JJRousseau

Maybe it's because I live on the left coast or maybe it's because I spend too much time hanging out with you commies (er, I mean, brothers of the glorious struggle) but I rather expected that Canadian public opinion favoured this issue, if only slightly. I was very surprised when the Post reported 65% of respondents were opposed to gay marriage. The poll noted that half of those against did support gay rights but not the redefinition of marriage...

Who are all these people?

Charlatan

Interesting that half support "gay rights" but are opposed to the redefinition of marriage... What does that mean exactly?

I just don't understand the intolerant.



I'm sure this is just me, but I find anything coming out of the National Post a bit suspect...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

vox_rox

Firstly, note that poll was done by, or commssioned by (it doesn't say which) by the National Post. On top of that, there is no mention of what metircs are being used, what level of confidence is built in to the poll, what demographic was surveyed, nothing. This is extremely suspect.

I mean, if I went into a nursing home and asked 100 vets if fags should invade their marriages, they'd all say Hell no! If I asked 100 university students if they supported a change in legislation to allow same-sex couples to enjoy the rights and freedoms of a long-term monogamous relationship recognized under the law, they'd all say Hell yes! So, What form(s) did the quesiton(s) take? Who was polled? when?

Polls mean NOTHING.

As for the "gay rights" and "definition of marriage" thing, well, that is the rallying cry for homophobes beacuse it makes them look less filled with hate (though they still are), more understanding of gay issues (which they don't and probably never will understand until their son tells them he's gay), and, most importantly, it's EASY TO REMEMBER!

Come on, "traditional definition of mariage?" What kind of an arguement is THAT?

Sorry for the rant, but I am losing patience with the stupidity and shallowness of the anti-gay marriage lobby, and I can't help myself.

Peace,

Pierre

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There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people.
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Ace_O_Spades

Everything, EVERYTHING, he just said was exactly what I was going to write, so I'll just state that fact so I don't need to type it all out.

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Feh.

Zephyr66

You and me both Ace

JJRousseau

I wonder what they think of the marriage of chocolate and peanut butter...

Sinful

Antikarma

Had I tried, I couldn't have said it better. Thank you for saving me half an hour at the keyboard red faced and angry, you summed my thoughts beautifully.

__________________

"Whoever you are, go out into the evening,
leaving your room, of which you know each bit;
your house is the last before the infinite,
whoever you are."

Merlocke

Ok - I'm all for gay rights, etc. They should be able to get married if they want to. They should be able to receive the benefits that a heterosexual couple receives from the government and work, etc.

As long as the churches aren't forced to do anything against their own beliefs - all is well in my book. If a religion's rules state that homosexuality is not proper - then so be it - they don't have to perform the ceremonies at that location. As to the different churches having divides - let them sort it all out.

The questions that I have left then - are what happens to the adopted children of gay marriages? Should they not be allowed to adopt and raise children? Will these children not be able to choose a specific religion and participate in specific religious groups just because their parents chose a different path? I think that's the main reason people are so up in arms about the whole issue. It's the gateway to countless other questions that can be raised.

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-=[ Merlocke ]=-

OFKU0

That's two of us.

It is interesting to me that such importance is placed on the word 'marriage.' Those who feel that it is disrespectful or threatening that gays use the word marriage is hypocritical to say the least. For those who feel their marriage will somehow be worthless if gays can use that word, ought look around at the 40+ % who dissolve their MARRIAGES through divorce or seperation. These people remarry. These people live in sin by co-habiting. Til death do you part. Yup until my next marriage. See how cheap marriage is?

Maybe now is the time to switch the traditional word "marriage" with 'union." Afterall, for 40+%, wasn't it a union already?

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

JustDisGuy

Marriage sacred? Six words: "Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire?"

Marriage is what you make it. Other people's marriages, regardless of the sex of the partners and their bedroom practices, will have no impact on mine. I'm Christian, and I believe it's important to love your neighbours without judging them, so long as they're not hurting anyone else.

If religious orders and their representatives are not being forced to acknowledge or perform ceremonies that are contrary to their dogma then I say bring it on.

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"Act as if the future of the universe depends on what you do, while laughing at yourself for thinking that your actions make any difference."

crxforum

They can do what they want. Just dont shove it in my face, want special recognition, or anything like that. Want to be treated equal then start acting equal.

Temporary_User

If we change the definition of marriage to accomodate gays, then why don't we change it so people can marry more then 1 person?
Why cant I marry my sister/brother?
A bit off but I think it makes sense.

side note: if gays want to marry let them. I actually live by the "gay" area of the city, and they don't botter me. I dislike the flamboyant (sp) ones, but that's judging by their personality not sex preference.

Antikarma

Mr Harper? Is that you? Wow, celebrity trolls.

__________________

"Whoever you are, go out into the evening,
leaving your room, of which you know each bit;
your house is the last before the infinite,
whoever you are."

vox_rox

This whole arguement is a Red Herring. In the first place, the only affect the legislation will have is on granting marriage licenses, which has nothing to do with religion. It is then up the couple to find the place and legal representative to perform the ceremony. This is traditionally done by some member of the clergy, or a notarized member of the public or, in rare circumstances, Captains of charter vessels.

