Daoust

So Canadians, what are your thoughts on the recently published Gomery Inquiry?

Myself, I think that Chretien is going to get off relatively scott-free, as people will forget about this in time... Martin is already scott-free, and he will continue to try to wear the teflon for as long as he can.

As far as I see it there are two losers in this whole thing.

1. The Liberal party, and I say this with an asterisk. They lose some credibility, they further lose their footing in Quebec, thereby almost permanently installing the PQ for the next 10 years. But they will probably continue to be the dominant party in this one party country because of the lack of a viable alternative. Politically speaking, the Liberal party could not have picked a better time in their history to have a scandal of this magnitude, because even if there is an election in 6 months, the Liberals should win because the Conservatives are too far right, and the NDP are too far left.

2. Because of the lack of voting options, the Canadian people are the biggest losers. Also because no matter what the outcome, the Canadian people will never see a dime of that wasted money. Paul Martin will just shrug his shoulders, maybe offer a word of condolence to the Canadian people, and then, like Pilate, wash his hands and say "I am innocent of this crime." The Canadian people will continue to take it up the ass, because we won't do anything to show the Liberals that we're really pissed off.

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highthief

Maybe we're not really pissed off?

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Lucifer

It's the same old story all over again. The rich and powerful take care of each other, and everyone else at the bottom of the pile has to bend over and take it. Like the first guy a couple of weeks back. Stole 1.5 million, and his sentence was he has to teach ethics at McGill???
WTF?

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- Job 30:29

1123, 6536, 5321

splck

Nothing much is going to happen because of this. Martin will call the election while saying how he cleaned up the corruption and the sad fact is lots of people will buy it.

We get the Gov we deserve... and sadly, we deserve the Liberals.

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nice line eh?

canuckguy

I only feel bad for paul martin, held in the wings for years in the liberal party, finally gets his chance, only to be screwed over. I don't blame him, I only blame the people who actually did the act.

highthief

I agree with that sentiment - I think a lot of people want to blame the Liberals in an indiscriminate fashion and whoever is in charge at the moment - that being Martin - will get the heat.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Quadraton

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

Martin got his powers on dubious terms, screwing over former Prime Minister Chretien and forcing him to step down prematurely. Fitting that he should bear the brunt of a scandal he apparently played no part in.

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"A witty saying proves nothing"
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BigBen

I'm not usually one to subscribe to conspiracy theories, but...

I honestly believe that the only reason this is news is because they got caught. I am sure that there is shit going on behind the scenes that would make my toe-hairs curl.

We need a different political party, kind of like a Liberal Version 2.0, where normal people could expect normal representation.

I know my MP's name, but what has he done for me? 2/3 of fuck all.

Gomery inquiry. How about a General Inquiry, opening everything up to close and painful scrutinization?

We can't let the Conservatives back in. Remember Kim and Brian? Remember the shit that they put us through?

The NDP is not fiscally responsible enough to be a contender. I fear that they will bankrupt the country to achieve their political agenda.

Yes, I vote. Yes, I care. Yes, I am frustrated by the state of politics. Hell, I bet j8ear and Pan could do a better job if they worked together!

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Quadraton

What's that old saying? It's not illegal unless you get caught

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"A witty saying proves nothing"
- Voltaire

james t kirk

I don't know what will happen to Chretien.

His legacy is now in tatters and he joins Brian Mulroney, perhaps even surpasses him as the all time corrupt Canadian Prime Minister. I don't think Chretien will go to jail. I really doubt he personally took any money out of the deal anyway. I think the entire sponsorship program started out with good intentions (to raise the profile of Canada within Quebec) Unfortunately, the road to hell is truly paved with good intentions. In watching Chretien on TV, I found his cavalier attitude towards Gomery insulting and condescenging. Like he was somehow above the law and did not have to give the commission it's due respect.

As for Martin, I actually think he's to be admired in all of this. He has since the begining done the right thing. He immediately cancelled the entire sponsorship program, he fired all those involved. He fired the heads of Canada Post and Via, and he launched the entire Gomery Commission at great political risk. There are many within his own party who were telling him not to launch a commission, but he decided to get in front of this thing. Chretien would never have done such a thing. He would have double talked, and avoided by any means possible anything that might have shed light on the situation.

The one thing that makes me laugh the hardest though is how all of the guys involved are all innocent.

Other than this Brault guy (who ran groupeaction) they have all professed great shock and disbelief at being fingered by Gomery. Given that, one must therefore believe that no-one did anything wrong. Not.

Of all the players, I find Brault the most interesting. He has basically not hid anything. He has admitted that he over charged, scammed, and gave kick backs to the Quebec liberal party. Amazing.

vox_rox

WTF?

What do you expect him to do? Martin, as with Cretien, as with Mulroney, all do the wrong thing over and over until they get caught. If you think Martin is innocent and has clean hands simply because he was not implicated in THIS thing, then you just have too much faith in the rich shipping magnate who worked (?!) his way to the top of the political arena. My god, what a load of crap.

I have voted in every election I was eligible to vote in since I turned 18, but in all honesty I find it leaving a more and more bitter taste in my mouth every time I stand behind one of those cardboard dividers to scribble and X in front of some crooks name. Why is it that I always feel my sphincter tighten ever so slightly when an election is called?

Out of the 400 or so politicians that I presently see in various houses at various levels of government, I think there may be about a dozen that are truly there for the right reasons, and have the integrity to represent their constituents, even in our badly unbalanced political system(s).

The rest are like Cretien, or Mulroney, or any of the rest of them. Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good, but the more I look for reasons to justify a positive attitude towards politicians, the more I get slapped upside the head. Fuck, a building doesn’t have to fall on me to see who's running the show and pocketing the dough.

It all comes down to three words - abuse of power - and they ALL DO IT.

And, we all vote for them, how fucking SICK IS THAT!?

Anarchy now!

Peace,

Pierre

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There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people.
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canuckguy

When there is the election called again its gonna be sad. I am so scared of Conservative win and what crazy stuff they will do. There like a religious party, but without the religion. There polices are geared for 1920's society and believes. Not to mention great use of our tax dollars, two elections in such a short period of time, and all the money gone to sponsorship waste.

james t kirk

You need to run for public office then to effect responsible change.

james t kirk

He could have NOT done what he did.

He had top liberals screaming at him not to hold a commission. He could have suffled guys off to be ambassadors in Denmark, he could have avoided the issue and left it up to the RCMP (like was done with the Airbus thing and we all saw what that got accomplished.)

Exactly what more would you like him to do that he hasn't done?

It still aint over either.

vox_rox

JTK - you make really good points. After re-reading my post, I realize that I came off as somewhat, um, acerbic, and maybe that was the wrong tact. I apologize for that.

It's true, Martin at least looked forward and said/did the right things, and that, I suppose, should be lauded. I still don't trust him, but there you go.

As far as running for office, I was invited to a nomination committee meeting for the Rhino party, but I never made it. I think if there was a strong Rhino prescence in Canada again, that there would at least be a strong avenue for protest votes other then spoiling ballots.

On the other side of the coin, I really wish that voters stopped voting for the people they think will win, or might win, and start voting for individuals who stand for something and who will represent them in the house. Could the Green Party be any worse then what we have? The NDP? People are all caught up in lack of history or fiscal policies from these parties, yet they vote for the Conservatives who are less then a decade old and whose fiscal and social policies are archaic, and the Lberals who have a long (twisted) history, and who make up fiscal policy on the fly and spend money like sailors on shore leave (see: Gomery Inquiry for details).

Really, why can't we just think outside the box and vote for change, vote to see what MIGHT happen if we weren't just a bunch of fucking sheep who feel perfectly at home getting ass-fucked by the two main political parties who have demonstrated repeatedly that public opinions, wishes and concerns mean less to them then the pork in their barrels and massive monetary compensation in their retirement funds.

I repeat - ANARCHY NOW!

