New Home Building... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 05:36 AM

We are going to be building a new home. We are in the process of buying the land right now. I hear it can go very smoothly, or it can be excruciating. I would greatly prefer the "smoothly" option. So far--only an offer on the land has been placed--nothing else except an idea of the basic home we'd like--none of the details and no builder, yet. Does anyone have any advise on the "process?" What TO do--what NOT to do?

shakran · 02-03-2006, 05:59 AM

get hold of a prospective architect's and builder's clients and go talk to them. See if they're pissed.

Be prepared to go to the construction site EVERY DAY to check the work that was done that day. Inspect it VERY carefully. Try to find a friend that's already built a house - they'll have a better idea what to look for. Builders love to cut corners wherever possible, and you have to conduct daily inspections to make sure they don't get away with it.

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

get hold of a prospective architect's and builder's clients and go talk to them. See if they're pissed.

Be prepared to go to the construction site EVERY DAY to check the work that was done that day. Inspect it VERY carefully. Try to find a friend that's already built a house - they'll have a better idea what to look for. Builders love to cut corners wherever possible, and you have to conduct daily inspections to make sure they don't get away with it.

The builder we're considering will be our next door neighbor...his house would be just east of ours. Do you think that is a good or bad thing?

The_Jazz · 02-03-2006, 06:04 AM

First of all, congratulations! I hope that you'll enjoy your new home for years to come!

First you need to figure out exactly what it is you want - # of stories, # of bedrooms and bathrooms and a basic idea of the layout that you want. You can either take these to an architect and have them draw up plans to take to a general contractor or you can find a design/build firm that will take care of everything. You might also find a contractor that has already has designs that you like and that would put in any customizations that you want, but this may be difficult to do without having to get new drawings stamped by an architect. Finally, you can just hire a contractor to use plans that they already have on hand that are acceptable to you that don't need any alteration.

Just so you know, ever time an architect has to redraw things or recertify the changes, it's another few thousand dollars in the bucket, so knowing exactly what you want up front is pretty important if you're working with a tight budget.

Once you've decided what you want, you need to decide who is going to build it. With a design/build firm, that decision is already made for you, and that can take some pressure off and might also save some money. If you are hiring a general contractor yourself, make sure to get recommendations from around the area before you start interviewing anyone. They will most likely subcontract out most if not all of the work, so you need to know what they will be doing with their own crew and what will be subcontracted out.

Here are contractors that I would stay away from - your buddy down the street who used to be a carpenter but is now an accountant, a fireman who moonlights as a contractor, anyone who is new to the business and will be subcontracting everything out. Contactors that are not going to have a supervisor on the job site for most of the build are going to cause you big headaches down the road, and while I'm sure that there are exceptions to these examples that I've listed, they'll be few and far between. A good general contractor is going to be doing this as a full time job and won't be distracted by non-construction issues where they'll be away from the jobsite doing nothing construction related. Don't be afraid to get references and discuss the quality of the work.

You also need to make sure that not only is your general contractor insured but that every single subcontractor that comes on to your property is insured with absolutely no exceptions. You need to make sure that the general is carrying general liability insurance including products/completed operations coverage with no residential exclusion, especially if you are in CA, NV, WA, OR, AZ, TX, FL, SC, NY or CO. If they build something correctly, you want to make sure that they will have the ability to pay you for any damages that are not corrected. If the GC has any employees, you need to make sure that they are carrying Workers Compensation coverage. If they don't have any employess working on the site, then you need to require that all of the subcontractors carry WC coverage. Finally, you need to ask for builders risk coverage, which will cover the house while it's under construction if a fire breaks out, a storm comes up, etc. How do you find all this out? It's pretty simple - ask them for evidence of coverage in the form of a certificate of insurance. It should be no problem at all for them to produce this for you. While you're at it, you should probably also ask to be named as an additional insured on the general liability and workers compensation (if any). You should also ask for all of this to be inserted into the contract that you sign with them.

This should be enough to get you started! Good luck and enjoy it!

The_Jazz · 02-03-2006, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

get hold of a prospective architect's and builder's clients and go talk to them. See if they're pissed.

Be prepared to go to the construction site EVERY DAY to check the work that was done that day. Inspect it VERY carefully. Try to find a friend that's already built a house - they'll have a better idea what to look for. Builders love to cut corners wherever possible, and you have to conduct daily inspections to make sure they don't get away with it.

