drugs
 

hello people, i am kinda new here and am thinking of experimenting with different drugs, i've only ever tried weed before but have quit it for about 8 months now. i am thinking it is now time for some speed, ketamine (sp?), shrooms, and perhaps coke...

i don't know much about these drugs except speed, and was wondering if any of you people had and experience with them or knew of anyone who did. so basically, if anyone has the knowledge and the time, i would apprectiate it if someone could post about what the high was like, comeing down, and any side effects... i'm particuarlily interested in the side effects and what happens when you come down...

also any other recommendations for useage would be appreciated.

They can kill you or seriously fuck you up (and not in a good way). I recommend that you stay away from them.

hi, thanks for the reply...

i know that a lot of people share the same opinion that you do, and i used to as well, however, this is something that i want to do as an experiment, not to get on to for the rest of my life... i know that this is how addiction starts and that many people will not agree with what i am doing, this will not stop me.

i posted on this board to get as much information as possible on the subject before i do it, so that my experience can be safe and hopefully enjoyable.

OK, as an experiment. So you try a little of this, and then a little of that, and oh yeah, maybe some of that stuff over there. Then you realize, gee, I kinda liked that one, maybe just a wee bit more. Before you know it, guess what? You seem to need more and more to get you off and then even more to get you through the day. Yeah, yeah, I know, that won't happen to me, but you know what? It so easily can. Please take spectre's advice, and my advice, and don't start. Think about it alright.

IF you chose to do any drugs, which is completely your decission, please at least be an informed drug user!!!!

essentially you're wasting your money (u use what u buy, like food) so buy better stuff (just cause it costs more doesnt mean it is). just be informed AND MAKE YOUR OWN DECISSION! check out the link too

check out www.erowid.org it's very informative about anything u need.

Well, everybody on the board can tell you "don't do this, don't do that", and it is good advice, but it won't stop you. If you're gonna do anything, first of all DON'T TRIP ALONE, you'll need someone who can show you what a normal dose of whatever you're doing is, and I'd recommend cutting that in half for a first timer. They can also help keep your mind focused if things start to go wrong.

As far as the drugs you've mentioned, I'd start with shrooms, since they're the least harmful. They taste nasty, so stuff no more than one gram in a peanut butter sandwich, and just eat it. You can also grind them up and brew tea, but you'll need honey or something sweet to cover up the godawful taste.
Within 20 mins - 1/2 hour, you'll start feeling the effects, they vary from person to person, but you'll probably get giggly, you might hallucinate, if you're nervous, it might turn into paranoia, which is why you should have friends around and be someplace safe. Expect to be under the influence for at least 5 or 6 hours, it might feel like less, or more, but the key to enjoying yourself is to keep relaxed, take a few deep breaths if you need to, get some fresh air.

Now, Ketamine, being a depressant is completely different, you shouldn't do more than 0.1g (about 1/4 to 1/5 of a vial), it can be snorted or smoked in a joint, smoking it is tricky though. Be prepared not to move for awhile. Things'll slow down, you'll probably lose the ability to speak coherently and your co-ordination and reflexes will go out the window. Doing too much will put you in what's called a K-hole, the best description I can think of is just that, like you're trapped in an infinitely deep hole, it's not that fun, try to avoid that.
I don't have too much experience with coke or speed, but the same general rules apply, be someplace safe among friends, don't do too much, drink water, and try to keep your mind in check.

I hope this didn't come across as an advertisement for drug abuse, but if you're gonna do 'em anyways, at least you'll know what to expect.

Somehow the above does not bring to mind "safe" and "enjoyable".

Good luck in your search. My only advice - have someone take away your keys so you can't go driving and possibly kill someone. Other than yourself.

Just want you to know that an x-friend of mine thought she'd do the same thing, she started with alcohol, then weed. She's now a hardcore heroin user and i think she's used coke a couple times at the age of 15 and has almost committed suicide (probably multiple times but im unsure), she also has a rap sheet and has been expelled from 3 schools. It's unfortunate that it happened and that's all that i can show, that someone else trying to do the same thing happened to.

thanks rockzilla, your post was pretty imformative. i will of course be with people i know and trust, and i don't drive anyway. i am generally a cautious person and will take every measure possible to make this a safe event.

the purpose of this post was so i can be an informed user, thankyou, MacGnG. i really appreciate all the input, even the negatives because it enables me to have a little perspective on the topic...

thanks again people

Check out www.dancesafe.org

Don't do it. It's as simple as that. It's been said before, but it can't hurt to say it again.

There are good reasons why these drugs are controlled/banned. Ketamine, I believe, is a animal anaesthetic.

All of these addictive drugs take away FREE WILL. both physical and psychologial addiction can and probably will take place.

What are your reasons for trying these drugs? Why do you feel a need to experiment with these drugs? Go check out a few microbrews or fine wines ( they'll probably cost the same... or less...... mmmm... .. wines..... ) Yes, i digress, what are your reasons for wanting to take such a risk?

to each his own.... i was a good student and contributing memeber to the community. I've held very good jobs and done plenty of drugs in my day.

I get paid for MENTAL capacity and ability. So long as I could be ON at 9am and OFF at 7PM it was great... but as I got older it got harder to recover.

I'm going to say do what you want but don't do it alone in case there are some medical problems.... especially the virgin time.

Great job for being 8 months clean. Now why do you want to mess that up? :crazy:

I can understand the desire to experiment. I tried speed, coke, acid (LSD) and the yucky-tasting' shrooms. And I disagree that substituting alcohol is a better alternative to _ anything_.