Peace,

Pierre

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There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people.
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canuckguy

Btw could you not just punch jack layton in the face? I get the feeling that no matter what paul martin or the liberal party did that he would be against it. He does not want to help canadians, he just wants to be incharge, just like harper.

Why can't we with today's technology have a public vote on the issue at hand before all major decisions?
Like for example if we were going to change some aspect of health care. Who ever was in power would go on tv, give there proposed changes, then a rebutal or new proposal from the other polictical parties. Then we could vote via phone for the one that us canadians liked best. Should be like that for ALL major decisions. Works for all those shit singing shows, why not for this?

vox_rox

Actually, don't be so hard on Jack, Harper is twice as bad, and the Bloc leader du jour is like the Monty Python auto-arguement guy who just says the opposite of whatever anyone else says, even if it doesn't make sense. Really, it's not their fault, it the way the system was designed.

Any political system that is based on some adversarial level, as many of them are, tend to not allow cooperation and instead encourage disagreement. The idea is that, through prolonged debate, workable solutions can appear as legislation.

However, the fuckers that have been in power for the last 40 years have decided that prolonged debate really means disagreeing with everything, name-calling, insult shouting and various other juvenille activity that wastes everybody's time, costs us all a boatload of money, and makes our political system work somewhat like a car with no transimission - lots of energy use, lots of spinning, but no movement.

It really makes me sad that we have reached this level of performance - very, very sad. It's just pathetic.

Time for a new system.

Anarchy Now!

Peace,

Pierre

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There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people.
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Leto

OMG!!! what will happen to my RSPs????? The sky will fall!

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skier

As a sidenote, although liberals have done bad things, I think they did a hell of a job on the budget, especially with the plans for an aging populace. We're the only nation in the G7 to have a viable 75 year plan for supporting our retired persons.

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"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

tinfoil

Personally, I couldn't give a rats ass about the Gomery report, it's not like this is the first time that the Canuck gubment has wasted taxpayer money and it's certainly not going to be the last time. The only difference is that this time we found out about it.

My biggest complaint with the whole thing is the endless calls by the Conservatives, BQ and now NDP parties for a vote. Martin said their would be a vote 30 days after the final report and I certainly don't want to go vote without all of the facts. So, Mr. Harper, Layton and... er.. the BQ guy shut up and do the jobs you are being paid to do (run the country) and wait until Martin calls the election.

I didn't vote Liberal the last time (NDP) and I won't vote the next time, but I have to admit that they didn't ruin the country.

What I really need is for a KILL button on my phone for the next pollster who calls me and asks about my thoughts on Gomery. Please, we have more important things to worry about.

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Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

canuckguy

Just going through google news, reading the top story about harper and it still has me wondering. When was the last time a politician made a decision that the sole benefit was for the people and not just for his own party and there view. Harper now saying he won't go with the no confidence vote (which he had planned and was hoping for) as it might help layton. What the fuck about making a decision that helps the people and not just yourself.

We really need to change the way government operates. What a waste of money.

Yakk

Because educating yourself on a major decition requires hundreds, if not thousands, of man-hours.

Having everyone in the nation become fully educated on the nuances of every issue is not reasonable.

You can decline your ballot. This is different than spoiling your ballot.

I'm all for a Conservative-NDP minority government. No idea how it could happen.

There are interesting dynamics going on.

West-Quebec-East-Ontario.
NDP-Bloc-Liberal-Reform

Tasty.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

canuckguy

I won't pretend to know enough on the subject to be commenting on our canadian politics. I know enough to know that I don't know enough. If that makes sense.

But I just don't see why the for example when there was the scandal (usually one pops up monthly now) about over spending on meal allowances. Now I understand the tax payers have to flip the bill for when other countries come to visit or when some bozo has to travel abroad.
But if were talking a typical tuesday lunch. Effing brown bag it man! I should not have to pay for that lunch. And if you say well they do alot of business on those lunches, i then ask you could not have the same conversation at mcdonalds? or in your own office which we the tax papers already support.
Stuff like that burns my butt, we need to handle the government in a more practical sense than what we do now. The stories of 50$ hammers, and 100$ bottle of asprin have to stop.