Spritebox

Let me expand: What's the best way for a full-time college student to learn music theory? I already plan to look for some sort of private piano lesson for the weekends in order to help learn and practice such a complex concept. I've got a couple of piano and guitar theory books to refer to when in a rut...but I still don't feel like I'm grasping any of it at all (probably because I've yet to see what I've been learning in practice on the piano).

My goal is to eventually know enough theory so that I can incorporate it into the Live! DJ'ing program in order to make better music. Any sort of help or link would be appreciated.

Thanks!

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aberkok

You have a book already, and you're planning on taking private lessons. That's a good start and beyond that I don't know what your study habits are, so I can't prescribe anything.

I will say this though. Make sure you listen to a lot of music, and over and over. I suggest some music from what is known as the "standard practice" era, which basically means Bach, Beethoven and Mozart. Find a piece you like (they wrote thousands between them, so you should be able to find one), and put it on twice a day for a week. If you don't have time for it, then do as much as you can. Music theory learnt out of a book will focus mostly on music from that era.

You need to develop your "bank" of music theory. The large myth about music theory is that one "learns" it, but if you think about it, most people are brought up (especially now with recorded music taken for granted), listening to an extraordinary amount of music and can sing along with many of the "great hits,"be it "Ode to Joy," or "Let it Be." I say that music theory is merely the isolation and recognition of things we already know. The purpose being so that we can call a device our own and use it, like you have in mind.

The more you drink in from the well, the more (I'm really, really sorry for this metaphor) hydrated you'll be for your mental theory workout. What you're looking for is the "AAAAH I know that sound from *insert piece here*!!!!" factor.

Hope this helps rather than confuses.

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politicophile

Music theory is one of those skills that is much easier to learn from an instructor than on your own. If your college offers any music theory courses, taking one might be the fastest way to get a solid foundation for your knowledge. Other than that, I'd make sure the piano teacher you select is knowledgeable in the realm of theory and perhaps devote a portion of your lesson time specifically to learning theory. I found that my theory-conscious piano teacher was able to improve my knowledge of theory at a rate I could never have matched studying on my own.

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vanblah

Be prepared to go through the "just enough to be dangerous" phase. You can really KILL a piece of music by applying too much theory. It's sort of a catch-22. You find yourself saying, "I can't do that because it's not proper" which is BS because in music (and art in general) anything goes. I like to apply theory AFTER the fact. I don't re-write a piece based on theory ... I explain what I've done using theory.

To me, music theory is just a method for quickly explaining how to do something. When I'm writing music or playing live I disengage the "theory brain" and just "feel" what I'm doing. Theory just gets in the way if I try to apply it while I'm playing a solo or something. It's like constantly checking a thesaurus when writing poetry. Yes, the language may be beautiful and flowery, but is there any substance really there?

Of course, it took a knowledge of theory to get to the point where I can actually play a meaningful solo; just like a great poet has a huge catalog of words and literary devices in their brain.

Read books about theory and find someone who knows more than you and can explain it without making you feel like an idiot.

aberkok

To add to what vanblah said, theory is not rules. If that was the case, that's what it would be called. Theory should be viewed as "stylistic guidelines," which work well in the majority of cases. History is filled with pieces which "break the rules."

Theory books are always written after the music. By studying great examples, you can start on the path to finding your own voice.

I do disagree, however, that learning too much theory can take the magic out of music.

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Willravel

The piano lessons should suffice. Contact your local PTA (piano teachers association) for information on local piano teachers and make a decision based on your specific needs. For my money, piano is the easiest instrument to learn theory on. Oh, and if you have questions, there are plenty of tilted musicians (some of us even have our majors in music).

vanblah

Just to clarify. I didn't mean to make it sound like learning too much theory can take the magic out of music. I meant that trying to use theory to create music MAY take the magic out.

You can never learn enough.

Sorry.

hannukah harry

uhm... my suggestion, from someone just starting to learn theory himself, is flash cards. get a book on music theory, read that. but make flash cards of things like how scales, modes and chords are constructed (theoretically) and then what they look like when applied to each key. so you can start memorizing them. a big part of theory (or at least applying it) is knowing how these things are created and interact. i think that that's at least a good way to start.

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aberkok

I definitely agree. Pardon if I mis-understood.

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Tusko

www.guitar.com


if you want to pick through all the (recent) bullshit, there are some smart, smart people there.

onodrim

There is already a lot of good advice here, so I'll just add a link to the discussion. When I was taking music theory my freshman year at college, it was my first exposure to it and needless to say I needed a little extra help on the side. I found this lovely little website that takes you through a series of interactive lessons and goes in order of complexity, very useful. Hope it helps you out too!

MusicTheory.Net

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MiSo

best way to learn theory is by taking a college course.
i studied music for about 6 years before entering college.
i would call myself an above average music student, but when you take a music course in college, it really blows you away.
the things you learn on a college level will definately help you to better understand music.

rsl12

What does that mean? "Live! DJ'ing"? Music Theory is a broad topic, and the people learning it can generally be broken into two camps:

1. Classical musicians/composers who want to become better musicians/composers. These guys learn classical theory, which involves a lot of talk about voicings and progressions and musical lines. Musicians learn how to logically think about music, making memorization of pieces easier. Composers learn how what ingredient combinations work well together, and are free to use that knowledge in their classical compositions.

2. Jazz/Rock musicians/composers who want to become better musicians/composers. These guys learn jazz/rock theory, which focuses strongly on the ability to interpret fake books and improvise (therefore, a lot more scales/chord training than in classical theory). Musicians learn what can be substituted where, what licks sound good over what chords. Composers learn what chords/notes are available to them, but unlike classical composers, these guys don't have to worry so much about writing out every single note for every single part of a song--they can depend on the musicians to handle part of the responsibility.

Where do you fall into this? If 'djing' means recording your own tracks, a la DJ Shadow, improvising is probably not what you need--classical theory may do fine for you. If 'djing' means stringing songs together into a necklace for a club, I'm not sure you need any theory--just some musical sensibility and an ability to recognise the tempo/key of a song. If 'djing' means playing around with a couple of turntables, or providing lyrics over a dub, your time may be better spent learning to play drums, since rhythm is what you need to worry about more than anything.

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rsl12

Hm...there is a 3rd camp, which is 'beginning music theory', which is how to read music, basically, and all the fundamentals of keys and rhythm. That's what most everyone learns when they start an instrument. If that's what you mean, by all means go for it, no matter what kind of DJ you are!

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mikeylips

I'm a junior music major and while this is true, once I got to my third and fourth level classes there is a lot of theory that is in fact based on rules. The trick is when you venture into the world of composition...those rules of course can be bent and broken and that's why what's being written today sounds so weird. It isn't following the "rules" that our western world ears have grown used to.

SteveoTG

Yes, but the deviation of those ingrained rules and the manipulation of the necessities we hear in music is what seperates the good new music fromt he crap. Just because everything is allowed doesn't mean you can put a bunch of random ass shit together and call it a masterpiece. Too many people hide behind artistic license to excuse their music not making any sense or having any message.

Martian

I have no advice on how to learn above what's been covered. I just want to throw in another take on the importance of theory.

When I was in high school, I was almost certainly a music student first and foremost. I played three instruments and had about a dozen music credits under my belt; obviously a big part of that was learning theory and it worked for me then in the stilted, awkward way that it works for all students.

When I got out in the real world, I ended up throwing away everything I'd ever learned about theory. I don't think about it anymore; but there's a bit of a catch to that. Because I'd studied music for so long and so intensively by then, the essential parts were sort of ingrained. I don't have to think of the composition of a major scale or what the relative minor of C is (tone tone semitone tone tone tone semitone and A, respectively) anymore than I have to think about how to open a door. So I can toss the rest of it out the window and trust my instincts to steer me in the right direction, whether I'm just noodling around on my guitar or actually trying to write a piece.

It takes practice and perseverence to develop a musician's ear. Learning theory will be a big help on that path, although it's certainly not essential. But don't use the theory as a crutch. Take it, internalize it and trust your own judgement.

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taboo

that music theory link is amazingg i'm so stuck on it now...

thingstodo

Music theory is like math, and you really benefit the most from learning in a classroom setting. And it does take some time if you really want to learn enough to do you any good, meaning there are no shortcuts.

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ratbastid

I took AP Theory in high school and some theory in college. I agree, theory is a structure or scaffold on which you can build, but it's not a rigid set of absolutes, no matter how bat-shit absolute your teacher may be about it.

Most classical music since 1900 has broken the rules. In fact, that's been the main rule for contemporary music. Ironically, rock and jazz are much more conservative in this regard than contemporary classical music. You break a rule in jazz and just watch the expression on the faces of the guys playing with you!

I've been playing a LOT of jazz piano lately. I've gotten to the point that I can basically vamp through a lead sheet on first sight. But recently I sat down with a score for the High School musical a friend is directing, and I couldn't sight-read it for a thing! I'm smarter now than I've ever been about chords, scales, and progressions, meanwhile I've totally forgotten how to sight-read piano music! Weird!

rsl12

ratbastid: I've undergone a shift as well--the last couple of years I've been focused on Jazz piano, and now I'm to the point where, if I'm playing a classical piece, I have to write out the chords above the measures!! I can't read lots of notes quickly anymore.

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TheObserver

Listens to music and noise, develop you're own theories... that way you'll have some grounding as to where these guys are coming from, and where they go their inspiratoin fo r their theories... If i were you i would theories on the nature of sound, and two beats together, of teh social, biological, and ration products, and influence produced.