trache

Walmart to Close Union-Targeted Store

I'm sure you've all heard of Walmart's shady business practices. The store in my city I heard had been talking about starting a union (I don't work for them, but I heard through the grapevine). Anyway, they are going to shut this store in Quebec down.

Wow, now thousands of people are out of their jobs just because they wanted to try and make a decent living.

It makes me sick.

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"You looked at me as if I was eating runny eggs in slow motion." - Gord Downie of The Tragically Hip

Antikarma

I know this will degenerate into a back and forth debate with merits to both sides. Corporations have a right to make money, Employees have a right to earn a proper living. So I'll just post along with what I feel, as opposed to what I truly think is right or wrong.

The more I hear of Walmart the more it disgusts me. Targetted locations to drive opposition out of business, bankrupting suppliers, forcing tertiary jobs offshore in order to feed suppliers at a lower cost. I hate Walmart, and to me it stands for what is WRONG about capitalism.

I used to work for a Walmart in my teens. Day one they gave me the lecture about the evil unions, and were one to be started at our location it would have to be closed as it would become too expensive. I was fired 3 weeks later because I went out on a date (off hours) with another employee (who I later married).

I know a company has a right to earn money, as much as they can. But I feel too much of a cost is being incurred for the profits of the shareholders of Walmart.

OK kids, flame me now. I'm a ready

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leaving your room, of which you know each bit;
your house is the last before the infinite,
whoever you are."

JJRousseau

I'm sorry for the affected employees but one less Walmart in the world is something to celebrate!

Antikarma, I look at it from a different angle - but no flames. I accept that a corporation's sole reason for being is return on capital and the more the better. But I believe that we (the customer/consumer) have the ability (some might say responsibility) to control their behaviour with our wallets. It sickens me to listen to my friends complain about Walmart as the are shopping there. I think Walmart is a socio-economic nightmare and I will not give them my business.

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Drewzy

This is just sending a message to other workers at other walmarts. Its a big company, one of the most richest in the world. Its sad because its all about pleasing stockholders and earnings. This stuff is what fuels revolutions. Bad move on Walmarts part.

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OFKU0

I support Walmart in this instance. They are providing jobs where there wouldn't be jobs in the first place, or as many. Nobody ever held a gun to the peoples heads who are employees forcing them to work at Walmart, and besides if they don't feel they make enough money, they can look for higher paying jobs if Walmart doesn't quite do it for them.

I have to wonder more about Quebec politics, especially language constraints that force all businesses in Quebec to adhere to strict language policies. In that sense, the union bit would be a great politically correct way to get out of Quebec rather the language issue and way less controversial.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Drewzy

Thats silly. Like a company would take into considerations these factors over making money. You didnt hear them complaining before they got unionized did you?

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leo_cote

I live in Saint-Hyacinthe Quebec where a union was started a few weeks ago in the local wallmart. They started to say they would move because they would not be has competitive...bullshit the salaries are not going to double!! the workers are only asking for a good wage (think its 8.50 or 9 an hour) and better job assurance.Seeing the number of cars in the parking lot on weekends,they can afford it. The''strict language policies'' as nothing to do with it, Wallmart just doesn't want unions to sprend in all of it stores.

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sherpahigh

From the very little that I know about this case (what I read about in the paper this morning) it appears that Walmart is in the right in this case.

My understanding is that the Union is essentially forcing Walmart to become unprofitable and close the store because of union demands. Here's some text that explains it a bit more from Walmarts perspective, taken from here: http://money.canoe.ca/News/Economy/2...925527-cp.html

There's also some good stuff on Walmart in general in this thread here: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...hlight=Walmart

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james t kirk

It is quite obvious that they closed this store to send a very clear signal to their other stores.

Unionize, and you are out of a job.

Simple.

El Kaz

A Quebec newspaper's paper headline could read, a few days ago, "RESISTANCE IS ORGANIZING".
There was a quote from Bernard Landry (ex-Prime Minister of Quebec) that he would be boycotting Wal-Mart, and he's encouraging everyone to do so.
Not that huge of a blow for sure, but I think Wal-Mart is gonna lose more profits these days than if they accepeted the union...

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splck

While I feel for the emloyees, I'm quite happy a Wal-Mart is closing.

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nice line eh?

slimpi66y

good work, unions driving up my cost of living, so they have no place in the new world

Charlatan

Your low cost of living is only achieved on the low wage backs of others... enjoy it while you can.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

james t kirk

So, you have faith in upper management to treat workers with fairness and respect eh.

Hmm, I have a bridge for sale in dowtown Toronto.

Don't ever kid yourself, if large corporations had their way, it would be right back to 1900 all over again.

trache

For those who haven't, I would suggest watching The Corporation, an in-depth look at what makes a business tick. It may open your eyes either way...

After all, unions have existed and will continue to exist until companies treat workers fairly. Many companies that do not have unions run quite smoothly. Why can't the rest?

__________________
"You looked at me as if I was eating runny eggs in slow motion." - Gord Downie of The Tragically Hip

JJRousseau

I don't get your reference. New world of what?

Charlatan, Walmart goes way beyond low wages. It is one of the most efficient systems of wealth reallocation the world has ever seen. And I don't say that as a good thing.

__________________
Take from the philosopher the pleasure of being heard and his desire for knowledge ceases.

OFKU0

Funny eh, one Walmart store closes because they say they can't profit from union demands and everyone goes apeshit. Who gives a fuck if those people lost their jobs, all 190 of them. What about the thousands of people who lose jobs everyday to worse workplace conditions in every aspect.

And funny also no one brings up the billions and billions of dollars the Walton family has and continues to donate in all their philanthropic endeavers. But who gives a fuck about that. Afterall they have the money to give away, right?

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

BigBen

"Evil Corporations"? Yeah, we would love to endenture your family.
Child Labour laws? We hate them.
Health Benefits? Canada has Publicly funded system. Don't need them.
Full-time benefits? No thanks, costs too much, we'll take 2 part-timers instead.

If you think that BIG BUSINESS would like to go back to the way things were in the 1900's, then you are just as brainwashed as the blue-vested managers leading the morning chant in the stock room. Only you have been caught by the union brainwashing machine, not the Walton meat grinder...

Promotion? I have seniority, you have to give it to me.
40 bucks a month in union dues? Sure, you guys are doing a great job. Keep it up.
That's not in my job description. I'm not doing that.
One day, when I grow up, I want to be a SHOP STEWARD!!!

I think that closing the Wal-Mart because it was not "profitable" is bullshit. How can you lose money on a WalMart store? Those things are liscences to print money. Union Busting, plain and simple.
What WalMart did not know, when they moved to Canada and bought Woolco was this: We are a liberal democracy. We like helping each other out. If we played by the same dog-eat-dog rules that made the U.S. what it is today, we would all have frozen to death back in the 1900's. We are union friendly, as a rule. Oops. Someone forgot to tell them that. They would not have come if they knew that. Simple.

FOR THE RECORD:
Yes, I am aware that I have argued both sides in this argument. I am proud of the fact that I can see the strengths and weaknesses of both sides of the argument.

Yes, I have worked in both Union and Non-Union jobs.
No, I have never owned my own business.
Yes, I am currently employed in a non-union environment.

BigBen

Oh, and remember, when they bought Woolco, the only ones they didn't buy were the unionized ones... Union busting again. Why didn't they buy the unionized ones? Not a profitable market.

One of those Woolco stores NOT BOUGHT was in my city, on my side of the city. WalMart instead put up its sign across town. It eventually moved into the abandoned Woolco on my side of town, but only a year later, once everyone but me had forgotten how they fucked the Mall owner and the unionized employees over.


Just FYI

OFKU0

The following below is in todays Ottawa Sun. I support this line of thought.

And for the record, I am self employed, have to pay all my expenses (extra health insurance, dentist etc) pay my bills and taxes upon taxes that I already pay. But it is my choice to do what I do. If and when I feel my company isn't profitable anymore, I will move on. And yes I have competition to deal with also, competition that is bigger than me but I'm not whining that they take dollars out of my pocket. It simply means I have to reinvent myself, do a better job and cater to people who value substance and quality rather than a substandard cheaper product.

And I have worked in a union environment which by my observations makes people complacent and resigned to the fact that they are guaranteed a wage and a job regardless as to whether they take pride in the job they do or fuck the dog all day because they can get away with it.

Maybe what Walmart should have done is raise their prices across the board to match union demands and then see less and less people come through their doors for other places. Then what? Have a unionized staff standing around in a store with no customers. But then we get into another realm of customer dissatifaction which when coupled with discount prices would have a more devestating effect than just closing one store.
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Biz right to boot unions

Let market forces - not organized labour - determine what Wal-Mart pays employees

By ANNE HOWLAND, Ottawa Sun

Do you shop at Wal-Mart because of your relationship with the qualified staff who are paid a premium wage to escort you through the aisles? Or do you shop at Wal-Mart because it sells decent stuff at great prices?

While employees who smile and point you in the right direction are nice, they're not the reason people go to Wal-Mart. No, people want decent products at low prices. And serving that need is how Wal-Mart became one of the most successful, dominant businesses in the world.

So, when Wal-Mart decides it cannot meet that basic market need -- the premise for its very existence -- and opts to close a store that is unprofitable, for whatever reason, that's its business. Wal-Mart does not need the headache or expense of dealing with a fractious union, with demands that could make it impractical for the company to keep locations open. So it pulls up stakes. It's called a capitalist economy.