My opinion of speed is that I felt a not-terribly-pleasant super- adrenaline rush and felt totally burnt-out afterwards. Coke was very alluring, but again, felt fried after. I agree, if you are going to do anything, do the 'shrooms first. The 'shrooms were trippy, like acid, but a more mellow trip, hard to put into words- they weren't as *hard* as acid.

IMO, if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't bother with any pharmaceuticals. They felt too medicinal.

And tho' you didn't ask, the easiest drugs to abuse are tobacco & alcohol - legal & easy to get. I'm not gonna argue with folks on this, but tobacco is the hardest drug to kick. It's highly hypocritical to have booze & tobacco legal, when 'shrooms, of which I've seen no evidence of addictive qualities, are illegal- but that's another thread.

Don't do them. If you need something to change the way you look at life do it by thinking, not taking something. Learn, enlighten your mind. Addiction runs in my family and I've watch my family drag themselves down the tubes because of their addictions. It can happen to anyone, and all it really takes is that first step. No one here can stop you from using drugs, but we can warn you that you can seriously fuck yourself with them. If you try drugs and you like them you do them more, that's addiction, you'll think you can stop anytime you want.. but you won't be able to. Good luck, hope you make the right decission.

Shrooms.. good.. the rest of your list is bad for your "safe/educated" experimentation plan though. I've tried a few supposedly "safe" drugs (lsd/shroom/x/dxm). I get fairly paranoid on just about anything.

Why omit x from your list? You'd be more likely to die randomly from coke or speed. Not sure if there is any truth to the K horror stories I've heard but by all accounts it is generally not pleasant.

Everyone has different tastes. I didn't particularly enjoy x or dxm (cough syrup, similar to K). My recommendation, is LSD and/or shrooms. I'll just group these since I found them similar. I wouldn't try this unless under competent supervision, a sitter, or at least w/ someone who is more experienced tripping with you at the same time. Some people believe that consuming mass vitamin C will intensify the visual experience, plan ahead if you want to give it a shot. You want to be with someone you trust in familiar surroundings, and you don't want to have to deal with any kind of authority figure 1 on 1. You don't want to get paranoid and have your mom find you and end up in the hospital getting your stomach pumped. After you take it, relax and listen to some music. Wait for it to kick in, let it work for a few hours and smoke some weed after it peaks, it really kicks in the visuals. NOTE: don't mix any hallucinogen with alcohol or excessive caffeine (i.e. pills). Get something to drink (like a soda or juice) or some hard candy. Wouldn't eat anything (noodles will squirm, etc.) Go for a nice walk somewhere outside for part of the experience (leaving anything illegal behind) and avoid fast moving cars (sometimes people try to jump in front of cars for no reason, I saved Redirect's life!). Except to be bitchy as hell the next day, especially if it was your first time.

A good source for more reliable information would be the lycaeum (http://www.lycaeum.org/) you can find out about side effects, dosages, myths, long term effects and most importantly read about positive and negative experiences others have had. At least you'd be filtering out all the "drugs are bad, don't do drugs mmmmmkay" posts.


-saladami

What do you say to someone who is determined to dance with the devil other than, "Good Luck"?

Oh, and hope you don't end up like a couple of friends of mine.

i would never recommend doing drugs to anyone. that being said:

i agree with the people who said become informed. that is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. keep your doses low until you understand what you can tolerate.

the links mentioned above are good and i beleive they both have sections that describe the typical effects and people's personal experiences.

i won't chastise you for wanting to experiment, but certainly be careful. i would tend to agree that most drugs are illegal because many people cannot handle their effects.

be honest with yourself about YOUR limits.

c_b

all kinds are alot of fun but coc is the best in my opinion, it makes your body go numb and feels so awesome, just be careful very addicting. Shrooms are pretty good as well, i didn't much visuals but things were wavy and a great body buzz. In my opinion speed is the worst of drugs, seen to many people throw their life away on that. It creeps up on you and sometime you are in to the drug to much and can't get away from it. Extasy is alot of fun to take one, but can be dangerous takes the serotonin from brain. Need to recooperate before taking another to build serotonin back up. I have heard alot of people taking to much and losing their sense of reality and have ended up hurting thems. As long as you know what is real and whats not you should be fine. Be careful and don't take too much. Have fun

es no bueno. (it's no good)

* remember, what goes up must come down (sometimes hard)
* they are a crutch, not a cure
* why would you want to waste the money?
* there is always that good chance you could fuck yourself up or die

after that, I'm not going to preach...just a few realistic notes.
your body, your mind, your time.

I have had extensive experiences with most drugs except heroin.

I can't really think of too much to tell you right now, but if you have a speicific question or was wondering what anything was like just shoot me a PM.

My only recommendation is don't do coke. For me coke is just expensive and doesn't really provide much of the rush I was looking for for the money, but its highly addictive.

wow, didn't expect so many replies. a lot of really good points here.

so, why do i want to do this, dimbulb? i am curious, thats about it. life is pretty drab at the moment, i know this is no reason nor is it an escape, i am not doing this to find a new hobby just to experiment.

and thanks for all the posts again, after reading them i think i will give them a miss except perhaps a small dose of shrooms, i have always been interested in them. i appreciate the tips.

thanks

It's good that you've decided to keep away from the powders. I've rarely had any problems with shrooms, the worst thing that happened was I felt kinda sick. Just don't plan on doing anything important the next morning.

I've been out of school a long time now. I can tell you, there is a big difference in the lives of the people who left that shit behind and the ones who kept at it. It wouldn't be worth getting mixed up in IMHO.

well, i've had those points in my life when nothing is looking up. Good to hear that you're trying to enrich your life. How about a good dose of adrenaline. Good and cheap. and probably cheaper in the long run than drugs or alcohol.

whatever floats your boat. For me, adrenaline is my drug. Snowboarding, rollercoasters, driving(when my SO isnt in the car with me....:rolleyes: ), First Person Shooters.