Unless you're a contractor or a certified inspector, this is probably a waste of time. You most likely won't know what to look for. For instance, do you know what a properly constructed joint should look like? What is the proper rise and run numbers for the HVAC plumbing? If the slab has pretension cables, what is the proper load and what did the contractor actually use? The local building inspector will be paying lots of visits to the site, and they should catch most of the major mistakes.

If you are worried about this, the I suggest hiring a construction consultant. It will cost you more, but they will be able to do inspect the home on a daily or weekly basis depending on what you want. As far as the builder being next door, it will make him a lot more accessable to you if there's something wrong. However, he will most likely refer major warranty work back to the subcontractor that did it, so in the end, I think that this is a neutral. As I stressed in my first post, I would be very careful about choosing a builder and make sure to talk to all of his references.

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 06:15 AM

Wow! Super advice...Thanks!
We have a basic plan of what we want like you suggest...should we know the specifics we want--right down to paint and carpet and light/bathroom fixtures, or do the contractors give you "options?"

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

However, he will most likely refer major warranty work back to the subcontractor that did it, so in the end, I think that this is a neutral. As I stressed in my first post, I would be very careful about choosing a builder and make sure to talk to all of his references.

Yeah...the reason we are considering him is not that he's next door--he's done several of the houses in the subdivision and the smallish-town talk of his work is good. I have an aquaintance who lives in the area and he built her house and she was pleased.

shakran · 02-03-2006, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Unless you're a contractor or a certified inspector, this is probably a waste of time. You most likely won't know what to look for. For instance, do you know what a properly constructed joint should look like? What is the proper rise and run numbers for the HVAC plumbing? If the slab has pretension cables, what is the proper load and what did the contractor actually use? The local building inspector will be paying lots of visits to the site, and they should catch most of the major mistakes.

But those aren't the kind of things you're looking for. Yes, leave the construction requirements to the building inspector. You're looking for stuff like the flooring installer saying "oops, cut that vinyl floor in the wrong place. Aww fuckit, run the seam across the middle of the floor in the traffic pattern even though that means in 2 years it'll be peeling up." You're looking for crooked outlets, crooked moulding, bad paint jobs, creaky floors, off-centered fixtures, fixtures that you ordered but that have been replaced by something cheaper, the wrong color/style of material being used, etc. The building inspector isn't gonna know that you ordered fancy Kohler faucets but the plumber got a deal on Deltas and pocketed the extra money.

And if you fail to catch this stuff before closing, you're pretty much out of luck.

As for the builder being your neighbor. . .that really doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on the quality of the build. If he's a good builder who uses good subs, it's gonna be a good house no matter where he lives. If he's a crappy builder who uses bad subs, he's not generally gonna be able to suddenly turn out award-winning construction just because you're his neighbor.

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 07:06 AM

I'm also interested in personal experiences--like you had a fantastic time making your new home--what do you think contributed to that great experience...or...Would you rather suffer disembowelment by means of a rusty spoon than go through the hell of building a house again. What do you think made it soooo bad?

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

But those aren't the kind of things you're looking for. Yes, leave the construction requirements to the building inspector. You're looking for stuff like the flooring installer saying "oops, cut that vinyl floor in the wrong place. Aww fuckit, run the seam across the middle of the floor in the traffic pattern even though that means in 2 years it'll be peeling up." You're looking for crooked outlets, crooked moulding, bad paint jobs, creaky floors, off-centered fixtures, fixtures that you ordered but that have been replaced by something cheaper, the wrong color/style of material being used, etc. The building inspector isn't gonna know that you ordered fancy Kohler faucets but the plumber got a deal on Deltas and pocketed the extra money.

And if you fail to catch this stuff before closing, you're pretty much out of luck.

As for the builder being your neighbor. . .that really doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on the quality of the build. If he's a good builder who uses good subs, it's gonna be a good house no matter where he lives. If he's a crappy builder who uses bad subs, he's not generally gonna be able to suddenly turn out award-winning construction just because you're his neighbor.

Yeah...that makes sense. Don't worry--I will probably be camping out front with a lawn chair and a long island ice tea watching the progress when the time comes!

About the subcontractors--do you ask for a list of the people they employ through subcontracting?

The_Jazz · 02-03-2006, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

But those aren't the kind of things you're looking for. Yes, leave the construction requirements to the building inspector. You're looking for stuff like the flooring installer saying "oops, cut that vinyl floor in the wrong place. Aww fuckit, run the seam across the middle of the floor in the traffic pattern even though that means in 2 years it'll be peeling up." You're looking for crooked outlets, crooked moulding, bad paint jobs, creaky floors, off-centered fixtures, fixtures that you ordered but that have been replaced by something cheaper, the wrong color/style of material being used, etc. The building inspector isn't gonna know that you ordered fancy Kohler faucets but the plumber got a deal on Deltas and pocketed the extra money.