There will be, and can be, no enforcement to perform marriages by any of these groups. Anyone who can legally marry someone who finds any union objectionable for any reason can refuse to perform that ceremony. That includes churches, justices of the peace, anyone. Any couple will be able to find someone to perform the marriage, rest assured.

As for the adopted children of same-sex marriages, they will have their own choices to make when they get old enough. There are very few churches on the planet that would refuse a convert based on the parents' choices. In fact, I can't think of any, and if anyone has any information on this, I would be happy to hear. In truth, this is the first time I've heard this arguement and it sounds a little reaching to me.

So this fear put forth by those who are arguing that they will be "forced" to perform gay marriages is just that - fear mongering.

Peace,

Pierre

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There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people.
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Charlatan

This really has nothing to do with the marriage issue.

Adoption is possible today, regardless of marriage... Hell, single people can and do adopt, regardless of their sexual preference.

As for the children choosing a religion... who is to say that they gays in question aren't religious. The United Church welcomes gays with open arms and has gay ministers. For that matter, my mother is a christian and I am an aethist...

These particular issues are not issues at all.


The only issue I see that falls into the "gateway to countless other questions" is really the issue of polygamy. The arguement that if we allow this, then this will follow is a typically conservative point of view. Too much change and I don't like it.

My answer to that is simple. They are two different issues and as such should be dealt with seperately.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

OFKU0

For some, that statement is so easy to understand and for others, to difficult to contemplate.

You know it's funny. For the 65% who oppose gay marriages, who exactly said it was any of their business anyway. Good grief, billions and billions of dollars of taxpayers money is flagrantly wasted by big government, and not a peep from those whose money it is. But when it comes to same sex couples, all of a sudden everyone opposed has the right to decide what enfolds.

Like someone said to me the other day. The word marriage shouldn't be used for gays because they(?)engage in anal sex. I replied that there are heterosexual married couples that engage in anal sex also. The response was that they didn't, only gays performed anal sex. See the mindset here? I have to wonder what other gems come from folks like that.

Really, this issue should be as complicated as deciding if one double doubles at Tim Horton's or not. The next decision should be of securing ways to get a life.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Charlatan

How old was this person...

You could also point out that many gays don't do anal sex at all. You might also point out that lesbian don't make a practice of it either.

Ultimately what a couple does in the bedroom is besides the point.

There are many hetero couples who don't even have sex anymore... Should we take away their Marriage License?

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

OFKU0

Actually, the comment came from someone in their 60's but two others were in agreement also, about mid 50's.

Agreed with your comments but given the level of misunderstanding of the others, I politely declined from beating a dead horse. If they don't get it, they won't with my help. Besides more important things were at stake, like drinking beer.

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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

vox_rox

Brilliant! This is a very important aspect of the whole debate, stated so very well. We have now, and have since at least Mulroney, a federal government that spends tremendous amounts of money on gawd-knows-what, without even an impartial ethics post to deal with it, no acountability whatsoever, and nobody says a thing. Then someone says same-sex couples should be allowed to be "married" and you can't hear the shouts above the clamour.

I wish the feds would just bring in the legislation, make sure that there is no free vote and that the PQs and NDPs are on baord, and get this thing passed. Then maybe they can start doing the important stuff, like insulting each other during question period and syphoning tax money to pay for $750,000 condos in Ottawa to stay in.

Sometimes anarchy doesn't seem so bad, does it? Just a thought. Oh yeah, and OFKU0 - pass me a beer will ya?

Peace,

Pierre

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There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people.
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Yakk

The adopted children of any marriage are usually raised in the faith of the parents.

I, personally, have little objection to polygamy -- however, this is technically more difficult.

Have you asked him or her? I'm sure he or she is willing to give you a tonne of reasons why they don't want to marry you.

Hey, stop pidgeon-holing lesbians about which hole they do or do not use! Some lesbians do do penetration...

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Charlatan

I know that but a 60 year old who believes that straight people don't have anal sex doesn't... Besides, I was careful in my wording... I didn't say they never have penetration. I said, they don't make a practice of having anal sex... a slight but important difference.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Yakk

I was equally careful in my wording, if to a different end. Read the whole sentance with an open mind.

;-)

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Charlatan

Sorry... that was quite clever...


you said do do

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

R-Dubb604

personally i dont support gay marriage in canada let alone anywhere, its just not right

Charlatan

Care to expand on that?

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Drewzy

I dont really care, its not my battle, but I hate that the issue is splitting societies apart. So yeah I wish gays would just shut up about it.

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All life begins from a single orgasm.

Antikarma

Wow, the trolls are out in force. You know what, I'm gonna bite my tongue and let someone eloquent refute the two previous posters, cuz it'll turn into a flame war if not :/

__________________

"Whoever you are, go out into the evening,
leaving your room, of which you know each bit;
your house is the last before the infinite,
whoever you are."

metalgeek

I do find it funny however, that there are many people (on this board, and people I know) who rail and rail against the west/christians/whoever about this whole gay marriage thing, that there in the minority, etc. and when a poll comes out, (and polls usually are representitive enough) they immediatly yell that the poll doesn't count, etc.
bah ahh well...
And for the record, I am for gay marriage, against making it illegal for churches to not allow it.

Charlatan

I don't discount this poll entirely, but I do find anything that the Post publishes a bit suspect.

That said, I don't think it matters if a majority of the people are against this... That's what the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is for... to protect minorities from the majority.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke