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Old 06-30-2007, 10:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Location: British Columbia, Canada
Aquarium Advice

For years I have been involved in the Pet Industry specializing in aquariums - if it was wet, I did it. (That didn't come out right )

I have moved on to a new career but the old hobby refuses to let go. So one way to feed the habit is for me to give out advice.

I will field any question to the best of my abilities. All you have to is ask.

elaphe
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:26 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton
What a great offer, and thank you. Grancey and I used to be heavily involved in saltwater tanks, but we stopped about 15 years ago. So all I have are memories....

But I do have a question to see if you've ever heard of a type of fish we had. There was a terrific guy who owned a fish store near us who guided us into making the magnificent switch from fresh to saltwater. One day we were browsing his tanks and Grancey found a particular juvenile angel that she fell in love with and I asked him to tell us about it. He just grinned ear to ear and said, "Ah, she has EXCELLENT taste."

As it turns out, it was a juvenile Arabian Asfur Angel. According to him, there were only five of them privately owned in the United States at that time, and Michael Jackson had two of them. Our guy had acquired them by accident as one of his suppliers who regularly dives the Red Sea had mislabeled two juveniles and sent them to him. The fish store guy obviously kept one of them and he put the other one up for sale (which we bought immediately). I think we paid $189 for it, but he told us that a fully mature one would be worth at least $1000 and this was back in the late 80's.

That fish was the absolute showpiece of our main tank. Gorgeous, gorgeous fish, and we really enjoyed watching him change colors as he matured. I remember once I asked my older brother to feed my fish while we were out of tonw and he flatly refused, saying there was no way he was going to be responsible for a $5000 fish.

Have you ever heard of one or seen one? If we can get to the boxes that have the old photos, I'll scan one so you can see our little guy. Grancey named him "Aubrey," by the way. He was Auburey Arabian Asfur Angel.
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Asfurs, beautiful fish BTW, in the past 2 years have fetched ~$200-300CDN at LFSs. Exports from the Red has has been greatly reduced this year, those prices will jump up, how much...I can't say.

Then again, collecting, handling and shipping methods have vastly improved as well as a better understanding of aquarium husbandry and better equipment has made the marine hobby "easier" to keep these magnificent creatures THRIVING, not just surviving in captivity. Success of individual hobbiests along w/getting these creatures here in a reasonable amount of time has, in a sense, has broken the "exclusivity" of keeping marine life in this market.

Never the less, IMHO, a thriving "wild" animal is priceless. Unfortunately over 95% of all marine life sold is caught/collected from the ocean. Aquacultured/"fragged" coral makes up more of the difference as the reproduction cycle of most fish and non-coral inverts are more complicated.

Elaphe...funny we are communicating indirectly here and not directly via e-mail/calling. How's the fam? Kooky as usual here....LMAO!
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I couldn't have said it better.
actinic, as usual, you stole my thunder when it comes to aquariums!
I'm assuming that you too will be contributing to this thread as needed?

warrreagl, was the Asfur a royal blue fish with a yellow tail and yellow crescent on the side? Did you have Auburey long enough to see the juv colour change to the adult? No matter what, having success with any large angel in captivity deserves a pat on the back.


actinic
As for the fam, all are well. Sis is moving to lower mainland soon.
As for email/call, you too have a phone!
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm wanting to make a "pond in a barrel" in a few months. I was thinking about having a couple goldfish or a koi. after looking into it some it looks like the barrel would be too small for a koi, but alright for a few goldfish.

any other fish recomendations?
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Single tail goldfish (comets, sarassa, fedders, etc) can grow to a length of ~10in. "Fantail" varieties are better suited for a small base area water feature. Since one will be viewing them from the top, take the time in selecting fish from looking from above for interesting patterns as one does w/choosing koi.

If you have animals that will "fish" them out of the barrel at night, you can get one of those motion activated water sprayers to scare them off.

JM2C.
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Old 07-03-2007, 06:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I have a question regarding a blue male Beta I had a couple of years ago. I'm just wondering because the cause of death was unexplainable. Basically, about 2-3 days before it died, the beta would go nuts in its tank. It would race around, up down as if frightened of something or in frenzy. Then after a few days I found it belly side up. I fed it some special Beta food and changed the water weekly (leaving some of the previous water for adjustment). Any idea what might have happened? It lived for about 6 and a half months, way shorter than the 2-3 years life span I was given at the fish store.
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Old 07-03-2007, 07:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton
Quote:
Originally Posted by elaphe
warrreagl, was the Asfur a royal blue fish with a yellow tail and yellow crescent on the side? Did you have Auburey long enough to see the juv colour change to the adult? No matter what, having success with any large angel in captivity deserves a pat on the back.
Yes, we had Aubrey 4 years and long enough to watch him fully mature. He was absolutely spectacular. He unfortunately died when our local municipality increased the amount of chlorine in the tap water by tenfold in an unannounced effort to rid itself of a bovine feces bacterial problem. By the time I noticed the spike it was too late to make adjustments. I even took his body to our local university fisheries department for toxicology and they confirmed it.

Our other showpiece was a gigormous batfish (named Leo, of course, after The Groove Tube) whose bottom fin eventually dragged the bottom while his top fin broke the surface (55-gal tank). He got so big we had to donate him to a nearby hospital for their tanks.

Grancey and I had an unrealized talent at saltwater tanks and we were gifted at what we did, but I've never had the drive to get back into it again. Losing Aubrey and Leo pretty much did us in, I think. Plus the main fish guy who got us started on it closed his shop to become a full-time fireman and we didn't trust anybody else locally.
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Old 07-03-2007, 01:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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War: Sorry to hear about the terrible cause of the loss of Aubrey. Batfish are one of my fav fish...then again...there isn't many that I don't like with exception of most African cichlids.

Having a trustworthy and honest contact in the marine hobby is important, especially today, with the amount of poor quality equipment on the shelves. It's become a buyer beware market, unfortunately. This hobby is expensive enough w/o having to buy a piece of equipment a few times over due to failure.

Logan: When a fish starts darting around like that, there is definitely some sort of reaction to some sort of toxin, usually nitrite as fish can be photosensitive. Was there a filter in the set-up or was it in a "stagnant" set-up? My last SFF lived 5 years in a 5 gal, no filter but had lots of plants. I've never done any water changes as everything tested spot on and I just topped up w/distilled water and added some fertilizer.
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actinic
Logan: When a fish starts darting around like that, there is definitely some sort of reaction to some sort of toxin, usually nitrite as fish can be photosensitive. Was there a filter in the set-up or was it in a "stagnant" set-up? My last SFF lived 5 years in a 5 gal, no filter but had lots of plants. I've never done any water changes as everything tested spot on and I just topped up w/distilled water and added some fertilizer.
It was a small (gallon max) plastic tank with vent holes in the lid. Tap water, no plants. Changed weekly with approximately 1/3 of the water remaining from the previous change.
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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warrreagl,
Quote:
originally posted by actinic
Having a trustworthy and honest contact in the marine hobby is important, especially today, with the amount of poor quality equipment on the shelves. It's become a buyer beware market, unfortunately. This hobby is expensive enough w/o having to buy a piece of equipment a few times over due to failure.
I would add to actinic by saying that having people you trust in the pet stores is vital not only for them to steer you in the right direction in terms of equipment, but also for the right advice on keeping our little guys healthy and happy. I can't count how many times I have heard people tell me "but the guy in the other store told me they wouldn't eat each other". The marine hobby is a "knowledge is power" type hobby. Not only does the salesman have to know the equipment and point you in the right direction, that person should know where the fish are caught (most marine animals are wild caught), what it would eat in the wild, what it is eating right now (if it is eating!) and how long the store has had it in captivity. It is definitely a buyer beware hobby. Even if you do find that one person that you trust, don't let it stop you from doing the research yourself and ask questions. The dumbest question is the one you don't ask!
It sucks to loose a pet that you watch grow up. I had a golden puffer named "Spud" that I (reluctantly!) sold to a very nice family who spared no expense to make sure he had a great home to swim in. Unfortunately, they didn't realize that painting the walls in the same room would have dire effects. Paint fumes were absorbed by the water and Spud died of internal organ failure.

JStrider,

Quote:
originally posted by actinic
Single tail goldfish (comets, sarassa, fedders, etc) can grow to a length of ~10in. "Fantail" varieties are better suited for a small base area water feature. Since one will be viewing them from the top, take the time in selecting fish from looking from above for interesting patterns as one does w/choosing koi.
Not that I would ever disagree with good friend actinic , I must add that adding sarassa comets is the "safe" bet. Because of the size of most barrel ponds, the the number of goldfish you can safely keep would be limited. Not that having 3-4 goldfish wouldn't be a bad idea. I would personally be a little bit more daring and think along the idea of having large livebearers like sailfin mollies or even medium-sized gourami species like kissing fish or moonlight gouramis. This would give you a variety of species that could co-exist and you can create a pond that most wouldn't even think about having. Plant up the barrel with irrises and reed plants like dwarf papyris or dwarf cyperus. Dwarf water lettuce would be an ideal floating plant. Check out the local gardening centers for the specialized pots used for ponds and the specialized bedding material. I'm sure that actinic would have some thoughts as to other plant species and have better insight as to planting them - right actinic? Just remember that water flow and filtration is key regardless of what species of fish you want to keep. This sometimes becomes challenging in a barrel!

LoganSnake,

I agree with actinic. It could have been a toxic shock of some kind.

Whenever I am confronted with a mystery, I try to find answers to the following questions:

Was there any changes in the feeding/husbandry habits in the two weeks just prior to the unexplained fish loss?

Was the care of the fish shared by yourself and another? Did they do something different?

Was there a change of the brand of food? Like most pets, they only eat what they like. The rest just sits in the aquarium and rots.

Do you use a tap water conditioner (if you use a municipal water source)? Bottled water?

Was there a water change done just prior to the "darting" behaviour?

For better or worse, 6 months is not bad for owning a betta. Yes, the average life of a betta could be a year with 2 to 5 years not being uncommon. Just like us, the better the food, shelter and living environment will help will longer life. Unfortunately, some of use die young for a variety of reasons. Fish too are not immune to chance/genetics/disease.

For long term success, having a larger volume of water will definitely benefit the health of the fish - regardless of species. It will help with a slower build-up of the concentration of toxins and help to stabilize water chemistry over a longer period of time.

If you want the chemistry, you have to ask actinic - he's the biochemist in the pairing!
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Last edited by elaphe; 07-04-2007 at 08:03 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 07-05-2007, 08:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Great topic!

I used to have a nice 40 gallon freshwater community tank, we even had some successful breeding of swordtails, it was cool. But due to the expense of moving it, we decided to sell it cheap and start over after moving. Well, we have moved and after seeing this topic, I'm itching to get a tank setup again.

Before diving headlong into what I did before, I want to know about tank shapes and wether or not the shape of the tank will adversly affect the health of the fish. I have heard that tanks that are taller than they are wide (hex tanks, corner tanks) are not good, and Mrs. Coaster liked the look of a corner tank we saw in a store. If I do this again, she wants a certian finished "furniture" look, not some slapshot plain tank on an open stand.

The other problem I had was keeping plants alive. I'd buy healthy looking plants, with the little pots, and none of them ever thrived. They all would just slowly detereriate and eventually die. I'd buy new ones, same result. I eventually gave up and bought a bunch of plastic ones. What are the tricks of the trade here?

Thanks!
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Old 07-05-2007, 09:06 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Mister Coaster,

Where to start. Tanks. When I started in this hobby, tanks only came as rectangular boxes. A lot of that had to do with the materials being used in the construction. Now, walk into any store that specializes in aquariums and you will see aquariums in a variety of shapes and sizes. What's right for you?

You need a tank that will fit into a corner and you want to dabble with the natural plants. The three most important elements for plant growth are water, light and nutrients. All of these are growth limiting factors. Water - I think we have that covered. That leaves light and nutrients. In general, you want to have a minimum of 2 watts of fluorescent light per gallon of water. This is assuming that you don't select a tank that is taller than it is wide. Just like with terrestrial gardens, not all plants have the same needs. Think about your lawn. You can get grass for the shade, grass for high light areas, grass that needs very little maintenance etc. Same goes for the aquatic plants. Plan ahead, look at the requirements needed for the species that you select and get the appropriate lighting. Personally, I would shoot for 3-4 watts per gallon.

Next is the light fixture. Standard fluorescent bulbs come in 2, 3, and 4 ft lengths. All other lengths are a combination of these bulbs. The fixtures themselves tend to have reflectors that work best over rectangular shapes. Round bulbs have reflectors that throw light in a circular pattern, long bulbs in a rectangular pattern. Corner tanks present a challenge to lighting because you want to maximize coverage in a tank that is not a rectangle but economy would dictate fluorescent lighting (because money talks!) And design esthetics also counts. You want a tank that is sharp looking, not something that has been cobbled together! There are a ton of lighting options and I'm sure that actnic will have his preference - I know him too well not to thrown in on this .

Tank shape and design. Don't get a hex tank. They are too tall and ugly. You see silicone joints every 8-10 inches of viewing space. My preference is the Corner bow tank. It is a wedge-shaped tank with a curved front (think pie shape wedge). It has enough space on top for a variety of lighting options and most manufactures have finished cabinetry for these tank by virtue of their shape.

And don't forget filtration. I would go for a canister filter that sits below your tank. I prefer Ehiem filters. A hang on will take up space behind your tank and the tank will not fit in the corner very well.

Nutients I will leave for actinic.

There is a ton more, but this should get you going.
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Old 07-09-2007, 03:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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thanks for the advise. Sounds like a corner tank is the way to go. Also sounds like my previous tank was underlit, thus causing my plant troubles.

I'm currently looking for a used corner tank that won't break the bank. They are somewhat hard to come by. There are really nice ones at the stores, but at big bucks.
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Mister Coaster,

Try Craigslist

http://denver.craigslist.org/pet/

You can find tons of deals from this site. Just remember to find out how old the aquarium is , was it ever stored dry and for how long, and if you can, a picture of the aquarium when it was set up. Silicone gets brittle over time and this process is sped up when the aquarium had been stored dry for over a year. Getting a pi of how the tank looked like set up will (hopefully) give you an idea if the tank was level. A long tank that is out 1/8" at one side can be out up to 1/2" on the other. This puts a lot of strain on the glass and silicone seals. Check the cabinet for water damage - warped wood or damaged finishes will indicate a leaky tank and finally, fill the tank with water on a dry, level surface. A leak will show up pretty fast. Don't get a used tank that had reptiles in it! It could have been specifically designed as a terrarium (thinner glass and silicone) or the critters themselves have damaged the silicone. Finally, most of the cost in a new aquarium is is the cabinet and the equipment. Aquariums themselves are relatively inexpensive when compared to the cabinet, lighting, filtration and decorations. Getting the equipment used and buying a brand new tank may save you costly water damage fixes!

Other spots to check for used equipment - local aquarium societies, mom & pop pet shops, aquarium forums on the internet.

Good hunting!
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I've been on craigslist a lot, but haven't found waht I want, and I'm willing to wait a little bit for a good deal. Thanks for letting me know what to look for when buying used.

I hear ya about the equipment, my previous tank was a 40g acrylic with a black back, got the tank itself for $10, but spent nearly 300 to get her up and running! There's no such sthig as a cheap tank.
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Old 07-10-2007, 03:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Jstrider: not to disagree w/elaphe’s alternative fish choice but looking from the top, the colors and patterns are very subtle, unless you get varieties where the colors stand out. Sailfin mollies are nice but you don’t get to see the sailfin and the display the males perform looking from above.

Sarassas will be fine, provided that the barrel is cut in half lengthwise to give more lateral swimming space. To keep it from rolling, make a pair of “X” frames and have it look like a trough. To give extra dimension, attach rectangular baskets/planters around the perimeter or just the side and back. If you are feeling extra creative, mount them ~2” above the edge of the barrel, plumb them together and use a pump to feed the planters where it will act as a wetland to help keep the water clean. You will have to “McGuyver” a supporting system for the planters, as it’ll be quite heavy w/water. Use Shultz Profile as a substrate as it won’t foul the water like soil.

It’s a fair bit more work to do but if done right, it will not only help keep the water clear but it will look stunning . If you decide to go this route, I can draw up a schematic for the planters.

I prefer water hyacinths over water lettuce as the former has a purple bloom where the latter doesn’t bloom at all. Both are fine together to give differences in “visual” texture.

Mister Coaster: corner aquariums pose one of the biggest challenges for lighting. If you are a DIY-er, T5HO lighting system is they way to go. Just make sure to use the individual reflectors as that’s their biggest advantage over other fluorescent lighting systems. One can use a metal halide pendant but then you are limited to one particular color temperature of bulb. With T5HO, you can use different bulbs to get the color you like and you don’t get nearly as much heat created from the bulbs.

Nutrient supplementation, I can go on but to prevent boring anyone to tears, it’s best dealt on a case-by-case situation…LOL!

Elaphe…miss you lots my old friend. Let me know when you are coming to TO and we’ll feast at Tokyo Hell. Koko is on a non-stop “Hey Dumbass” kick…LMFAO.
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Koko is on a non-stop “Hey Dumbass” kick…LMFAO.
This could be another thread here - how to stop your pet parrot from swearing!
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:30 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm sure it's of no help to anyone due to the prices, but holy crap check out these custom tanks!

http://www.reefsystemsinc.com/gallery2.htm
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I enjoyed reading about all your babies!!!

I had a 50 gallon tank that I bought in 1990 an filled with cheap neon tetras and a 2 dollar kissing fish and a few others that honestly I cant remember right now..within two weeks even with due diligence on their care and upkeep all but the kissing fish was dead.

We honestly expected the angel it to die too....so we never named him (I dont KNOW he was male, he just always "seemed" male to me). When he died 8 years later, we still called him Fish. At the time of his death he was 5 inches long, 4 inches tall and about 1/2 inch thick.

He was truly amazing...I never imagined a fish could have attitude but Fish did. When he'd get mad at me he would turn his tail to me and kind of peer over his fishy shoulder every once and awhile hehehe. He was an attention whore in the 1st degree, he knew how to get my attention...he would psych me out by laying flat on the bottom of the tank until I would come over to see him. When he was happy he would dance in the tank and wiggle like no fish ever wiggled before. He survived 3 moves and I was convinced he'd out live my cats lol, it was truly a sad day when we lost him....so sad I sold my tank and havent had another fish since.

I know he wasnt "exotic" like some of y'alls but 9 years later he is still thought about just about every day.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
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ShaniFaye,

I have seen kids cry because their 25 cent plain-Jane goldfish had jumped out of the bowl. I never thought I would get too emotionally attached to a cold, wet, slimy animal but it is amazing how much personality a fish can have. Maybe I am anthropomorphizing just a little bit, but these fish do know the difference between the hand that feeds and the hand that teases. And you don't have to spend a ton to get enjoyment out of owning an aquarium. That's the beauty of the hobby. It is easily scaled to an individual's experience, interest and economy.

As for your Fish, it doesn't surprise me that "he" had personality. Just like with keeping any pet animal, the pet often reflects the care its given. A happy pet plays. A sad, unloved pet does ... you get the picture.

Thanks for sharing!

elaphe
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:14 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Good news! We painted the interrior of the house and Mrs. Coaster rearranged some furnature yesterday. NOW we have the perfect wall for a regular rectangular tank around 40-60 gallon. That will be MUCH easier to find than a corner tank, cheaper anyway.

I like the look of those bowfront ones, If there are good looking cabinets and hoods for those, then that's what I'll be getting. elaphe, do you know if stands and hoods come in a dark/cherrywood stain? Thats the color of our wood, and I haven't seen any out there. I see black, white, light wood and stainless steel. Would I be able fo find an unstained or unpainted one that I could stain to match?
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:32 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Mr.Coaster: The bowfront canopy and cabinet only come in the colors that you have mentioned. You'll have to get a cabinet maker to build a set for you to match your woodwork.

Alternatively, if you get the standard rectangular aquariums, the AllGlass Mission series make a cherry finish set. It's on the upper price point range but it's well made and uber easy access openings.

Here's a 90gal reef I set-up a few months ago to give you an idea of the AGA Mission set:

Whole shot:



Cabinet opening: The sump has more work done that includes a refugium and open plenum in the centre section.



The Canopy opens all the way across the front and hinged ~6" back of the front for easy access. I'll take a pic next week of the canopy when I'm there next.

HTH
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:58 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Hey, that looks fantastic! A bit larger than I was looking for, if there is a ~55g version of that, I think that's going to be the winner. I'll trade the bowfront for the matching darker wood.
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:18 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Just popped in briefly...I keep forgetting stuff :P. Looking at my supplier list, unfortunately they don't come in 36". Only 48" and 72" lengths and widths of 18" and 24".

Alternatively, if you are a DIY-er, you can use the steel tubular stands and skin it w/a wood shell. I'll find some pics tonight.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:18 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I can't seem to find the pics online but this is basically how one "skins" a tubular metal stand:

You will have to make panels that will cover the sides. On the side panels, you will have to secure a 2x4 so that when the side panel is on, it's on the top of the bottom rail and below the top rail. The ends of the 2x4 within the stand will act as another point to secure the front panel.

This is just a guideline and you can skin the stand in however manner to keep the panels on.

HTH
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:24 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I'm still interested, but have been out of town since the 18th, and will be back in Denver on the 25th. So that's why I haven't checked in for a few.
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Old 07-29-2007, 11:43 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Location: Toronto, ON
Just remembered, you can buy strong rare earth magnets and recess them into the panels, secured w/a strong glue. Makes for easy removal when needed.
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