And if you fail to catch this stuff before closing, you're pretty much out of luck.

All of this is stuff that should be picked up in the final walk-through(s). When we built our house, we were there 6 or 7 times in the weeks before closing. Your home inspector (pretty much required by any lendor) is going to pick up anything that you missed. Your original note would have Felicity over there every day during the construction process with no prior training or knowledge of what's right and wrong. What you're describing above are minor issues and easily fixed. Most flooring contractors are going to make sure that they don't run a seam down the middle of a linoleum floor because they're going to know that they'll just have to do it again. The entire point of both of my posts was to help everyone avoid true construction defects and major problems that can directly affect the resale value of the home.

You don't necessarily need a list of the subcontractors since it's the GC's job to arrange for them to be there at the right time with the right qualifications. Again, you need to make sure that the GC is protecting you by requiring that his subs have the right insurance coverage, because if they aren't carrying Workers Comp coverage and get injured on the job site, they can file suit against the GC and you for not providing a safe place to work. And I can just about guarantee you that if the guy is hurt enough, you will end up paying. Like it or not, it's the way the world works. Just make sure that you have your lawyer go through the contract before you sign it, and make sure that whatever version you sign has the corrections included.

Personally, building our house was a gigantic pain in the ass for me, but that's because I really didn't care which shade of white the ceiling in the upstairs guest room was going to be or whether the spindles in the stair rail were beaten iron or wood. Once we got the basic layout done with all the outlets and phone jacks noted, I was ready to be done. Unfortunately, my wife let me off easy for our wedding and she wasn't about to make that "mistake" again, so I had to suffer through paint swatches, door knobs, fixtures and ceiling fans. If you asked her, though, it was a fantastic experience. For me, it was non-revenue generating stress.

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Unfortunately, my wife let me off easy for our wedding and she wasn't about to make that "mistake" again, so I had to suffer through paint swatches, door knobs, fixtures and ceiling fans. If you asked her, though, it was a fantastic experience. For me, it was non-revenue generating stress.

I kinda wish my husband had that attitude. I have definite opinions and so does he. He's gonna want to have a say in every step (just like me)--luckily, our tastes are pretty similar...I don't think the choice of bathroom fixtures will lead to divorce court--but I'd still like to be able to just "pick"--it's a girl thing.

NoSoup · 02-03-2006, 12:06 PM

Well, it seems you have already gotten plenty of good advice on the construction portion of it - if you have any questions regarding the construction loan/mortgage or how any of the funding works, I can help you out there

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSoup

Well, it seems you have already gotten plenty of good advice on the construction portion of it - if you have any questions regarding the construction loan/mortgage or how any of the funding works, I can help you out there

Ooooh...yes...need that info, big-time! Thanks!

We're covering the land purchase with a home equity loan...then when we go to build....what's the process? Just get a new home building loan...start building the sucker, put our current house up for sale a couple of months before the new one is finished and hope we sell at the exact right time so we aren't "homeless" or carrying two mortgages for too long because we had to roll the construction loan into a second first mortgage...??? Any suggestions would be so appreciated! Please, tell me what you know, because really--I know nothing about it.

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 12:21 PM

BTW--Both hub and I have great credit and our current house will sell for about 2/3 of what the new home will cost to build. And the equity we have is from a 5 year old appraisal when we re-financed and several improvements on the current house have been made.

Felicity · 02-03-2006, 04:51 PM

On another note--does anyone have info about "Condominium Land Units?" The "property lines" are the unit divisions. What is the difference between a a land development that is a regular subdivision, and a condominium land unit development? Why would a developer choose to do it that way?

Rodney · 02-05-2006, 06:23 PM

Just a note about contractors and subs: our home wasn't built specifically for us, but it was new, and the developers were also the general contractors. And we walked through that thing and found problems hear and there and all we heard was, "Those darn subcontractors.... I just don't know what was wrong with them." And _no_ suggestion that they, the developers and GCs, might do anything about it. Until we pushed them. They simply tried to lay it all off on somebody else. We eventually hired a home inspector to go over the place to make up a laundry list of things for them to fix. And then _we_ had to make arrangements with the subs to come out and fix the problems, not the contractors. Never buy a new home from surfers, that's what I say. :-) But that's probably not a problem in Michigan!

So I would suggest that, if practical, you do have somebody walk through and make sure all is going well, before the particular sub who makes a bad mistake packs up and heads off on vacation for three months and the GC tries to you it'll have to wait until he returns. Moreover, the GCs who built our house did make changes to the plans on the fly (we have the plans, complete with corrections), resulting in some curious design features. And there's a door on the outside of the house that's not in the plans that leads into a utility enclosure that's not in the plans and serves no purpose. According to the GC, he just went to lunch one day and the subs had put in the door and enclosure for no good reason. Shrug.

So these are some of the things that can happen on a job. And I think it would behoove your or someone representing you to stay in close touch with what is going on so that 1) things that were supposed to be done, are done well, and 2) on-the-fly decisions that change the original plans are _not_ made without your consultation.

The_Jazz · 02-06-2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney

Just a note about contractors and subs: our home wasn't built specifically for us, but it was new, and the developers were also the general contractors. And we walked through that thing and found problems hear and there and all we heard was, "Those darn subcontractors.... I just don't know what was wrong with them." And _no_ suggestion that they, the developers and GCs, might do anything about it. Until we pushed them. They simply tried to lay it all off on somebody else. We eventually hired a home inspector to go over the place to make up a laundry list of things for them to fix. And then _we_ had to make arrangements with the subs to come out and fix the problems, not the contractors. Never buy a new home from surfers, that's what I say. :-)

So I would suggest that, if practical, you do have somebody walk through and make sure all is going well, before the particular sub who makes a bad mistake packs up and heads off on vacation for three months and the GC tries to you it'll have to wait until he returns. ... And there's a door on the outside of the house that's not in the plans that leads into a utility enclosure that's not in the plans and serves no purpose. According to the GC, he just went to lunch one day and the subs had put in the door and enclosure for no good reason. Shrug.

If anyone following this thread and its companion has been wondering why the state that a building is in would make a difference in construction and why some states are more litigious for general contractors, this is an excellent example. Rodney, you shouldn't have had to track down the subcontractors or really do anything other than let the GC/developer know when you be available for the sub to stop by to look at the problem and possibly fix it. As for your useless door, it obviously isn't going to harm the home or its value, but any GC who was paying attention at all would have either made the sub fix the problem or have them fill in the hole. It sounds like you ended up dealing with someone who is new to the process and doesn't take it seriously.

Sorry to spout off more insurance facts that no one other than myself is probably interested in, but the average insurance cost (cost of the workers compensation [workers injured on the job site] plus the general liability [protection from lawsuits brought by nonemployees]) to build a house in Illinois is roughly $12,000, which most of that coming from the workers comp. In California, the average cost is between $50,000 and $60,000 depending on where in the state it is. That number is evenly split. Part of the reason is that workers comp is a very expensive thing in CA, but it's also the most litigious state in the union right now.

NoSoup · 02-06-2006, 12:08 PM

Alright, I replied in the Ask the Loan Officer Thread. but will copy it here for you

I figured other people may be interested in reading about construction loans, and may not find it in here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSoup

Construction Loans typically work a bit differently than conventional mortgages, they are more similar to a Home Equity Line of Credit.

Basically, once the construction loan is closed, there will be an initial dispursement of funds to the contractor. For Example, say you have a $300,000.00 construction loan, the builder will typically want money to start. Say he asks for $60,000.00. You will close the loan and take an inital "draw" of $60,000.00. Normally, during this initial draw, you will be required to purchase the land you are building on. However, in your case, you already own the property, so it doesn't matter. The builder will then spend that money, and down the road ask for another draw. Here in Wisconsin, you have very little to do with any of that, the builder simply works with the Title Company to get the funds when required.

As far as your payment is concerned, contruction loans are typically interest only based on the amount you currently have borrowed. So, in the case above, your payments would be based on a $60,000.00 balance, interest only, until the builder requests more. This should help you pay your existing mortgage, as your payments will be lower than if it was amortized over a specific period of time.

Be careful, however, as often there will be a set number of free draws and the title company may charge you for additional ones. I have seen fees for this range from $50.00 to $500.00 per draw. Each draw can be multiple checks, but each seperate instance of the builder requesting money is considered a draw.

To clarify, your builder requests a draw for $60,000.00 on March 1st. He wants $30,000.00 for himself, $20,000.00 for the excavators, $5,000.00 for the utility company, and $5,000.00 for permits. This would only be considered one draw. However, if he went on March 1st and got himself a $30,000.00 check, March 3rd to get a $20,000.00 check, etc. they would all be considered seperate draws.