Experimentation is fun... but not when you know the dangers. ( yes.. i'm naggy... ) kinda like touching the stove when you were a kid, even though you knew it was HOT!!!. except of course touching the stove isnt addictive......


okay. I think i've about covered it all. you sound like a sensible person to me, and ITS YOUR LIFE.

Peyote and Shrooms are the only drugs worth doing. Natural and used medicinally for generations

This is a very very good site, with hunderds of trip reports and and links. Be informed is the only way that you will enjoy most drugs. With shrooms you have to be in the right mindset, you have to be in the right place mentally, or it will desend into paranioa and even panic. But if you are relaxed and aware of the effects of the drugs beforehand and have people there to tell you the things you need to hear, like the fact that you have taken a drug. Erowid, go there

I have to put in my $0.02 here. I tried the experiment you mention, as an experiment, when I 13.

When I was almost 15, I won an all-expense paid 28-day trip to an adolescent drug treatment center.

On the 8th of June (at almost 34) I celebrated 11 years clean. That's nothing - liquid, powdered, injected or stuck up your butt (yep, I did that). So my run didn't necessarily last very long, but it was a long run.

The only thing I'll say about your experiment is that, if you're an addict, you won't be able to stop. If you're not, you can have many interesting/dangerous/exciting/almost deadly experiences. For quite a while in my life using drugs was fun. Then it wasn't.

Know that if you get in trouble you can ask for the same kind of help or advice you've asked for here. Just remember to listen. It's so much easier if you listen...

you need to be careful with what you are doing. I know someone who smoked himself stupid. Think about it, is it really worth it in the end? You could be jepardizing your future.

soemthing that is important for us to help you with is, What do you want to get of doing this "experiment?" i mean if u just wanna try cool drugs that a lot different than some real reason.

the only reason i ever did all the drugs i've done so far and will continue to use is because, they were there and i wanted to try them.

if u have some real reason to try different drugs there are MUCH better drugs to try than those! "speed, ketamine, shrooms, and coke" i have done all of these, most of them are only semi "cool" unless u smoke with them and then they become coller but not by much cept for like shrooms and if yoou smoke K and coke. but speed doesnt get me goin,(no pun intended but thats all it did for me, same as coke, it was intresting but not enough to waste my money and brain cells).

now if you ae doing this "experiement" to "GET FUCK THE HELL UP!" then there are alot better drugs than those. smoke a big fat blunt with good weed in it to your head and you will be fucked up for a while. (at times thats all u really need/want/can handle).

if you just want to try many different drugs , than i understand, thats all you want to do,and that's the thing to do if you are going to do drugs anyway, but that is much different than what i got from this experiment thing.

all i can suggest at this point is to figure out what u want from this and tell us so we can help u figure out what to do.

and hey if you've only smoke shit weed b4 smokeing good weed might be all you were realy looking for and than it's no big deal to worry bout other drugs

Granted no one here can tell you what to do, but I'm going to tell you straight from experience. I've done ecstacy, shrooms, and weed. If you're going to do drugs at ALL, smoke a little weed (not a lot. a LITTLE). Ecstacy made me the happiest I've ever been, which scared me into never doing it again. Anything that good and that artificial is bound be trouble. Shrooms are scary and you HAVE to be in a good mood and around good people who will take care of you to avoid a bad trip. I DJ, so I've been around people on everything from PCP to cocaine to ketamine. Ketamine is one of the worst drugs I've ever seen. You do not want to fuck with it. Cocaine is even worse. PCP...don't get me started. I hope this helped a little bit. But seriously bro, all you need is a little alcohol and maybe a little weed. Use responsibly and in moderation.

The furthest I ever went was weed, and it just didn't float well with me. If your looking for a good time...you don't need drugs to do it. If anything don't go past weed. I've seen people ruin their lives over drugs...don't risk it.

Good luck in whatever you find. I agree. Just stay off the roads and do what you want. Nobody here is really going to stop you from that.

ok, MacGnG, i really only want to try shrooms now and the reason for that is i am really interested in hallucinating, i know that i have to be in a safe environment and around good friends, i will make sure that this happens, and also that i am in the right frame of mind. the last thing i want is to start getting paranoid or to go into a bad trip that i can't get out of.

so anyway, thanks again people, i don't think i will be doing shrooms anytime soon, but when i do i will be doing it the right way.

queer, what do you want to do after HS/college? what career?

I never tried anything, so take my advice for what it is worth, but there are a lot of intelligent people here telling you to stay away that it is dangerous. Think about it.

I've tried it ... didn't get hooked, but I understand more people do get hooked than don't ...


my advice ... when there's a chance of making a mistake: ask yourself would I rather look back and wish I HAD tried it or NOT TRIED it???

i did shrooms a couple times... hallucinations?? what hallucinations? it was still cool, like if u really wanna see shit thats not there, u gotta get into some deep chemicals, Tryptamines and things like that.

shrooms are still cool ,and if you get really good shrooms you could see some cool shit but for me i didnt see much but things jiggle around, like walls and the floor. fun but coulda been better, same as acid, in my opinion.

That's one of the best bits of advice I've ever heard.

-Mikey

Weed is all I ever did. However, you really need to think 3 years down the road. A friend of mine in college was going to get an internship with the local sheriff's office doing IT work. He was allhired and background check was clean, only problem is you had to be clean for 3 years and he smoked weed 2.5 years ago. So he has to wait another four months to get a job, he could have been earning a better paycheck and gaining experience except a few years back he thought it would be cool to do weed with some friends. Just a thought.

I will however, reiterate what others have said. Do it reponsibly, and have someone be there with you who is experienced.

Good luck.

Gariig

Who the hell admits to smoking weed to a cop 2 1/2 years after the fact?

Was there some kind of home video that circulated on the internet proving he did it? That's just stupid. Honest, but stupid.

Sorry, voice stress analyzer, you can not lie to one of those things.

Gariig

it is great that you have been clean for 8 months but if you want to try something you are going to try it period. Personnally I stay away from coke, and herain "the major drugs". Huge fan of weed, mush, acid and i like "e" but it scares me. My tip: be outside but not too far from home. Just for comfort purposes, especially if it is your first time

You've gotta weigh the pros against the cons.
Pros: You'll be high for a little while.
Cons: You could fucking die.

Its just not worth it.

once again, all good advice, especially asdf1001.

Gangsta; i'm curious as to why you would want to know what i want to do with my life. Actually, in that department i am pretty fucked. Too long to go into now, i'll save that for another thread maybe.

I am pretty confused about doing anything now, and i don't want to do anything unless i am 100% sure that i want to. Well i guess i still got a lot to consider, i mean with all the negative i really shouldn't even be thinking about it, but i am still interested.

thanks once again

queer, i'm gonna suggest you spend a lil time at urban 75's drugs section. it's a bullshit free guide to most of the majors out there, what to expect and what dangers you're facing using them.

as with everyone else i do not support their use, but i'd much rather a user know what they're getting into and make informed desicions than just take whatever their dumbfuck friends push on them.

be safe. think. do what makes you happy, but harm no one else. if you find yourself in a situation where your actions are negatively affecting otehrs, it's quitting time. keep that in mind and be careful.

I don't know if this has been said yet, but there seems to be a lot of negative drug stories. I have never really done any serious or hard drugs myself, well a little weed but not so much anymore, but for aa positive drug story read my sig.

Its all about moderation tho. And i find, atm, the best way to "pry open my third eye", so to speak, is to listen to music. Listening to some trippy physcadelic music is sometimes equilivant to being high. Its all a state of mind, well for me. Plus its much healthier!!!

MODERATION!

Seen lots of high patients in the ER. Where drugs go, its just a matter of time until hepatitis, hiv and heart failure follow. NOTHING GOOD CAN COME OF THIS.

telling people they are gonna die cause they do drugs, isn't going to help.

i only started doing drugs recently but i am a responsible, knowledgeable, drug user and havent had any serious problems. not to say i havent had any problems *emotionally* but physically no.

it's about the RISK involved; *most* drugs are relatively safe, ONLY WHEN:
taken in moderation, you have a SOBER "sitter" watching you, and YOU KNOW WHAT U ARE DOING.

always: *STUPID*+DRUGS = DEATH


i am not promoting drugs i am simply saying: people are gonna do drugs if they are determined to do so; at least make sure you are SAFE when you do them and be smart about it.

i dont need comments about how drugs are never safe, because that is wrong as i explained.

I smell a narc. Anyway, buddy slow the fuck down. Don't plan what you're GOING to do but what you're NOT going to do. For example, don't ever inject anything. I've done just about everything over the years, and a couple to ridiculous excess. Avoid doing a lot of the shit that's really addictive if you like it. Don't be in a hurry to try new shit. Don't do too much. When you run out of money, quit.

Who the fuck has ever died from shrooms or speed? Do you guys think before you dispense your 5th grade DARE-educated advice? Fuck, if I were reading this, I'd want to abuse more drugs just to spite the rampant stupidity on this board.

Anyway, a few people have already covered what I will say, so I'll just offer a little more. When trying something new, ask a friend/someone else how much you should take. Divide that by 2 or 3 and thats how much you should start with. Also, with powders (k/speed/coke), only buy from trusted friends who know what they're getting. I've never heard of anyone dying from either of those 3 drugs, but I have heard of people dying by mistaking one powder for another (usually bumping heroin). Also, find someone to do this shit with. if you're doing stuff by yourself, you're probably a loser.

Queer- 'fore ya do the shrooms/peyote, you might find it facinating to get a different outlook on it. Check out "Conversations with Don Quan- a Yaqui way of knowledge" by Carlos Casteneda.

It is an adventure into the spiritual life of Southwestern US indians and their use of hallucinogens as told by a white man. It will completely change your view of these drugs. Might be all you need to spice up that drab life...

Amphetamine and methamphetamine can kill in overdose and lethal overdose is much easier to reach with meth than something more benign like marijuana.

You can't overdose with weed...ever. I've tried a lot of different stuff over the years, but now I just smoke a doobie or two;)

it is very true that you can't OD on THC, but you can get way more stoned than you wanna b lol.

i'm 38 and i've occasionally used drugs over the years. Here's my advice:

- Know yourself first.

If you're an "addictive" personality, prone to binges, watch out. Can you eat just one chip and stop? When you drink, can you have two drinks and say "no thanks, i've got to get up early?" If not, you're in a danger zone playing with drugs. Alcohol is bad enough, drugs are far more powerful than alcohol and can permanently damage you.

- Know the drugs

Erowid, mentioned before, is a great resource. Remember than many street drugs aren't clean, so you may not know what you're getting unless you have a trusted friend helping you. Many drugs (ketamine, nitrous oxide, sniffing glue) can permanently damage your brain with a lot of use. Others (LSD, ecstacy, mushrooms, pot) are generally safe to your body, especially when occasionally experimenting with them. Overuse of anything is bad.

- Think about what you want to get out of the experience

I think drugs are best approached ritually. What are you trying to change in yourself? LSD, in particular, and also shrooms and ecstacy can be a way for you to explore parts of your mind and your self that you have never touched before. To do that, you'll need a "ritual" environment, not a dance club. Approached right, drugs can open up your mind and help you see things in new ways. Approached wrong, and drugs can get you in jail, or make you a mother/father far before you were ready, or give you a STD, or worse.

