Lovers: Third part responsibility? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

girldetective · 02-05-2008, 08:53 PM

We've all heard occasionally of one partner in a committed relationship taking a companion (euphemism for long-term committed lover) that they keep separate from their marriage. The key words re the lover are long-term and committed. Think Jackie Onassis and Maurice Templeton or Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy, or whoever else. You know what I mean. At least the two lovers know that there is another committed relationship, and sometimes the third person knows about the others. It sounds complicated.

Anyway, if the new lover knows that the other is married/committed to another, what responsibility do they play in that marriage/commitment of their partner in the other relationship? And if the new lover keeps this relationship simple and asks no questions about that other relationship, none whatsoever, but just knows that there is a commitment on their partner's part to another, does the lover even have an effect on that first relationship?

In other words, what responsibility does a lover of a married partner play in anything other than relationship with the lover? The lover has no relationship with the other's partner.

For the record, this is not a true scenario in my life in any sense; just a question posed.

Ustwo · 02-05-2008, 09:05 PM

Xazy · 02-06-2008, 05:32 AM

Morally my belief is treat others how you want to be treated yourself. So if you do not feel your spouse cheating with someone else and you would not blame the other person, you are probably lying to yourself to justify causing this person to cheat. We all know you would not like it in reverse so you are guilty. What percent of guilt that is for G-d to figure out, but you are still partly to blame.

abaya · 02-06-2008, 05:36 AM

Karma's known to bite such people in the ass. There are no two ways around it... guilt by association, in my mind. The only way the 3rd party can be free of responsibility is if both parties in the original couple are open and communicative about the 3rd person, and all agree that it's not cheating.

girldetective · 02-06-2008, 06:24 AM

I agree with all of you that this is a moral predicament and dangerous ground to tread, no question about it. One hopes that each of us is true and steadfast in our promises and that we treat one another with respect, whether we know them or not. What I wonder though is if the new lover is kept totally separate and knows absolutely nothing of the other committed relationship except that it exists, what responsibility do they have to that committed relationship? Doesn't the responsibility and the immorality fall to the one in the committed relationship who has made a promise, whose behavior is contrary to that by taking a lover? The new lover has made no commitment to their partner's partner. Does it make a difference if the lovers remain companions for years and years while the one continues in the committed relationship?

abaya · 02-06-2008, 09:35 AM

Guilty by association. Anything else is an attempt at rationalizing one's way out of personal responsibility.

Miss Mango · 02-06-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Anyway, if the new lover knows that the other is married or committed to another, what responsibility do they play in that marriage/commitment of their partner in the other relationship? And if the new lover keeps this relationship simple and asks no questions about that other relationship, none whatsoever, but just knows that there is a commitment on their partner\'s part to another, does the lover even have effect on that first relationship?

Well ... it all depends.
Firstly, it depends on why a third person was introduced into that relationship. Lack of sex? Disharmony? Need to get out of first relationship? Boredom? Craving excitement?

The third person *always* has effect on the other relationship. I don\'t believe you can love, be in love with, or make love to two people in the one time frame. Not when you are committed to either one of them. It\'s almost impossible. Tacit or intended, one person will always be denied some sort of attention as it\'s redirected to the other. The image of one returning home, fresh from the arms of a lover into the receptive arms of a spouse is just ... repugnant. And it comes back to my first statement, how committed is this person to that first relationship? If there is a \"loveless marriage\" then the third person may act as a catalyst for the end of the marriage. Or, could also act as the abysmal failure that makes the other person reaffirm that they are indeed better of staying married and committed to one person.

The one thing you haven\'t addressed is the intentions of the person keeping the lover. Is that person making promises to the lover, planning and plotting the day of the natural conclusion to their relationship - an exclusive relationship of their own? If there are no promises beyond mutual sexual satisfaction then the only impact the lover can have on the marriage is as I stated earlier, affirmation or annihilation.

Quote:

In other words, what responsibility does a lover of a married partner play in anything other than relationship with the lover? The lover has no relationship with the partner.

I believe the lover has a relationship by proxy to the partner. Comparisons will be made. Judgments will be handed down. Over time, things get more personal that just sex and comments, conversations and plans emerge.

