dd3953

We all know that there more than enough reasons for one not to smoke [cigarettes].

We also know there are a number of reasons why one should not eat meat, cut down trees, throw away things that can be recycled, eat too much fast food, drink too much alcohol, take too many pills at one time, or jump over the Falls in a barrel. However, we can chose to do these things when ever we want to.

Why should I be forced to smoke outside - in the cold? Isn't that why we had smoking sections? I understand that we are to believe people are dying from second-hand smoke. But we are also supposed to believe that smoking weed while babysitting will lead to you to kill the kid you are sitting for - and if you smoked weed you would know this is not true.

I can't find the numbers, but I read that out of all the people who get cancer only about 20 to 30 % get lung cancer. And that only about 15% (I'm rounding up here) of that 30% is caused from smoking. Does smoking cause some other type of cancer that I don't know about? Have these numbers greatly changed? Or was I told wrong in the first place?

Four years ago a college (in NY state) allowing smoking in the dorm rooms. Three years, when I became a student, the rules changed - you had to go outside. Two years ago the rules changed again, and had to be 25 feet away from any doors in order to legally enjoy a cigarette. Now, I work at this college, and the only store on campus that sells cigarettes are no longer selling them. The folks who run the college want to band smoking - unless you are in a parking lot. In a parking lot? I'm ALREADY outside. Non-smokers are already pissed I get a few extra 10 minute break during the work day (not that they would want to deal with me if I didn't take that break) but now you piss them off more by making 20 minutes, because it's going to take me 10 to get to and from the parking lot. Also, lets encourage all the smoking students (who pay way too much money to be here in the first place) lets encourage them to break the rules.

The store not selling cigarettes would be fine - if the closet gas station/store was not a 30 minute walk away. I know how long it talks to walk there, I didn't have a car then, don't have one now.

The college believes they are following a good example. This is because Wegman's - a major grocery store - has stopped selling cigarettes. However, no one took the time to see WHY Wegman's has stopped ordering new shipments of cigarettes. There reason being - people are buying less. This is because Wegman's charges too much for their cigarettes, but instead of lower their prices, they have decided to stop selling them all together. It is not like they were acting for the good of the people.

Cigarettes are also one of highest taxed products you can find. Why is everyone so quick to support the media in their "kill the smokers" campaign? I mean, what would you do if everyone really did stop smoking? Do we have jobs for all the people working in the fields and factories? Do we have the money to cover what's coming from the taxes on cigarettes?

Fine smoke kills, but cigarettes are not (yet) illegal and I should be able to enjoy one. But if this keeps up smoking will no longer be my choice - I mean it will be, but I'll be risking getting arrested and/fined for doing so.

__________________
[Technically, I'm not possible, I'm made of exceptions. ]

PonyPotato

And walking to class and in and out of doors without getting a face full of smoke should be my choice, too.. and if multiple people also feel the same way, they can work within the system to get things changed. If more people feel the same way you do, why don't you join together and get something changed instead of complaining about it?

Businesses can choose to stop selling cigarettes. Campuses can choose to protect their others students' health by banning smoking on campus (our medical center has a no tobacco policy, period, I see nurses smoking on the "line" all the time) because they are essentially businesses, as well. If a business has policies you don't like, take your business elsewhere.

Ohio has a public smoking ban. I personally enjoy the effects of it, but I did vote against it because I believe businesses and cities should make individual choices rather than a blanket decision statewide. I am very appreciative of Ohio's ban, though, and I felt the same way about the one in the city of Columbus before the statewide ban went into effect.

Cancer is not the only worry with smoking. I have a mild smoke allergy; I get migraines as a result of contact with secondhand smoke. It also smells bad, and clings to hair, clothes, everything.. If I go to a show in KY, I have to take painkillers beforehand, often take breaks to go outside for fresh air (And guess what! More smokers by the doors!) if the pain gets too bad, and then shower and do laundry as soon as I get home. Many businesses lost my patronage because of that, and I think a lot of restaurants that tried an entirely non-smoking policy realized that they have better business as a result: nonsmokers who don't like smoke are still paying customers, and smoking customers generally choose to refrain from smoking for an hour to have a meal or whatnot, or take a break outside to do so. If it wasn't a good business practice (i.e. if it didn't make them money), such a policy would probably not exist.

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Willravel

If you want to smoke inside, smoke inside your house. Second hand smoke is dangerous. If you drink in the same room as someone, they don't get drunk.

Byrnison

I'm on the fence about smoking in public, but agree you should be able to smoke in your own place if that's what you want to do. However, the City of Calabasas (a stone's throw away from where I live) thinks otherwise:

http://cbs2.com/health/calabasas.smo....2.633073.html

Martian

I could understand the merit of that argument if you were in a room filled with smoke. I know that this does occur - before the smoking ban went into effect here in Ontario, the local bingo hall would become filled with smoke to the point of restricting visibility on a busy night. I'll even concede that banning smoking within a school dormitory isn't wholly unreasonable; while one smoker inside his room with the door closed may not cause a problem for the entire building, if you have dozens of smokers leaving their doors open (as college students often do, judging by my admittedly limited experience of college dormitories) I could understand how that would adversely affect non-smoking students who have to share those hallways and other common areas.

Hell, I'll even concede the minimum distance rule. Non-smokers have to use the same entrances and exits and smokers and while I don't see how having to walk past a smoker (or even a group of them) could be a reason to get up in arms, I also figure from the smoker's perspective that walking an extra 10 feet for a fix isn't that big a deal.

That's as far as the argument logically extends, so far as I'm concerned.

I remember a few years ago when Keith Richards caused a stir in Scotland by lighting a cigarette on-stage. Scotland has a strict smoking ban in all public places. This, to me, is totally unreasonable. Who the hell was Keith hurting? The only person close enough to him to even smell the smoke was Mick, and between the two of them they've done enough drugs that I hardly think an extra cigarette will cause any serious harm.

To bring the argument to a more reasonable level, I do not understand in the least why banning smoking out of doors is even considered. It's the same thing on a smaller scale. I should think there would be sufficient room on an outdoor campus that any non-smokers who are sufficiently bothered by the habit would have no need to approach a smoker. Why banish them even further? What purpose does that serve?

I'll support reasonable restrictions. When dealing with enclosed public spaces that are shared by smokers and non-smokers, limiting where a smoker can light up makes sense. On the other hand, what does banning smoking from a college campus accomplish, aside from alienating a large group of students? What harm does someone smoking on a public street, or inside their own vehicle cause to anyone other than themselves?

I still believe in personal liberty. Smoking may not be a wise decision in the strictest sense, but as has been pointed out already it's not illegal yet. Allowing someone to enjoy their habit doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

__________________
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I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Fotzlid

I am one of those self-righteous former smokers.
I quit about 14 years ago. At one point, I had a 3 PPD habit. Quitting was a bitch, but it was the smartest thing I've ever done. It also appeals to my sense of symetry as it counters the stupidest thing I've ever done which was to start smoking in the first place.

I say ban the damn things. There isn't a single redeeming factor about them.
Where I work, smoking is still allowed outside. Its going to be a smoke-free facility soon. No smoking anywhere on the grounds. Should be interesting when that goes into effect as its not only for staff but for patients as well.

The OP mentioned lung cancer. Thats not the only disease associated with smoking. Emphysema is a much more common disease. Its a long, drawn out death. I have regular bouts of bronchitis and have been having more frequent episode of mild asthma. I attribute both to my 15 years of smoking.

As far as smoking in resturants, I'm glad they stopped that. Nothing worse than smoke wafting over into my space while I'm trying to enjoy a nice meal.
Until they banned indoor smoking, I stopped going to see live music in clubs. You could see the level of haze about halfway through the evening. Not to mention the massive headache from inhaling all that second hand smoke.

To smokers that complain about beeing shunned, yes you are. Get used to it or quit smoking. Your choice.

Willravel

Besides joining TFP, of course.

Fotzlid

oh of course

Willravel

I must say, as someone who has kicked a few habits, I have nothing but the utmost respect for quitters. Getting off addictive substances is a singular test of will. It shows character.

Well done.

Fotzlid

thank you

Mantus

I like to sniff turpentine. I bring a can wherever I go to enjoy the wonderful aroma as I please. People seem to get upset every time I pop the lid but I feel it's my right to sniff what I want and they should learn to enjoy it or learn to shut the hell up.

surferlove007

I completely agree. I resent those students who insists upon smoking right outside the doors and then the wind blows and all that smoke goes into my face and lungs. I hate how smoke smells, period. It's the biggest turn off. At Texas Tech they made it mandatory that you must be 12 feet from any doorway in order to smoke a cigarette. It is to ensure the health of the other students who choose to abstain. I'm so glad the campus has that policy. Personally I wouldn't allow smoking within several hundred yards of the building if I were in charge, but that's just me.

The city of Fort Worth has put a smoking ban in place in all the restaurants except bars. People are no longer allowed to smoke inside the restaurants at any time. My dad is a big advocate of non-smoking bans. He hates smoke and has ended his patronage to several restaurants because they would still tolerate it. Although even though the smoking bans have gone into effect, in the same restaurants that smell is still there which is pretty unappetizing.

Here's another idea, why not just create two campuses...one for smokers and one for non-smokers. Ultimately it would be ideal is they just banned smoking on public university campuses to me.
My body is my temple, I choose not to pollute it with cigarettes. That's my choice.

eribrav

Other cancers associated with lung cancer include tongue and throat, pancreas, and bladder.
About 90% of lung cancers are tobacco related.
Lung cancer kills far and away more people then any other cancer in this country.
It also causes coronary artery disease, which kills even more people than cancer each year.

And I'm curious as to why you get extra breaks during the day to smoke. Do you think you deserve time off to pursue your habits? Consider yourself lucky. If you worked for a hard ass like me, you'd get no special priveleges, and if you got bitchy about it I would fire you. Then you could stay home and smoke all you wanted.

allaboutmusic

As a gigging musician, I couldn't be more pleased about the smoking ban in the UK. I hated breathing in cigarette smoke every night while singing. I didn't have the choice not to breathe it in as long as I wanted to do my job.

HOWEVER, if smokers insist on slowly killing themselves in enclosed public places, I see no problem with allowing pub / club owners to provide them with a separate, adjoining smoking room with a filtered ventilation unit so they don't have to stand out in the rain while they do it.

TotalMILF

In Arizona it's illegal to smoke within thirty feet of any public building. I LOVE it! I could go to restaurants and bars and not walk away smelling like smoke with my eyes watering. I could take my son to a restaurant without having to worry about sitting too close to the smoking section. I only wish the (shithole) state of Michigan would adopt the same policy.

Smoking is a truly disgusting and intrusive habit, and I think it's incredibly disrespectful to light up anywhere near a non-smoker.

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JumpinJesus

I quit smoking about 8 months ago.

While I'm not one of those former smokers like Fotzlid, I do agree that cigarettes have absolutely no redeeming qualities. I mean, hell, even a gun can save a life.

If we want to ban smoking, we need to find ways to show current smokers how much the quality of their life will improve when they quit. It doesn't happen by insulting them and telling them they're obnoxious or smell. The idea that shaming them will somehow get them to quit is a bit odd to me.

So, dd3953, I understand where you're coming from, but trust me, it's so much better to be smoke-free. It's hard, but it's absolutely worth it.

__________________
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Plan9

Smoking is a hobby for people with disposable income.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Fotzlid

Now it is. Back in high school, there was a gas station a couple blocks from the school. 3 packs for $1. That was for name brands too.

World's King

I disregard all signs that say where I can smoke outside. I'm OUTSIDE!!


If you don't wanna be near me. Then don't. Why should I have to change my habit? Why can't you change yours? Oh, that's right... I smoke. So in a non-smokers mind I'm no longer a human. I'd have more rights if I gave a girl an abortion on the front steps.

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Infinite_Loser

If you want to stop people from smoking, all you need to do is attach some unreasonable tax to cigarettes. You'd be surprised just how few people would smoke if they were paying $100+ per pack of cigarettes.

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World's King

Wasn't it Chris Rock that said this about bullets?


Keeps guns the same price but make bullets like $5,000 a piece.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Willravel

You're old enough to remember the 80s, right? Remember ghetto-blasters? Urban-individuals would walk down the street with a boom box on their shoulders going full blast, deafening people around them. You may not remember this, but they were FUCKING ANNOYING. They'd be blasting Run DMC or whatever at decibel levels that are surprising considering the size of the device. Even crossing the street, one's ears would still hurt.

That's what you're doing, only instead of hurting people's ears, you're putting carcinogens in their bloodstream via their lungs. You're human, but you're a human who's imposing his addiction on other people to a clearly negative effect. It's your imposition. You are imposing by lighting up and smoking. If you want to impose on people, then expect hostility. If you don't, YOU cross the street.

Baraka_Guru

I sometimes secretly wish I could knock a fart up into the breeze and at the face of smokers who blow smoke into my path....wishing I could do this at will.

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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shesus

Oh, smoking threads. I love them because they are oh so predictable.

I smoked for about 10 years. I was a semi-fuck you type of smoker. Then I became a more considerate smoker when I got into my mid-20s. Then I had a horrid cough that wouldn't stop and I decided that quitting smoking was the answer for me. That's what I did.

However, it isn't easy and you can't quit if you don't want to. No one should force another person to quit smoking. No one should name call smokers or make them feel like shit. It's a personal choice. However, the first thing I noticed when I quit was the smell of cigarettes. It is one of the most putrid smells, especially in large quantities and/or when stale. You can't smell it when you smoke, I never knew.

I'm not going on about the cancer thing because honestly walking through a cloud of smoke isn't going to kill you unless you have an extreme allergy. However, the smell is what gets me. Even now, if I'm at a bar where people can smoke, I immediately shower and wash my clothes when I get home. I also make sure to wear a coat that is machine washable.

Also, you aren't going to make people quit through taxing it higher. We were paying almost $9 a pack and we were a pack a day smokers. We didn't have a large disposable income, we had a habit that we didn't want to get kick.

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Grasshopper Green

I don't smoke. I think tobacco smoke reeks and extended exposure makes my eyes burn and itch. I can't understand why people would start smoking and then continue the habit...I've smoked a few cigarettes in my life and just don't get it. However, I have a hell of a lot more things to worry about than catching a whiff of smoke when entering a building. Here in Salt Lake, the air quality is such that simply breathing is equivalent to smoking five cigarettes a day (according to a recent study). I'd much rather get my knickers in a twist over exhaust spewing gas guzzlers than someone smoking a cigarette outside.

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Formerly Medusa

Willravel

Can't it be both? I try to fight pollution, be it from an Expedition or a Kool.

xepherys

Hmmm, interestingly self-righteous even from a guy who calls himself king :-p

Honestly, you are the person committing the disruptive action. Therefore the ball is in your court to make the change. How do I figure the above? How is it that the smoker is the disruptor and not the inhalee? Let's look at science. In science there is a principle (if someone can name it, awesome, I have long since forgotten) that states a natural stance or situation is one that is fallen into by default, i.e.- not smoking. As a human, we have no base level instinct to smoke. We are not born with cigarettes growing from our fingers. Smoking is dangerous to our health rather than beneficial. Therefore the non-smoker must not be the disruptor, as they are following the natural course in that aspect while the smoker is going out of his/her way to do something unnatural and disruptive.

Basically, to sum it all up, you smoke in your house? Awesome! You smoke within 100' of me? Fuck off! And yes, non-smokers SHOULD have that right. People have other similar basic right against having their space violated. Why should smoking be any different? Why should it be any different than a noise control ordinance? If you aren't allowed to play loud music on the street, which actually DOESN'T hurt anybody (unless you have a really amazing fucking system), why should you be allowed to smoke... something that DOES hurt people (and the environment, though that's less my concern)?

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allaboutmusic

I don't think less of smokers, if you want to smoke, go ahead. Humans shit too... I just prefer if they shit where I don't have to inhale the fumes.

World's King

So they aren't allowed to shit in any bathroom that you use?


That's pretty selfish.

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shakran

I don't care where you smoke outside as long as it isn't directly in front of the entrance to the public building that people are trying to get in to. Why should I have to smell like an ash tray because you decided at some point that sticking burning leaves in your mouth was a good idea?

You have rights until your rights infringe on the rights of others. I have the right not to suffer the consequences of your choices.

This is why I am for outlawing cigarettes in public, and against outlawing snuff/chewing tobacco/heroin altogether. You shoot up or chew, you're hurting only yourself. You wanna hurt yourself, without hurting others, have at it. Go to town. You light up, you're hurting everyone near you - people who did not get to take part in the decision of whether or not to inhale drugs and carcinogens.

allaboutmusic

Nah, the bathroom is fine. That's where they are meant to shit. The bathroom has appropriate facilities to get rid of the shit (via flushing).