Once you have completed your home, you'll likely have to refinance into a different type of mortgage. The only exception would be if you happened to utilize a "One-time Close" construction loan program.

Depending on how quickly homes sell in your area, I would plan accordingly. Ideally, you'll be able to time it just perfect so that you can move out of your old home and sell it just as your new one is finished. However, it is very unlikely that it happens that way. Even if it does, it is likely that the buyer of your home will take that into account when putting the offer in, and you may potentially get less than what you would have for your home.

One option you may want to consider is giving your current home plenty of time to sell. If, in fact, it does sell before your new home is completed, would it be possible to stay at a friends or relatives house for a short period? If it isn't are there any apartments that offer a month-to-month lease in your area? You would want to make sure you keep in mind the cost of the apartment/storage vs. what you would be paying on your mortgage or how much less the seller would offer if they had to wait to move in, but often times it will be better to be "homeless" for a brief period rather than carrying an extra mortgage payment until it sells.

Another advantage of selling your home prior to your home being completed would be that you have the cash in hand, and can apply it to the new property before you refinance it into a standard 15 or 30 year mortgage. Providing you have the equity, you should be able to reduce-possibly even eliminate- private mortgage insurance.

Hope that helps a bit, if you have any questions, let me know!

shortynickel · 02-06-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

But those aren't the kind of things you're looking for. Yes, leave the construction requirements to the building inspector. You're looking for stuff like the flooring installer saying "oops, cut that vinyl floor in the wrong place. Aww fuckit, run the seam across the middle of the floor in the traffic pattern even though that means in 2 years it'll be peeling up." You're looking for crooked outlets, crooked moulding, bad paint jobs, creaky floors, off-centered fixtures, fixtures that you ordered but that have been replaced by something cheaper, the wrong color/style of material being used, etc. The building inspector isn't gonna know that you ordered fancy Kohler faucets but the plumber got a deal on Deltas and pocketed the extra money.

And if you fail to catch this stuff before closing, you're pretty much out of luck.

As for the builder being your neighbor. . .that really doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on the quality of the build. If he's a good builder who uses good subs, it's gonna be a good house no matter where he lives. If he's a crappy builder who uses bad subs, he's not generally gonna be able to suddenly turn out award-winning construction just because you're his neighbor.

I would be doing this when/if the day ever comes for me.

the only thing i have to add is: it shouldnt cost that much more but i would suggest having coax cable(tv), including cat5e or cat6 cables(computers/internet) run to every room that there is a possibility that you will have a tv or a computer in those rooms. it will make things easier since you will only need to run a cable from the outlet to ur tv/computer and would be a good selling point if/when you would move again.

shakran · 02-06-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

All of this is stuff that should be picked up in the final walk-through(s). When we built our house, we were there 6 or 7 times in the weeks before closing. Your home inspector (pretty much required by any lendor) is going to pick up anything that you missed.

And this will, maybe, work fine in a state that actually regulates its residential construction industry. In many states, there isn't a whole lot of regulation. Contractors don't even have to be licensed. And if you wait till the final walkthru, after the house is already built, to catch something that you could have caught 2 months ago, the odds are greatly against you that you will get the problem fixed without having to spend extra money.

In fact there have been actual court cases where the ruling has been, in laymans terms "they got it close enough, the house is functional, the contractor doesn't have to fix it."

Personally when I build a house I don't want to be on the wrong end of a "tough shit" situation. That's one of the reasons I will be inspecting their work on a very regular basis. The other reason is that if they see me there all the time they're less likely to think they can get away with shit.

DDDDave · 02-07-2006, 07:49 AM

Felicity,

As you can already tell you are in for a real adventure.....there will be lot's of decisions to be made. Keep a journal, there will be too much to remember. Take pictures along the way, that will really help too. You only build your first home once.

I was a home builder for ten years here in Florida and one tip that I always told my buyers was this....When the house is framed and just before the insulation and drywall go in, take an afternoon and videotape the entire house. Go slow, not just a walking tour, something that you can view later in slo-mo. Houses look so small when there are no actual walls and you can see from one end of the house to the other. The reason for the video is so you can see where all the wiring, ductwork and pipes are in the walls and ceilings. You will want to make changes in your furniture layout and will wonder 'Is there a cable line on that wall?' or 'Could I make a pass-thru over there?'. You will see where the electric lines run and will know if you could add an outlet here or there.

Also, put phone and cable wiring in every room of the house. The builder usually includes 2 or 3 as standard, but spend the extra money for the additional runs. You never know, and it is an expensive PITA to add them later. Also talk to your builder about where your water heater will be located. If it is far from your kitchen or baths, be sure to include a 'hot water return' line. Your builder will know what I mean.

Good luck and keep us informed on your progress.

micah67 · 02-07-2006, 02:53 PM

I documented the building of my house a few years ago and have step-by-step pictures and notes on my web site: http://www.lastdot.net/ I list all the options we bought (including post-building comments on the options), notes at several key phases, things they did wrong, things we didn't catch in time, etc.

One step I'm very happy we took was to take hi-resolution photos of each wall prior to the dry wall being put up. I've been able to reference back to these photos many times over the year to determine where wires and cross-studs are when making upgrades. I hot-linked the photos to a map of the floorplan (also on the web site).

Anyway, check it out. Maybe it'll save you some headaches later or give you some ideas in advance.

shortynickel · 02-07-2006, 07:22 PM

sorry if i am threadjacking but damn micah67, I am very jealous!! very nice pics of the house!

Rodney · 02-10-2006, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

If anyone following this thread and its companion has been wondering why the state that a building is in would make a difference in construction and why some states are more litigious for general contractors, this is an excellent example. Rodney, you shouldn't have had to track down the subcontractors or really do anything other than let the GC/developer know when you be available for the sub to stop by to look at the problem and possibly fix it. As for your useless door, it obviously isn't going to harm the home or its value, but any GC who was paying attention at all would have either made the sub fix the problem or have them fill in the hole. It sounds like you ended up dealing with someone who is new to the process and doesn't take it seriously.

Yep, that's it exactly. I did consult a lawyer, and he said it'd be more trouble than it was worth to try to force them to do anything legally. He wrote them a letter to throw a scare into them, and that's about when we started getting even minimal response from them. California _is_ a litigious state, but how much are you willing to spend simply to make somebody act professionally? The actual fixes we wanted were not hard to do nor especialy expensive; we just wanted them seen to.

I'll tell you how bad independent homebuilders are out in my area:

One of the few goofs that our GCs caught by themselves was that when the central heating unit was installed, there wasn't room to build a structure above it to hold the filter -- there's a name for it, which I've forgotten. Ooops.

Well eventually, we ended up with a nonstandard solution -- the filter's on the uptake vent on the second floor that the heater draws its air from. When the home inspector we paid for came through, he approved the fix -- and told us that indeed, in many new homes built by local contractors, central heating systems were being installed without housings for a filter. "They run five years, then burn out," he told us.

Geez.

The_Jazz · 02-10-2006, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney

I'll tell you how bad independent homebuilders are out in my area:

One of the few goofs that our GCs caught by themselves was that when the central heating unit was installed, there wasn't room to build a structure above it to hold the filter -- there's a name for it, which I've forgotten. Ooops.

Well eventually, we ended up with a nonstandard solution -- the filter's on the uptake vent on the second floor that the heater draws its air from. When the home inspector we paid for came through, he approved the fix -- and told us that indeed, in many new homes built by local contractors, central heating systems were being installed without housings for a filter. "They run five years, then burn out," he told us.

Geez.

You got off lucky. There's very little that you could tell me about how shoddily some homes are built that would surprise me. The converse is also true - some people will file suit for the stupidest thing. There's a condo association in Vegas that filed suit because the tops of the door jams weren't painted and the fences that only had 2 coats of stain instead of 3. The best part is that the contractor was never notified of any of these issues with any units. It cost them - or more accurately their insurance company - about $50,000 in lawyer fees to get out of the claim.

It's crazy everywhere on the West Coast when it comes to construction.

thingstodo · 02-13-2006, 03:57 AM

Ditto on the construction loan. You don't want to tie your current home into the new one. Also, have someone draw up COMPLETE construction plans including specs for everythng. Have everything bidded out - everything. Any detail you overlook could end up costing you more than you expected.

Your friend may be good but it leaves the door open for misunderstanding from the friendship, so I urge caution there!

02-03-2006, 05:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
Felicity Upright	New Home Building... We are going to be building a new home. We are in the process of buying the land right now. I hear it can go very smoothly, or it can be excruciating. I would greatly prefer the "smoothly" option. So far--only an offer on the land has been placed--nothing else except an idea of the basic home we'd like--none of the details and no builder, yet. Does anyone have any advise on the "process?" What TO do--what NOT to do?

02-03-2006, 06:15 AM	#6 (permalink)
Felicity Upright	Wow! Super advice...Thanks! We have a basic plan of what we want like you suggest...should we know the specifics we want--right down to paint and carpet and light/bathroom fixtures, or do the contractors give you "options?" __________________ *I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much.* --Blessed Mother Teresa

02-03-2006, 07:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
Felicity Upright	I'm also interested in personal experiences--like you had a fantastic time making your new home--what do you think contributed to that great experience...or...Would you rather suffer disembowelment by means of a rusty spoon than go through the hell of building a house again. What do you think made it soooo bad? __________________ *I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much.* --Blessed Mother Teresa

02-03-2006, 12:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
NoSoup Non-Rookie Location: Green Bay, WI	Well, it seems you have already gotten plenty of good advice on the construction portion of it - if you have any questions regarding the construction loan/mortgage or how any of the funding works, I can help you out there __________________ I have an aura of reliability and good judgement. Just in case you were wondering...

02-03-2006, 12:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
Felicity Upright	BTW--Both hub and I have great credit and our current house will sell for about 2/3 of what the new home will cost to build. And the equity we have is from a 5 year old appraisal when we re-financed and several improvements on the current house have been made. __________________ *I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much.* --Blessed Mother Teresa Last edited by Felicity; 02-03-2006 at 12:24 PM..

02-03-2006, 05:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	get hold of a prospective architect's and builder's clients and go talk to them. See if they're pissed. Be prepared to go to the construction site EVERY DAY to check the work that was done that day. Inspect it VERY carefully. Try to find a friend that's already built a house - they'll have a better idea what to look for. Builders love to cut corners wherever possible, and you have to conduct daily inspections to make sure they don't get away with it.

02-03-2006, 06:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	First of all, congratulations! I hope that you'll enjoy your new home for years to come! First you need to figure out exactly what it is you want - # of stories, # of bedrooms and bathrooms and a basic idea of the layout that you want. You can either take these to an architect and have them draw up plans to take to a general contractor or you can find a design/build firm that will take care of everything. You might also find a contractor that has already has designs that you like and that would put in any customizations that you want, but this may be difficult to do without having to get new drawings stamped by an architect. Finally, you can just hire a contractor to use plans that they already have on hand that are acceptable to you that don't need any alteration. Just so you know, ever time an architect has to redraw things or recertify the changes, it's another few thousand dollars in the bucket, so knowing exactly what you want up front is pretty important if you're working with a tight budget. Once you've decided what you want, you need to decide who is going to build it. With a design/build firm, that decision is already made for you, and that can take some pressure off and might also save some money. If you are hiring a general contractor yourself, make sure to get recommendations from around the area before you start interviewing anyone. They will most likely subcontract out most if not all of the work, so you need to know what they will be doing with their own crew and what will be subcontracted out. Here are contractors that I would stay away from - your buddy down the street who used to be a carpenter but is now an accountant, a fireman who moonlights as a contractor, anyone who is new to the business and will be subcontracting everything out. Contactors that are not going to have a supervisor on the job site for most of the build are going to cause you big headaches down the road, and while I'm sure that there are exceptions to these examples that I've listed, they'll be few and far between. A good general contractor is going to be doing this as a full time job and won't be distracted by non-construction issues where they'll be away from the jobsite doing nothing construction related. Don't be afraid to get references and discuss the quality of the work. You also need to make sure that not only is your general contractor insured but that every single subcontractor that comes on to your property is insured with absolutely no exceptions. You need to make sure that the general is carrying general liability insurance including products/completed operations coverage with no residential exclusion, especially if you are in CA, NV, WA, OR, AZ, TX, FL, SC, NY or CO. If they build something correctly, you want to make sure that they will have the ability to pay you for any damages that are not corrected. If the GC has any employees, you need to make sure that they are carrying Workers Compensation coverage. If they don't have any employess working on the site, then you need to require that all of the subcontractors carry WC coverage. Finally, you need to ask for builders risk coverage, which will cover the house while it's under construction if a fire breaks out, a storm comes up, etc. How do you find all this out? It's pretty simple - ask them for evidence of coverage in the form of a certificate of insurance. It should be no problem at all for them to produce this for you. While you're at it, you should probably also ask to be named as an additional insured on the general liability and workers compensation (if any). You should also ask for all of this to be inserted into the contract that you sign with them. This should be enough to get you started! Good luck and enjoy it!