While I believe firmly that you can love more than one person at one time, I believe you can not be seriously, deeply in love with more than one person at one time. Love can be mistaken for many things, lust, loneliness and escapism.

If you\'re that committed to your partner ... you should not need a lover. That person should be able to fulfill all your personal, sexual, emotional and spiritual needs. Full stop.

There\'s a reason people take a lover, and it is directly or indirectly linked to their feelings about their partner.

I speak from experience.

I have to add, these are just my opinions. They are not written in stone, or written with any other intent than to inadequately express what I feel.

girldetective · 02-06-2008, 09:01 PM

MM: I was thinking that the intention was lover/companion as a part of their everyday life, long-term meaning many years. So there would be two commitments for the one lover, that I suppose would ebb and flow. I was thinking an acceptance of the way it was rather than any plotting or planning. I was perhaps thinking in a more ideal, fictional way. What if there were no other intentions? What if the relationships really were kept separate by all parties, with no judgement.

I think I might feel a little differently about love than you do right now, although I certainly understand how you feel and have felt that way myself at times. Lately, I believe one can be deeply in love with more than two people at a time and maintain separate, fulfilling relationships. Of course the only examples I can think to give you don't include lovers, but do include falling deeply in love with one's children, and I believe that is very deep love. Or having a loving group of friends, which can sometimes be deep.

UKking · 02-06-2008, 10:38 PM

It's interesting because I don't support cheating, but I find the story of Katharine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy to be so romantic. If I recall correctly, Tracy and his wife were Catholic and didn't believe in divorce. I read a bio many years back about Hepburn and Tracy and was just fascinated by their relationship. What appealed to me about them was that it really did seem like a relationship where there were no expectations.

I think for a triangle to work, and for all parties to be involved, there has to be that- no expectations or demands- on all three people involved.

What responsibility does the lover have? They can't be demanding. There's a reason their lover isn't leaving their relationship and they have to be accepting of that. If you can't accept it, don't get involved.

allaboutmusic · 02-06-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKking

It's interesting because I don't support cheating, but I find the story of Katharine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy to be so romantic.

I don't think anyone could argue that extra-marital relationships can be romantic.

Seems like a separate issue to me.

Miss Mango · 02-06-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namako

MM: I was thinking that the intention was lover/companion as a part of their everyday life, long-term meaning many years. So there would be two commitments for the one lover, that I suppose would ebb and flow. I was thinking an acceptance of the way it was rather than any plotting or planning. I was perhaps thinking in a more ideal, fictional way. What if there were no other intentions? What if the relationships really were kept separate by all parties, with no judgement.

I think I might feel a little differently about love than you do right now, although I certainly understand how you feel and have felt that way myself at times. Lately, I believe one can be deeply in love with more than two people at a time and maintain separate, fulfilling relationships. Of course the only examples I can think to give you don\'t include lovers, but do include falling deeply in love with one\'s children, and I believe that is very deep love. Or having a loving group of friends, which can sometimes be deep.

I agree with your opinions on love too, and I\'m glad we both agree on the common ground regarding lovers.

Do you think that it is possible, to be married to one, and have another stored away secretly and still be able to maintain both those relationships, and fulfill and in return, be fulfilled?

girldetective · 02-08-2008, 12:10 AM

MM: I don't know. Yes, I think it is possible. I think it would depend on the circumstances and timing.

To be honest, being the one with two lovers sounds fab because I might have the time to devote to two relationships and I'm at my best when kooky in love. If I didn't have the time I think I would be overwhelmed, tired, and a mess. If I were the second lover and met the first lover I would probably feel ashamed; and if I were the first lover I would probably be consumed with jealousy. I don't know that I could stomach it in practice. I'm not that compartmentalized or detached. I'm too emotional.

02-05-2008, 08:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	Lovers: Third part responsibility? We've all heard occasionally of one partner in a committed relationship taking a companion (euphemism for long-term committed lover) that they keep separate from their marriage. The key words re the lover are long-term and committed. Think Jackie Onassis and Maurice Templeton or Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy, or whoever else. You know what I mean. At least the two lovers know that there is another committed relationship, and sometimes the third person knows about the others. It sounds complicated. Anyway, if the new lover knows that the other is married/committed to another, what responsibility do they play in that marriage/commitment of their partner in the other relationship? And if the new lover keeps this relationship simple and asks no questions about that other relationship, none whatsoever, but just knows that there is a commitment on their partner's part to another, does the lover even have an effect on that first relationship? In other words, what responsibility does a lover of a married partner play in anything other than relationship with the lover? The lover has no relationship with the other's partner. For the record, this is not a true scenario in my life in any sense; just a question posed. Last edited by girldetective; 02-05-2008 at 11:37 PM..

02-05-2008, 09:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SV2aCOG8UeU&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SV2aCOG8UeU&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> Bad mojo. Morally I think the one who knows the partner is cheating holds some responsibility as well. Its helping someone hurt another. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

02-06-2008, 05:36 AM	#4 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Karma's known to bite such people in the ass. There are no two ways around it... guilt by association, in my mind. The only way the 3rd party can be free of responsibility is if both parties in the original couple are open and communicative about the 3rd person, and all agree that it's not cheating. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

02-06-2008, 09:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Guilty by association. Anything else is an attempt at rationalizing one's way out of personal responsibility. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

02-06-2008, 05:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	Morally my belief is treat others how you want to be treated yourself. So if you do not feel your spouse cheating with someone else and you would not blame the other person, you are probably lying to yourself to justify causing this person to cheat. We all know you would not like it in reverse so you are guilty. What percent of guilt that is for G-d to figure out, but you are still partly to blame.

02-06-2008, 06:24 AM	#5 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	I agree with all of you that this is a moral predicament and dangerous ground to tread, no question about it. One hopes that each of us is true and steadfast in our promises and that we treat one another with respect, whether we know them or not. What I wonder though is if the new lover is kept totally separate and knows absolutely nothing of the other committed relationship except that it exists, what responsibility do they have to that committed relationship? Doesn't the responsibility and the immorality fall to the one in the committed relationship who has made a promise, whose behavior is contrary to that by taking a lover? The new lover has made no commitment to their partner's partner. Does it make a difference if the lovers remain companions for years and years while the one continues in the committed relationship?

02-06-2008, 09:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	MM: I was thinking that the intention was lover/companion as a part of their everyday life, long-term meaning many years. So there would be two commitments for the one lover, that I suppose would ebb and flow. I was thinking an acceptance of the way it was rather than any plotting or planning. I was perhaps thinking in a more ideal, fictional way. What if there were no other intentions? What if the relationships really were kept separate by all parties, with no judgement. I think I might feel a little differently about love than you do right now, although I certainly understand how you feel and have felt that way myself at times. Lately, I believe one can be deeply in love with more than two people at a time and maintain separate, fulfilling relationships. Of course the only examples I can think to give you don't include lovers, but do include falling deeply in love with one's children, and I believe that is very deep love. Or having a loving group of friends, which can sometimes be deep.

02-06-2008, 10:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
UKking Crazy	It's interesting because I don't support cheating, but I find the story of Katharine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy to be so romantic. If I recall correctly, Tracy and his wife were Catholic and didn't believe in divorce. I read a bio many years back about Hepburn and Tracy and was just fascinated by their relationship. What appealed to me about them was that it really did seem like a relationship where there were no expectations. I think for a triangle to work, and for all parties to be involved, there has to be that- no expectations or demands- on all three people involved. What responsibility does the lover have? They can't be demanding. There's a reason their lover isn't leaving their relationship and they have to be accepting of that. If you can't accept it, don't get involved.

02-08-2008, 12:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	MM: I don't know. Yes, I think it is possible. I think it would depend on the circumstances and timing. To be honest, being the one with two lovers sounds fab because I might have the time to devote to two relationships and I'm at my best when kooky in love. If I didn't have the time I think I would be overwhelmed, tired, and a mess. If I were the second lover and met the first lover I would probably feel ashamed; and if I were the first lover I would probably be consumed with jealousy. I don't know that I could stomach it in practice. I'm not that compartmentalized or detached. I'm too emotional.