bloody hard work. Krystan knows, for example, that she gets too invested in the arguments and has trouble being able to compromise because of it. She can sit down in a neutral setting and explain the exact process. But in the heat of the moment, all of those thoughts just go right out the window and she's back to Krystan the pitbull. It's very difficult to take a moment and step back to be able to see that it's happening in situ. This is a sticking point for a lot of couples. The only thing I can really suggest is that you help each other. It's a very delicate thing and the exact process will depend on your relationship and your individual personalities. But maybe if Krystan doesn't recognize that she's engaging in a negative behaviour pattern, Jozrael can gently point it out to her. Being aware of the issue is the first and hardest step required to fix it. Once that happens it's up to Krystan to recognize that she is in fact falling back on old habits and make the effort to step out of that. What's really going to help is if you can get over the idea of these points of contention being adversarial. It's not a case of winning or losing or right or wrong or good or bad. The real goal needs to be figuring out the solution to the problem that works best for both parties. There's an old saying that the definition of compromise is a solution that nobody's happy with. It's a humourous way of pointing out that a compromise is rarely a perfect solution for either person, but rather the solution that both are able to be okay with. Sometimes it'll mean one person completely capitulates (socks go in the hamper), sometimes it'll mean a middle ground. Sometimes it'll be easy to find and sometimes it'll take days of discussion. Finding the right answer isn't always going to be easy; this is why people say that relationships are a lot of work. But there's usually one to be had, and if the two of you are really serious about this, then you'll find it. Good luck to you both. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame