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Old 08-20-2008, 11:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Location: Central Central Florida
Septic systems and flooding, anyone?

I'm afraid of problems and of getting screwed, so I'd appreciate any help at all here.

Tropical Storm Fay has been pounding my area for the past 36 hours or so. Our local station said this area's had over 20" of rain so far and can expect another 5 or 10 before tomorrow.

Meanwhile, my septic tank alarm went off. I was lucky enough to have the builder's construction boss contact number, and he told me how to shut the siren and told me to call the septic tank company. He did say it was definitely due to the flooding here. The light on the alarm is still on and, apparently, will remain lit until the problem no longer exists.

I hesitate to do this because I know I'll be charged a sweet fee just to have them come out. They've also been writing me incessantly, urging me to sign on for a service contract. I'm not working now, my credit card is just about full and I'm a little scared, since I don't know a whole lot about septic systems.

Researching a bit online has told me I should wait and pump the system when the rains recede. First of all, even if the rains stop tomorrow or Friday, I'm not sure how far all that will have receded. Secondly, once I figure out how to determine if it's receded enough, is this something I can do myself? Or is this something that could possibly take care of itself by merely waiting for it to dry out? The system was not used before I moved into this house (it was built a little over a year ago and was empty until I moved in mid-June).

Help I'm drowning and don't want the tank contents spewed all over my backyard.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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having a septic tank is basicly something you want to have done every year or two. Its not something you can do yourself. And trust me even if you could you wouldnt want to. Basicly everything you flush down the toilet ends up in the septic tank. Im no expert thats for sure but basicly the way they work is theres a big tank underground in your yard that has a set of pipes that extend out into the yard that basicly release the water from the system into the ground. or something like that. keeping all the worst stuff in the tank. All the rain your getting most likely just found its way into the system and mixed in with all that nastyness from your sewage. And dont worry it wont really back up into your backyard... it will come out through the easiest path. back up through your drains into your house. So yeah... as soon as the rain stops get them out there to drain it. unless you want that stuff showing up in your shower drain or something. With the house being that new im not really sure what could happen if it does overflow from rain but no mater how you look at it it wont be pleasant. Part of living in a area prone to storms like that i suppose. I dont think anyone is trying to rip you off or anything. If you dont want to go with the company thats been nagging you... just dont im sure theres plenty more in the area that will do it. no reason to be on any sort of contract for something like that. Just call them out every couple years or so. But having someone come out and drain your septic tank is all part of not being connected to city water and sewage. I know your not supposed to have stormwater drain anywhere near the septic field i assume this is the problem your having. but when you get that much rain i dont think it matters how your stormwater drainage is set up. Dont think houses there have basements or sump pump systems but i could be wrong. but if you have a sump pump make sure its not connected to the septic system draining into that. and make sure your roofs gutters drain away from the house and hopefully away from the septic field. that sort of thing could cause it to fill up faster. but when you get 20-30 inches of rain in a few days... yeah just consider it storm damage.

Its not really something they can screw up doing. They dig a hole in the yard over the tank pull the lid off it shove a hose from a giant truck down it and suck out all that nastyness then throw the lid back on and dump dirt back over the top and call it done.

Oh just FYI not sure if its different there or what but here it costs around $200 to have it drained.
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Old 08-20-2008, 03:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Location: Central Central Florida
I do understand the basics. I'm just not sure how the storm water would get into the tank. We don't have sewers here but the homes sit high and have deep trenches on all four sides that are nowhere near the actual tank.

Oh and no sump pump. I did call the septic company and was told they've received a phenomenal amount of calls about the same thing. It might be a while before I receive a callback.
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Jewels, let me see if I can paint a better picture than Plaid.

There is a tank buried in the ground. It has two sets of pipes, one set that leads into it from the house and mounted up high on the tank and one set that leads out into the yard to allow water to drain that is lower than the other. What's happened is that there's been so much rain that (for our purposes here) the ground has gotten so saturated that water not only has stopped flowing out of the tank but that it's started to flow backwards into the tank. As the tank fills, you run the risk of water flowing back up into your house. Normally that's not a problem because the pipes from the house are set high enough up that water never reaches them.

If sewage does come back in, it will be through the pipes and not through the walls. There's nothing that the septic tank folks could do now anyway, especially with the ground so wet. If they have to drive on to your lawn to get to the tank, there's a good chance the truck would get stuck. So you basically have to wait for the water to get absorbed into the ground, which will happen over the next few days, barring another storm (or the return of Fay).

It sucks, but that's the deal. Hopefully I helped at least a little.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Location: Central Central Florida
You did, Jazz. Thanks. I didn't even realize the water was draining out from the tank (duh!?!? ) to provide an opportunity for the ground water to seep in there.

Although it's still not over here, last night I noticed the light had gone out again. There were strong winds only for an hour or two and once the ground was able to absorb a little of the standing water, the emergency light went out.

According to everything I was able to find online :skeptic: everything should be okay when that light goes out itself.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Jewels, I'm a bit surprised that you're having this problem on such a new system. Given that the light went out again, you should probably wait until the crisis point is over (a few weeks) and have someone look at it. I don't remember if your house is new construction or not, but if it is, you should contact the builder and have him handle this. If its not, well, you know to have the system inspected in the next few months.
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:00 AM   #7 (permalink)
Living in a Warmer Insanity
 
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Here's what your septic system most likely looks likes:



That outlet leads to a drain field with likely several absorption trenches. Absorption trenches are a couple feet wide and depending on the size of your house, number of bathrooms could be 2, 4, 6 or even more and 20-30 feet long. If you do end up having the guys out to pump your tank make sure you do not have them drive over the drain field. The drain field is likely made up of glorified perforated PVC type pipe. If they crush those pipes with the weight of their truck you're going to need repairs. These repairs are going to cost a hell of a lot more then getting that tank pumped. If the guys that come out are actual septic system professionals they'll know this and will likely be able to look at your yard and know where the drain field is, or have a tool (a thin stainless steel bar) they push in the ground to find the trench piping. The half finished house I bought I could tell where the drain field was by simply looking at the yard. Erma Bombeck was kind of right, the grass is actually greener over the septic drain field.

Right now by the sound of it your system simple can not flow correctly. There just no where for the outlet material to leave the system. This can happen if if you have no standing water above ground. If the water table in the area is even near the surface and rises above the system outlet your system will back up. Speaking of water tables, it's completely possible once the flooding resided the system will begin working on it's own and the tank will not need to be pumped. It's completely possible once the drain field begins to drain the tank level will begin to go down and the system will begin working fine again.

On having your tanked pumped. I've had two houses in the last 20 years. Built one and finished the second (bought it from a guy that got tried of living in a half finished house) they both had septic systems. In 20 year I never pumped my tank once. There several products out there that will help keep your tank flowing smoothly. Rid-x is popular but I'm honestly not that impressed with them. Rid-x claims if your tank needs pumped and you use their product they'll pay for the pumping. I've known two people who tried to take them up on that and both times Rid-x found a reason not to do it. I think one guy didn't keep a written record on how much and when he added the stuff to his tank and the other guy didn't save all his receipts so he had no way of proving he'd been buying and using the stuff. For at least 15 years I added a cup of baker yeast to my system every other month. If you do this make sure you get real bakers yeast, from a bakery. I've been told there's a difference between what you buy on the shelf and what a professional bakery uses. I'm not sure if that's true- but I got my yeast from a bakery and never had to pump. Another key to tank up keep is what you put in it. Limit paper products, you can even buy tank friendly toilet paper. Also don't put fat down your toilet of sink disposable. Veggies and other organic food items down the disposable are fine, but fat and grease will clog the system.

Best of luck, hope life gets back to normal for you soon.
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Last edited by Tully Mars; 08-21-2008 at 05:09 AM.. Reason: Too many tpyo's even for me.
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Location: Central Central Florida
Wow, thanks for all the info!

As I said, the light went out on its own last night. The system has always seemed to be working just fine. And yes, I can clearly see where the tank is. When we moved in, the area was brown but now it's become more green the longer we've been here (just over two months now).

Jazz, the system is over a year old but hadn't been used. The completed house was vacant/unsold for nearly a year. The builder sold me the property "as is" but has been great in helping me out and coming over to help me out. They also gave me a "2/10" warranty at closing, but of course flood damage isn't covered.

I think I'm okay, but I will definitely have it checked at once I have a month's income in my bank account. The company did have someone check it just last month, so the alarm trip had to be due to the flooding.

And I just put this stuff in last week as a preventive measure:
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Last edited by jewels; 08-21-2008 at 05:29 AM..
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
Living in a Warmer Insanity
 
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Location: Yucatan, Mexico
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels View Post
Wow, thanks for all the info!

As I said, the light went out on its own last night. The system has always seemed to be working just fine. And yes, I can clearly see where the tank is. When we moved in, the area was brown but now it's become more green the longer we've been here (just over two months now).

Jazz, the system is over a year old but hadn't been used. The completed house was vacant/unsold for nearly a year. The builder sold me the property "as is" but has been great in helping me out and coming over to help me out. They also gave me a "2/10" warranty at closing, but of course flood damage isn't covered.

I think I'm okay, but I will definitely have it checked at once I have a month's income in my bank account. The company did have someone check it just last month, so the alarm trip had to be due to the flooding.

And I just put this stuff in last week as a preventive measure:
I never heard of CLR septic Tx. But I use their regular CLR stuff down here for all kinds of stuff and it works good. If you like it keep using it. If it comes with a guaranty that they'll pump your system if you ever need, save your receipts and keep a journal of when and how much you add. Also find out the size of the tank. The label states that's good for a 1500 gal. system. I would imagine that's fine for a standard single family system. But if you bought Trumps PB house (or something like it) your system might be larger then 1500 gal.

If the system is that new I'd bet your tank is filled with 95% water. Once the water table returns to normal, or even near normal your system will work fine. You only need to have your system pumped if it's full of sludge. Or of course some foreign material. So I guess it's possible during the flooding the drain field could have collapsed or allowed soil to block the outlet. If that happened then you're going to need to get someone out to repair the system. Unless of course you'd like to dig down and unblock the outlet. I'd pass and let a professional deal with the shit, literally. If the outlet is blocked and they unblock it then offer to pump the tank I'd pass. 99% sure it's full of water and once the system begins flowing normally again that water will not be an issue.
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Last edited by Tully Mars; 08-21-2008 at 06:04 AM..
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Location: Central Central Florida
Since they still haven't called, I'm going to see if I can get them to just take a quick peek without charging me when they do call. I think it's okay though. I'm assuming ? I'd see a symptom if it was full of sludge. I can't lift the tops to the things (I don't know what they are) that they use to get in there or I'd check it myself.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
Living in a Warmer Insanity
 
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Location: Yucatan, Mexico
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels View Post
Since they still haven't called, I'm going to see if I can get them to just take a quick peek without charging me when they do call. I think it's okay though. I'm assuming ? I'd see a symptom if it was full of sludge. I can't lift the tops to the things (I don't know what they are) that they use to get in there or I'd check it myself.
It doesn't take long for a system to fill mainly with water, or what ends up being call "Liquid Effluent." After a couple months of showers and flushing the toilets the tank fills mainly with liquids (mostly gray water.) Taking the tops off isn't going to tell you much, IMO. Look at the diagram I first posted. The way the system works is the solids sink to the bottom and end up being eaten by bacteria (which is what that CLR stuff likely contains) then solids are turn into smaller, near liquid, particles float to the top and then exit the tank to the drain field. Those tiny particles and liquids contain a high % of nitrogen. That's why the grass is greener over your drain field. So basically for the system to work correctly the tank need to be near full.


This is my understanding of the science of it. I could be wrong. It could be enzymes and not bacteria. Or it could be something entirely different. But the basics are the solids are turned into liquids, they float to the top and exit to the drain field via the out put. If there is no blockage at the out put and the drain field is not damaged your system will begin working again on is own most likely. That wouldn't happen until the water table lowers below the output and the drain field. The flooding can appear to be gone and the ground can still be saturated for days depending on the type of soil you have.

Speaking of soil type, you don't have a sand filter system do you?
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Location: Central Central Florida
I don't think so. It was described to me in basic layman's terminology and since I wasn't planning on becoming an expert, most of it went in one ear and out the other.

I do recall something about a two-part system and that something helps ensure the bacteria that eat the "sludge" and turn it to liquid, but that may have just been his way of simplifying it for me.

The property is built high. There are deep ditches (I'd guesstimate about 2 - 4 feet deep) surrounding the property which had been full and into the street last night. Right now, the ditches are back down to about 3/4 full, so I think something similar would be true for the septic area as well.
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Old 08-21-2008, 10:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
Living in a Warmer Insanity
 
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Location: Yucatan, Mexico
A sand filter is a different animal, just wanted to make sure. Doesn't sound like it. If you had one you'd see an above ground (likely round) cement structure. It would look a lot like a pool, just full of sand.

The two part system could simply mean it has a tank and a drain field.

As for the ditches being near empty. I'd say that's a good sign. But depending on your soil type (and I'm not expert on soil) the ground could easily still be saturated. The ditch drains in at least one direction so the water has an easy exit. Once the ground is saturated with water it can take days (maybe longer) for the water level to return to normal. Think of it like this- if you had a sponge full of water and left it on the drain board next to your sink the drain board would dry quickly while the sponge might take days to dry.
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