LED lightbulbs - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tempboy · 05-02-2004, 08:35 PM

My family is building a new house, and I'm interested in proposing the idea of using LED rather than conventional light bulbs to use for lighting.

I remember reading an article about the low energy consumption etc. etc. and I figured it was something to consider, but I can't find any good information about cost effectiveness, price-per-unit, etc. about them. I've been googling for a while, and still coming up with nothing.

Can anyone provide info?

Yakk · 05-03-2004, 06:49 AM

LED lightbulb light isn't that high quality.

As far as I know, the current tech LED lights are blue LEDs with a yellow phosphorous. Blue+Yellow looks vaguely white to humans.

However, it isn't really white light. It makes thinks look strange, because it is missing entire chunks of the spectrum.

Go for good florescents, they approximate "real" white light better, and are also very low power...

A PDF on White LED lights.

Dilbert1234567 · 05-04-2004, 10:28 AM

i have a white LED flash light, its very powerful for its size (size of a minimag with the power of a full size one)

it is cheaper to do LED month to month but the up front cost is high.

Charlatan · 05-04-2004, 10:34 AM

You should go with Hologen spots... They use limited power but provide a lot of light.

Mondak · 05-04-2004, 12:58 PM

These links should get you started. The first site will be the most helpful overall, but the others may be interesting as well. Things like fiberoptics mixed in to throw light to different places in the house can really lead to some things that would not otherwise be possible.

The first site also has an energy savings calculator which I think is one of the things you were looking for. PM me if you want. I would love to hear your ideas.

http://www.led.net/

http://www.superbrightleds.com/

http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/

Sapper · 05-07-2004, 08:30 PM

The LED idea is awesome - it saves you a zillion $$ in the long run - but as I recall researching, the intial cost can be as high as 20x.

As noted, the problem with LED light is the limited spectra of emission - the limited range of colours that the LEDs give off.

What follows is a hypothesis of mine which I am currently researching: Limited visible spectra in the workplace / living space of humans is a leading cause of migraine headaches. The null hypothesis of course is that migraine headaces occur in frequency which is independant of lighting environment.

Have you ever noticed a change in your overall demeanour or "mental health" when you have been stuck in artificial lighting for long periods? In particular flourescent lighting?

The sun gives off (as best we can tell) the entire spectra of EM radiation - which means all possible "shades" of the colours. I have a feeling that as we expose ourselves to limited lighting, we are affected physiologically. This is akin to seasonal variation disorder in my mind.

When I have enough replication to validate my initial findings, I'll certainly let you know. In the mean time, care to be part of a control group?

iamnormal · 05-12-2004, 01:54 AM

For good lighting a mix of technologies would be best.

A lot of lighting nuts here
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/

Other Info
http://lighting.sandia.gov/
http://oikos.com/index.lasso

tehhappyboy · 05-14-2004, 01:02 PM

I know a guy who works at a place where they research LED replacements for regular applications. LEDs now exist that are very wide spectrum so your headache problem is a thing of the past. The other problem is that you cannot reliably dim an LED because it requires a minmum amount of voltage or current (can't remember which). Someone is developing a perfectly dimmable LED throughout all voltages which is quite a trick. Remember your vitamin D though. Some areas of your house need a certain color for you to be happy. Kitchens should be more orange so the food looks appetizing (unless you need to lose weight : o ). And bathrooms can usually be cool so that when your girlies are applying makeup it looks like it will look. Skylights in bathrooms are a great addition that I love. Compact flourescents are as of right now a little less monochromatic and have a better beam spread. (LEDs tend to be one direction). But do some research. I think there is a company http://www.ledtronics.com/ that has a listing of a lot of replacement bulbs. Check em out.

Oh, and PS. Reliability. This company is great when I've used them. Other companies I know have had electronics failures. Some of the street lights in my town have sections that go out. LEDs last 100,000 hours so that's 11 years. The electronics are what make it last so long. Up front price will pay off in regained electricity, not having to replace the lamp (get warranty, keep receipt), and time spent replacing them.

-Best
Aaron Brown

-Note: I know people at LEDtronics, just wanted to report that. Don't want to be accused of being dishonest. That's why I know they are good products.

Lebell · 05-14-2004, 07:43 PM

There is blurb on a new LED flood light (yes, you heard me) in the new issue of Popular Science.

Pricey, but cool...literally

nothingx · 05-20-2004, 05:41 AM

That's a great idea! It would be cool if you could make your whole ceiling out of a matrix of LEDs. It would completely eliminate shadows and cost next to nothing to turn on. I can't imagine how expensive it would be to build though. Let us know if you actually go with the LEDs...

Tempboy · 05-22-2004, 11:44 PM

Thanks for the info, I'll do a little more research and present the idea to my family soon

Jay Francis · 05-28-2004, 07:29 PM

I haven't had good experience with the light quality of LED white light. I ended up taking back a flashlight because the illuminating properties were wanting (Sharper Image).

My vote would be for fluorescent lighting. Cheap, long lasting. bright.

teph · 05-28-2004, 10:06 PM

Ahh, Solid-state lighting . . .

I didn't really have anything new to add besides the name

. . .

We studied LED's briefly this past semester in Materials Science - the actual semi-conductors in them and such - very efficient, but it generally takes a lot of them or very good fiber optics to get an equal amount of light from them.

Personally, I wouldn't use them everywhere in my home, but in a basement, they'd be great.

Let us know what you do.

Yakk · 05-29-2004, 03:15 PM

I talked with someone more keen on LED lights at work, and he corrected some of my mistakes.

LED lights come in two basic flavours. Single-colour LED lights. These are about 14 times more efficient than incandescent bulbs, but they generate basically a single frequency.

"White" LED lights are done by having a high energy LED that shines on a phosphorescent substance. The white light comes from the phosphor (or from the sum of the LED light and the phosphor).

Good quality white LED lights are only 2 to 4 times more efficient than incandescent bulbs.

The real advantage is, LED lights apparently last for a long time compared to incandescents. Another advantage is, you can make efficient extremely low brightness LEDs, while you can't do this with incandescent bulbs.

This post is based off hearsay evidence, but the person I heard it from is pretty reliable on these things (more than me!).

iamnormal · 05-29-2004, 10:03 PM

From what I know the red to yellow LEDs are the most efficient and they have been around for some time. The green to UV are newer types of LEDs and haven't become more efficient because of being new. Hopefully they will become more efficient with time like the red LEDs.
White LEDs are made from these newer types of LEDs with a phosphorescent coating.

05-02-2004, 08:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	LED lightbulbs My family is building a new house, and I'm interested in proposing the idea of using LED rather than conventional light bulbs to use for lighting. I remember reading an article about the low energy consumption etc. etc. and I figured it was something to consider, but I can't find any good information about cost effectiveness, price-per-unit, etc. about them. I've been googling for a while, and still coming up with nothing. Can anyone provide info?

05-03-2004, 06:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	LED lightbulb light isn't that high quality. As far as I know, the current tech LED lights are blue LEDs with a yellow phosphorous. Blue+Yellow looks vaguely white to humans. However, it isn't really white light. It makes thinks look strange, because it is missing entire chunks of the spectrum. Go for good florescents, they approximate "real" white light better, and are also very low power... A PDF on White LED lights. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

05-04-2004, 10:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	i have a white LED flash light, its very powerful for its size (size of a minimag with the power of a full size one) it is cheaper to do LED month to month but the up front cost is high. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

05-04-2004, 10:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	You should go with Hologen spots... They use limited power but provide a lot of light. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-04-2004, 12:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mondak Industrialist Location: Southern California	These links should get you started. The first site will be the most helpful overall, but the others may be interesting as well. Things like fiberoptics mixed in to throw light to different places in the house can really lead to some things that would not otherwise be possible. The first site also has an energy savings calculator which I think is one of the things you were looking for. PM me if you want. I would love to hear your ideas. http://www.led.net/ http://www.superbrightleds.com/ http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/ __________________ All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed Second, it is violently opposed and Third, it is accepted as self-evident. ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

05-07-2004, 08:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
Sapper Insane Location: The Internet	The LED idea is awesome - it saves you a zillion $$ in the long run - but as I recall researching, the intial cost can be as high as 20x. As noted, the problem with LED light is the limited spectra of emission - the limited range of colours that the LEDs give off. What follows is a hypothesis of mine which I am currently researching: Limited visible spectra in the workplace / living space of humans is a leading cause of migraine headaches. The null hypothesis of course is that migraine headaces occur in frequency which is independant of lighting environment. Have you ever noticed a change in your overall demeanour or "mental health" when you have been stuck in artificial lighting for long periods? In particular flourescent lighting? The sun gives off (as best we can tell) the entire spectra of EM radiation - which means all possible "shades" of the colours. I have a feeling that as we expose ourselves to limited lighting, we are affected physiologically. This is akin to seasonal variation disorder in my mind. When I have enough replication to validate my initial findings, I'll certainly let you know. In the mean time, care to be part of a control group? __________________ rm -f /bin/laden

05-12-2004, 01:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
iamnormal Addict Location: In the id	For good lighting a mix of technologies would be best. A lot of lighting nuts here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ Other Info http://lighting.sandia.gov/ http://oikos.com/index.lasso

05-14-2004, 01:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
tehhappyboy Tilted	I know a guy who works at a place where they research LED replacements for regular applications. LEDs now exist that are very wide spectrum so your headache problem is a thing of the past. The other problem is that you cannot reliably dim an LED because it requires a minmum amount of voltage or current (can't remember which). Someone is developing a perfectly dimmable LED throughout all voltages which is quite a trick. Remember your vitamin D though. Some areas of your house need a certain color for you to be happy. Kitchens should be more orange so the food looks appetizing (unless you need to lose weight : o ). And bathrooms can usually be cool so that when your girlies are applying makeup it looks like it will look. Skylights in bathrooms are a great addition that I love. Compact flourescents are as of right now a little less monochromatic and have a better beam spread. (LEDs tend to be one direction). But do some research. I think there is a company http://www.ledtronics.com/ that has a listing of a lot of replacement bulbs. Check em out. Oh, and PS. Reliability. This company is great when I've used them. Other companies I know have had electronics failures. Some of the street lights in my town have sections that go out. LEDs last 100,000 hours so that's 11 years. The electronics are what make it last so long. Up front price will pay off in regained electricity, not having to replace the lamp (get warranty, keep receipt), and time spent replacing them. -Best Aaron Brown -Note: I know people at LEDtronics, just wanted to report that. Don't want to be accused of being dishonest. That's why I know they are good products. __________________ I'm a happy boy, happy boy, way to get when things are going your way. Hey Hey. ...Pretty sure I asked for Pecan Sandies... Last edited by tehhappyboy; 05-14-2004 at 01:06 PM..

05-14-2004, 07:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	There is blurb on a new LED flood light (yes, you heard me) in the new issue of Popular Science. Pricey, but cool...literally __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

05-20-2004, 05:41 AM	#10 (permalink)
nothingx undead Location: nihilistic freedom	That's a great idea! It would be cool if you could make your whole ceiling out of a matrix of LEDs. It would completely eliminate shadows and cost next to nothing to turn on. I can't imagine how expensive it would be to build though. Let us know if you actually go with the LEDs...

05-22-2004, 11:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	Thanks for the info, I'll do a little more research and present the idea to my family soon

05-28-2004, 07:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jay Francis Psycho Location: Houston, Texas	I haven't had good experience with the light quality of LED white light. I ended up taking back a flashlight because the illuminating properties were wanting (Sharper Image). My vote would be for fluorescent lighting. Cheap, long lasting. bright.

05-28-2004, 10:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
teph Insane Location: Atlanta, GA	Ahh, Solid-state lighting . . . I didn't really have anything new to add besides the name . . . We studied LED's briefly this past semester in Materials Science - the actual semi-conductors in them and such - very efficient, but it generally takes a lot of them or very good fiber optics to get an equal amount of light from them. Personally, I wouldn't use them everywhere in my home, but in a basement, they'd be great. Let us know what you do.

05-29-2004, 03:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	I talked with someone more keen on LED lights at work, and he corrected some of my mistakes. LED lights come in two basic flavours. Single-colour LED lights. These are about 14 times more efficient than incandescent bulbs, but they generate basically a single frequency. "White" LED lights are done by having a high energy LED that shines on a phosphorescent substance. The white light comes from the phosphor (or from the sum of the LED light and the phosphor). Good quality white LED lights are only 2 to 4 times more efficient than incandescent bulbs. The real advantage is, LED lights apparently last for a long time compared to incandescents. Another advantage is, you can make efficient extremely low brightness LEDs, while you can't do this with incandescent bulbs. This post is based off hearsay evidence, but the person I heard it from is pretty reliable on these things (more than me!). __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

05-29-2004, 10:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
iamnormal Addict Location: In the id	From what I know the red to yellow LEDs are the most efficient and they have been around for some time. The green to UV are newer types of LEDs and haven't become more efficient because of being new. Hopefully they will become more efficient with time like the red LEDs. White LEDs are made from these newer types of LEDs with a phosphorescent coating.