After all, how is it that Wal-Mart can offer great prices? Because it's smart with technology, it's a master of supply chain management, and it is ruthless with suppliers on price and quality. That's the beauty of being top dog.

Wal-Mart also offers great prices because it pays low wages. One estimate places the average wage at $8.23 US per hour, for an annual income of $13,861 US. It's true as well that Wal-Mart has been accused of discriminating against minorities and women in hiring, wages and promotions, and cheating hourly workers of overtime pay.

It's unlikely Wal-Mart will up its wages significantly. It would be in its best business interests, though, to improve its relationships with employees. A happy employee is a productive employee. Plus, it has been suggested that Wal-Mart faces significant expenses -- more than $1 billion annually -- associated with labour turnover (estimated at 45% in 2002).

LOPPED LIMBS

So if Wal-Mart decides to amend its labour practices, there is an excellent business rationale for doing so. It does not need a union to force change upon it.

Unions had their day when limbs were being lopped off in factories, children were being forced into labour and overtime pay was but a fantasy. Today's union militants must have been dropped off by the stork with a contract in their nappy stating they are entitled to a job for life, with premium pay and top benefits.

It's something that must have fallen out mid-flight for the rest of us who live and die in the non-unionized world.

Wal-Mart is nobody's patsy. Look at Air Canada. Look at Stelco Inc. Look at Algoma Steel. History is rife with companies that have been almost hammered out of existence by their own unions.

Seems to me, if you don't like where you work or who you work for, quit.

anne.howland@ott.sunpub.com

http://www.ottawasun.com/

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Charlatan

Agreed... I was just dealing with the question at hand...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

JJRousseau

OKFU0, The article you quote makes many valid arguments but it must be considered that market forces do not control Walmart in the normal sense. Walmart controls market forces. Remember that Walmart's yearly revenues are only slightly less that Canada's. It is likely more efficient in operation than Canada, more globally integrated, more single-minded in purpose, and less constrained by a social conscience.

If Walmart gave a fuck about employee turn-over, it would have adjusted its wages. It doesn't. If Walmart could improve profitability by reducing employee turn-over, it would have adjusted its wages. It doesn't. It's simple mathematics coupled with the fact that Walmart can find a limitless supply of humanity willing to work for $8/hour.

__________________
Take from the philosopher the pleasure of being heard and his desire for knowledge ceases.

OFKU0

I agree. But let's do this also.

If those employees gave a fuck about Walmart, they wouldn't have quit over wages in the first place. Walmart is a huge company with many several avenues of opportunity to those who stick it out.

If employees of Walmart dedicated themselves to a career and educated themselves in order to secure better opportunities in the company, wages would be adjusted according, for those who put the effort in.

The fact that Walmart can attract people to work for $8.00 an hour is a miracle. It gives me faith that their are those who do take pride in what they do rather than miliking the system through welfare and what not.

But the simple fact is this. Walmart opened that store to give people an opportunity. They didn't have to do it. For those that tried to better themselves and worked hard, I feel for them. The lazy sloughts that think Walmart owes them something other than a paycheque, can starve for all I care. Unfortunately at the end of the day, everyone is equal.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

captanhero

Please. They opened the store to turn a profit. Wal-Mart and social responsibility are mutually exclusive, as evidenced by the scores of sole-proprietorships and regional department stores that have been driven out of business in the past 15+ years. No amount of philanthropy can make up for the dilution of local business communities which Wal-Mart is largely responsible for.

Also, it is not the responsibility of the employee to blindly fall in love with the company where they work. Is falls to the employer to create an environment deserving of loyalty. This is not Wal-Mart.

martinguerre

Yes, the miracle of pervasive working poverty. You think that's a good sign? That its corporate loyalty? I couldn't disagree more.

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-John 3:16

OFKU0

Listen, Walmart is not doing anything different than everyone else. What about movie theatres with 20 screens that wipe out the ones with 2 or 4 screens? What about Home Depot taking out small hardware stores? What about Loblaws that sells everything from bananas to lawn furniture to banking and investment services? Where's the outcry?

The reason the examples exist that I have stated is because there is a demand for it. Do I agree with all of it? No but that's life and the direction of change in a climate that warrants it.

Am I going to go to Home Depot and buy a can of paint for $25 over that of Home Hardware that sells that same can for $35? You bet. But likewise, am I going to buy apples at $1.69 a pound at Loblaws when Market Fresh sell the same apples at .79 cents a pound? Nope. It goes both ways.

And if you think for one minute that any employer has to prove their loyalty to anyone before those employees reciprocate, you are living in a dream world. I suspect this must have been the overwhelming sentiments of the folks who lost their jobs at Walmart. Like I said before, those who think their employer owes them more than a paycheque for work rendered should just quit. Maybe after they lose their car, house, savings,..etc to unemployment, they might realize that loyalty is the onus of the employee, not the other way around.

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.