Anxst

Heya folks. Well, due to some allergy issues I had to make the girls get rid of our cats. In return, we agreed to get some fish, and I'm hoping for some assistance.

We could only afford a 10 gallon tank right now. Small, I know, but we'll upgrade eventually if they dig taking care of them. We set it up tonight, and I know enough about setting them up (a highschool friend bred angelfish) that we're going to test water ph and other levels for a day or two while everything runs before we add any fish.

The issue is what fish to get. The girls really want an Oranda, but they want more than one fish ("He'll be lonely!" they cry). As far as I'm aware, fancy goldfish take up an asston of space, and tend to put out a lot of waste. I also wanted to get a small apple/mystery snail for the tank to help keep it clean. If we get a small Oranda to start with, can we fit anything else in the tank until we can afford a larger one in perhaps 9 months to one year? If so, what gets along well with fancy goldfish besides other fancy goldfish?

Thanks in advance for the help!

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surferlove007

man...wait till JS responds to this. He'll give you way ton of info.

inBOIL

Fancy goldfish don't grow terribly fast, so keeping two small ones in a 10 gal. for a year or so shouldn't be a problem, as long as you keep up with regular water changes. As far as other tankmates, fast-swimming goldfish (e.g. comets, feeders) aren't a good choice, and I'm unaware of any other small coldwater fish.

edit: A small shoal of white cloud minnows might be appropriate, but get a second opinion on that.

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Anxst

I knew to stay away from the fast moving goldfish as tankmates, for the same reason you keep Koi away from fancy goldfish in pond setups. The little bastards will eat everything and the fancies will starve .

It's sounding like the only real thing you can keep with goldfish, no matter the tank size, is other goldfish. I'll wait and see what other folks have to say on the issue as well. Thanks for the thoughts, inBoil!

And Ghoastgirl, I'd love any advice JStrider can provide.

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loganmule

My wife is a fish person, and here's what she has to say on this:

First of all it's so man...he did't want anyone to think I was him so he gave me an introduction.
I dont raise goldfish, but I have had small tanks. They are so much more work. Before you introduce your fancy goldfish, add bacteria to the tank and let it circulate for two weeks. The kids will torture you to death, but Goldfish put out a LOT of waste, ie:amonia which is toxic to fish. Setting up a good bacterial count will help break down the amonia. You will have to do frequent water changes at first. Even though goldfish are relatively inexpensive, get some water test strips. They include instruction which help you understand water chemistry. I couldn't wait to get those fish in there when I started a community tank and was devastated when they died. If you add a second fish you'll have to do more frequent water changes. At least wait several months before adding another until your water is stable. I am assuming you are using filtration?

Anxst

Thanks for the advice!

We're using an outside tank powered filter, and I've already introduced the bacteria to the tank. However, from what I know, a fishless tank won't actually build much of a bacteria count. They have nothing to live on, after all. I know goldfish are messy, and I have already gone over how we have to do 15% water changes once a week until the water stabilizes. I do have test strips as well, and dechlorinator was used on the tank, and I have some set aside for water replacements.

It's so weird. I know a ton about how to set up tanks from helping my friend with his angelfish, and not a damn thing about the fish that go in them.

After talking to the girls about this, they're now contemplating getting a heater and going with some small tropicals to start with. They haven't made up their minds yet. If I do get them to go this route, and suggestions? I've heard livebreeders are hardy, but don't especially want 12 billion guppies in my tank.

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Fotzlid

i currently have an assortment of small tetras in my 10. they are quite active and dont muck the water too easily.
i have had good luck with different types of gourami's too, but they are in a bigger tank.
never had much luck with mollies or plattys.

inBOIL

Danios are hardy tropicals that will tolerate just about any water chemistry; they also tend to survive the cycling period if the bacteria you've introduced don't do away with that entirely (I've never used the bacteria packets, so I can't speak to their effectiveness.) There are several types of danios (pearl, zebra, longfin) so your kids may like one of those. Stay away from giant danios, though; they need a larger aquarium.

If you want other types of tropicals, first find out what your local water chemistry is like, specifically hardness and pH. It's easier to choose fish that prefer your water chemistry than try to adjust the chemistry for your fish. If your water is hard and basic, livebearers (mollies, platys, swordtails) are a good choice for beginners. Soft, acidic water is good for tetras and rasboras. I'd stay away from neon, cardinal, and rummynose tetras at first, as they tend to be more delicate, but most of the others are ok for beginners. If your pH is more neutral, barbs may be a good choice.
If you get different species, make sure to pay attention to temperament. Buy a few fish books at your pet shop so you can learn about the different types of fish and their requirements and compatibilities. This is a good way for your girls to learn about fishkeeping (while keeping them interested with pretty pictures) and may get them interested in subjects like biology and chemistry.

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elaphe

Ansxt,

First, don't sweat the little details like water chemistry. You are on bang on testing for ammonia - that's the killer. Nitrogenous waste kill more fish in aquariums than disease, in my opinion. Get a good ammonia and nitrite test kit - preferably not the dry test-strip type. The tests stripes can become contaminated with compounds in the air and may loose accuracy over time. Secondly, liquid test kits are more cost effective - more tests for the buck. That said, any reading above zero for nitrogenous wastes is bad. SeaChem has an ammonia warning "card" that sits in the tank and constantly "tests" for ammonia. I have used the product and used other test kits to verify that it can "read" the ammonia levels in the aquarium in real-time.

You are also correct in assuming that without fish waste, one has difficulty in creating a live bacterial filter. Testing for ammonia and nitrite becomes important.

Don't get too carried away with testing for other water chemistry parameters. I have been in the aquarium business for over a decade and can tell you that most other test kits are the "up sell" items. The average freshwater aquarist doesn't need a pH, GH or KH test kit. Not to mention the Mg, Iron and Ca kits. Nitrate kits are not needed if you perform frequent, regular small water changes. More on water chemistry later.

Most people stay away from goldfish thinking that the fish just create tons of waste. Give the goldfish a chance. You were thinking of two fish in a ten gallon tank - perfect! Just remember that MANY sales people will quote the golden rule "one inch of fish per gallon of water." Not a bad rule considering that most fish are streamlined and torpedo-shaped ie. THIN! Goldfish have been domesticated for almost a thousand years and don't resemble the parent stock. The fish have been selected to look "squished" from head to toe. As such, they are bulkier fish compared to other "thinner" fish of the same length. Hence, they eat more and "poop" more when compared to their svelte cousins. You are right when thinking that goldfish are best kept with other goldfish. But given the diversity of the different breeds, you can create a very diverse group of goldfish in a single tank. Suitable "cleaners": freshwater clams. Try to stay away from the large snails - apple snails are voracious vegetarians that starve inadvertently in most tanks. The snails will require vegetables like zucchini and lettuce in order to survive, which just creates one more thing to keep clean. If you must, purchase some veggi-clips (clips with suction cups). Suckermouth catfish can potentially harm your goldfish.

As for water chemistry, most aquarium stores do NOT change the water chemistry coming out of the tap and into the freshwater tanks other than to neutralize the chlorine. Why? Cost to do so would prohibitively add to the overhead and to retail costs. Most freshwater fish are farmed and are not raised at ideal (ie. wild) water conditions. Good chance that the water chemistry coming from your taps will be fine for the new arrivals. The fish themselves will change the chemistry over time with their metabolic processes so keep on top of it with frequent regular small water changes. My favorite, 20% every week. In a ten gallon tank, that's only two gallons of water. This will ensure that the chemistry does not change significantly over time with the removal of old and new addition of the "source" water. This is above and beyond just "topping up" evaporated water.

And don't forget to keep the gravel clean. Most people forget that the primary function of any filter is to trap waste. The gravel bed will passively trap particulate matter. And I am NOT referring to an undergravel filter. Gravel by itself will trap any particulate that settles onto it. Keep that filter clean!

Wow, I wrote a lot. Hope it helps to answer more questions than to create them.

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biznatch

Depending on where you live(ie, population), it's a good idea to look on Craigslist to find fishtanks. Often, you can find free ones that people don't need anymore, and sometimes they have filters and all kinds of fishtank equipment.

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