Drugs are powerful and dangerous, like guns, and they need to be treated with respect. Read some of the horror stories on erowid and you'll see what I mean.

Ok, that said, I've occasionally done LSD, shrooms, and ecstacy (i don't like pot) over the years, and I'm none the worse for it. I took an IQ test a couple of years ago and score exactly the same as I did in high school. My physical health right now is better than it has ever been. I still do ecstacy about 2-4 times a year with close friends, and I find it's a wonderful drug to open you up to friends. I also occasionally do shrooms and it's wonderful to open yourself up internally, but not really a social drug.


Good luck, and be careful!

The poison is in the dose, not the substance. Marijuana is a very benign substance as far as risk of death (I meant to say that marijuana was safer than methamphetamine).

It is entirely possible (and quite easy) to take in more drug than intended and become more stoned than one is comfortable with, as MacGnG stated, hence, OVER DOSING.

Many people seem to have this idea that overdosing is synonymous with lethal dose, which it isnt.

butthead, you said:

surely this is a type? if not, then, in my opinion, you are out of your mind. meth is incredibly dangerous and addictive.

I think your post is pretty neat, but there are a few things that I think must be corrected:

Ketamine has similar risks to drugs like PCP and DXM. Too much may lead to mental impairment and possibly microscopic vacules (holes) in your brain ("Olney's lesions", named after the scientist who discovered it). Although I do not not if it is possible for even non-human primates to suffer from Olney's lesions due to ketamine/dxm/pcp use, it is clear that impairment most likely will occur. Symptoms of impairment seem to disappear with time.

Nitrous oxide, for all intents and purposes, will not damage your brain. Extremely heavy, chronic use may deplete B12 and lead to other adverse conditions, but this can be avoided by taking B12 whenever you feel like binging on nitrous.

While it is true LSD and mushrooms are not heavily taxing on the body in a way that a drug like meth would be in higher doses, and pot can protect the brain from damage due to stroke or physical trauma, MDMA may be something of more concern. MDMA, taken responsibily and infrequently, is unlikely to cause any adverse physical effects related to neurotoxicity (my own opinion). However, when it is used in a way that reflects the media stereotype of an "Ecstasy" user, MDMA may exacerbate adverse psychological conditions and may adversely affect brain tissue. I think the riskiest part of using MDMA for someone who knows what they are doing is finding it.

All of these are on Erowid.

While one may receive blood borne diseases on the rarest of occasions, it wouldn't be sexually transmitted.

Hahah, yeah, that is most definitely a typo! Hahaha! I think marijuana is MUCH safer.

i'll defer to you, butthead, since you appear to have taken the time to do your research. I was always under the impression that nitrous was pretty dangerous stuff. But, I'll trust your opinion on this.

I've yet to see any conclusive evidence on MDMA and brain damage, but it certainly makes sense that it's not a good drug to take several times a week.

I think you took my STD comment too literally. My point was that if you takes lots of drugs and go out nightclubbing, you're likely to end up sleeping with someone you never intended to sleep with, or not use protection when you should have. Drugs lower inhibitions. Clubs are full of sexual predators of both genders (and several sexual preferences). It's best, I think, to do drugs in a "safe" environment with trusted friends.

You know what?? Alchohol was my drug of choice until I turned 30 years old.... THIRTY. I'd never done anything other than occasional weed... I decided to try stuff I should have done when I was 20............. So.... I did X. Exctacy...and I tell you what, I realized how terrible a drug ALCHOHOL was after I did X was. Of course, like anything, you can overdo it. I know people who have taken 2,3 pills at a time, and that will SCREW you up. I did 2 once, and it really messed me up; I won't do it again. BUT... on X, you remember everything, you do not do stupid stuff like you do when you are drunk.... You are in control on X (just do ONE dose, if you do more, you still remember everything but it's pretty f--kd up)..... X is great. You feel good, it lasts 3-4 hours, and it's done, then you sleep and wake up normal.... you don't wake up with a stupid hangover.. ALCHOHOL is the worse drug ever. I really believe that. Well, maybe not EVER, but damn, I love alchohol, and after doing X the first time, being in so much control while I was doing it, I felt betrayed by alchohol... The whole buzzy spinny thing you continue to build on with alchohol, it doesn't happen with X. You just feel like you are in EUPHORIA, and you are in total control, and you know what's going on. DRINK WATER, as you sweat a lot. Other than that, I say you give X a try.

BTW, before I did X, I totally researched it. check out www.dancesafe.org and read what X does to you. I even bought a test kit to make sure my drugs were really X. I didn't play around. I researched this stuff.... and I really thing X is a good drug -- IF YOU REALLY GET X...... Once, thanks to my test kit, I discovered that some pills I got were NOT X but Cough Syrup, and that was AFTER a friend had already taken them (and it really wigged them out).... SO...be careful with it, and you can have fun.

i agree with you, Lagoonguy, ecstacy is a great drug. Far nicer than alcohol. Try taking just half a pill sometime and go out to the clubs. It's lots of fun and you never come close to losing control, you're just giddy and very aware of your surroundings.

Alcohol is a terrible drug. It's too bad we're such a puritan society. Well, at least marijuana will be legal in a few years, even if I don't smoke it. :)

And how many people do you see that came from a car crash? Motorised traffic has killed millions of people but nobody's going 'Cars Kill! Just say no'. Alcholol has ruined so many lives directly and indirectly, but i have yet to hear of a proposal to put it on the drug list. Smoking kills millions of people veryvery slowly, and i've never been able to understand what in god's name is the use of that. I don't see much difference in effect or addictiveness between alcohol and weed, yet every year thousands of people get prosecuted and sentenced to multi-year prisonsentences for possesion or dealing.
I don't get that. It seems that it's mostly based on either tradition or some type of usefulness that we agree upon.