02-03-2006, 04:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
Felicity Upright	On another note--does anyone have info about "Condominium Land Units?" The "property lines" are the unit divisions. What is the difference between a a land development that is a regular subdivision, and a condominium land unit development? Why would a developer choose to do it that way? __________________ *I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much.* --Blessed Mother Teresa Last edited by Felicity; 02-03-2006 at 04:54 PM..

02-05-2006, 06:23 PM	#17 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Just a note about contractors and subs: our home wasn't built specifically for us, but it was new, and the developers were also the general contractors. And we walked through that thing and found problems hear and there and all we heard was, "Those darn subcontractors.... I just don't know what was wrong with them." And _no_ suggestion that they, the developers and GCs, might do anything about it. Until we pushed them. They simply tried to lay it all off on somebody else. We eventually hired a home inspector to go over the place to make up a laundry list of things for them to fix. And then _we_ had to make arrangements with the subs to come out and fix the problems, not the contractors. Never buy a new home from surfers, that's what I say. :-) But that's probably not a problem in Michigan! So I would suggest that, if practical, you do have somebody walk through and make sure all is going well, before the particular sub who makes a bad mistake packs up and heads off on vacation for three months and the GC tries to you it'll have to wait until he returns. Moreover, the GCs who built our house did make changes to the plans on the fly (we have the plans, complete with corrections), resulting in some curious design features. And there's a door on the outside of the house that's not in the plans that leads into a utility enclosure that's not in the plans and serves no purpose. According to the GC, he just went to lunch one day and the subs had put in the door and enclosure for no good reason. Shrug. So these are some of the things that can happen on a job. And I think it would behoove your or someone representing you to stay in close touch with what is going on so that 1) things that were supposed to be done, are done well, and 2) on-the-fly decisions that change the original plans are _not_ made without your consultation.

02-07-2006, 07:49 AM	#22 (permalink)
DDDDave Addict Location: Sarasota	Felicity, As you can already tell you are in for a real adventure.....there will be lot's of decisions to be made. Keep a journal, there will be too much to remember. Take pictures along the way, that will really help too. You only build your first home once. I was a home builder for ten years here in Florida and one tip that I always told my buyers was this....When the house is framed and just before the insulation and drywall go in, take an afternoon and videotape the entire house. Go slow, not just a walking tour, something that you can view later in slo-mo. Houses look so small when there are no actual walls and you can see from one end of the house to the other. The reason for the video is so you can see where all the wiring, ductwork and pipes are in the walls and ceilings. You will want to make changes in your furniture layout and will wonder 'Is there a cable line on that wall?' or 'Could I make a pass-thru over there?'. You will see where the electric lines run and will know if you could add an outlet here or there. Also, put phone and cable wiring in every room of the house. The builder usually includes 2 or 3 as standard, but spend the extra money for the additional runs. You never know, and it is an expensive PITA to add them later. Also talk to your builder about where your water heater will be located. If it is far from your kitchen or baths, be sure to include a 'hot water return' line. Your builder will know what I mean. Good luck and keep us informed on your progress. __________________ I am just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe... "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." - Thoreau "Nothing great was ever accomplished without enthusiasm" - Emerson

02-07-2006, 02:53 PM	#23 (permalink)
micah67 Thor Location: 33:08:12N 117:10:23W	I documented the building of my house a few years ago and have step-by-step pictures and notes on my web site: http://www.lastdot.net/ I list all the options we bought (including post-building comments on the options), notes at several key phases, things they did wrong, things we didn't catch in time, etc. One step I'm very happy we took was to take hi-resolution photos of each wall prior to the dry wall being put up. I've been able to reference back to these photos many times over the year to determine where wires and cross-studs are when making upgrades. I hot-linked the photos to a map of the floorplan (also on the web site). Anyway, check it out. Maybe it'll save you some headaches later or give you some ideas in advance. __________________ ~micah

02-07-2006, 07:22 PM	#24 (permalink)
shortynickel Addict Location: Central PA	sorry if i am threadjacking but damn micah67, I am very jealous!! very nice pics of the house! __________________ What type of... "Parents have forgotten how to be parents" Aaron Lewis "Get your ass back here, your a white boy walking thru the ghetto" - at the end of a bachalor party said to the bachalor while walking home.

02-13-2006, 03:57 AM	#27 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	Ditto on the construction loan. You don't want to tie your current home into the new one. Also, have someone draw up COMPLETE construction plans including specs for everythng. Have everything bidded out - everything. Any detail you overlook could end up costing you more than you expected. Your friend may be good but it leaves the door open for misunderstanding from the friendship, so I urge caution there! __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.