Hence my post above saying that a smoking room with extractor / filter fans is the best solution for everyone. Non-smokers are happy because they don't have to inhale the smoke, and smokers are happy because they don't have to smoke outside. I'm sure you'd agree this is a fair solution, wouldn't you?

dd3953

That's not a problem. I can understand that, that's why I respect the rules and stand 25 ft away from any doors. However, I should be able to smoke a cigarette without getting wet, rained on or attacked by the wind. If I can respect non-smokers enough to rule their rules, why can't respect me enough to at least put put a shelter?

I don't know how many people agree with me. Thats one of the reasons I started this thread. I was kinda hoping to find some. But as you said, you voted against the smoking band as well, it doesn't seem to be doing much. Here, where you live, or where most of my family live. And most of my family are smokers too, and they voted against it as well.

Most of my friends here in NY are non-smokers. I have lived here for about 3 years. Even the one year I lived in DC I was around non-smokers. And I have never once heard of smoke allergy. Is this just doctors bending to the media? I tried looking up stats on it, but couldn't seem to find any. If you know where I can find some that would get. I want to know when people started get diagnosed with it.

And no, being in the room with a drinker is not going to slowly kill me (and either is being in the room with a smoker) - but that drinker is going to kill me quickly and painfully as they drive home.

And that is my main point. If I am outside, where the air is as fresh as it's gonna get, and I'm not blocking a doorway, why should I have to move?

Self-righteous is not the word for it. Anyway, There isn't a single redeeming point to beer either, but you read about what happened when they tried to ban that.

YES I DO. It would I could smoke without getting wet or snowed on.

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[Technically, I'm not possible, I'm made of exceptions. ]

Grasshopper Green

There is nothing wrong with fighting pollution. I just think that exhaust probably contributes more to our inversions than cigarette smoking.

http://saltlakecity.about.com/cs/wea.../inversion.htm

__________________
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Formerly Medusa

PonyPotato

It's not really any different from other allergies. I am allergic to something in the smoke, it causes a reaction. I'm also allergic to something in my mother's laundry detergent (or fabric softener, not sure which one), some coatings on paper, inhaling certain lawn chemicals, and most tanning lotions. Are those specific allergies going to be studied statistically? No, because allergies manifest differently in different people. You don't need to be sarcastic; when I've spoken to my doctor about various reactions, all I get as an explanation is, "you're probably allergic to something in it." Without visiting an allergist for really thorough testing, I can't tell you which specific ingredient causes my reaction, but I can definitely tell you that cigarette smoke is the primary cause. I get the same reaction in the car with my dad smoking, in my sister's car period, at shows where smoking is allowed, and sometimes walking to class if I'm stuck on a sidewalk behind a smoker. The only constant? The cigarette smoke.

__________________
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— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

Willravel

Smoking causes more cancer and more asthma.

Fotzlid

I'd be fine with that on one condition.
Costs are passed onto the consumer. Since adding this extra room and all that equiptment is going to cost a lot of money, you smokers can pay the higher prices for meals/beer/whatever to pay for it. I'm not paying for it.

allaboutmusic

I think most business would be happy to absorb that cost - it's largely a one-time cost, and the extra business they'd get from smokers would compensate.

Hain

For me it isn't so much of an allergy, but if I have been working hard all day on something, just at the point of migraine, cigarette smoke will instantly set one off for me. Not something I particularly blame cigarette smokers for. Usually means I've neglected how stressful I was.



I can't see how this supports your argument.



But if you have really bad asthma, a good cigarette is sometimes more helpful than a nebulizer.



Personally, give you guys a room to smoke in if the owner feels like it. The problem with that is if a server does not want to come in contact with the smoke, he has a chance of loosing his job. If this happens, there will be "discrimination" against people those unwilling or unable to work in smoke. So what do you do? I have no strong opinions against smoking, and therefore I have though of no good solutions.

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allaboutmusic

My solution of a smoking room isn't a "smoking area" where smokers are served separately. It's simply a room where they can go to have their cigarette before returning to the main area of the establishment, as an alternative to going outside. I've seen this concept at airports and it works well.

Fotzlid

Business' don't absorb the cost of anything. It all gets passed onto the consumer.