I do agree that drugs are a dangerous business. Bad motivations, tendency to addiction, mental/emotional instability and ofcourse the 'strong and sober' arm of the law can make drugs the direct cause of you fucking up your life.
However, careful education, preperation, selection of dealer etc can greatly improve the safety and pleasure of your adventure.

I've taken xtc, shrooms, LSD, speed and i still smoke grass.
The xtc experiences have really opened me up to other people -and to myself aswell. I wouldn't say that it 'cured' me, but rather it showed me different ways of communicating and looking at myself and the world around me. If I had not made the effort to start practicing these things in real life, it would've been nothing but a nice dream to wake up from.
But I won't be taking any more. I have a tendency to get depressed and the stuff wreaked havoc on my serotonin levels. Researchers seem unsure as to how far the brain can restore this effect. Some say a couple of months, others say never.

The shrooms always made me a bit kranky and nervous. When I did manage to chill out it was pretty cool though- mad colors, and my eyes would sometimes focus on something small, like a puddle in the road and it would just expand into an entire cosmos- and then i'd flip out of it and wonder about the filthyness of that puddle ;)
Don't think you'd have serious hallucinations though, don't expect to be seeing naked chicks running down the street towards you.
Unless you're prone to paranoia/schizophrenia and such, shrooms could be nice. Take half a dose, that should put you on the doorstep, just check out the scenery and think about it for a while. Have someone with you who has some experience with it, he/she'll know how to deal with bad trips.
Rule of thumb: make it clear to yourself that you're on the trip. You're not thinking rationally and basically whatever you're feeling will go away if you just let it go. Watch it as if it were television.

Speed is for suckers, IMO. Like drinking waaay too much coffee and it fucks up your body. Plus it's quite addictive. I've never tried coke because I fear I might like it too much.

Have a safe one!

Don't take them! These drugs do not affect everyone the same way and they could kill you---it's totally not worth the high. Then what if you get hooked, turn into a junkie, live on the streets with no money b/c you spent it on drugs, or kill someone for drugs--dude, what are you thinking?

speed is dangerous and highly addictive. I've got friends who've gotten into it way over their heads (stealing from their friends to support their habit), and I don't plan on ever doing it.

stay away from any drug you inject. The risk of infection is too great, and those kinds of drugs are also very addictive. If you don't want to shoot something up more than once, I suggest you don't do it at all.

cocaine is expensive and addictive, a bad combination. I was going to try it once but the hookup fell through and I took it as an omen. I've also been told stories by friends who saw someone's nose literally fall off after snorting way too much. That alone is a lesson in moderation.

I've done nitrous once (outside of the dentist's) just to try it. It's a pretty funny experience and everything seems to echo, but it lasts no more than a minute, and you look like a complete fool when you're on it.

Shrooms can be fun, but too much will depress you. check out this thread in tilted living for more shroom info, I posted a lengthy bit of advice regarding them. The visuals come from the caps, and the body high from the stems, which might explain some other tfper's experiences mentioned in this thread.

I haven't done acid, but I suppose I'll try it someday. I've heard it's similar to shrooms, with more intense visuals. A safe environment is all I can recommend. In my senior year of high school there was a party where a guy on acid did a swan dive off a balcony, thinking there was a pool underneath.... there wasn't.

I've heard nothing good about DXM or ketamine (in fact mixing DXM and ecstacy can be lethal). I don't plan on doing them and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

Ecstacy can be a great experience, and make you feel a lot better about the world as a whole. Before I took it I read as much about it as I could. dancesafe.org has a great slideshow that shows exactly what it does to your brain. The damage occurs when you're coming down (flooring); seratonin is taken back into the neuron via reuptake transporters, but along with the seratonin goes dopamine, which is bad for your seratonin neurons. To make things worse, the dopamine is broken into hydrogen peroxide, which is poison for the neuron (and causes the damage to the cell). To avoid this damage, take an MAO-B inhibitor like prozac when you start to come down. Be sure your source is legit, there are a lot of bunk pills out there that can do serious damage to you. just remember to stay hydrated. Also, seratonin levels take a minimum of 5 days to return to normal without the use of 5-HTP (tryptophan), but I'd limit the frequency to once a month.

The only problem with weed is it leads to a lack of motivation...

As much as i understand your desire to experiment... I'd stick with the less addictive substances.

Well, I guess I'll be the asshole here.

Wanna do drugs? Wanna experiment? Go ahead. I suggest you try them alone and on top of something very tall, it will add to your "high". Don't pussyfoot around with these wimpy doses, do two to three times what your buddys tell you, that way you really experience the drug (the other kids will think you are cool, too). If you feel you are coming down too hard, hop in the bathtub with your toaster, it's a great buzz-kill. Most importantly: Do not beleive all this hype about drugs being dangerous, nobody really dies or fucks up their life with them, it's all hype.

The DanceSafe slideshow is outdated. New research suggests DA isn't the main culprit in MDMA toxicity, but rather MDMA metabolites.

Prozac is not an MAO-B inhibitor (generally), it is an SSRI and taking this for neuroprotection is questionable and brings its own neurotoxic risks. Deprenyl, anti-parkinson and antidepressant drug, is an MAO-B inhibitor. While it is unclear if Deprenyl is helpful or harmful or to what degree, it is typically a good idea to avoid MAOIs with MDMA.

It will take about two weeks for 5HT systems to return to normal function after using MDMA.

For more information on neuroprotection using MDMA, check out the Neurotoxicity forum on DanceSafe.org.

Anyone here had any experience with Salvia? I really wanna try some of it.

my bad, it's been about 2 years since I've taken the drug, so it's been a while since I read up on it. I get the acronyms mixed up sometimes, you're right about prozac being an SSRI.

I agree with the people who said you should be, at the very least informed. Don't jump into anything with both feet when you don't really know what's going to happen. I've done alot of drugs but now I regret doing 90% percent of them. And I'm only 25. My advice, stay away from everything except mushrooms and bud. Not that these are good for you but things like coke, extacy, acid, mescolyn, meth, heroin and anything else I didn't mention fucking suck. I've never gone the nose candy route but I lost two of my friends (one turned into an asshole, the other's vital organs threw in the towel). The nose and especially tapping the vein is pretty much the stupidest shit you could ever do!
I personally am trying to quit everything right now. It would be best if you just stayed away from all of it.

Zargix: salvia is not something to fuck arond with, you have to be mentally ready for it. read up on it and start with a low extract, make sure some one sober is watching you. have fun be safe its trippy shit.... MAKE SURE YOU HAVE MUSIC!!!! u need like spiritual kinda stuff no words its awsome.

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about the ecstacy stuff, there are lots of vitamins and supplement that are recommend before and after dosing read up on it.

Unforunately this particular tidbit fails to take into account that had you not tried it, you wouldn't know what it was like.

As for my advice, ignore all the people saying "OMG DRUGS ARE BAD DONT TAKE THEM YOU MORON!!!@!112". Well, scratch that. Don't ignore them. Note their opinions, and add them into your mix when you're doing your own research and deciding for yourself what to do. Personally I think it's wonderful that you are considering some experimentation, as it seems to indicate that you are tired of having all the BS (as noted above) pushed down your throat. My advice would be to visit erowid as noted previously. Erowid is a wonderful resource, and can help you with many if not all of your drug-related questions.

Above all, know what you're dealing with. Don't take anything just because someone says "hey man, eat this" and hands you a pill. When experimenting with psychedelics, do it in a happy, safe environment, such as your living room, with a friend or two who have experience with what you're doing.

Take it easy, and everything will work out. You aren't going to have sudden urges to run out in traffic or jump out the window or stare at the sun until you go blind. :)

Just to be the opposing voice here, it should be noted that Olney's Lesions have never been shown to occur in humans. In fact, the animals in which they have been found (rats) have an entirely different metabolization pathway for the above-mentioned dissociatives, making it highly unlikely that Olney's Lesions could occur. The paper linking use of dissociatives to Olney's Lesions and NAN (NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity) was not peer-reviewed or published in any journals. The author, William White, was once usenet's resident DXM expert, but he has not been heard from for some time now.

In short, he made it up. It's an interesting theory, but nothing more than that. Most reports of mental impairment in dissociative users come from reeeally heavy usage (5+ times a week) and as far as I know most people generally recover after a year or two of not using it. Sure, even a bit of short-term impairment is bad, but its certainly possible to use dissociatives at levels below those at which impairment seems to be fairly common (not 5+ times a week :P)

It's true that drugs are bad (m'kay), including alcohol and tobacco, but that never stopped myself and nearly all of my friends and associates from experimenting.

Much sense has been spoken in this thread on both sides of the arguement although one very important piece of advice has not been mentioned yet:

DON'T GET CAUGHT. The police don't care if it's your first time or your thousandth time. They'll lock you up and charge you without hesitation.

That said, don't ever O'D on ketamine. The k-hole is a dark place, from which many people never return.

Time for you to come to BC my friend;)

NAN (induced from either dissociative or Diet-drink use) and OL are theoretical risks, such as MDMA neurotoxicity. In reality, I doubt it's a risk worth getting your panties in a bunch over (for humans, anyway). More research would be appreciated though.

However, I will admit that I have heard of impairment in DXM users that used at a maximum way less than five times a week.

Any idea if these people still experienced impairment after laying off the DXM for a few months?

if you really feel this is something you must do, do it as safe as possible and stay away from the harder stuff (herion, etc). That shit will really mess your life up quickly (My sister got hooked on herion, said the same thing most people do, I won't get hooked).

I haven't heard from them in sometime, but I believe most recovered from their presumed DXM-induced impairment after having discontinued use for several months.

As far as I know, there haven't been any cases where people reported 'permanent' impairment as a result of DXM use. So I guess your friends are pretty much par for the course.

Everyone needs to get a little f-d up once in awhile. It's to what extreme they want to take it. Most people look down on "illegal" drug users but have no problem downing handfuls of Vicodin when their back hurts and until the bottle runs out.

Key thing here for you younger people. All of this will slowly eat away at your liver and gall bladder (your body's filter).

So if you take anything TAKE IT IN MODERATION or you'll be paying for it down the road (a while but trust me you don't want to go there)

And if you're gonna get high... get high with a friend.

But it makes you lazy as hell. Some people can't take it and I know a few... Sitting on the couch at home all day watching MTV and living with their parents at age 30... :rolleyes:

I stand corrected/

excessive use of DXM, PCP, and Ketamine (all Dissociative by chemical structure) have been proven to cause severe brain damage. moderate short term use does not seem to cuase many problems besides standard side effects.
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anyway just do research before you do any drugs and dont do them too much

The irony is intense. You are the person making idiot statements.

Generally, "shrooms" containing LSD-like compounds are amazingly non-toxic. There may be unpleasant effects, but there is no neurotoxicity. Those compounds bind to serotonin receptors.

Also, your extreme hypothetical scenarios are weak.

When made properly, there will be no trace of toxic precursor chemicals in amphetamine or methamphetamine. Do you know what is in cigarettes? Not saying that makes using speed any better, but is seems the consensus is not concerned with what they are inhaling in their cigarettes, so why meth?

If there's one source I trust to give me information without having a political agenda, it's erowid.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth_effects.shtml
Doesn't say anything about overdosing though.
As with XTC, people don't usually overdose from the drug itself, but rather from dehydration. Supposedly one person dies each month at a rave.
Thing is, with all the extra energy and the vibe going on, people dance for hours on end without drinking and their body goes into hyperthermia and eventually death.
To say that XTC kills is more or less like saying alcohol kills (smashing one's car into a tree). Cause and effect.
I can't find any info about overdosing that I trust right now, but I can imagine taking so much meth that the heart starts racing and eventually gives up.

Please look at this if you don't think speed is made from toxic chemicals:

http://www2.state.id.us/dhw/behs/meth_labs_brochure.htm

cold tablets
alcohol
starter fluid
camping fuel
anti-freeze
drain cleaner
rock salt
farm fertilizer
red devil lye
matches
iodine
acids
lithium batteries

Of course they are used in it's production and not all ingredients are supposed to wind up in the final product.

I live and lived in areas where a lot of meth labs are. Everytime one gets busted they have to call a Haz-Mat team out to clean it up. Very expensive and time consuming.

Butthead said "When made properly, there will be no trace of toxic precursor chemicals in amphetamine or methamphetamine. "

Until it's legalized, you don't know what you are getting when you buy the stuff. Don't be ignorant.

I'll repeat again.. You don't know what you are getting when you buy the stuff.

I agree that Psilocybin is probably the safest among the hallucinogenics.

Your choice man.. I don't care but you need to get over your bias and look at both sides and in between.

and how often is meth made properly anyways? I'm sure if you saw who was making your speed and where it was made, you'd think twice before popping it.

Which is a problem with prohibition, not with meth, and since you have no real data about that, it shouldn't really be used in an argument as a main point. It's a scare tactic. True, you don't know much about what you're getting, but chances are it's not going to kill you instantly (or even eventuallly, unlike cigarettes).

Get over my bias? How about you put up a decent argument, then we'll talk. What methamphetamine is made with is irrelevant to its safety since its unlikely those toxic chemicals are going to be present in the methamphetamine in large enough doses to cause any significant damage. What is relevant is what really is in there, and since neither of us have any actual data about that, maybe we should shut the fuck up about it.

Right, because "my" meth is made by that skinny as dirty girl down the street with black patches around her eyes. Believing in stereotypes and prejudging is really awesome for lack of a real argument.

Par for the course, from what I see on this entire board when it comes to drug arguments.

So now meth is all dangerous because of possible low doses of chemicals I could most likely find in much larger amount in a pack of cigarettes (oh that's IF dirty girl makes meth, which she doesn't, that's why she's dirty girl). I also don't buy from dirty girl and have no reason to believe any methamphetamine I would or have bought contained any precursor chemicals any deadlier than I would find in a cigarette.

Well gentleman, if that isn't the argument to end all arguments...

Butthead:

A serious question for you: Have you ever snorted meth? Done it for a while? Have you been around people who do it? Have you seen the short-term effects it has people? Have you seen or experienced meth withdrawals?

And most importantly, have you ever made or witnessed the making of meth?

I am not attacking you. I just want to see if you are responding based on experience.

The only good thing about meth is that most people who are stupid enough to use it die before they breed. Good riddance.

"Proof" meth is harmful (in pure form, nevermind the crap you get on the streets):

http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic859.htm

That article reminded me of "ICE". Crystallized meth that they inhale (after burning) in Hawaii. Yes they do it elsewhere... Probably nastier than crack.

I never, ever motherfucking said that methamphetamine was harmless. NEVER EVER FUCKING EVER.

I'm responding objectively using facts. If I seem somewhat bias, it is because I believe you not using being objective enough. I've used methamphetamine extensively in the past, been around people who did, lived with people who were addicted to it, and I know pharmcologically what it does and I know what is likely to happen after chronic, high-doses of methamphetamine.

Will you try responding to my points objectively now, using facts?

What are your points?

Precursor chemicals are not a reason to think badly of a drug.

Can't figure out how a "dirty"girl got mixed into this discussion or what your point was. Also, comparing cigarettes to crystal meth is not even a worthwhile subject to debate.

Unless you want to have a controlled study of the overall health (mental and physical) effects of smoking to a group of 1,000 people versus the effects of crystal on 1,000 people. And if you do... let's make it PPV and make a couple bucks off it. :hmm:

Drugs are just bad...ummm k

I'm defending that meth is not some terrible ass drug that's going to rape your children and shoot your dog. It's a drug and does not have the capacity to be good or bad in such a general context.

Then someone comes up to me saying "ooo, meth is so bad and here's why" because it is made with toxic precursor chemicals (like a lot of the fucking drugs people take safely). I saw this as a retarded argument and pointed it out. If you're going to go all apeshit because of what meth is made with (btw, those chemicals are extracted from the final product), then you'd better go double apeshit at the idea of millions dying annually by self-poisoning by cigarette. Keep it in perspective.

I was then hit with more weak arguments, such as who makes methamphetamine. Pharmaceutical companies do and presumably evil drug making junkies do too. "Dirty girl" is a heroin chic cliche of "meth junkies", a stereotype many ignorant people believe is responsible for making methamphetamine. It was a joking way to dismiss the terrible argument of "who makes meth".

Read above.

Meth is a drug, meth has potential for positive and negative use. Chronic, high-dose methamphetamine use is unwise and will lead to trouble.